SCSI adapter question - SUN

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Thread: SCSI adapter question

  1. SCSI adapter question

    Hello,

    I would like to connect a Sun 411 external HD to an Ultra 60 and would
    like to verify this will work before purchasing an adapter.

    If I understand correctly the 411 has a DB50 female connector and the
    Ultra has a DB68 female connector and the 411 cable is DB50 male on
    both ends. As such I'm thinking a DB50(female) to DB68 (male) adapter
    plugged into the Ultra will make this work? I'm seeing some adapters
    that claim to have a "high byte terminator" or others that are
    marketed as a "terminated adapter" is this what I'm looking for? I do
    have a terminator for the 411.

    And finally - Some adapters are listed as HPDB50 or DPDB68 - is this
    the same as the DB50 or DB68?

    Thanks for your input - for some reason I find the various SCSI
    terminology confusing.

  2. Re: SCSI adapter question

    On Dec 4, 10:14 am, Jack Wagner wrote:

    > And finally - Some adapters are listed as HPDB50 or DPDB68 - is this



    Typo - that should read HPDB50 or HPDB68
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


  3. Re: SCSI adapter question

    Jack Wagner writes:
    >I would like to connect a Sun 411 external HD to an Ultra 60 and would
    >like to verify this will work before purchasing an adapter.


    >If I understand correctly the 411 has a DB50 female connector and the
    >Ultra has a DB68 female connector and the 411 cable is DB50 male on
    >both ends. As such I'm thinking a DB50(female) to DB68 (male) adapter
    >plugged into the Ultra will make this work? I'm seeing some adapters
    >that claim to have a "high byte terminator" or others that are
    >marketed as a "terminated adapter" is this what I'm looking for? I do
    >have a terminator for the 411.


    Either a wide to narrow adaptor, or rather than mess with yet another
    thing in the chain, I'd just get a wide to narrow cable.

    I have never ordered from this place, just one of the higher up stores
    that popped up in google..

    http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/scsi_cables.html

    HD68 to HD50 SCSI cable with high-byte termination. $42.50 for 3'.
    (C4030-3PAM-AT).

    THe high-byte termination is in reguard to the changing width of the bus.
    Narrow SCSI (HD50) is 8-bits wide. Wide SCSI (HD68) is 16-bits
    wide. Since the SCSI bus needs to be terminated, this cable (or an adaptor)
    needs to terminate the un-used high 8-bits of the SCSI cable back to
    the SCSI HBA.


    >And finally - Some adapters are listed as HPDB50 or DPDB68 - is this
    >the same as the DB50 or DB68?


    There's no such thing as DB50 or DB68. There's DD50 (double D) that
    was used for the earliest SCSI on SUN connectors. I still have a Sun
    shoebox with its DD50 cable. The high-density SCSI connectors are
    called HD50 or HD68. Some people see a D type connector on a cable and
    call everything DBxx whereas DB25 is the only valid one.

    >Thanks for your input - for some reason I find the various SCSI
    >terminology confusing.


    Just terminology to learn. Wait until you get to the differences in
    LVD and HVD.. The site I referenced appears to have a pretty good
    set of correct information.



  4. Re: SCSI adapter question

    On Dec 4, 10:39 am, Doug McIntyre wrote:
    > Jack Wagner writes:
    >
    > >I would like to connect a Sun 411 external HD to an Ultra 60 and would
    > >like to verify this will work before purchasing an adapter.
    > >If I understand correctly the 411 has a DB50 female connector and the
    > >Ultra has a DB68 female connector and the 411 cable is DB50 male on
    > >both ends. As such I'm thinking a DB50(female) to DB68 (male) adapter
    > >plugged into the Ultra will make this work? I'm seeing some adapters
    > >that claim to have a "high byte terminator" or others that are
    > >marketed as a "terminated adapter" is this what I'm looking for? I do
    > >have a terminator for the 411.

    >
    > Either a wide to narrow adaptor, or rather than mess with yet another
    > thing in the chain, I'd just get a wide to narrow cable.
    >
    > I have never ordered from this place, just one of the higher up stores
    > that popped up in google..
    >
    > http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/scsi_cables.html
    >
    > HD68 to HD50 SCSI cable with high-byte termination. $42.50 for 3'.
    > (C4030-3PAM-AT).
    >
    > THe high-byte termination is in reguard to the changing width of the bus.
    > Narrow SCSI (HD50) is 8-bits wide. Wide SCSI (HD68) is 16-bits
    > wide. Since the SCSI bus needs to be terminated, this cable (or an adaptor)
    > needs to terminate the un-used high 8-bits of the SCSI cable back to
    > the SCSI HBA.
    >
    > >And finally - Some adapters are listed as HPDB50 or DPDB68 - is this
    > >the same as the DB50 or DB68?

