Linux (new thread)

A few weeks back I had tried to install Linux on an old Sun Workstation 5

I got a Slackware port installed, but the x-server failed due to lack of
"core pointer"

After trying various configurations I set the installation aside

I had also tried to install Debian, but the ancient cdrom had been
lost by the installer about halfway through


After getting a newer (but still old) cdrom, I got Debian installed and
working just fine...
(though the xorg.conf) from Debian will not work on the Slackware install...
still has the same problems with the mouse.


The machine was built in 1994 and has a 110mhz CPU
and 224 megs of RAM

224megs of RAM was a lot for those days.
I am just wondering if anyone knows what that machine might have cost.

I recall that a P-1 with 8 megs of RAM back in those days
was about 1600_USD

On 2008-08-28, philo <philo@privacy.net> wrote:[color=blue]
> A few weeks back I had tried to install Linux on an old Sun Workstation 5[/color]

You mean a SPARCStation 5? (from your 110 MHz CPu speed, this
sounds like one. IIRC, they were available with 70 MHz, 110 MHz, and
170 MHz speeds.
[color=blue]
> I got a Slackware port installed, but the x-server failed due to lack of
> "core pointer"
>
> After trying various configurations I set the installation aside
>
> I had also tried to install Debian, but the ancient cdrom had been
> lost by the installer about halfway through
>
>
> After getting a newer (but still old) cdrom, I got Debian installed and
> working just fine...
> (though the xorg.conf) from Debian will not work on the Slackware install...
> still has the same problems with the mouse.[/color]

O.K. Most distributions assume that you have either a PS/2 type
mouse or a serial mouse. The mouse interface on Suns is a bit different
(and typically goes through the keyboard cable) unless you get a really
much newer machine with USB mouse and keyboard.

Look in /dev for something named wsmouse*. I find (in OpenBSD)
five of them:

======================================================================
crw------- 1 root wheel 81, 0 Jan 3 2008 /dev/wsmouse
crw------- 1 root wheel 80, 0 Jan 3 2008 /dev/wsmouse0
crw------- 1 root wheel 80, 1 Jan 3 2008 /dev/wsmouse1
crw------- 1 root wheel 80, 2 Jan 3 2008 /dev/wsmouse2
crw------- 1 root wheel 80, 3 Jan 3 2008 /dev/wsmouse3
======================================================================

and I'll bet that the first one is what you need as your pointer device.

Suns (pre USB) have two Zilog 8530 dual serial port chips. The
first one (zs0) provides the two RS-232 serial ports (TTYA and TTYB).
The second one (zs1) provides the interfaces for the keyboard and the
mouse. Hence the presence of:

======================================================================
crw------- 1 root wheel 81, 1 Jan 3 2008 /dev/wskbd
crw------- 1 root wheel 79, 0 Jan 3 2008 /dev/wskbd0
crw------- 1 root wheel 79, 1 Jan 3 2008 /dev/wskbd1
crw------- 1 root wheel 79, 2 Jan 3 2008 /dev/wskbd2
crw------- 1 root wheel 79, 3 Jan 3 2008 /dev/wskbd3
======================================================================

in addition to the mouse entries.

Note -- I've not run linux on one of these, but I have run
OpenBSD on them, and I did get X11 to work before going back to purely
console work with no need for X11. The documentation used to be included
in the examples of the configuration file -- before it went from XFree86
to XF86. I had to dig back into an older system prior to the name
change to refresh my memory.

Your linux distribution supplier *should* have a FAQ page with
links to special things about the Suns, and in particular the SPARCs.
[color=blue]
>
> The machine was built in 1994 and has a 110mhz CPU
> and 224 megs of RAM
>
> 224megs of RAM was a lot for those days.[/color]

IIRC, 256 MB was the maximum for that system.
[color=blue]
> I am just wondering if anyone knows what that machine might have cost.[/color]

Too much for me to think of getting one when it was new. But
hamfest prices make an amazing number of things affordable. :-)
[color=blue]
> I recall that a P-1 with 8 megs of RAM back in those days
> was about 1600_USD[/color]

