Missing window title bars in openSUSE 10.3 - Suse

This is a discussion on Missing window title bars in openSUSE 10.3 - Suse ; I have developed a problem on my Toshiba laptop running openSUSE 10.3. All the windows are missing their title bars (the coloured bit at the top that has the program name and the maximise, minimise and close buttons). This has ...

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  1. Missing window title bars in openSUSE 10.3

    I have developed a problem on my Toshiba laptop running openSUSE 10.3. All
    the windows are missing their title bars (the coloured bit at the top that
    has the program name and the maximise, minimise and close buttons). This has
    happened for all usres on the machine, irrespective of whether they login
    using Gnome or KDE, and I am at a loss how to solve the problem.

    Any advice would be appreciated.

    ROB






  2. Re: Missing window title bars in openSUSE 10.3

    On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:26:13 +0100, Robert Flint wrote:

    > I have developed a problem on my Toshiba laptop running openSUSE 10.3.
    > All the windows are missing their title bars (the coloured bit at the
    > top that has the program name and the maximise, minimise and close
    > buttons). This has happened for all usres on the machine, irrespective
    > of whether they login using Gnome or KDE, and I am at a loss how to
    > solve the problem.
    >
    > Any advice would be appreciated.
    >
    > ROB


    Probably the easiest way is to back up your /home onto separate media and
    reinstall making sure to format your /home and when up and running
    replace what you want from your backed up files.



    --
    Neil
    reverse ra and delete l

  3. Re: Missing window title bars in openSUSE 10.3

    Robert Flint wrote:

    > I have developed a problem on my Toshiba laptop running openSUSE 10.3. All
    > the windows are missing their title bars (the coloured bit at the top that
    > has the program name and the maximise, minimise and close buttons). This has
    > happened for all usres on the machine, irrespective of whether they login
    > using Gnome or KDE, and I am at a loss how to solve the problem.
    >
    > Any advice would be appreciated.


    Sounds like you're missing a window manager (which is what provides these
    things).

    Try opening a terminal window (from GNOME) and entering the command:

    $ metacity &

    and see what happens.


  4. Re: Missing window title bars in openSUSE 10.3

    On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:26:13 +0100, Robert Flint wrote:

    > I have developed a problem on my Toshiba laptop running openSUSE 10.3. All
    > the windows are missing their title bars (the coloured bit at the top that
    > has the program name and the maximise, minimise and close buttons). This has
    > happened for all usres on the machine, irrespective of whether they login
    > using Gnome or KDE, and I am at a loss how to solve the problem.


    Are you running compiz fusion? That has a bug that matches the behaviour
    you describe.

  5. Re: Missing window title bars in openSUSE 10.3

    In message <47207F33.8040005@bullet3.fsnet.oc.ku>, Robert Newson
    writes
    >Robert Flint wrote:
    >
    >> I have developed a problem on my Toshiba laptop running openSUSE
    >>10.3. All the windows are missing their title bars (the coloured bit
    >>at the top that has the program name and the maximise, minimise and
    >>close buttons). This has happened for all usres on the machine,
    >>irrespective of whether they login using Gnome or KDE, and I am at a
    >>loss how to solve the problem.
    >> Any advice would be appreciated.

    >
    >Sounds like you're missing a window manager (which is what provides
    >these things).
    >
    >Try opening a terminal window (from GNOME) and entering the command:
    >
    >$ metacity &
    >

    I'm no Linux expert and, on 10.02, haven' had that problem - but reading
    UK MicroMart this week there is a comment made about what seems to be
    exactly the same problem with one recent distro of Ubuntu. I know they
    come from different bases but is there a core change that is causing
    this somewhere.