    >
    > There's no such thing as DB50 or DB68. There's DD50 (double D) that
    > was used for the earliest SCSI on SUN connectors. I still have a Sun
    > shoebox with its DD50 cable. The high-density SCSI connectors are
    > called HD50 or HD68. Some people see a D type connector on a cable and
    > call everything DBxx whereas DB25 is the only valid one.


    Thanks for the clarification. I think I'll have a look at ebay for a
    cable.

  5. Re: SCSI adapter question

    On Dec 4, 11:00 am, Jack Wagner wrote:

    >
    > Thanks for the clarification. I think I'll have a look at ebay for a
    > cable.


    As a final follow-up I found a 3 FT. cable (new) from an ebay store
    for $8.99!

  6. Re: SCSI adapter question

    Jack Wagner wrote:
    > On Dec 4, 11:00 am, Jack Wagner wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> Thanks for the clarification. I think I'll have a look at ebay for a
    >> cable.

    >
    > As a final follow-up I found a 3 FT. cable (new) from an ebay store
    > for $8.99!


    was shipping $34.99 + insurance + $8 handling?

    just kidding.



  7. Re: SCSI adapter question

    On Dec 4, 12:14 pm, Cydrome Leader wrote:
    > Jack Wagner wrote:
    >
    > > On Dec 4, 11:00 am, Jack Wagner wrote:

    >
    > >> Thanks for the clarification. I think I'll have a look at ebay for a
    > >> cable.

    >
    > > As a final follow-up I found a 3 FT. cable (new) from an ebay store
    > > for $8.99!

    >
    > was shipping $34.99 + insurance + $8 handling?
    >
    > just kidding.


    Aye - I hate people who try to do that. Actually shipping was $5.99
    (USPS) and it's shipping from one state over so I'll likely see it in
    a couple days. A fair deal by all accounts.

  8. Re: SCSI adapter question

    On 2007-12-04, Jack Wagner wrote:
    > Hello,
    >
    > I would like to connect a Sun 411 external HD to an Ultra 60 and would
    > like to verify this will work before purchasing an adapter.
    >
    > If I understand correctly the 411 has a DB50 female connector and the
    > Ultra has a DB68 female connector and the 411 cable is DB50 male on
    > both ends. As such I'm thinking a DB50(female) to DB68 (male) adapter


    Hmm ... those connector names are wrong -- but there are people
    calling almost any connector computer related "DB" -- even though they
    aren't. The "DB" gives the shell size of the D style connector with
    round pins. DB-25 in particular. Other pin counts in other shell sizes
    have other second letters -- the DD-50 for example.

    However -- these connectors are a totally different series, not
    the 'D' series at all. The 50-pin connector is often called just the
    "SCSI-II connector", though I think that is wrong, too. :-) What you are
    looking at are the "HD-50" and HD-68" connectors.

    > plugged into the Ultra will make this work? I'm seeing some adapters
    > that claim to have a "high byte terminator" or others that are
    > marketed as a "terminated adapter" is this what I'm looking for? I do
    > have a terminator for the 411.


    The "high byte terminator" is needed when transitioning from a
    68-pin device to a 50-pin device -- if it is not provided by the device
    itself. For example, the Unipack and Multipack housings (the Unipack is
    the 68-pin equivalent of your 411) are designed to automatically
    terminate either both halves of the SCSI, or just the high byte if
    either there is nothing connected beyond the box or if there is a 68-pin
    to 50-pin cable. (The latter case handles the high byte termination,
    while whatever is connected to the 50-pin end of the cable should take
    care of terminating the low byte. In the case of the 411, you will want
    an external terminator on the other connector.

    However -- the Ultra-60's 68-pin connector on the back connects
    to no drives inside the box. It is a totally separate SCSI bus from the
    one used inside the box for the two disk drives and the CD-ROM drive.

    So -- as long as what you are connecting to it is only a 50-pin
    device (or even a chain of them) you don't need to worry about the high
    byte. Just get a 68-pin to 50-pin SCSI cable.

    A quick eBay search finds auction 230199136497 as the first
    offering such a cable. This one is a 12-foot one, and you probably want
    a shorter one. Auction 120190305633 contains a 3-foot one which is
    probably a better bet.