Much beyond that.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: <dnichols@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | [url]http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html[/url]
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"DoN. Nichols" <dnichols@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:slrngbei7h.mmg.dnichols@Katana.d-and-d.com...[color=blue]
> On 2008-08-28, philo <philo@privacy.net> wrote:[color=green]
> > A few weeks back I had tried to install Linux on an old Sun Workstation[/color][/color]
5[color=blue]
>
> You mean a SPARCStation 5? (from your 110 MHz CPu speed, this
> sounds like one. IIRC, they were available with 70 MHz, 110 MHz, and
> 170 MHz speeds.[/color]


Yes, that's the one!
According to the documentation that I got with the machine,
the 170 mhz CPU was built by a different mfg and there were some problems
with it when installing Linux. Any the documentation was pretty old
and I am sure things have changed by now.

[color=blue][color=green]
> > I got a Slackware port installed, but the x-server failed due to lack of
> > "core pointer"
> >
> > After trying various configurations I set the installation aside
> >
> > I had also tried to install Debian, but the ancient cdrom had been
> > lost by the installer about halfway through
> >
> >
> > After getting a newer (but still old) cdrom, I got Debian installed and
> > working just fine...
> > (though the xorg.conf) from Debian will not work on the Slackware[/color][/color]
install...[color=blue][color=green]
> > still has the same problems with the mouse.[/color]
>
> O.K. Most distributions assume that you have either a PS/2 type
> mouse or a serial mouse. The mouse interface on Suns is a bit different
> (and typically goes through the keyboard cable) unless you get a really
> much newer machine with USB mouse and keyboard.
>
> Look in /dev for something named wsmouse*. I find (in OpenBSD)
> five of them:
>
> ======================================================================
> crw------- 1 root wheel 81, 0 Jan 3 2008 /dev/wsmouse
> crw------- 1 root wheel 80, 0 Jan 3 2008 /dev/wsmouse0
> crw------- 1 root wheel 80, 1 Jan 3 2008 /dev/wsmouse1
> crw------- 1 root wheel 80, 2 Jan 3 2008 /dev/wsmouse2
> crw------- 1 root wheel 80, 3 Jan 3 2008 /dev/wsmouse3
> ======================================================================
>
> and I'll bet that the first one is what you need as your pointer device.
>
> Suns (pre USB) have two Zilog 8530 dual serial port chips. The
> first one (zs0) provides the two RS-232 serial ports (TTYA and TTYB).
> The second one (zs1) provides the interfaces for the keyboard and the
> mouse. Hence the presence of:
>
> ======================================================================
> crw------- 1 root wheel 81, 1 Jan 3 2008 /dev/wskbd
> crw------- 1 root wheel 79, 0 Jan 3 2008 /dev/wskbd0
> crw------- 1 root wheel 79, 1 Jan 3 2008 /dev/wskbd1
> crw------- 1 root wheel 79, 2 Jan 3 2008 /dev/wskbd2
> crw------- 1 root wheel 79, 3 Jan 3 2008 /dev/wskbd3
> ======================================================================
>
> in addition to the mouse entries.
>
> Note -- I've not run linux on one of these, but I have run
> OpenBSD on them, and I did get X11 to work before going back to purely
> console work with no need for X11. The documentation used to be included
> in the examples of the configuration file -- before it went from XFree86
> to XF86. I had to dig back into an older system prior to the name
> change to refresh my memory.
>
> Your linux distribution supplier *should* have a FAQ page with
> links to special things about the Suns, and in particular the SPARCs.
>[/color]

Well Linux has now pretty much gotten away from XFree86 and the like.
Xorg seems to be the standard, and it's usually a bit easier to setup

The working distribuation of Debian just installed the mouse as a PS/2 mouse
and works fine.

That configuration did not work on the Slackware installation
but when I changed /dev/mouse to /dev/sunmouse

the error about "no core pointer" went away...
however the x-server still failed. I'll have to boot the machine up
to get the subsequent error message, but I think there was no such module.

BTW: I did get Net BSD's x-server to work,
but I blew away that installation when I installed Slackware.
I currently have three HD's . One with Debian, one with Solaris and one with
Slackware...
though I did find an add'l drive in my junk box,
so will not have to blow away any current installtions if I decide to load
another!