    I repeat - I'm a clueless beginner - only a reader of magazines to try
    to learn.
    --
    Duncan K
    Downtown Dalgety Bay

  6. Re: Missing window title bars in openSUSE 10.3

    Duncan Kennedy wrote:

    > In message <47207F33.8040005@bullet3.fsnet.oc.ku>, Robert Newson
    > writes
    >
    >> Robert Flint wrote:
    >>
    >>> I have developed a problem on my Toshiba laptop running openSUSE
    >>> 10.3. All the windows are missing their title bars (the coloured bit
    >>> at the top that has the program name and the maximise, minimise and
    >>> close buttons). This has happened for all usres on the machine,
    >>> irrespective of whether they login using Gnome or KDE, and I am at a
    >>> loss how to solve the problem.
    >>> Any advice would be appreciated.

    >>
    >> Sounds like you're missing a window manager (which is what provides
    >> these things).
    >>
    >> Try opening a terminal window (from GNOME) and entering the command:
    >>
    >> $ metacity &
    >>

    > I'm no Linux expert and, on 10.02, haven' had that problem - but reading
    > UK MicroMart this week there is a comment made about what seems to be
    > exactly the same problem with one recent distro of Ubuntu. I know they
    > come from different bases but is there a core change that is causing
    > this somewhere.


    On Linux, the desktop manager (Gnome, KDE) is separate from the Window
    Manager (Metacity, IceWM, etc) - you can pick and choose whichever window
    manager you like to go with your desktop of choice (KDE comes with an
    integral Window Manager[1], Gnome does not), unlike with Microsoft Windwos
    where you have the choice of MS Windwos or MS Windwos.

    [1] Preferring Gnome, I haven't used KDE much so can't really comment on this.

    I've recently installed a new version of Linux on another machine as a test
    to see if I like it before rolling it out on my main machines. I've had
    headches trying to get the windows to do what I like on my main machine -
    the new verison of the window manager provides the feature I like (A desktop
    bigger than my screen with 4 windows onto that), but has crap "furniture"
    (the max, min, etc buttons), or I can have the "furniture" I like with
    another window manager, but that only has multiple desktops the size of my
    window. In playing around, I ran through times when I had totally diabled
    all window managers - in that case, there was no window "furniture" at all.

    I have used SUSE 10.1 - it claims to use Gnome as its desktop, but it is
    still very much KDE based (so you tend to get the worst of both worlds) -
    and I can "create" the missing "furniture" on that machine by disabling the
    Window Manager.

    The question we forgot to ask:

    What had he been doing when the windows lost their "furniture"?


  7. Re: Missing window title bars in openSUSE 10.3

    Robert Flint wrote:
    > I have developed a problem on my Toshiba laptop running openSUSE 10.3. All
    > the windows are missing their title bars (the coloured bit at the top that
    > has the program name and the maximise, minimise and close buttons). This has
    > happened for all usres on the machine, irrespective of whether they login
    > using Gnome or KDE, and I am at a loss how to solve the problem.
    >
    > Any advice would be appreciated.
    >
    > ROB
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >

    That's what I get when I enable xgl. I had to go back to xorg to get my
    bars back.

  8. Re: Missing window title bars in openSUSE 10.3

    In message <472090AD.8020107@bullet3.fsnet.oc.ku>, Robert Newson
    writes
    >Duncan Kennedy wrote:
    >
    >> In message <47207F33.8040005@bullet3.fsnet.oc.ku>, Robert Newson
    >> writes
    >>
    >>> Robert Flint wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> I have developed a problem on my Toshiba laptop running openSUSE
    >>>>10.3. All the windows are missing their title bars (the coloured
    >>>>bit at the top that has the program name and the maximise,
    >>>>minimise and close buttons). This has happened for all usres on
    >>>>the machine, irrespective of whether they login using Gnome or
    >>>>KDE, and I am at a loss how to solve the problem.
    >>>> Any advice would be appreciated.
    >>>
    >>> Sounds like you're missing a window manager (which is what provides
    >>>these things).
    >>>
    >>> Try opening a terminal window (from GNOME) and entering the command:
    >>>
    >>> $ metacity &
    >>>

    >> I'm no Linux expert and, on 10.02, haven' had that problem - but
    >>reading UK MicroMart this week there is a comment made about what
    >>seems to be exactly the same problem with one recent distro of Ubuntu.
    >>I know they come from different bases but is there a core change that
    >>is causing this somewhere.

