10.2 partitioning. Sucks! - Suse

This is a discussion on 10.2 partitioning. Sucks! - Suse ; On Sat, 28 Jul 2007, houghi wrote:- >David Bolt wrote: >>>I remember having the discusion several times before and it was always >>>concluded that this is the best of the 'no win' situations. >> >> At the time the discussions ...

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Thread: 10.2 partitioning. Sucks!

  1. Re: 10.2 partitioning. Sucks!

    On Sat, 28 Jul 2007, houghi wrote:-

    >David Bolt wrote:
    >>>I remember having the discusion several times before and it was always
    >>>concluded that this is the best of the 'no win' situations.

    >>
    >> At the time the discussions occurred, it probably was. It might be an
    >> idea to revisit it again during the 10.3 cycle.

    >
    >Yeah, like they did for the 120.0, 10.1 and 10.2. Perhaps you see a
    >pattern here. ;-)


    Sounds awfully familiar.

    >Sure it is great to duscuss things, but perhaps this
    >one should start with:
    >When I have several distributions what happens is X, what I wouild like
    >to happen is Y. Distribution ABC has Y happening. This is a better
    >option, because ...


    That would certainly be a better idea than this:

    >Till now the disussions where: When a partition is overwritten, it
    >should get a larger warning. No it should not, yes it should, no it
    >should not. Ad nauseum.


    I think I'll just add a feature request to re-size existing partitions
    rather than delete them. That way the Yes! No! Yes! No! discussion about
    more warnings are (sort-of) avoided. Looks like I'll be having an
    install-fest all on my own as I have a look at what other some other
    distros do. That way I can say distro-x does this, or none of the
    distros I've tried do it and "openSUSE can be the first to take other
    Linux OSes into account :-)"

    >
    >> In the case of my experiment, it'd probably fail to pick a suitable
    >> proposal since the virtual drive is only 10GB, contains a 520MB swap, a
    >> 200MG /home, and five / partitions of about 1.9GB each.

    >
    >I have never had a suitable proposal. I doubt that it is possible to
    >bring out a distribution that can do that.


    Probably not, no.

    >Also because _I_ do not even
    >have a fixed way of doing it. Or how do you program the correct one each
    >and avery time:


    The partitioner looks at the partitions and knows what's in them, how
    else would it know that it had to add the FC5 and (open)SUSE 10.0-10.2
    installs to the boot menu.

    >1) Delete all exiasting partitions and make one large one
    >2) Use HDA for installation, without seperate partitions. Delete what is
    >on there.
    >3) Delete HDB and use the whole
    >4) Use part of HDE and mount HDF partly as home
    >5) Use HDA as seperate / and /home


    6, if other versions of (open)SUSE are present, offer to perform an
    upgrade install even if "new installation" was selected. Or maybe offer
    to perform a fresh install using the fstab of a pre-existing install.

    >>>You never
    >>>can win, because some people will still want to have it differently. The
    >>>way it is now is the best compromise.

    >>
    >> It was. It probably still is, but it might be an idea to look again and
    >> see if it's possible to re-size an already exiting Linux partition
    >> rather than just wiping them out.

    >
    >Sure, but be clear to have an alternative before you start a discusion
    >for the sake of starting a discusion.


    As I said, if the system has Windows on it, the installer will offer to
    re-size the Windows partitions. I think it might be fair to say that the
    same "courtesy" should be given to existing Linux installs.

    >>>If some people do not like it,
    >>>that is a real pity, but it is too timeconsuming to please everybody.

    >>
    >> Not to mention impossible to do.

    >
    >Well, I have heard about this women who did a realy good efford. Oh
    >wait, I am awake again.


    You too :-/

    >> Thinking about that, it's about time I had another go with 10.3 and
    >> rembrand/makeSUSEdvd. I'm wondering if it's possible to get the Packman
    >> and Guru repositories added as installation sources right at the
    >> beginning of the installation, rather than after the initial
    >> installation is complete.

    >
    >Sure it is. Just select them as installed instead of optional.


    Just trying without using rembrand. I'll have a look and see what
    happens, and if I can drag in stuff from Packman while picking packages.