[color=blue][color=green]
> > The machine was built in 1994 and has a 110mhz CPU
> > and 224 megs of RAM
> >
> > 224megs of RAM was a lot for those days.[/color]
>
> IIRC, 256 MB was the maximum for that system.[/color]

That's correct, there is on RAM slot not propigated,
so it could have gone up to 256megs.

Thanks for the reply!
[color=blue]
>[color=green]
> > I am just wondering if anyone knows what that machine might have cost.[/color]
>
> Too much for me to think of getting one when it was new. But
> hamfest prices make an amazing number of things affordable. :-)
>[color=green]
> > I recall that a P-1 with 8 megs of RAM back in those days
> > was about 1600_USD[/color]
>
> Much beyond that.
>
> Enjoy,
> DoN.
>[/color]

>>>>> "philo" == philo <philo@privacy.net> writes:

philo> The machine was built in 1994 and has a 110mhz CPU
philo> and 224 megs of RAM

philo> 224megs of RAM was a lot for those days.
philo> I am just wondering if anyone knows what that machine might have cost.

philo> I recall that a P-1 with 8 megs of RAM back in those days
philo> was about 1600_USD

Don't know about Sparc station 5's, but Sparc 10s and/or 20s went for
about $10,000 back then. But I can't remember if they had just one,
two, or four CPUs in them, and I don't remember how much memory was
included. That was a long time ago when I used those machines.

Ray

"Raymond Toy" <raymond.toy@ericsson.com> wrote in message
news:sxd8wug9dec.fsf@rtp.ericsson.se...[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> >>>>> "philo" == philo <philo@privacy.net> writes:[/color][/color]
>
> philo> The machine was built in 1994 and has a 110mhz CPU
> philo> and 224 megs of RAM
>
> philo> 224megs of RAM was a lot for those days.
> philo> I am just wondering if anyone knows what that machine might[/color]
have cost.[color=blue]
>
> philo> I recall that a P-1 with 8 megs of RAM back in those days
> philo> was about 1600_USD
>
> Don't know about Sparc station 5's, but Sparc 10s and/or 20s went for
> about $10,000 back then. But I can't remember if they had just one,
> two, or four CPUs in them, and I don't remember how much memory was
> included. That was a long time ago when I used those machines.
>
> Ray[/color]

Wow, too bad it's only worth $1 now :)

On 2008-08-29, Raymond Toy <raymond.toy@ericsson.com> wrote:[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>>>>> "philo" == philo <philo@privacy.net> writes:[/color][/color]
>
> philo> The machine was built in 1994 and has a 110mhz CPU
> philo> and 224 megs of RAM
>
> philo> 224megs of RAM was a lot for those days.
> philo> I am just wondering if anyone knows what that machine might have cost.
>
> philo> I recall that a P-1 with 8 megs of RAM back in those days
> philo> was about 1600_USD
>
> Don't know about Sparc station 5's, but Sparc 10s and/or 20s went for
> about $10,000 back then. But I can't remember if they had just one,
> two, or four CPUs in them,[/color]

Well ... the SS-5 has a fixed CPU on the system board, so it is
only one no mater what.

The SS-10 and SS-20 had two CPU slots and normally Sun put one
CPu on each -- but somewhere around I have a pair of rather low speed
ROSS CPU boards which each had two CPUs and no cache on them. As a
result, Solaris would refuse to install on them -- but the older SunOs
4.1.4 went in fine -- and made full use of all four CPUIs. And the
excuse for moving from SunOs 4.1.x to Solaris 2.x was supposedly
because it was necessary to run multi-processor installations, even
though Solbourne was running Multi-processor SPARC systems with their
own version of SunOs 4.1.2 through 4.1.4. The designation for those
CPUs was "KAP" which was supposed to stand for "Kick Ass Processor". A
pity they got out of the systems market. The S4000DX desktop machine
was a really fast machine for its time -- ran rings around the SS-2s of
the period.
[color=blue]
> and I don't remember how much memory was
> included. That was a long time ago when I used those machines.[/color]

Of course, you could buy them less than fully loaded. :-)

The FEH ready to hand is just a little too new to list the
SS-10, but it does still list the SS-20 and shows that it had eight DIMM
slots. Looks like a maximum of 64 MB per DIMM, topping out at 512 MB.