    >
    >On Linux, the desktop manager (Gnome, KDE) is separate from the Window
    >Manager (Metacity, IceWM, etc) - you can pick and choose whichever
    >window manager you like to go with your desktop of choice (KDE comes
    >with an integral Window Manager[1], Gnome does not), unlike with
    >Microsoft Windwos where you have the choice of MS Windwos or MS Windwos.
    >

    Thanks for the explanation. I have a lot to learn. Come to think of
    it, it was Kubuntu latest beta the magazine was trying (not testing).
    (Gibbon) and when it happened they were running KDE / Compiz - which
    ties in with another report in this thread. The solution, for Gibbon,
    seemed to be to run Emerald Theme Manager - and there I get completely
    lost!
    --
    Duncan K
    Downtown Dalgety Bay

  9. Re: Missing window title bars in openSUSE 10.3


    "Broderick Crawford" wrote in message
    news:47209843$0$9613$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
    > Robert Flint wrote:
    >> I have developed a problem on my Toshiba laptop running openSUSE 10.3.
    >> All
    >> the windows are missing their title bars (the coloured bit at the top
    >> that
    >> has the program name and the maximise, minimise and close buttons). This
    >> has
    >> happened for all usres on the machine, irrespective of whether they login
    >> using Gnome or KDE, and I am at a loss how to solve the problem.
    >>
    >> Any advice would be appreciated.
    >>
    >> ROB
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>

    > That's what I get when I enable xgl. I had to go back to xorg to get my
    > bars back.


    Thanks, yes it was compiz causing the problem. Uninstalled it and the title
    bars are back.

    ROB




  10. Re: Missing window title bars in openSUSE 10.3

    In article <472090AD.8020107@bullet3.fsnet.oc.ku>,
    Robert Newson wrote:

    > On Linux, the desktop manager (Gnome, KDE) is separate from the Window
    > Manager (Metacity, IceWM, etc) - you can pick and choose whichever window


    Perhaps replace "is separate" with "can be separate"? I'm using
    WindowMaker which performs both functions, as do twm, fvwm, etc.

    Separating the window manager from the desktop is normal unix
    philosophy -- split a larger problem into smaller, standalone programs
    which do one job, and do it well.

    --
    Paul Martin

  11. Re: Missing window title bars in openSUSE 10.3

    Paul Martin wrote:
    > In article <472090AD.8020107@bullet3.fsnet.oc.ku>,
    > Robert Newson wrote:
    >
    >> On Linux, the desktop manager (Gnome, KDE) is separate from the Window
    >> Manager (Metacity, IceWM, etc) - you can pick and choose whichever window

    >
    > Perhaps replace "is separate" with "can be separate"?


    Not really. Gnome and KDE are Desktop Environments (or managers) which
    are built upon specific window managers. You can use others with Gnome
    or KDE, but don't expect it to work very well.

    > I'm using
    > WindowMaker which performs both functions, as do twm, fvwm, etc.


    I'm no UI specialist, but AFAIK Window Managers are distinct entities
    from Desktop Environments, which can be run on their own without the
    added overhead of a full-blown environment. However, a DE must be run
    with a WM otherwise you face the problems highlighted by the OP.


  12. Re: Missing window title bars in openSUSE 10.3

    In article ,
    Chris wrote:
    > Paul Martin wrote:
    >> In article <472090AD.8020107@bullet3.fsnet.oc.ku>,
    >> Robert Newson wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Linux, the desktop manager (Gnome, KDE) is separate from the Window
    >>> Manager (Metacity, IceWM, etc) - you can pick and choose whichever window

    >>
    >> Perhaps replace "is separate" with "can be separate"?