    No idea what the vendors
    are like. Avoid any which call themselves "VHDCI 68 pin" as those won't
    fit the connector which you have.

    > And finally - Some adapters are listed as HPDB50 or DPDB68 - is this
    > the same as the DB50 or DB68?


    No idea -- since the DB50 and DB68 are undefined and may be
    totally unsuitable anyway. The first thing I found searching on:

    SCSI cable DB50

    is actually the D*D*50 -- a very old SCSI cable used in the Sun-3
    machines. Anything later uses the HD-50 or HD-68 -- or on PCI cards,
    the VHDCI-68.

    > Thanks for your input - for some reason I find the various SCSI
    > terminology confusing.


    It is made worse by the incorrect nomenclature used by the eBay
    vendors.

    BTW -- when you get some 68-pin devices to add to your
    collection, make your 50-pin the last thing in the chain. If you put it
    in the middle of the chain, you will confuse the system with later
    devices saying "I'm a wide device" through the 50 pin connector, after
    which the system will try to talk to it wide, and fail, and you'll have
    lots of retires before it falls back to narrow.

    And drives which are 68-pin or 80-pin (like the SCA drives
    inside the system box) will be *much* faster than the 50-pin devices, so
    you will proably want to move to the wider devices as soon as possible.
    (also -- you can get much more capacity in the 68-pin drives than in the
    50-pin drives. I think that my largest 50-pin drive is only 4GB, and
    I've got 68-pin drives up to 50 GB, and I know that even larger are
    available.

    Good Luck,
    DoN.

    --
    Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
    (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
    --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

  9. Re: SCSI adapter question

    On 2007-12-04, Doug McIntyre wrote:
    > Jack Wagner writes:


    [ ... ]

    >>And finally - Some adapters are listed as HPDB50 or DPDB68 - is this
    >>the same as the DB50 or DB68?

    >
    > There's no such thing as DB50 or DB68. There's DD50 (double D) that
    > was used for the earliest SCSI on SUN connectors. I still have a Sun
    > shoebox with its DD50 cable. The high-density SCSI connectors are
    > called HD50 or HD68. Some people see a D type connector on a cable and
    > call everything DBxx whereas DB25 is the only valid one.


    Close -- but there *is* such a thing as a DB50. The same D
    sized shell as the DB-25, but three rows of fifty very tiny pins. It is
    quite uncommon, but I do have some. It is sort of related to the 15-pin
    connector used for VGA monitor cables -- but longer.

    >>Thanks for your input - for some reason I find the various SCSI
    >>terminology confusing.

    >
    > Just terminology to learn. Wait until you get to the differences in
    > LVD and HVD..


    :-)

    Good Luck,
    DoN.

    --
    Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
    (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
    --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

  10. Re: SCSI adapter question

    On Dec 4, 11:33 pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
    > On 2007-12-04, Jack Wagner wrote:
    >
    > > Hello,

    >
    > > I would like to connect a Sun 411 external HD to an Ultra 60 and would
    > > like to verify this will work before purchasing an adapter.

    >
    > > If I understand correctly the 411 has a DB50 female connector and the
    > > Ultra has a DB68 female connector and the 411 cable is DB50 male on
    > > both ends. As such I'm thinking a DB50(female) to DB68 (male) adapter

    >
    > Hmm ... those connector names are wrong -- but there are people
    > calling almost any connector computer related "DB" -- even though they
    > aren't. The "DB" gives the shell size of the D style connector with
    > round pins. DB-25 in particular. Other pin counts in other shell sizes
    > have other second letters -- the DD-50 for example.
    >
    > However -- these connectors are a totally different series, not
    > the 'D' series at all. The 50-pin connector is often called just the
    > "SCSI-II connector", though I think that is wrong, too. :-) What you are
    > looking at are the "HD-50" and HD-68" connectors.


    Thanks, yes - that was a mistake on my part.


    > However -- the Ultra-60's 68-pin connector on the back connects
    > to no drives inside the box. It is a totally separate SCSI bus from the
    > one used inside the box for the two disk drives and the CD-ROM drive.
    >
    > So -- as long as what you are connecting to it is only a 50-pin
    > device (or even a chain of them) you don't need to worry about the high
    > byte. Just get a 68-pin to 50-pin SCSI cable.


    Thanks for verifying that - that was more or less my understanding
    after doing more research yesterday. The cable I bought (should be
    here tomorrow) is a standard HD68 to HD50 cable. I figured if it
    didn't work I was only out 14 dollars so not a big deal.

