More Bad news - SUN

This is a discussion on More Bad news - SUN ; Linux to run "fastest supercomputer in U.S." SuSE Linux announced that Cray Inc. has selected its Linux distribution to drive "key aspects" of the U.S. Department of Energy's new massively parallel processing (MPP) supercomputer called Red Storm, which will be ...

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  1. More Bad news

    Linux to run "fastest supercomputer in U.S."

    SuSE Linux announced that Cray Inc. has selected its Linux distribution to drive
    "key aspects" of the U.S. Department of Energy's new massively parallel processing
    (MPP) supercomputer called Red Storm, which will be installed at Sandia National
    Laboratories. When completed, Red Storm will be the fastest supercomputer in the
    U.S., SuSE and Cray said. The new supercomputer, which is expected to become
    operational by the end of 2004, will be used for computer simulations of the U.S.
    nuclear stockpile and other applications.

    Red Storm will be "based on AMD Opteron processors featuring HyperTransport
    technology in conjunction with Red Storm's high-bandwidth, low-latency internal
    switching architecture," and will make use of "SuSE Linux Enterprise Server," the
    announcement said.


    Notice what processor it will be based on ? This is the sort of work which at one
    time was restricted to the UltraSparc providing Sun with a multi-million dollar
    income, but both that processor family and slowlaris are about to come under
    another intensive fight for survival because of AMD's ultra low cost 64-bit
    solution.


  2. Re: More Bad news

    James smyth wrote:
    > Linux to run "fastest supercomputer in U.S."
    >
    > SuSE Linux announced that Cray Inc. has selected its Linux distribution to drive
    > "key aspects" of the U.S. Department of Energy's new massively parallel processing
    > (MPP) supercomputer called Red Storm, which will be installed at Sandia National
    > Laboratories. When completed, Red Storm will be the fastest supercomputer in the
    > U.S., SuSE and Cray said. The new supercomputer, which is expected to become
    > operational by the end of 2004, will be used for computer simulations of the U.S.
    > nuclear stockpile and other applications.
    >
    > Red Storm will be "based on AMD Opteron processors featuring HyperTransport
    > technology in conjunction with Red Storm's high-bandwidth, low-latency internal
    > switching architecture," and will make use of "SuSE Linux Enterprise Server," the
    > announcement said.


    A linux HPC cluster is not A SuperComputer , It is lots of small computers in a
    cluster , Linux cant drive a supercomputer since the linux kernel is not
    multithreaded enough to scale to more than a few processors in the same machine.


    --
    ================================================== ======
    Lars Tunkrans
    smtp: lars dot tunkrans at bredband dot net
    --------------------------------------------------------


  3. Re: More Bad news

    On Thu, 3 Jul 2003, Lars Tunkrans wrote:

    > A linux HPC cluster is not A SuperComputer , It is lots of small
    > computers in a cluster , Linux cant drive a supercomputer since the
    > linux kernel is not multithreaded enough to scale to more than a few
    > processors in the same machine.


    Why are we even discussing Linux on Sun newsgroups?

    --
    http://www.munted.org.uk - updated 2003/07/03

    Telephone: A clever device by which two people in different places can
    mutually admire each other's total inability to say anything coherent

  4. Re: More Bad news

    In comp.unix.solaris James smyth wrote:
    > Linux to run "fastest supercomputer in U.S."


    > SuSE Linux announced that Cray Inc. has selected its Linux distribution to drive
    > "key aspects" of the U.S. Department of Energy's new massively parallel processing
    > (MPP) supercomputer called Red Storm, which will be installed at Sandia National
    > Laboratories. When completed, Red Storm will be the fastest supercomputer in the
    > U.S., SuSE and Cray said. The new supercomputer, which is expected to become
    > operational by the end of 2004, will be used for computer simulations of the U.S.
    > nuclear stockpile and other applications.


    > Red Storm will be "based on AMD Opteron processors featuring HyperTransport
    > technology in conjunction with Red Storm's high-bandwidth, low-latency internal
    > switching architecture," and will make use of "SuSE Linux Enterprise Server," the
    > announcement said.



    > Notice what processor it will be based on ? This is the sort of work which at one
    > time was restricted to the UltraSparc providing Sun with a multi-million dollar
    > income, but both that processor family and slowlaris are about to come under
    > another intensive fight for survival because of AMD's ultra low cost 64-bit
    > solution.


    You're making it sound as if Sun is losing any significant sales
    because of this. Supercomputers has never been their primary concern.
    Sun builds scalable -business- systems and it is business users who
    provide the biggest bulk of their income. Tell me, would you run your
    critical business application on this Cray Linux cluster or a Sun Fire
    system?


    --
    Akop Pogosian

    This space has been accidentally left blank.

  5. Re: More Bad news

    Alex Buell wrote:

    > Why are we even discussing Linux on Sun newsgroups?