Prices for individual processors and DIMM sets was scary if you
weren't a big company or a government lab. When I think of the things
which I envied in our computer center while I was working as a sysadmin
which I now have and have *retired* as too slow. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: <dnichols@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | [url]http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html[/url]
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"DoN. Nichols" <dnichols@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:slrngbh9tg.2kc.dnichols@Katana.d-and-d.com...[color=blue]
> On 2008-08-29, Raymond Toy <raymond.toy@ericsson.com> wrote:[color=green][color=darkred]
> >>>>>> "philo" == philo <philo@privacy.net> writes:[/color]
> >
> > philo> The machine was built in 1994 and has a 110mhz CPU
> > philo> and 224 megs of RAM
> >
> > philo> 224megs of RAM was a lot for those days.
> > philo> I am just wondering if anyone knows what that machine might[/color][/color]
have cost.[color=blue][color=green]
> >
> > philo> I recall that a P-1 with 8 megs of RAM back in those days
> > philo> was about 1600_USD
> >
> > Don't know about Sparc station 5's, but Sparc 10s and/or 20s went for
> > about $10,000 back then. But I can't remember if they had just one,
> > two, or four CPUs in them,[/color]
>
> Well ... the SS-5 has a fixed CPU on the system board, so it is
> only one no mater what.
>
> The SS-10 and SS-20 had two CPU slots and normally Sun put one
> CPu on each -- but somewhere around I have a pair of rather low speed
> ROSS CPU boards which each had two CPUs and no cache on them. As a
> result, Solaris would refuse to install on them -- but the older SunOs
> 4.1.4 went in fine -- and made full use of all four CPUIs. And the
> excuse for moving from SunOs 4.1.x to Solaris 2.x was supposedly
> because it was necessary to run multi-processor installations, even
> though Solbourne was running Multi-processor SPARC systems with their
> own version of SunOs 4.1.2 through 4.1.4. The designation for those
> CPUs was "KAP" which was supposed to stand for "Kick Ass Processor". A
> pity they got out of the systems market. The S4000DX desktop machine
> was a really fast machine for its time -- ran rings around the SS-2s of
> the period.
>[color=green]
> > and I don't remember how much memory was
> > included. That was a long time ago when I used those machines.[/color]
>
> Of course, you could buy them less than fully loaded. :-)
>
> The FEH ready to hand is just a little too new to list the
> SS-10, but it does still list the SS-20 and shows that it had eight DIMM
> slots. Looks like a maximum of 64 MB per DIMM, topping out at 512 MB.
>
> Prices for individual processors and DIMM sets was scary if you
> weren't a big company or a government lab. When I think of the things
> which I envied in our computer center while I was working as a sysadmin
> which I now have and have *retired* as too slow. :-)
>
> Enjoy,
> DoN.
>[/color]


Well I saw a post here a week or so ago and it was mentioned that Sun H/W
seemed to be better than what is being used in PC's. After examining my Sun
Workstation
I did not notice any particular difference until I realized the machine was
made in 1994.
For those days I'd say it must have been superior. About the only PC at the
time with similar
quality was probably the IBM ps/2. I still have one in my collection!

On 2008-08-30, DoN. Nichols <dnichols@d-and-d.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
> Prices for individual processors and DIMM sets was scary if you
> weren't a big company or a government lab. When I think of the things
> which I envied in our computer center while I was working as a sysadmin
> which I now have and have *retired* as too slow. :-)[/color]

I bought an Ultra 2 for one group at work. I can't recall how much the actual
box was, but the memory was $60K. Was it 2Gb? Possibly 1Gb. I forget. I gave the
box away to a friend last year for nothing, since he wanted to play with
SPARC/Solaris. I still use the 5Gb Exabyte drive off it for backups.

Talking of which, I have a internal SCSI DLT drive - anyone got any idea where I
can get an enclosure/power supply for it? I bought it by mistake, don't want to
throw it away and my backups now run to 4 x 8mm DAT tapes, which is a bore.