  2. Re: 10.2 partitioning. Sucks!

    s. keeling wrote:
    > The installer can take screenshots? Huh. I didn't see anything like
    > that (but then I wasn't looking for it either). Worst case, he has a
    > digital camera, so I guess we could do it that way.


    http://www.suse.de/~sh/yast2/screen-shots/
    Basicaly you press the print screen button and save it on wherever you
    want.

    houghi
    --
    Microsoft says, "Where do you want to go today?"
    Apple says, "Where do you want to go tomorrow?"
    FOSS says, "Are you coming, or what?"

  3. Re: 10.2 partitioning. Sucks!

    David Bolt wrote:
    > The partitioner looks at the partitions and knows what's in them, how
    > else would it know that it had to add the FC5 and (open)SUSE 10.0-10.2
    > installs to the boot menu.


    By looking at the old Grub in mbr. It sounds clever, but what it actualy
    does is just copy the grub data. If that is wrong, everything else is
    wrong.

    >>1) Delete all exiasting partitions and make one large one
    >>2) Use HDA for installation, without seperate partitions. Delete what is
    >>on there.
    >>3) Delete HDB and use the whole
    >>4) Use part of HDE and mount HDF partly as home
    >>5) Use HDA as seperate / and /home

    >
    > 6, if other versions of (open)SUSE are present, offer to perform an
    > upgrade install even if "new installation" was selected. Or maybe offer
    > to perform a fresh install using the fstab of a pre-existing install.


    Nope, never have done that. The first 5 is all that _I_ use. Many other
    installation options will be used by different people, but there is not
    enough space and time to post them all here, so that is the reason
    there is an 'expert' mode.

    That is the reason that if you have a new idea, you should be having
    good reasons and examples to go ahead. Adding extra options is not
    always the best way to go.

    houghi
    --
    Microsoft says, "Where do you want to go today?"
    Apple says, "Where do you want to go tomorrow?"
    FOSS says, "Are you coming, or what?"

  4. Re: 10.2 partitioning. Sucks!

    s. keeling :
    > David Bolt :
    > > On Fri, 27 Jul 2007, s. keeling wrote:-
    > > >
    > > >Even with
    > > >"Expert" mode, it:
    > > >
    > > > - does not list the existing swap partition, which the installer
    > > > just activated and is using!

    > >
    > > And you've reported this "bug" to Novell? You can do so via:
    > >
    > >

    >
    > Thanks, will do.


    No, I won't. That requires me to create a Novell account. I've no
    need of one. Debian's reportbug doesn't need that. Novell shouldn't
    either. Fsck 'em. You do it, if you want.


    --
    Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
    (*) http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html Linux Counter #80292
    - - http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html Please, don't Cc: me.

  5. Re: 10.2 partitioning. Sucks!

    David Bolt :
    >
    > As I said, if the system has Windows on it, the installer will offer to
    > re-size the Windows partitions. I think it might be fair to say that the
    > same "courtesy" should be given to existing Linux installs.


    That's what I was missing. In the absense of that, it's Suse acting
    the same Way that Microsoft acts toward FLOSS. We should not tolerate
    that sort of behaviour! Hell, I won't tolerate it. Either it plays
    nice with the other kids, or it doesn't go on the box. It's its'
    choice. Does it want a place on the box or not? Clobbering the
    others is not an allowable option here.

    As I've mentioned, 10.1 had no trouble with this, and its grub mostly
    did it right (and, arguably, much better than others
    *buntu) did. 10.2's installer appeared psychotic in this
    way, at least to me.

    Perhaps psychotic is the wrong word, but compared to other installs
    I've done over the years, it's close enough for my purposes.


    --
    Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
    (*) http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html Linux Counter #80292
    - - http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html Please, don't Cc: me.

  6. Re: 10.2 partitioning. Sucks!

    houghi schreef:
    > s. keeling wrote:
    >> The installer can take screenshots? Huh. I didn't see anything like
    >> that (but then I wasn't looking for it either). Worst case, he has a
    >> digital camera, so I guess we could do it that way.

    >
    > http://www.suse.de/~sh/yast2/screen-shots/
    > Basicaly you press the print screen button and save it on wherever you
    > want.
    >
    > houghi


    They wrote a whole page about how to make a screenshots and you just
    just tell him how to do the same in one sentence. LOL.