    > A quick eBay search finds auction 230199136497 as the first
    > offering such a cable. This one is a 12-foot one, and you probably want
    > a shorter one. Auction 120190305633 contains a 3-foot one which is
    > probably a better bet.
    >
    > No idea what the vendors
    > are like. Avoid any which call themselves "VHDCI 68 pin" as those won't
    > fit the connector which you have.
    >
    > > And finally - Some adapters are listed as HPDB50 or DPDB68 - is this
    > > the same as the DB50 or DB68?

    >
    > No idea -- since the DB50 and DB68 are undefined and may be
    > totally unsuitable anyway. The first thing I found searching on:
    >
    > SCSI cable DB50
    >
    > is actually the D*D*50 -- a very old SCSI cable used in the Sun-3
    > machines. Anything later uses the HD-50 or HD-68 -- or on PCI cards,
    > the VHDCI-68.


    I've seen some sites that refer to the HPDB as "half pitch" - not sure
    what that's supposed to mean but it looks like the pictures of all the
    HD connectors. Here's a site from a random google search using the
    half pitch terminology:

    http://www.l-com.com/productfamily.aspx?id=1068

    > > Thanks for your input - for some reason I find the various SCSI
    > > terminology confusing.

    >
    > It is made worse by the incorrect nomenclature used by the eBay
    > vendors.
    >
    > BTW -- when you get some 68-pin devices to add to your
    > collection, make your 50-pin the last thing in the chain. If you put it
    > in the middle of the chain, you will confuse the system with later
    > devices saying "I'm a wide device" through the 50 pin connector, after
    > which the system will try to talk to it wide, and fail, and you'll have
    > lots of retires before it falls back to narrow.
    >
    > And drives which are 68-pin or 80-pin (like the SCA drives
    > inside the system box) will be *much* faster than the 50-pin devices, so
    > you will proably want to move to the wider devices as soon as possible.
    > (also -- you can get much more capacity in the 68-pin drives than in the
    > 50-pin drives. I think that my largest 50-pin drive is only 4GB, and
    > I've got 68-pin drives up to 50 GB, and I know that even larger are
    > available.


    I've got an 18.2G SCA drive on the way - the first one I bought was
    bad. The 411 works great with my SparcServer20 - I'm not sure I'll use
    it on the Ultra 60 all the time but I did want to see if I could hook
    it up and install an OS - at least until I can get a functioning
    internal drive. Sadly the Ultra 60 doesn't have a extra plug on the
    back like the SS20 so it's not quite as handy to have an external
    device attached to it.

    Speaking of drives - I've had great luck getting older Unix/Sun gear
    from ebay - the recent hard drive was the first thing I've ever bought
    that didn't work, but I'm wondering if there is a reputable site that
    sells used hard drives at a *reasonable* price? I wouldn't mind paying
    a few more bucks if it means not having to roll the ebay dice for some
    things.

  11. Re: SCSI adapter question

    On 2007-12-05, Jack Wagner wrote:
    > On Dec 4, 11:33 pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
    >> On 2007-12-04, Jack Wagner wrote:


    [ ... ]

    >> However -- these connectors are a totally different series, not
    >> the 'D' series at all. The 50-pin connector is often called just the
    >> "SCSI-II connector", though I think that is wrong, too. :-) What you are
    >> looking at are the "HD-50" and HD-68" connectors.

    >
    > Thanks, yes - that was a mistake on my part.


    O.K. At least that is straightened out.

    [ ... ]

    >> So -- as long as what you are connecting to it is only a 50-pin
    >> device (or even a chain of them) you don't need to worry about the high
    >> byte. Just get a 68-pin to 50-pin SCSI cable.

    >
    > Thanks for verifying that - that was more or less my understanding
    > after doing more research yesterday. The cable I bought (should be
    > here tomorrow) is a standard HD68 to HD50 cable. I figured if it
    > didn't work I was only out 14 dollars so not a big deal.


    O.K. It should work without problems -- at least until you
    start mixing in the 68-pin devices as well. Then the high-byte
    termination will become important, as will the sequence of the drives on
    the cable.

    [ ... ]

    >> is actually the D*D*50 -- a very old SCSI cable used in the Sun-3
    >> machines. Anything later uses the HD-50 or HD-68 -- or on PCI cards,
    >> the VHDCI-68.

    >
    > I've seen some sites that refer to the HPDB as "half pitch" - not sure
    > what that's supposed to mean but it looks like the pictures of all the
    > HD connectors. Here's a site from a random google search using the
    > half pitch terminology:


    I think that the "half pitch" indicates that the pins are on
    0.050" steps, instead of the 0.100" that would come from the standard
    older ribbon cable. This "half pitch" applies to the standard HD
    connectors.