--
"Be thankful that you have a life, and forsake your vain
and presumptuous desire for a second one."
[email me at huge {at} huge (dot) org <dot> uk]

"Huge" <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote in message
news:g9dv9u$239$2@anubis.demon.co.uk...[color=blue]
> On 2008-08-30, DoN. Nichols <dnichols@d-and-d.com> wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Prices for individual processors and DIMM sets was scary if you
>> weren't a big company or a government lab. When I think of the things
>> which I envied in our computer center while I was working as a sysadmin
>> which I now have and have *retired* as too slow. :-)[/color]
>
> I bought an Ultra 2 for one group at work. I can't recall how much the
> actual
> box was, but the memory was $60K. Was it 2Gb? Possibly 1Gb. I forget. I
> gave the
> box away to a friend last year for nothing, since he wanted to play with
> SPARC/Solaris. I still use the 5Gb Exabyte drive off it for backups.
>
> Talking of which, I have a internal SCSI DLT drive - anyone got any idea
> where I
> can get an enclosure/power supply for it? I bought it by mistake, don't
> want to
> throw it away and my backups now run to 4 x 8mm DAT tapes, which is a
> bore.[/color]


here's one

[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/DLT-External-Tape-Drive-Enclosure-LVD-SE_W0QQitemZ260271408131QQihZ016QQcategoryZ51090QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem?refid=store[/url]

On 2008-09-01, philo <philo@privacy.net> wrote:[color=blue]
>
> "Huge" <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote in message
> news:g9dv9u$239$2@anubis.demon.co.uk...[/color]
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Talking of which, I have a internal SCSI DLT drive - anyone got any idea
>> where I
>> can get an enclosure/power supply for it? I bought it by mistake, don't
>> want to
>> throw it away and my backups now run to 4 x 8mm DAT tapes, which is a
>> bore.[/color]
>
>
> here's one
>
> [url]http://cgi.ebay.com/DLT-External-Tape-Drive-Enclosure-LVD-SE_W0QQitemZ260271408131QQihZ016QQcategoryZ51090QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem?refid=store[/url][/color]

Thanks, that's the thing. All I need now is one in the UK!

[looks at ebay.co.uk]

Actually, it looks lioke it might be cheaper and easier to throw away the
internal drive and buy another, external, one.


--
"Be thankful that you have a life, and forsake your vain
and presumptuous desire for a second one."
[email me at huge {at} huge (dot) org <dot> uk]

"Huge" <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote in message
news:g9gero$3lh$1@anubis.demon.co.uk...[color=blue]
> On 2008-09-01, philo <philo@privacy.net> wrote:[color=green]
> >
> > "Huge" <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote in message
> > news:g9dv9u$239$2@anubis.demon.co.uk...[/color]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
> >> Talking of which, I have a internal SCSI DLT drive - anyone got any[/color][/color][/color]
idea[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> >> where I
> >> can get an enclosure/power supply for it? I bought it by mistake, don't
> >> want to
> >> throw it away and my backups now run to 4 x 8mm DAT tapes, which is a
> >> bore.[/color]
> >
> >
> > here's one
> >
> >[/color][/color]
[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/DLT-External-Tape-Drive-Enclosure-LVD-SE_W0QQitemZ260271408131QQihZ016QQcategoryZ51090QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem?refid=store[/url][color=blue]
>
> Thanks, that's the thing. All I need now is one in the UK!
>
> [looks at ebay.co.uk]
>
> Actually, it looks lioke it might be cheaper and easier to throw away the
> internal drive and buy another, external, one.
>[/color]


Probably...
but it may not be too difficult to build your own enclosure...
but probably more trouble than it's worth...
though I always like to use the spare bits I have
and will spend hours with a nibbling tool so that I can re-use
some case I already have.

A number of times I've even modified old PC cabinets
to get an ATX mobo fitted into an XT/AT case.

If that was my tape drive
I'd probably just put it an an XT/AT case
and use the existing power supply !

> > Talking of which, I have a internal SCSI DLT drive - anyone got any idea[color=blue][color=green]
> > where I
> > can get an enclosure/power supply for it? I bought it by mistake, don't
> > want to
> > throw it away and my backups now run to 4 x 8mm DAT tapes, which is[/color][/color]

If you're in the UK I think I have one. Is your DLT 50 pin SCSI-2?