  7. Re: 10.2 partitioning. Sucks!

    houghi :
    > s. keeling wrote:
    > > The installer can take screenshots? Huh. I didn't see anything like
    > > that (but then I wasn't looking for it either). Worst case, he has a
    > > digital camera, so I guess we could do it that way.

    >
    > http://www.suse.de/~sh/yast2/screen-shots/
    > Basicaly you press the print screen button and save it on wherever you
    > want.


    Useful information. :-) Thanks.


    --
    Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
    (*) http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html Linux Counter #80292
    - - http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html Please, don't Cc: me.

  8. Re: 10.2 partitioning. Sucks!

    s. keeling schreef:
    > David Bolt :
    >> On Fri, 27 Jul 2007, Rajko M. wrote:-
    >>
    >>> David Bolt wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> With this, /dev/hda would become /dev/sda, etc.
    >>> The /etc/fstab and /boot/grub/device.map on target partition must be
    >>> adjusted

    >
    > Sigh. Yet another new name for /boot/grub/menu.list?!? Mumble,
    > grumble, ...
    >

    device.map is not the same as menu.list. device.map is only a list of
    your hard disk while menu.list is a list of your OS and their location
    on the disk. You suppose to know that stuff.
    >>> Partition numbers are not same in both cases.

    >> You've actually seen the partition numbers change? As in /dev/hda5 on
    >> 10.2, or earlier, becomes something other than /dev/sda5 on 10.3? The

    >
    > I've already seen the change from /dev/hdaN to /dev/sdaN in Zenwalk.
    > The "N" does not change. It remains the same ptn number. Only the
    > "h" changes to "s".
    >
    > And yes, the "kernel" line in /boot/grub/$WHATEVER_WE'RE_CALLING_IT_TODAY
    > must be changed to match fstab ("root=/dev/sdaN").
    >
    >


  9. Re: 10.2 partitioning. Sucks!

    s. keeling wrote:

    > Rajko M. :
    >> s. keeling wrote:
    >>
    >> > On this box, we have Xubuntu, Suse 10.1, Kanotix, Win95, and Zenwalk
    >> > (all of which I built it for him). 10.2 wants to do psychotic stuff
    >> > in partitoning, as in re-allocating detected filesystems. Even with
    >> > "Expert" mode, it:
    >> >
    >> > - does not list the existing swap partition, which the installer
    >> > just activated and is using!

    >>
    >> If you managed SUSE Linux 10.1 than openSUSE 10.2 should be a cake walk.
    >> The Expert Partitioning:
    >> - will list swap and all other partitions,

    >
    > It does not. It doesn't list the swap ptn the installer was already
    > using!
    >
    >> - will obey limits that you set

    >
    > It did not.


    You can believe that here some of installations on hard disk already filled
    with other OSes are at least exotic. You can install quite a few *nixies on
    160 GB and at the time there was FreeBSD, Gentoo, Slackware, Debian and
    whatnot.

    Expert partitioning tool have habit to remember status and one has to reset
    it in order to start over. I can recall when I first stumbled over that
    trying to change partitioning proposal, as it would be easier and selecting
    option to base new proposal on old one, and started to chase my tail trough
    menus, never getting all partitions listed, and ever since I go straight
    to Expert Partitioning.

    I your case it can be bug, but some guys on opensuse@opensuse.org mailing
    list have quite a few installations on their test computers and they never
    complained on something like this, so chance that you found something is
    not that big, but to set descent test case to find out what was wrong you
    would need help of guys that created installation system, so bugzilla or
    mail list.

    To subscribe: opensuse+subscribe@opensuse.org
    and answer on confirmation email by list server.

    To get out: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org
    and answer on confirmation email by list server.

    --
    Regards,
    Rajko.

  10. Re: 10.2 partitioning. Sucks!

    Canned :
    > s. keeling schreef:
    > > David Bolt :
    > >> On Fri, 27 Jul 2007, Rajko M. wrote:-
    > >>> David Bolt wrote:
    > >>>> With this, /dev/hda would become /dev/sda, etc.
    > >>> The /etc/fstab and /boot/grub/device.map on target partition must be

    > >
    > > Sigh. Yet another new name for /boot/grub/menu.list?!? Mumble,
    > > grumble, ...