    > http://www.l-com.com/productfamily.aspx?id=1068


    Yep -- standard HD connectors.

    [ ... ]

    >> And drives which are 68-pin or 80-pin (like the SCA drives
    >> inside the system box) will be *much* faster than the 50-pin devices, so
    >> you will proably want to move to the wider devices as soon as possible.
    >> (also -- you can get much more capacity in the 68-pin drives than in the
    >> 50-pin drives. I think that my largest 50-pin drive is only 4GB, and
    >> I've got 68-pin drives up to 50 GB, and I know that even larger are
    >> available.

    >
    > I've got an 18.2G SCA drive on the way - the first one I bought was
    > bad. The 411 works great with my SparcServer20 - I'm not sure I'll use
    > it on the Ultra 60 all the time but I did want to see if I could hook
    > it up and install an OS - at least until I can get a functioning
    > internal drive.


    O.K. I didn't realize that you didn't have any internal drives.
    That's like what I did at first with the Sun Fire 280R. It used Fibre
    Channel drives internally, and there were none with it. So I installed
    the OS (Solaris 10) in a Multipack full of six 9GB drives.

    Note that I tend to expand a bit over the minimum for a full
    install, so I have a 36 GB drive and an 18 GB drive in my Ultra-60 --
    and even more in the Sun Blade 1000s (which also use Fibre Channel
    drives). FWIW -- here is the Ultra-60 not counting the NFS-mounted home
    directories, and with the pseudo-devices trimmed out of the list.

    ================================================== ====================
    Filesystem size used avail capacity Mounted on
    /dev/dsk/c0t0d0s0 2.0G 161M 1.7G 9% /
    /dev/dsk/c0t0d0s3 3.8G 2.0G 1.9G 52% /var
    /dev/dsk/c0t0d0s4 5.9G 4.1G 1.7G 71% /usr
    /dev/dsk/c0t0d0s5 3.9G 3.2G 700M 83% /opt
    /dev/dsk/c0t0d0s6 2.0G 797M 1.1G 41% /usr/openwin
    /dev/dsk/c0t0d0s7 7.9G 3.1G 4.7G 40% /usr/local
    /dev/dsk/c0t1d0s6 17G 7.1G 9.3G 44% /local-workplace
    ================================================== ====================

    Of course /dev/dsk/c0t0d0s1 is the swap space -- which is at
    least 2GB and I think that I made it 4GB for the Ultra-60, since I was
    using it for editing images with "the GIMP", which can be quite memory
    hungry. That has now been moved to one of the Sun Blade 1000s.

    I've added a lot of things in /usr/local as you can see -- and lots of
    room for more in most places. /local-workplace is where the source code
    lives for various things which I have installed from source. You'll
    probably want to make /opt and /var larger than the defaults, since
    things tend to grow there fairly quickly.

    So -- I consider two 18 GB drives the minimum, and a 36 GB plus
    an 18 GB to be better.

    > Sadly the Ultra 60 doesn't have a extra plug on the
    > back like the SS20 so it's not quite as handy to have an external
    > device attached to it.


    You mean the switched power plug? That is (I think) intended to
    be used for the monitor, not extra drives. But you don't want to put
    too much of a load on it -- such as a pair of Multipacks.

    > Speaking of drives - I've had great luck getting older Unix/Sun gear
    > from ebay - the recent hard drive was the first thing I've ever bought
    > that didn't work, but I'm wondering if there is a reputable site that
    > sells used hard drives at a *reasonable* price? I wouldn't mind paying
    > a few more bucks if it means not having to roll the ebay dice for some
    > things.


    I'm not sure that I can specify a reliable source. Most of the
    time I have good luck -- but occasionally not. Of the last five SCA
    drives, two worked, and one (which was not *promised* to work) at least
    gave me an additional spud.

    The two which worked were half of a 4-drive grouping -- and it
    took me too long to get back to them after testing them all, so it was
    too late to return the bad ones.

    Note, BTW, that any drives which have been used in a RAID
    assembly will have an inaccessible partition which you can't change --
    unless you know to use the "-e" (expert mode) to format and to select
    the proper choice of the two offered when you are labeling the disks.
    Of course, a new RAID system (such as the zfs which comes with Solaris
    10 these days) will add the special partition back in when it needs to. :-)

    Good Luck,
    DoN.

    --
    Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
    (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
    --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

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