10.2 partitioning. Sucks! - Suse

This is a discussion on 10.2 partitioning. Sucks! - Suse ; Rajko M. : > s. keeling wrote: > > > On this box, we have Xubuntu, Suse 10.1, Kanotix, Win95, and Zenwalk > > (all of which I built it for him). 10.2 wants to do psychotic stuff > > ...

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Thread: 10.2 partitioning. Sucks!

  1. Re: 10.2 partitioning. Sucks!

    Rajko M. :
    > s. keeling wrote:
    >
    > > On this box, we have Xubuntu, Suse 10.1, Kanotix, Win95, and Zenwalk
    > > (all of which I built it for him). 10.2 wants to do psychotic stuff
    > > in partitoning, as in re-allocating detected filesystems. Even with
    > > "Expert" mode, it:
    > >
    > > - does not list the existing swap partition, which the installer
    > > just activated and is using!

    >
    > If you managed SUSE Linux 10.1 than openSUSE 10.2 should be a cake walk.
    > The Expert Partitioning:
    > - will list swap and all other partitions,


    It does not. It doesn't list the swap ptn the installer was already
    using!

    > - will obey limits that you set


    It did not.


    --
    Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
    (*) Linux Counter #80292
    - - http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html Please, don't Cc: me.

  2. Re: 10.2 partitioning. Sucks!

    Hans-Peter Diettrich :
    > Rajko M. wrote:
    >
    > > If you managed SUSE Linux 10.1 than openSUSE 10.2 should be a cake walk.
    > > The Expert Partitioning:
    > > - will list swap and all other partitions,
    > > - will obey limits that you set
    > > so I don't know what you call expert mode. There are 2 other choices based
    > > on YaST proposal, that are not expert mode.

    >
    > I also had problems with the partitioning. It looked to me as if the
    > swap partition must be "formatted" somehow, before SuSE can use it. At


    Our swap ptn was already "formatted". It's the same swap ptn used by
    the other two Linuxes on the box, and it was the swap ptn the
    installer was using at the time. However, it was never mentioned in
    the list of existing ptns, despite the fact that the installer was
    already using it.


    --
    Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
    (*) Linux Counter #80292
    - - http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html Please, don't Cc: me.

  3. Re: 10.2 partitioning. Sucks!

    houghi :
    > s. keeling wrote:
    > > I expect "expert" means *expert*, as in, "here's what you have to work
    > > with. *Don't* you dare touch any of the others, damnit!"

    >
    > Well, to me the EXPERT should be the person using it. That means it
    > should say 'This is something I have figured out, but hey, YOU are the
    > _expert_, figure it out yourself.


    Yes, it did exactly that. Then I clicked on the "Change" -->
    "Partitioning" button at the bottom, told it what I actually wanted it
    to do, and time and time again it came back telling me it was going to
    use one of my other ptns for /home, /usr, ... despite my having told
    it not to!

    > Obviously you do not understand the concept of a 'proposal'.


    Don't presume to know what I understand. I've been banging on this
    stuff since '93. When did you finally hear about it?


    --
    Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
    (*) Linux Counter #80292
    - - http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html Please, don't Cc: me.

  4. Re: 10.2 partitioning. Sucks!

    tyggy :
    >
    > there is a Distro just for partitioning called GParted
    >
    > I have used this and it is good


    I've used it too, and it's not bad. It wasn't necessary here since
    the partitions already existed. We were attempting to replace 10.1
    with 10.2 using the same ptn 10.1 used.

    SystemRescueCD is good too. It comes with the venerable old "fdisk"
    which is controllable (unlike Suse 10.2's partitioner).


    --
    Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
    (*) Linux Counter #80292
    - - http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html Please, don't Cc: me.

  5. Re: 10.2 partitioning. Sucks!

    David Bolt :
    > On Fri, 27 Jul 2007, David Bolt wrote:-
    >
    > I forgot to mention something about these step:
    >
    > >1, select the new installation;
    > >2, choose the desktop type (KDE, Gnome, minimal graphical, or text);
    > >3, click partitioning either using the "link" at the top of the page, or
    > > using the pop-up menu on the "change" button;
    > >4, click the radio-button "Create Custom Partition Setup" and the next
    > > button;
    > >5, click the radio-button "Custom Partitioning (for experts)" and then
    > > the next button;
    > >6, click the "Expert" button and the select
    > > "Import Mount Points from Existing /etc/fstab" option;
    > >7, click on the "Show Next" button until the correct / partition for
    > > 10.1 is found and then click the "Yes" button;

    >
    > These steps can be used for almost any version of (open)SUSE upto and
    > including 10.2.