--
Who needs a life when you've got Unix? :-)
Email: [email]john@unixnerd.demon.co.uk[/email], John G.Burns B.Eng, Bonny Scotland
Web : [url]http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk[/url] - The Ultimate BMW Homepage!
Need Sun or HP Unix kit? [url]http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk/unix.html[/url]
[url]www.Strathspey.co.uk[/url] - Quality Binoculars at a Sensible price

On 2008-08-31, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:[color=blue]
> On 2008-08-30, DoN. Nichols <dnichols@d-and-d.com> wrote:[/color]

[ ... ]
[color=blue][color=green]
>> When I think of the things
>> which I envied in our computer center while I was working as a sysadmin
>> which I now have and have *retired* as too slow. :-)[/color]
>
> I bought an Ultra 2 for one group at work. I can't recall how much the actual
> box was, but the memory was $60K. Was it 2Gb? Possibly 1Gb. I forget. I gave the
> box away to a friend last year for nothing, since he wanted to play with
> SPARC/Solaris. I still use the 5Gb Exabyte drive off it for backups.
>
> Talking of which, I have a internal SCSI DLT drive - anyone got any idea where I
> can get an enclosure/power supply for it? I bought it by mistake, don't want to
> throw it away and my backups now run to 4 x 8mm DAT tapes, which is a bore.[/color]

Hmm ... which interface on the DLT? IIRC you can get them both
in 50-pin and 68-pin SCSI. If it were a 50-pin, you could put it in an
old full height sandwichbox housing, or a FlexiPack. For the 68-pin,
you will need a FlexiPack with 68-pin -- which otherwise could hold two
half-height SCSI drives. One which I *know* can hold a 68-pin DLT drive
is the 599-2129-01, as I received mine with a DLT drive in it.

Depending on which Exabyte drive you have, if it is a 50-pin
SCSI you could possibly put it in the housing which currently holds your
Exabyte.

Now -- aside from the DLT drives handling 20 or 35 GB (native,
and double that compressed), you can also consider some newer Exabyte
drives:

The EXB-8505XL gets about seven or eight GB on a tape.

The EXB-8909 (plain Mammoth) gets 40 GB native.

The Mammoth-2 (no EXB number that I can find) gets 60 GB native
and claims 150 GB with the drive's own compression. (Obviously, this is
a function of the compressibility of what you are backing up, and you
seldom will get this unless perhaps if it is plain text. :-)

However -- before you decide on any of these -- look at what
tapes for them will cost. The Mammoth-2 60/150 (255 meter) tapes seem
to be selling new for something like $120.00 based on eBay prices.
Sometimes you can get lucky, and there is one vendor currently offering
Exabyte refurbished tapes for $27.??.

And something which would be nice would be one of the Exabute
EZ-17 libraries. Those have one drive and seven tapes maximum, and can
be controlled by the mtx program (open source, free for the download),
and if you want to make it really automatic and happen to be running
Solaris 10, you can use "Amanda" to run the backups, or write your own
scripts. I'm currently running an EXB-430 library which has four
Mammoth-II drives, and can hold up to 30 tape (plus the import/export
slot which you *can* use as one more tape).

Note one problem which I have been having with Amanda and ZFS
filesystems is that Amanda just backs up the top-level directory,
without backing up any of the contents. Something not working right
with the script which builds the list of files to back up this
particular pass. So -- for those I have my own scripts doing a snapshot
and then backing the snapshot up with gnu's tar.

Amanda comes with Solaris 10 -- I forget whether it is in the
main distribution, or in the Software Companion -- but you can also
download the sources and compile them yourself, which gets you a
slightly newer version.

The EZ-17 comes in two formats. One (with a white faceplate)
has the original Mammoth (40 GB native) tape drive, and the other (with
a black faceplate) has the Mammoth-20 (60 GB native).

Be warned that the Mammoth drives do not like the earlier tapes
and will start blinking "unclean" ... "unclean" (an amber LED flashing)
if you try to load one, forcing a run of a cleaning tape. So -- you
would have to keep your old drive until you were sure that you no longer
needed the backups made with it.

