Ultra10 not seeing IDE disks - SUN

This is a discussion on Ultra10 not seeing IDE disks - SUN ; Hi, I have a Sun Ultra10 with two 9GB IDE disks. It has been running fine for 3+ years. A few weeks ago I powered it off, and today powered it on again only to find that both IDE disks ...

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  1. Ultra10 not seeing IDE disks

    Hi,

    I have a Sun Ultra10 with two 9GB IDE disks. It has been running fine
    for 3+ years. A few weeks ago I powered it off, and today powered it on
    again only to find that both IDE disks are no longer found:

    ok probe-ide
    Device 0 ( Primary Master )
    Not Present

    Device 1 ( Primary Slave )
    Not Present

    Device 2 ( Secondary Master )
    Removable ATAPI Model: CRD-8322B

    Device 3 ( Secondary Slave )
    Not Present

    ok

    The machine was never moved etc...

    Any know what's going on here?

    Sander

  2. Re: Ultra10 not seeing IDE disks

    "Sander" wrote in message
    news:48d50aa7$0$729$8061b7c5@textnews.xtramediaser vices.nl...
    > Hi,
    >
    > I have a Sun Ultra10 with two 9GB IDE disks. It has been running fine
    > for 3+ years. A few weeks ago I powered it off, and today powered it on
    > again only to find that both IDE disks are no longer found:


    Try hooking just one up at a time and see if it finds the disk.
    One bad IDE drive on the bus can cause both not to be seen.

    Trinean



  3. Re: Ultra10 not seeing IDE disks

    On 2008-09-20, Sander wrote:
    > Hi,
    >
    > I have a Sun Ultra10 with two 9GB IDE disks. It has been running fine
    > for 3+ years. A few weeks ago I powered it off, and today powered it on
    > again only to find that both IDE disks are no longer found:
    >
    > ok probe-ide
    > Device 0 ( Primary Master )
    > Not Present
    >
    > Device 1 ( Primary Slave )
    > Not Present
    >
    > Device 2 ( Secondary Master )
    > Removable ATAPI Model: CRD-8322B
    >
    > Device 3 ( Secondary Slave )
    > Not Present
    >
    > ok
    >
    > The machine was never moved etc...


    Were both drives on the same IDE bus? If so, perhaps the cable
    has vibrated loose in its socket on the system board. If the drives
    were on separate buses, I'm not sure however, since it still sees the
    CD-ROM drive.

    Since the power comes directly from the power supply to both
    drives, and there is no separate cable to come lose, I don't think that
    it is the power in this case.

    But -- if you mean that is has been running continuously for 3+
    years, and you just finally shut it down, it may be stiction keeping the
    drives from spinning up. I'm not sure what happens with the IDE bus
    when the drive can't spin up, but with SCSI the board on the drive still
    identifies itself to the system, and I would *hope* that the IDE drive
    do as well.

    > Any know what's going on here?


    Just some guesses above. Open the box, unplug and replug the
    cable from the system board to the drives -- and unplug and replug at
    both drives too.

    See whether the drives spin up. (Do you have a stethoscope to
    listen to the drives individually?)

    It may be that you need to replace the drives. I would go for
    something in the 120 GB range (probably a *lot* easier to find than 9GB
    ones these days. :-)

    If you have a spare drive around which worked last time you used
    it, connect it in place of the internal drives (perhaps don't even mount
    it, just connect it while resting it on top of an insulating surface
    like cardboard) and see if the system recognizes it. (Try
    probe-scsi-all, or perhaps probe-ide-all at the "ok" prompt.

    You can also easily tell whether the spare drive is spinning up by
    picking it up after it has been powered up and just gently twisting it
    around its long axis. If it is spinning, you will feel an unmistakable
    gyroscopic action.

    Good Luck,
    DoN.

    --
    Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
    (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
    --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

  4. Re: Ultra10 not seeing IDE disks

    Sander wrote:
    > Hi,
    >
    > I have a Sun Ultra10 with two 9GB IDE disks. It has been running fine
    > for 3+ years. A few weeks ago I powered it off, and today powered it on
    > again only to find that both IDE disks are no longer found:
    >
    > ok probe-ide
    > Device 0 ( Primary Master )
    > Not Present
    >
    > Device 1 ( Primary Slave )
    > Not Present
    >
    > Device 2 ( Secondary Master )
    > Removable ATAPI Model: CRD-8322B
    >
    > Device 3 ( Secondary Slave )
    > Not Present
    >
    > ok
    >
    > The machine was never moved etc...
    >
    > Any know what's going on here?
    >
    > Sander



    FWIW My DEC Alpha system had an old SCSI drive that wouldn't spin up
    after cooling off, but was fine if I kept it running. I eventually
    replaced the drive, but for a long time I'd remove the drive and give
    the case a quick twist about the axis of the drive. Plug it back in and
    it would work fine until the next time I powered down.

