Ed Hurst wrote:
> Beege wrote:
>
>> Was wondering.
>> In some forums, people abhor top posting, in others, its bottom posting.
>> Other than posting and getting flamed, how is one to know?
>
> Here's your hint ;-)
>

E-mail to people with whom you do business, and relatives who are not
techies, should begin at the top of the page -- at least with a note
that matters are responded to in the body of the note after the relevant
passages.

Beege wrote:

> Was wondering.
> In some forums, people abhor top posting, in others, its bottom posting.
> Other than posting and getting flamed, how is one to know?

Here's your hint ;-)

--
Ed Hurst
------------
Return addy is bogus; used by permission.
Try br073n at the standard gmail service.

On Fri, 9 Nov 2007, Beege wrote:-

>Was wondering.
>In some forums, people abhor top posting, in others, its bottom
>posting. Other than posting and getting flamed, how is one to know?

Before the Eternal September[0] started, the general rule was to lurk in
whichever group you were interested in, getting a feel for how things
were done. Unfortunately, AOL opened up access to Usenet and Eternal
September started. While some say it's now over, what with AOL dropping
Usenet access a couple of years ago, others say they just passed the
torch on to Google Groups.

So, the best way to find out is to lurk first, ask questions later. This
covers not just this group but others as well.

The second best is to read RFC 1855[1], especially section 3, and apply
the knowledge contained within.

The third way would be to trim out what you aren't responding to, and
respond to each point one after the other, otherwise known as posting
inline. The end results, if you're responding to more than one point,
would be for your reply to end up similar to this:

>point one

your response to point one

>point two

your response to point two

something extra you want to add


Most groups prefer that way of posting. You'll find a few that prefer
other ways, but there's not many of them.

You will also find that you're more likely to get answers to questions
if you post like this. Quite apart from the fact that it makes it easier
for others to read your posts, it also goes some way towards ensuring
you don't get ignored by those who could help because your making it
easier for them.


[0]

[1]

Regards,
David Bolt

--
www.davjam.org/lifetype/ www.distributed.net: OGR@100Mnodes, RC5-72@15Mkeys
| SUSE 10.1 32bit | openSUSE 10.2 32bit | openSUSE 10.3 32bit
SUSE 10.0 64bit | SUSE 10.1 64bit | openSUSE 10.2 64bit |
RISC OS 3.11 | RISC OS 3.6 | TOS 4.02 | openSUSE 10.3 PPC

David Bolt wrote:
> On Fri, 9 Nov 2007, Beege wrote:-
>
>> Was wondering.
>> In some forums, people abhor top posting, in others, its bottom
>> posting. Other than posting and getting flamed, how is one to know?
>
> Before the Eternal September[0]....

Thanks David, Dennis and Ed.

I will try to bottom post whenever unsure, and try to discover otherwise
by lurking in the other groups I frequent.

Beege

Beege wrote:
>Was wondering.
>In some forums, people abhor top posting, in others, its bottom posting.
>Other than posting and getting flamed, how is one to know?

The internet "standard", such as it is, is bottom posting.

--
--- Paul J. Gans

On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 04:55:34 +0000 (UTC), Paul J Gans
wrote:

>Beege wrote:
>>Was wondering.
>>In some forums, people abhor top posting, in others, its bottom posting.
>>Other than posting and getting flamed, how is one to know?
>
>The internet "standard", such as it is, is bottom posting.


Not true. The "Internet" has plenty of web based forums where this is
not the case.

The proper response is:

"The Usenet standard is bottom posting, in most groups."

Once the poster realizes that there is a difference between Usenet
groups, and online Internet (read web) based chat/bulletin forums, he'll
be better off.

On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 21:43:32 -0800, ChairmanOfTheBored wrote:

> On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 04:55:34 +0000 (UTC), Paul J Gans
> wrote:
>
>>Beege wrote:
>>>Was wondering.
>>>In some forums, people abhor top posting, in others, its bottom posting.
>>>Other than posting and getting flamed, how is one to know?
>>
>>The internet "standard", such as it is, is bottom posting.
>
>
> Not true. The "Internet" has plenty of web based forums where this is
> not the case.
>
> The proper response is:
>
> "The Usenet standard is bottom posting, in most groups."

ITYM "interleaved posting".

Bottom posting usually means quoting all 50,000 lines of someone's
webserver logs and saying "me too".

On 10 Nov 2007 08:51:53 +0100, Mark South
wrote:

>On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 21:43:32 -0800, ChairmanOfTheBored wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 04:55:34 +0000 (UTC), Paul J Gans
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Beege wrote:
>>>>Was wondering.
>>>>In some forums, people abhor top posting, in others, its bottom posting.
>>>>Other than posting and getting flamed, how is one to know?
>>>
>>>The internet "standard", such as it is, is bottom posting.
>>
>>
>> Not true. The "Internet" has plenty of web based forums where this is
>> not the case.
>>
>> The proper response is:
>>
>> "The Usenet standard is bottom posting, in most groups."
>
>ITYM "interleaved posting".
>
>Bottom posting usually means quoting all 50,000 lines of someone's
>webserver logs and saying "me too".


Bottom posting is fine for most threads and short message replies.
Interleaved is the best all around, because it has responses near the
text they relate to.

Paul J Gans wrote:
> Beege wrote:
>>Was wondering.
>>In some forums, people abhor top posting, in others, its bottom posting.
>>Other than posting and getting flamed, how is one to know?
>
> The internet "standard", such as it is, is bottom posting.