The Mammoth-II does not particularly like the original Mammoth
tapes either. The way to tell them apart (without memorizing the sizes)
is the color of the cassette. Black is the original 2.3/5 GB. White is
the Mammoth (40 GB native), and blue is the Mammoth-II (60 GB native).
this is particularly useful when you are at a hamfest or other flea
market and come across them. If you can get them for $5.00 each or
less, it is worth the time to test them to find how many are still good.

I am told that the DLT tapes are particularly fragile. Drop one
(even in a protective box) and you are likely to strip internal gears.
Since I have two DLT tapes and one drive which is no longer in its
housing, I've not experimented. But look up eBay prices for tapes for
all three. Both the Mammoth and the Mammoth-II tapes are labeled AME
("Advanced Metal Evaporated", I think, not "American Methodist
Episcopal". :-)

Just some thoughts,
DoN.

--
Email: <dnichols@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | [url]http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html[/url]
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2008-09-01, John Burns <john@unixnerd.demon.co.uk> wrote:[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>> > Talking of which, I have a internal SCSI DLT drive - anyone got any idea
>> > where I
>> > can get an enclosure/power supply for it? I bought it by mistake, don't
>> > want to
>> > throw it away and my backups now run to 4 x 8mm DAT tapes, which is[/color][/color]
>
> If you're in the UK I think I have one. Is your DLT 50 pin SCSI-2?[/color]

68 pin, I'm afraid.


--
"Be thankful that you have a life, and forsake your vain
and presumptuous desire for a second one."
[email me at huge {at} huge (dot) org <dot> uk]

On 2008-09-02, DoN. Nichols <dnichols@d-and-d.com> wrote:[color=blue]
> On 2008-08-31, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:[/color]
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Talking of which, I have a internal SCSI DLT drive - anyone got any idea where I
>> can get an enclosure/power supply for it? I bought it by mistake, don't want to
>> throw it away and my backups now run to 4 x 8mm DAT tapes, which is a bore.[/color]
>
> Hmm ... which interface on the DLT? IIRC you can get them both
> in 50-pin and 68-pin SCSI.[/color]

68 pin.
[color=blue]
> Depending on which Exabyte drive you have, if it is a 50-pin
> SCSI you could possibly put it in the housing which currently holds your
> Exabyte.[/color]

Naah, it's about twice the (physical) size of the Exabyte. (Which name irritates
me, BTW, since they don't hold an exabyte.)

[Useful stuff]
[color=blue]
> I am told that the DLT tapes are particularly fragile. Drop one
> (even in a protective box) and you are likely to strip internal gears.[/color]

Fortunately, I can get them for nothing.
[color=blue]
> Just some thoughts,[/color]

And very useful, too! Thanks.

--
"Be thankful that you have a life, and forsake your vain
and presumptuous desire for a second one."
[email me at huge {at} huge (dot) org <dot> uk]

>>>>> "philo" == philo <philo@privacy.net> writes:

philo> "Raymond Toy" <raymond.toy@ericsson.com> wrote in message
philo> news:sxd8wug9dec.fsf@rtp.ericsson.se...[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>> >>>>> "philo" == philo <philo@privacy.net> writes:[/color]
>>[/color][/color]
philo> The machine was built in 1994 and has a 110mhz CPU
philo> and 224 megs of RAM[color=blue][color=green]
>>[/color][/color]
philo> 224megs of RAM was a lot for those days.
philo> I am just wondering if anyone knows what that machine might
philo> have cost.[color=blue][color=green]
>>[/color][/color]
philo> I recall that a P-1 with 8 megs of RAM back in those days
philo> was about 1600_USD[color=blue][color=green]
>>
>> Don't know about Sparc station 5's, but Sparc 10s and/or 20s went for
>> about $10,000 back then. But I can't remember if they had just one,
>> two, or four CPUs in them, and I don't remember how much memory was
>> included. That was a long time ago when I used those machines.
>>
>> Ray[/color][/color]

philo> Wow, too bad it's only worth $1 now :)

So what? They worked very well, and were quite a bit faster than PCs
of the time. It was a few years before PCs were comparable.

Ray