    > Not really. Gnome and KDE are Desktop Environments (or managers) which
    > are built upon specific window managers. You can use others with Gnome
    > or KDE, but don't expect it to work very well.


    What part of "can be separate" do you not understand? They can be
    separate, or the two functions can be integrated in one program.

    I also don't say that you can do without both functions, only that the
    functions can be provided in one program or split between many
    programs.

    --
    Paul Martin

  13. Re: Missing window title bars in openSUSE 10.3

    Paul Martin wrote:
    > In article ,
    > Chris wrote:
    >> Paul Martin wrote:
    >>> In article <472090AD.8020107@bullet3.fsnet.oc.ku>,
    >>> Robert Newson wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> On Linux, the desktop manager (Gnome, KDE) is separate from the Window
    >>>> Manager (Metacity, IceWM, etc) - you can pick and choose whichever window
    >>> Perhaps replace "is separate" with "can be separate"?

    >
    >> Not really. Gnome and KDE are Desktop Environments (or managers) which
    >> are built upon specific window managers. You can use others with Gnome
    >> or KDE, but don't expect it to work very well.

    >
    > What part of "can be separate" do you not understand? They can be
    > separate, or the two functions can be integrated in one program.


    I understood you perfectly. You however...

    To clarify. Gnome and KDE (and other Desktop Environments) *are*
    separate/distinct from Window Managers. There's no 'can be' about it.
    The very fact that Gnome and KDE both require a WM to work properly
    shows that they are /separate/ from a WM.

    I'm not making any point about what a WM can or can't do, just that your
    'correction' was wrong.

    > I also don't say that you can do without both functions, only that the
    > functions can be provided in one program or split between many
    > programs.
    >


    I've no idea what you mean by 'functions'.

  14. Re: Missing window title bars in openSUSE 10.3

    In article ,
    Chris wrote:
    > Paul Martin wrote:


    >> I also don't say that you can do without both functions, only that the
    >> functions can be provided in one program or split between many
    >> programs.


    > I've no idea what you mean by 'functions'.


    Functions of "desktop manager" and "window manager". It's only fairly
    recently (with Gnome and KDE) that the two roles have been separated.

    Historically, what we called "window managers" filled both roles.

    --
    Paul Martin

  15. Re: Missing window title bars in openSUSE 10.3

    On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 16:14:26 +0000, Paul Martin wrote:

    > In article ,
    > Chris wrote:
    >> Paul Martin wrote:

    >
    >>> I also don't say that you can do without both functions, only that the
    >>> functions can be provided in one program or split between many
    >>> programs.

    >
    >> I've no idea what you mean by 'functions'.

    >
    > Functions of "desktop manager" and "window manager". It's only fairly
    > recently (with Gnome and KDE) that the two roles have been separated.
    >
    > Historically, what we called "window managers" filled both roles.


    Well, really there is a spectrum rather than a binary division. Rox can
    act as a desktop manager for several window managers, for example (I
    happen to like rox with fvwm-crystal and slim as login manager) while KDE
    and Gnome are full-blown desktop environments, with all kinds of system
    integration going on (networking, printing, etc etc).

    The only general rule is that the more it can do, the longer it takes to
    do it and the longer it takes to download and install....

  16. Re: Missing window title bars in openSUSE 10.3

    On 25 Oct 2007, Chris spake thusly:
    > Not really. Gnome and KDE are Desktop Environments (or managers) which
    > are built upon specific window managers. You can use others with Gnome
    > or KDE, but don't expect it to work very well.


    Um, wrong. Any window manager supporting the EWMH specification will
    work perfectly well with GNOME or KDE (in KDE the entire set of negative
    effects is that one panel in the control center becomes useless: it's
    the one for configuring kwin, which, duh, you're not running.)

    I'm using fvwm 2.5.21 with KDE 3.5.7 here and it works flawlessly.