    Thanks David. If my user's still willing, we'll try them out.

    It does look a bit convoluted/tortured compared to many other installs
    I've done. "Upgrade" then "Format" the target ptn does not
    "upgrade" anything. It replaces.


    --
    Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
    (*) Linux Counter #80292
    - - http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html Please, don't Cc: me.

  6. Re: 10.2 partitioning. Sucks!

    David Bolt :
    > On Fri, 27 Jul 2007, Rajko M. wrote:-
    >
    > >David Bolt wrote:
    > >
    > >> With this, /dev/hda would become /dev/sda, etc.

    > >
    > >The /etc/fstab and /boot/grub/device.map on target partition must be
    > >adjusted


    Sigh. Yet another new name for /boot/grub/menu.list?!? Mumble,
    grumble, ...

    > >Partition numbers are not same in both cases.

    >
    > You've actually seen the partition numbers change? As in /dev/hda5 on
    > 10.2, or earlier, becomes something other than /dev/sda5 on 10.3? The


    I've already seen the change from /dev/hdaN to /dev/sdaN in Zenwalk.
    The "N" does not change. It remains the same ptn number. Only the
    "h" changes to "s".

    And yes, the "kernel" line in /boot/grub/$WHATEVER_WE'RE_CALLING_IT_TODAY
    must be changed to match fstab ("root=/dev/sdaN").


    --
    Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
    (*) Linux Counter #80292
    - - http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html Please, don't Cc: me.

  7. Re: 10.2 partitioning. Sucks!

    houghi :
    > David Bolt wrote:
    > >
    > > [0] Apart from the annoying feature that it will, if allowed, wipe out
    > > already installed Linux OSes[1], and Linux partitions, if there is no

    >
    > If allowed? That would giving responsability to the user. Clearly the OP
    > could not handle that.


    Fsck off, houghi. You add nothing of any value to any of this.


    --
    Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
    (*) Linux Counter #80292
    - - http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html Please, don't Cc: me.

  8. Re: 10.2 partitioning. Sucks!

    s. keeling wrote:
    > Yes, it did exactly that. Then I clicked on the "Change" -->
    > "Partitioning" button at the bottom, told it what I actually wanted it
    > to do, and time and time again it came back telling me it was going to
    > use one of my other ptns for /home, /usr, ... despite my having told
    > it not to!


    That is AWESOME. 10.2 is out for about a year now, including several
    stages of alpha and betatesting and you are the first to exprience this.
    WOW, amazing.

    So the fact that you are the only one who has this problem means
    obviously that the 10.2 partitioning sucks. I agree completely with you.
    As you had this issue, it s clear that we all must run away from
    openSUSE right away.

    houghi
    --
    Remind me to write an article on the compulsive reading of news. The
    theme will be that most neuroses can be traced to the unhealthy habit
    of wallowing in the troubles of five billion strangers. -- Heinlein

  9. Re: 10.2 partitioning. Sucks!

    s. keeling wrote:
    > Our swap ptn was already "formatted". It's the same swap ptn used by
    > the other two Linuxes on the box, and it was the swap ptn the
    > installer was using at the time. However, it was never mentioned in
    > the list of existing ptns, despite the fact that the installer was
    > already using it.


    You can take screenshots. Please do and tell us what you were doing. The
    screenshots I took are on http://houghi.org/shots/KDE/ I can change
    anything and everything in each of those partitions and it will be
    saved. I have NEVER EVER heard of somebody not being able to do so.

    houghi
    --
    Remind me to write an article on the compulsive reading of news. The
    theme will be that most neuroses can be traced to the unhealthy habit
    of wallowing in the troubles of five billion strangers. -- Heinlein

  10. Re: 10.2 partitioning. Sucks!

    s. keeling wrote:
    > Sigh. Yet another new name for /boot/grub/menu.list?!? Mumble,
    > grumble, ...


    All that I ever changed was /boot/grub/menu.list and nothing else.

    >> >Partition numbers are not same in both cases.