    >
    > device.map is not the same as menu.list. device.map is only a list of
    > your hard disk while menu.list is a list of your OS and their location


    Ah, thanks. I've never needed to deal with that one.

    (0) heretic /home/keeling_ cat /boot/grub/device.map
    (hd0) /dev/hda
    (hd1) /dev/hdc

    Woohoo. :-P

    > on the disk. You suppose to know that stuff.


    Pardon?


    --
    Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
    (*) http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html Linux Counter #80292
    - - http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html Please, don't Cc: me.

  11. Re: 10.2 partitioning. Sucks!

    Canned :
    > houghi schreef:
    > > s. keeling wrote:
    > >> The installer can take screenshots? Huh. I didn't see anything like
    > >> that (but then I wasn't looking for it either). Worst case, he has a
    > >> digital camera, so I guess we could do it that way.

    > >
    > > http://www.suse.de/~sh/yast2/screen-shots/
    > > Basicaly you press the print screen button and save it on wherever you

    >
    > They wrote a whole page about how to make a screenshots and you just
    > just tell him how to do the same in one sentence. LOL.


    Welcome to the 21st Century. This is the way it's done these days.

    Pretty funny. :-)


    --
    Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
    (*) http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html Linux Counter #80292
    - - http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html Please, don't Cc: me.

  12. Re: 10.2 partitioning. Sucks!

    s. keeling schreef:
    > Canned :
    >> s. keeling schreef:
    >>> David Bolt :
    >>>> On Fri, 27 Jul 2007, Rajko M. wrote:-
    >>>>> David Bolt wrote:
    >>>>>> With this, /dev/hda would become /dev/sda, etc.
    >>>>> The /etc/fstab and /boot/grub/device.map on target partition must be
    >>> Sigh. Yet another new name for /boot/grub/menu.list?!? Mumble,
    >>> grumble, ...

    >> device.map is not the same as menu.list. device.map is only a list of
    >> your hard disk while menu.list is a list of your OS and their location

    >
    > Ah, thanks. I've never needed to deal with that one.
    >
    > (0) heretic /home/keeling_ cat /boot/grub/device.map
    > (hd0) /dev/hda
    > (hd1) /dev/hdc
    >
    > Woohoo. :-P
    >

    Does it work??
    >> on the disk. You suppose to know that stuff.

    >
    > Pardon?
    >
    >


    Reading your previous posts, I assume you have pretty good experience
    with linux and especially with grub, so I guess you should at least know
    the difference between those files.

  13. Re: 10.2 partitioning. Sucks!

    Canned wrote:
    >> http://www.suse.de/~sh/yast2/screen-shots/
    >> Basicaly you press the print screen button and save it on wherever you
    >> want.
    >>
    >> houghi

    >
    > They wrote a whole page about how to make a screenshots and you just
    > just tell him how to do the same in one sentence. LOL.


    Yes. There is no LOL there. This is very normal practice. Once you wrote
    something yourself, you will understand this.

    And there is no 'They' that wrote it. It is a personal page from an
    individual.

    If you would look at the page, you would see that it basicaly explains
    it how to do this if you were a newbie. Or do you think that everybody
    is aware on day one how to go to terminal mode, that /tmp is in RAM and
    will be gone after the reboot or any of the other things.

    And the better page is on
    http://en.opensuse.org/Making_Installation_screenshots The reason this
    is the better page is because it will be maintained by the public, so if
    you have any issues whith what is written, you can edit it yourself.


    houghi
    --
    Microsoft says, "Where do you want to go today?"
    Apple says, "Where do you want to go tomorrow?"
    FOSS says, "Are you coming, or what?"

  14. Re: 10.2 partitioning. Sucks!

    s. keeling wrote:
    > No, I won't. That requires me to create a Novell account.


    So?

    > I've no need of one. Debian's reportbug doesn't need that. Novell
    > shouldn't either.


    Perhaps this comes as a surprise, but Novell is not Debian. The reason
    the ask for your email (and name) is so they can get back to you in case
    of questions to try something out. Also ofthen they will need additional
    information.

    This does not mean that one is bad and the other is good. It just means
    that they have a different opinion on how to do things. Differences are
    good, remember?

    > Fsck 'em. You do it, if you want.