    --
    `Some people don't think performance issues are "real bugs", and I think
    such people shouldn't be allowed to program.' --- Linus Torvalds

  17. Re: Missing window title bars in openSUSE 10.3

    Nix wrote:
    > On 25 Oct 2007, Chris spake thusly:
    >> Not really. Gnome and KDE are Desktop Environments (or managers) which
    >> are built upon specific window managers. You can use others with Gnome
    >> or KDE, but don't expect it to work very well.

    >
    > Um, wrong. Any window manager supporting the EWMH specification will
    > work perfectly well with GNOME or KDE (in KDE the entire set of negative
    > effects is that one panel in the control center becomes useless: it's
    > the one for configuring kwin, which, duh, you're not running.)


    Ah, OK. That's good to know.

    > I'm using fvwm 2.5.21 with KDE 3.5.7 here and it works flawlessly.


    Out of interest, what are the advantages of using fvwm over kwin?

  18. Re: Missing window title bars in openSUSE 10.3

    Le Thu, 25 Oct 2007 14:46:16 +0100, Robert Flint a √©crit¬*:

    > "Broderick Crawford" wrote in message
    > news:47209843$0$9613$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
    >> Robert Flint wrote:
    >>> I have developed a problem on my Toshiba laptop running openSUSE 10.3.
    >>> All
    >>> the windows are missing their title bars (the coloured bit at the top
    >>> that
    >>> has the program name and the maximise, minimise and close buttons).
    >>> This has
    >>> happened for all usres on the machine, irrespective of whether they
    >>> login using Gnome or KDE, and I am at a loss how to solve the problem.
    >>>
    >>> Any advice would be appreciated.
    >>>
    >>> ROB
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>

    >> That's what I get when I enable xgl. I had to go back to xorg to get my
    >> bars back.

    >
    > Thanks, yes it was compiz causing the problem. Uninstalled it and the
    > title bars are back.
    >
    > ROB


    You can install fusion-icon (with Yast). It's an icon in the taskbar that
    allows you to change and reload the windows manager, to configure
    Emerald's themes and Compiz settings, etc. It's an easy way to test
    Compiz.

    SW

  19. Re: Missing window title bars in openSUSE 10.3

    In Chris:

    [Snip...]

    > Out of interest, what are the advantages of using fvwm over kwin?


    I use twm myself (SuSE 10.0), and AFAIK it seems not to need all the silly
    eye-candy bloat immediately available. It sees a *much* smaller WM is used
    and just swaps out all the hogware. If it doesn't need it, why chew up any
    RAM with it?

    That's not to say bloat like KDE/Gnome/etc. doesn't have a place. But it's
    very nice for folks like me running limited resources to have options.

    Like anything else: Linux beats the Evil Empire to hell and back in having
    choice about your property/time, discounting anything else involved.

    --
    Regards, Weird (Harold Stevens) * IMPORTANT EMAIL INFO FOLLOWS *
    Pardon any bogus email addresses (wookie) in place for spambots.
    Really, it's (wyrd) at airmail, dotted with net. DO NOT SPAM IT.
    Kids jumping ship? Looking to hire an old-school type? Email me.

  20. Re: Missing window title bars in openSUSE 10.3

    On 26 Oct 2007, Chris said:

    > Nix wrote:
    >> I'm using fvwm 2.5.21 with KDE 3.5.7 here and it works flawlessly.

    >
    > Out of interest, what are the advantages of using fvwm over kwin?


    Principally that my twenty-years-evolving fvwm configuration works with
    it I'm not sure kwin *can* be made to work the way I like, including
    keybindings for absolutely everything including moving windows around
    and a proper fvwm-style viewport (separated virtual desktops are the
    work of the devil).

    (wow. Did I *really* start working on that config when I was eleven?
    .... no, from the date, I was ten. Good grief. How time flies... God only
    knows what machine that was running on, it must have been on some
    machine my mum brought home from work, but when did she ever bring home
    a Unix box? I'll have to ask, this is a deep mystery.)

    --
    `Some people don't think performance issues are "real bugs", and I think
    such people shouldn't be allowed to program.' --- Linus Torvalds

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