    Because it only happened if the drive cooled down, I assumed it was the
    bearing grease congealing that caused the problem.

  5. Re: Ultra10 not seeing IDE disks

    On 2008-09-23, Reginald Beardsley wrote:

    [ ... ]

    > FWIW My DEC Alpha system had an old SCSI drive that wouldn't spin up
    > after cooling off, but was fine if I kept it running. I eventually
    > replaced the drive, but for a long time I'd remove the drive and give
    > the case a quick twist about the axis of the drive. Plug it back in and
    > it would work fine until the next time I powered down.
    >
    > Because it only happened if the drive cooled down, I assumed it was the
    > bearing grease congealing that caused the problem.


    In particular, bearing grease which has gone into vapor phase
    from the heat of operation, and when the drive is shut down long enough
    to cool down, it condenses on the platters, and glues the heads to the
    platters.

    Some drives, to get around that, have int heir firmware a
    command to step the heads in and out a little before the drive spins up.
    This can unstick the heads from the platters until the goo gets too
    thick. :-)

    Good Luck,
    DoN.

    --
    Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
    (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
    --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

  6. Re: Ultra10 not seeing IDE disks

    On 2008-09-23, DoN. Nichols wrote:
    > On 2008-09-23, Reginald Beardsley wrote:
    >
    > [ ... ]
    >
    >> FWIW My DEC Alpha system had an old SCSI drive that wouldn't spin up
    >> after cooling off, but was fine if I kept it running. I eventually
    >> replaced the drive, but for a long time I'd remove the drive and give
    >> the case a quick twist about the axis of the drive. Plug it back in and
    >> it would work fine until the next time I powered down.
    >>
    >> Because it only happened if the drive cooled down, I assumed it was the
    >> bearing grease congealing that caused the problem.

    >
    > In particular, bearing grease which has gone into vapor phase
    > from the heat of operation, and when the drive is shut down long enough
    > to cool down, it condenses on the platters, and glues the heads to the
    > platters.
    >
    > Some drives, to get around that, have int heir firmware a
    > command to step the heads in and out a little before the drive spins up.
    > This can unstick the heads from the platters until the goo gets too
    > thick. :-)


    Hmmm. Personally, I'm a tad sceptical about this "vapourised grease" theory.
    There's a well-known phenomenon called "stiction" which affects disk drives;

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stictio...rd_Disk_Drives

    --
    "Be thankful that you have a life, and forsake your vain
    and presumptuous desire for a second one."
    [email me at huge {at} huge (dot) org uk]

  7. Re: Ultra10 not seeing IDE disks

    On 2008-09-24, Huge wrote:
    > On 2008-09-23, DoN. Nichols wrote:
    >> On 2008-09-23, Reginald Beardsley wrote:


    [ ... ]

    >>> Because it only happened if the drive cooled down, I assumed it was the
    >>> bearing grease congealing that caused the problem.

    >>
    >> In particular, bearing grease which has gone into vapor phase
    >> from the heat of operation, and when the drive is shut down long enough
    >> to cool down, it condenses on the platters, and glues the heads to the
    >> platters.


    [ ... ]

    > Hmmm. Personally, I'm a tad sceptical about this "vapourised grease" theory.
    > There's a well-known phenomenon called "stiction" which affects disk drives;
    >
    > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stictio...rd_Disk_Drives


    O.K. They are talking about a lubricant intentionally placed on
    the drive platters instead of the migration of lubricant from the
    spindle bearings. I've not heard that one before. And I'm not really
    sure about information from Wikipedia -- as it is subjet to modification
    by pretty much anybody.

    I'll grant you that "grease" might be a bit too strong (thick) a
    word -- but there *is* (and must be) a lubricant in the spindle
    bearings. Running them dry leads to very early bearing failure, and a
    disk drive is designed for long running times.

    And the very thing which they said caused the breakdown of the
    lubricant on the platters (heat) could cause migration of lubricant from
    the bearings to the platters. Breakdown of lubricant they say -- and I
    am just saying that it is not a lubricant *intentionally* placed on the
    platters. We agree that it is "stiction" in any case. But that is just
    a shorthand for whatever phenomenon actually causes the problem.

    Enjoy,
    DoN.

    --
    Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
    (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
    --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

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