    Why the rude wording (yes, you ARE saying "**** them")?

    Nobody has the issue that you are having. Imagine that I would file the
    bug. They then ask me to do XYZ and I must then say: well, actually I
    heard the bug from somebody who said '**** Novell'.

    Howm many seconds do you think they will spend on that bug after that?

    You are bringing nothing to this. The only productive things I have seen
    from you is namecalling and how bad it all is and how good others are.

    So please grow up and behave at least as if you were using Linux for a
    long time.

    houghi
    --
    Microsoft says, "Where do you want to go today?"
    Apple says, "Where do you want to go tomorrow?"
    FOSS says, "Are you coming, or what?"
    s. keeling says, "**** them!"

  15. Re: 10.2 partitioning. Sucks!

    houghi schreef:
    > Canned wrote:
    >>> http://www.suse.de/~sh/yast2/screen-shots/
    >>> Basicaly you press the print screen button and save it on wherever you
    >>> want.
    >>>
    >>> houghi

    >> They wrote a whole page about how to make a screenshots and you just
    >> just tell him how to do the same in one sentence. LOL.

    >
    > Yes. There is no LOL there. This is very normal practice. Once you wrote
    > something yourself, you will understand this.
    >

    Yes I know but it still kinda funny from my point of view. I'm not
    saying that the guide is useless.

    > And there is no 'They' that wrote it. It is a personal page from an
    > individual.
    >

    I just saw suse.de not the ~sh part.

    > If you would look at the page, you would see that it basicaly explains
    > it how to do this if you were a newbie. Or do you think that everybody
    > is aware on day one how to go to terminal mode, that /tmp is in RAM and
    > will be gone after the reboot or any of the other things.
    >

    No, but I assume that almost every user are familiar with print screen
    button.

    > And the better page is on
    > http://en.opensuse.org/Making_Installation_screenshots The reason this
    > is the better page is because it will be maintained by the public, so if
    > you have any issues whith what is written, you can edit it yourself.
    >
    >
    > houghi


    I'll leave the editing to someone else. I'm not a very good writer.

  16. Re: 10.2 partitioning. Sucks!

    houghi wrote:

    > s. keeling wrote:
    >> No, I won't. *That requires me to create a Novell account.

    >
    > So?
    >
    >> I've no need of one. *Debian's reportbug doesn't need that. *Novell
    >> shouldn't either.

    >
    > Perhaps this comes as a surprise, but Novell is not Debian.
    >
    > The reason
    > the ask for your email (and name) is so they can get back to you in case
    > of questions to try something out. Also ofthen they will need additional
    > information.
    >
    > This does not mean that one is bad and *the other is good. It just means
    > that they have a different opinion on how to do things. Differences are
    > good, remember?


    The difference between Novell and Debian is not only matter of opinion, it
    is the difference between profit and non-profit organization.

    The bugzilla.novell.com is not created only for opensource like Debian.

    Novell, as commercial entity selling services, has to solve customer
    problems in timely manner, so they need setup where they can contact you by
    any-mail, telephone or any other mean that you will provide. If they find
    that the problem can affect their customers they will attempt to solve it.

    Debian, as non-profit organization, has no customers and, if somebody can
    solve the problem, it will be solved, if not, they can let it hang on
    bugzilla forever without hurting anybody's bottom line.

    --
    Regards,
    Rajko.

  17. Re: 10.2 partitioning. Sucks!

    Canned wrote:

    > houghi schreef:

    .....
    >> If you would look at the page, you would see that it basicaly explains
    >> it how to do this if you were a newbie. Or do you think that everybody
    >> is aware on day one how to go to terminal mode, that /tmp is in RAM and
    >> will be gone after the reboot or any of the other things.
    >>

    > No, but I assume that almost every user are familiar with print screen
    > button.


    Term "every user" includes a lot that never touch the top row of keyboard,
    or better to say function key row ;-) as nowadays the top row on most
    computers are "multimedia" buttons.

    What PrtScrn does is not always the same. In KDE it is easy, it will start
    screen capture program. In other environments or operating system it can
    do nothing, or it doesn't show any sign that anything happend.

    >> And the better page is on
    >> http://en.opensuse.org/Making_Installation_screenshots The reason this
    >> is the better page is because it will be maintained by the public, so if
    >> you have any issues whith what is written, you can edit it yourself.