    >>
    >> You've actually seen the partition numbers change? As in /dev/hda5 on
    >> 10.2, or earlier, becomes something other than /dev/sda5 on 10.3? The

    >
    > I've already seen the change from /dev/hdaN to /dev/sdaN in Zenwalk.
    > The "N" does not change. It remains the same ptn number. Only the
    > "h" changes to "s".


    That is happening in 10.3. Not sure wether I am happy about that.


    houghi
    --
    Remind me to write an article on the compulsive reading of news. The
    theme will be that most neuroses can be traced to the unhealthy habit
    of wallowing in the troubles of five billion strangers. -- Heinlein

  11. Re: 10.2 partitioning. Sucks!

    s. keeling wrote:
    > houghi :
    >> David Bolt wrote:
    >> >
    >> > [0] Apart from the annoying feature that it will, if allowed, wipe out
    >> > already installed Linux OSes[1], and Linux partitions, if there is no

    >>
    >> If allowed? That would giving responsability to the user. Clearly the OP
    >> could not handle that.

    >
    > Fsck off, houghi. You add nothing of any value to any of this.


    I am not the one who posted a sunject with the statement that the
    partitioner sucks.


    houghi
    --
    Remind me to write an article on the compulsive reading of news. The
    theme will be that most neuroses can be traced to the unhealthy habit
    of wallowing in the troubles of five billion strangers. -- Heinlein

  12. Re: 10.2 partitioning. Sucks!

    houghi wrote:
    > I am not the one who posted a sunject with the statement that the
    > partitioner sucks.


    Let me refrase that.
    You wanted to say:
    Subject: Strange things happening with 10.2 partitioning
    [...] has happend to me. Does anybody know what caused this and how I
    can solve it?

    Instead you posted:

    Subject: 10.2 partitioning. Sucks!

    From what I've seen, OpenSuse 10.2 install is broken, partitioning-
    wise.

    OpenSuse 10.2 failed. We're abandoning Suse.


    So somehow I am not adding value to this and it is my fault that I must
    have understood that the first is said, even though the second is
    posted and that value was asked to be added.

    Don't you think that if you posted it in the first manner, it MIGHT have
    been clearer that you were looking for a solution and not just ranting?

    I have seen plenty of people do their usual rant obout their
    distribution, before leaving for whatever they want to run. Some went
    from openSUSE, some went to openSUSE.

    Either way was a silly display of frustration that _always_ was caused by
    BEPCAK. Strangely people who were having real issues, were more mature
    about it and said: well, I tried X and Y and will use Y, because it
    solved matter Z, which _I_ was unable to solve under X.

    houghi
    --
    Remind me to write an article on the compulsive reading of news. The
    theme will be that most neuroses can be traced to the unhealthy habit
    of wallowing in the troubles of five billion strangers. -- Heinlein

  13. Re: 10.2 partitioning. Sucks!

    On Sat, 28 Jul 2007, s. keeling wrote:-

    >David Bolt :
    >> On Fri, 27 Jul 2007, David Bolt wrote:-
    >>
    >> I forgot to mention something about these step:
    >>
    >> >1, select the new installation;
    >> >2, choose the desktop type (KDE, Gnome, minimal graphical, or text);
    >> >3, click partitioning either using the "link" at the top of the page, or
    >> > using the pop-up menu on the "change" button;
    >> >4, click the radio-button "Create Custom Partition Setup" and the next
    >> > button;
    >> >5, click the radio-button "Custom Partitioning (for experts)" and then
    >> > the next button;
    >> >6, click the "Expert" button and the select
    >> > "Import Mount Points from Existing /etc/fstab" option;
    >> >7, click on the "Show Next" button until the correct / partition for
    >> > 10.1 is found and then click the "Yes" button;

    >>
    >> These steps can be used for almost any version of (open)SUSE upto and
    >> including 10.2.

    >
    >Thanks David. If my user's still willing, we'll try them out.
    >
    >It does look a bit convoluted/tortured compared to many other installs
    >I've done. "Upgrade" then "Format" the target ptn does not
    >"upgrade" anything. It replaces.


    That's just for doing a fresh install using the same partitions as an
    already existing install. If you're wanting to keep settings, etc. then
    choose upgrade and just pick the 10.1 as the one to upgrade.