To be 100% correct, the correct way is inline posting. ;-)

houghi
--
You can have my keyboard ...
if you can pry it from my dead, cold, stiff fingers

Mark South wrote:
> ITYM "interleaved posting".

Yep, or any other name you want to give it.

> Bottom posting usually means quoting all 50,000 lines of someone's
> webserver logs and saying "me too".

Then you are doing it wrong.
EN http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
DE http://learn.to/quote/
NL http://www.briachons.org/art/quote/

houghi
--
You can have my keyboard ...
if you can pry it from my dead, cold, stiff fingers

David Bolt wrote:
> Before the Eternal September[0] started, the general rule was to lurk in
> whichever group you were interested in, getting a feel for how things
> were done.


Before I even started using the Internet, I read up on it and thus knew
beforehand that I should lurk. I knew what flaming was and how to avoid
it

Then there was no problem with how people posted, because everybody had
a plaintext newsreader and the deafult was to add things at the end by
default.

I once asked by sister, who had no ideas about any rules, no ideas about
computers and just used it to print menus and very occasional email what
she thought would be better., topposting or bottomposting.

She looked at me as to why I would ask such a silly question with such
an obvious answer. I pressed her to tell me and why. It went along with
the lines of why bottomposting is the better choice.

houghi
--
You can have my keyboard ...
if you can pry it from my dead, cold, stiff fingers

Dennis J. Tuchler wrote:
> E-mail to people with whom you do business, and relatives who are not
> techies, should begin at the top of the page -- at least with a note
> that matters are responded to in the body of the note after the relevant
> passages.

Yes, and I hate it. It is terrible. I work at a company that not only
has HTML as a standard in posting. It also is unpossible to turn off the
deafault (First thing I try) and next to that they have a HUGE stoopid
disclaimer that is worth jack****¹.

The worst is when you get into a emaildiscusion that is going on for a
while.

What I do when I get a list of questions, I start with: "I have answerd
in between"

Then do the normal answers. Outlook even puts your name there, so that
the next person will get his name there as well.

Then at the end I give an explanation and remove everything else.

I have recieved several mails along the lines of : Thanks for posting it
so clearly by answering next to the question.

So yes, I use the note, but more so to teach them that this is a way to
do it as well as it is a way to warn them.

¹Disclaimer says something about the standard "if the mail is not for
you, delete it" but then 20 lines long.
The reason it is not valid is for several reasons. Firstly I live in
Belgium, so the ext should be in the 3 native languages, not in English.
Secondly, the server is in the UK, so Belgian law does not apply.
Thirdly, if I recieve the email, I was the person it was send to. As if
you would write my adress on a postcard, write down extra information
that nobody should know and then add that if it isn't for my eyes, I
should not read it.
If you want your data secure ypu should do it, not me. Learn to use gpg
(by default for all I care)
At least from monday on, our department will have a LAMP website. :-D

houghi
--
You can have my keyboard ...
if you can pry it from my dead, cold, stiff fingers

Easy

One ignores any complaint you receive!

The idea to keep in mind with text communication is to effectively
communicate using whatever technique works for you personally. That
includes editing the original post, forming a conversation
(interleaving) or anything else that works!

If someone is offended by your technique style and they post it to the
group, they themselves are now a bigger problem. How does that saying
go? "get use to it!"

Remember too that any published etiquette/link is only someones opinion.

There are of course arguments for and against what style to use. It also
depends on how your newsreader displays. (like top posting is a great
idea if your the person that reads it starts from the top of the page
you sent, but already knows what the conversation is about from the
subject line) If you read posts on many subjects you can argue that
quoting above (bottom post) is useful but if you only ready a few it
isn't so important.

I think personally that inadequate subject lines and full quoted top
postings are more of a problem.. Keep in mind though that this is my
opinion and you should form your own ideas.!

Cheers Bob

Beege wrote:
> In some forums, people abhor top posting, in others, its bottom posting.

> Beege wrote:
>> In some forums, people abhor top posting, in others, its bottom posting.

Both are incorrect. You should be responding within the body of the reply.

Bob Bob wrote:



houghi
--
You can have my keyboard ...
if you can pry it from my dead, cold, stiff fingers

On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 15:04:37 -0500, Beege wrote:

> Was wondering.
> In some forums, people abhor top posting, in others, its bottom posting.
> Other than posting and getting flamed, how is one to know?
>
> Beege

Read some threads?

ChairmanOfTheBored wrote:
>On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 04:55:34 +0000 (UTC), Paul J Gans
>wrote:

>>Beege wrote:
>>>Was wondering.
>>>In some forums, people abhor top posting, in others, its bottom posting.
>>>Other than posting and getting flamed, how is one to know?
>>
>>The internet "standard", such as it is, is bottom posting.


> Not true. The "Internet" has plenty of web based forums where this is
>not the case.

> The proper response is:

>"The Usenet standard is bottom posting, in most groups."

> Once the poster realizes that there is a difference between Usenet
>groups, and online Internet (read web) based chat/bulletin forums, he'll
>be better off.

I stand by what I wrote. There is an RFC, whose number I have
forgotten, laying out what was expected.

One could google for it.

--
--- Paul J. Gans

Mark South wrote:

>Bottom posting usually means quoting all 50,000 lines of someone's
>webserver logs and saying "me too".

Why do you say that?

--
--- Paul J. Gans

On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 17:57:22 +0000, Paul J Gans wrote:

> Mark South wrote:
>
>>Bottom posting usually means quoting all 50,000 lines of someone's
>>webserver logs and saying "me too".
>
> Why do you say that?

Well, it's admittedly hyperbolic, but not far from what often happens in
here.