    >
    > I'll leave the editing to someone else. I'm not a very good writer.


    Editing doesn't always mean writing skills.

    You can see typo in command line that makes it useless.
    Login, correct the error, logout.
    This makes you editor.

    For instance:
    http://en.opensuse.org/Update_Mirrors
    there is a line:
    sudo smart mirror --add > filename
    which will not work for sure, even if
    smart mirror --add
    is correct the redirection ">" is wrong. There is nothing that smart want to
    write to file, but just opposite. It should be
    sudo smart mirror --add < filename

    This advice seems to be a call for trouble.
    Many repositories that need refresh like "update" will make smart sluggish
    as it has to download a lot of repository descriptions that are the same
    most of the time.

    Article title is Update_Mirrors and it should handle only that.
    How to add repositories doesn't belong there, and it is described in many
    other articles. I guess that this will be the next edit ;-)

    BTW: Having Smart installed doesn't mean that it is used to install software
    or update system.


    --
    Regards,
    Rajko.

  18. Re: 10.2 partitioning. Sucks!

    Rajko M. wrote:
    > The difference between Novell and Debian is not only matter of opinion, it
    > is the difference between profit and non-profit organization.


    Having a registration, so you can get back to te person who posted the
    bug is not that bad and has, in my opinion, nothing to do with profit or
    non-profit, but all with bug management.

    Well, that is what I think anyway.

    houghi
    --
    Microsoft says, "Where do you want to go today?"
    Apple says, "Where do you want to go tomorrow?"
    FOSS says, "Are you coming, or what?"

  19. Re: 10.2 partitioning. Sucks!

    Canned :
    > s. keeling schreef:
    > >
    > > Ah, thanks. I've never needed to deal with that one.
    > >
    > > (0) heretic /home/keeling_ cat /boot/grub/device.map
    > > (hd0) /dev/hda
    > > (hd1) /dev/hdc
    > >
    > > Woohoo. :-P

    >
    > Does it work??


    I don't understand the question. /boot/grub/device.map appears to be
    a two line long flat text file which says the above. What's the
    significance of this file to me?

    > >> on the disk. You suppose to know that stuff.

    > >
    > > Pardon?

    >
    > Reading your previous posts, I assume you have pretty good
    > experience with linux and especially with grub, so I guess you
    > should at least know the difference between those files.


    In all my years with Linux, device.map has never come up as anything
    worthy of my attention. Perhaps it is, but until now, it never has
    been.


    --
    Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
    (*) http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html Linux Counter #80292
    - - http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html Please, don't Cc: me.

  20. Re: 10.2 partitioning. Sucks!

    houghi :
    > s. keeling wrote:
    > > No, I won't. That requires me to create a Novell account.

    >
    > So?


    That's answered in the next line.

    > > I've no need of one. Debian's reportbug doesn't need that. Novell
    > > shouldn't either.

    >
    > Perhaps this comes as a surprise, but Novell is not Debian.


    Why is it that your default mode of conversation is to talk down to
    whoever you're talking to? Where do you think, "Fsck you houghi!"
    comes from?!? You treat me like sh*t, guess what you get back in
    return!

    > The reason they ask for your email (and name) is so they can get
    > back to you in case of questions to try something out. Also ofthen
    > they will need additional information.


    Yet, as an anonymous user of Debian, I can just "reportbug" all I
    want. Why does Suse insist I create an account instead? Perhaps it's
    corporate marketroid stuff which doesn't concern me, and which I'd
    prefer to avoid?

    > > Fsck 'em. You do it, if you want.

    >
    > Why the rude wording (yes, you ARE saying "**** them")?


    Damned right I am. :-)

    > Nobody has the issue that you are having. Imagine that I would file the
    > bug. They then ask me to do XYZ and I must then say: well, actually I
    > heard the bug from somebody who said '**** Novell'.


    ?!? reportbug knows my email address. If the maintainer needs more
    info, s/he knows where to go to get it. email me.

    > So please grow up and behave at least as if you were using Linux for a
    > long time.


    Fsck off. :-)


    --
    Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
    (*) http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html Linux Counter #80292
    - - http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html Please, don't Cc: me.

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