    Regards,
    David Bolt

    --
    Member of Team Acorn checking nodes at 100 Mnodes/s: www.distributed.net
    RISC OS 3.11 | SUSE 10.0 32bit | SUSE 10.1 32bit | openSUSE 10.2 32bit
    RISC OS 3.6 | SUSE 10.0 64bit | SUSE 10.1 64bit | openSUSE 10.2 64bit
    TOS 4.02 | SUSE 9.3 32bit | | openSUSE 10.3a6 32bit

  14. Re: 10.2 partitioning. Sucks!

    On Sat, 28 Jul 2007, houghi wrote:-

    >s. keeling wrote:
    >> Sigh. Yet another new name for /boot/grub/menu.list?!? Mumble,
    >> grumble, ...

    >
    >All that I ever changed was /boot/grub/menu.list and nothing else.


    If I'm doing a fresh install, I've never needed to do that. I don't
    recall having to do that for any full release either. I do recall having
    to do it when upgrading one alpha to the next because it swapped the
    devices from hdx to sdx but didn't alter device.map or menu.lst.

    >>> >Partition numbers are not same in both cases.
    >>>
    >>> You've actually seen the partition numbers change? As in /dev/hda5 on
    >>> 10.2, or earlier, becomes something other than /dev/sda5 on 10.3? The

    >>
    >> I've already seen the change from /dev/hdaN to /dev/sdaN in Zenwalk.
    >> The "N" does not change. It remains the same ptn number. Only the
    >> "h" changes to "s".

    >
    >That is happening in 10.3. Not sure wether I am happy about that.


    I'm not bothered by it either way. It's going to cause some minor
    confusion when I upgrade the systems with mixed PATA and SATA devices.
    The only other problem it will cause will be on the systems with
    partitions numbered above 15, but I can sort that out by using LVM.


    Regards,
    David Bolt

    --
    Member of Team Acorn checking nodes at 100 Mnodes/s: www.distributed.net
    RISC OS 3.11 | SUSE 10.0 32bit | SUSE 10.1 32bit | openSUSE 10.2 32bit
    RISC OS 3.6 | SUSE 10.0 64bit | SUSE 10.1 64bit | openSUSE 10.2 64bit
    TOS 4.02 | SUSE 9.3 32bit | | openSUSE 10.3a6 32bit

  15. Re: 10.2 partitioning. Sucks!

    David Bolt wrote:
    >>All that I ever changed was /boot/grub/menu.list and nothing else.

    >
    > If I'm doing a fresh install, I've never needed to do that.


    I do it every time, as I do a dualboot every time and do not install
    grub with the first run. I use the 'old' one.

    > The only other problem it will cause will be on the systems with
    > partitions numbered above 15, but I can sort that out by using LVM.


    With my bad experience with LVM, I won't be using that again. At least
    not for a very long time.

    houghi
    --
    Remind me to write an article on the compulsive reading of news. The
    theme will be that most neuroses can be traced to the unhealthy habit
    of wallowing in the troubles of five billion strangers. -- Heinlein

  16. Re: 10.2 partitioning. Sucks!

    David Bolt :
    > On Fri, 27 Jul 2007, s. keeling wrote:-
    >
    > >10.2 wants to do psychotic stuff
    > >in partitoning, as in re-allocating detected filesystems.

    >
    > Now here's something you've stumbled upon that I've seen before. When I
    > installed 10.2 alongside a 10.1 install, the 10.2 installer wanted to
    > reuse the 10.1 partitions. However, using the expert mode in the
    > partitioner solved that very easily.


    I was using expert mode. I've never trusted "guided" partitioning
    thingies. Thanks for all your suggestions David. I'll report back if
    I get a chance to try it again.

    > >Even with
    > >"Expert" mode, it:
    > >
    > > - does not list the existing swap partition, which the installer
    > > just activated and is using!

    >
    > And you've reported this "bug" to Novell? You can do so via:
    >
    >


    Thanks, will do.

    > > - Wants to use /dev/hda9 (a non-existent ptn) for (some random Suse
    > > 10.2 ptn).

    >
    > Ah, so it was going to create a new /dev/hda9 to use. After all, it
    > isn't going to use a partition that either isn't there, or one that's
    > not going to be created.


    .... instead of the ptn I told it to use?!? Why create a new one?
    BTW, yes, the ptn I told it to use was more than big enough to hold
    it.

    > >I expect "expert" means *expert*, as in, "here's what you have to work
    > >with. *Don't* you dare touch any of the others, damnit!"

    >
    > Well, as houghi said, if you're going to use the expert tab, you're
    > supposed to be the expert. Since you managed to install several other
    > OSes on that same system, including openSUSE 10.1, and given your
    > posting history, you should at least have some inkling about what you're
    > doing.


    I do. Since '93. I started with a distro that I'll bet you've never
    even heard of (SLS). Its flaws drove Patrick V. to create Slackware.

    > >OpenSuse 10.2 failed.

    >
    > What you mean is you failed.


    How about Suse has failed in producing a reliable installer for
    certain (possibly complex) situations? I imagine if all I had on this
    thing was some form of Windows (or nothing at all), it would be fine.
    It doesn't appear to handle multi-boot Linux well at all. If I
    couldn't get it to work with all my years of experience, what's a
    noob's chances? Slim, or non-existent?

    This isn't the first time I've run into broken stuff like this. When
    we were installing 10.1 alongside Xubuntu, Kanotix, and Zenwalk, Suse'
    grub was about the only one that didn't blow away the other previously
    installed grub, and it mostly got everything right. *buntu's grub
    didn't even bother to ask, and clobbered the existing grub, which I
    thought was pretty damned rude.

    > >We're abandoning Suse.

    >
    > Or you're making your user abandon SUSE because you couldn't figure out
    > how to perform the install.


    With your suggestions, I hope to try it again (it's his decision, but
    I expect he'll go for it).

    > If you are wanting to do a fresh install of 10.2, wiping out 10.1, I'd
    > use the following steps:


    Many thanks, I'll report back.


    --
    Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
    (*) Linux Counter #80292
    - - http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html Please, don't Cc: me.

  17. Re: 10.2 partitioning. Sucks!

    houghi :
    > s. keeling wrote:
    > >
    > > I've already seen the change from /dev/hdaN to /dev/sdaN in Zenwalk.
    > > The "N" does not change. It remains the same ptn number. Only the
    > > "h" changes to "s".

    >
    > That is happening in 10.3. Not sure wether I am happy about that.


    If you know about it beforehand, it's not a problem. It works. If
    you don't know about it, it's easy to fix.


    --
    Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
    (*) Linux Counter #80292
    - - http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html Please, don't Cc: me.

  18. Re: 10.2 partitioning. Sucks!

    houghi :
    > s. keeling wrote:
    > > houghi :
    > >>
    > >> If allowed? That would giving responsability to the user. Clearly the OP
    > >> could not handle that.

    > >
    > > Fsck off, houghi. You add nothing of any value to any of this.

    >
    > I am not the one who posted a subject with the statement that the
    > partitioner sucks.


    In certain situations, it apparently does. After all, it didn't list
    the swap ptn that the installer was already using.

    Sorry to be rude, but your comment struck me as rude.


    --
    Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
    (*) Linux Counter #80292
    - - http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html Please, don't Cc: me.

  19. Re: 10.2 partitioning. Sucks!

    houghi :
    > houghi wrote:
    > > I am not the one who posted a subject with the statement that the
    > > partitioner sucks.


    I was replying to this:

    > houghi wrote:
    > If allowed? That would giving responsability to the user. Clearly the OP
    > could not handle that.


    .... Assuming I'm some dumb schmuck who hasn't a clue what he's doing.
    Unfounded, sweeping generalizations don't go very far with me.

    > Let me refrase that.
    > You wanted to say:


    It's a fair cop. Yeah, I guess it was a bit of a rant. I've just
    never run into as frustrating an install as that one. I don't like
    software that blindly assumes it knows more about my universe than I
    do. Not even noticing that there's an existing swap ptn, which it was
    presently using, is pretty dumb. Bug report in the works.


    --
    Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
    (*) Linux Counter #80292
    - - http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html Please, don't Cc: me.

  20. Re: 10.2 partitioning. Sucks!

    houghi :
    > s. keeling wrote:
    > > Our swap ptn was already "formatted". It's the same swap ptn used by
    > > the other two Linuxes on the box, and it was the swap ptn the
    > > installer was using at the time. However, it was never mentioned in
    > > the list of existing ptns, despite the fact that the installer was
    > > already using it.

    >
    > You can take screenshots. Please do and tell us what you were doing. The
    > screenshots I took are on http://houghi.org/shots/KDE/ I can change


    The installer can take screenshots? Huh. I didn't see anything like
    that (but then I wasn't looking for it either). Worst case, he has a
    digital camera, so I guess we could do it that way.


    --
    Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
    (*) Linux Counter #80292
    - - http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html Please, don't Cc: me.

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