    Beats me, its such a crock I wouldn't recommend it to my worst enemy.
    Perhaps we should be posting to the Lunix advocacy newsgroups under a
    pseudonym (like James Smyth perhaps) and say how much we love to
    froterise our Lunix PCs because we can't pick up women and dogs and
    sheep won't come anywhere near us (I understand Torvalds has this
    problem).

    -am © 2003

  6. Re: More Bad news

    > > Why are we even discussing Linux on Sun newsgroups?
    >
    > Beats me, its such a crock I wouldn't recommend it to my worst enemy.
    > Perhaps we should be posting to the Lunix advocacy newsgroups under a
    > pseudonym (like James Smyth perhaps) and say how much we love to
    > froterise our Lunix PCs because we can't pick up women and dogs and
    > sheep won't come anywhere near us (I understand Torvalds has this
    > problem).


    http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php...03-06-30&res=l

    Topical, funny, and SFW.

    And indeed, good sigmonster.

    --
    Steven Hill

    ``Non omne quod nitet aurum est''


  7. Re: More Bad news

    Anthony Mandic wrote:

    > Alex Buell wrote:
    >
    >> Why are we even discussing Linux on Sun newsgroups?

    >
    > Beats me, its such a crock I wouldn't recommend it to my worst enemy.


    Not trolling - but Sun sell Linux. On their own hardware. The LX50, V60x,
    V65x - I've had them offering to sell it to me on SPARC if it would swing a
    sale.

    I do have to wonder if you've ever actually tried *using* Linux, and if so
    if you could be bothered coming up to speed on its way of working, or if
    you've just looked at it, thought "PeeCeeYouNicks" and gone "yuk". I
    suspect the latter.

    It may not support Sparc as well as Solaris, but it does what it needs to
    for some people. Since Sun introduced the new Solaris licensing model a lot
    of people with relatively small boxes (Ultra 2, E450) can no longer easily
    afford to run Solaris. Linux and the BSDs provide a UNIX-a-like OS that
    will work on this hardware and work quite well.

    And like it or not, Linux *is* growing and it's not taking away sales of
    Microsoft products. It's taking nibbles out of the commercial UNIX market
    share.

    The single biggest Linux installation in "live" service that I heard of
    recently was Telia putting in Linux on IBM zSeries to replace a few hundred
    SPARC systems. They reckon it was worth it. This is not a one off either,
    this is running on hardware that anybody can buy if they have the cash.

    The major problem that Sun is having just now is that its hardware quality
    is substantially worse than it used to be and it keeps shooting itself in
    the foot. I was about to buy several dozen V240s only to be told that they
    are now on indefinite shipping hold due to a problem with the onboard
    ethernet.

    How the hell does a box get to within 2 days of shipping without a fault
    like that being picked up?

    So, I'm probably off to buy the V65x running Linux.

    Why linux rather than Solaris x86? Well, that would be because Sun over many
    years has sent a very strong message to all the ISVs in the market that
    they want Solaris x86 to die, and the ISVs correspondingly haven't been
    developing software for Solaris x86. They have been developing it for
    Linux.

    Of course, there's no reason to stick with Sun if I go this way, I can
    almost certainly get the equivalent Dell or HP box for less, so why not go
    that way?

    P.



  8. Re: More Bad news

    Steven Hill wrote:

    > http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php...03-06-30&res=l
    >
    > Topical, funny, and SFW.


    That was almost exactly as I pictured it!

    -am © 2003

  9. Re: More Bad news

    Paul S Brown wrote:
    >
    > Anthony Mandic wrote:
    >
    > > Beats me, its such a crock I wouldn't recommend it to my worst enemy.

    >
    > Not trolling - but Sun sell Linux.


    I know. Not sure who's buying it though. I understand Solaris x86
    is outselling it.

    > I do have to wonder if you've ever actually tried *using* Linux,


    Funny you should ask.

    > and if so
    > if you could be bothered coming up to speed on its way of working, or if
    > you've just looked at it, thought "PeeCeeYouNicks" and gone "yuk". I
    > suspect the latter.


    You would suspect wrong. At about this time in 2000 I started a
    short contract that ended up lasting 1 year. They were a PC shop
    that wanted a DBA and were considering moving to Unix. I happened
    to come along but in the time I was there they stayed on NT.
    At least one of programmers there had a clue. I told them I didn't
    work with Windows. I was offered a choice of Solaris x86 (the
    programmer actually bought it) or Linux. Since I knew Solaris
    like the back of my hand I thought it might be an idea to try
    Lunix out. Big mistake. It was a year of hell. I could not believe
    how bad it was on the desktop. I'll spare everyone the details but
    suffice it to say it should be avoided.

    > The major problem that Sun is having just now is that its hardware quality
    > is substantially worse than it used to be and it keeps shooting itself in
    > the foot. I was about to buy several dozen V240s only to be told that they
    > are now on indefinite shipping hold due to a problem with the onboard
    > ethernet.
    >
    > How the hell does a box get to within 2 days of shipping without a fault
    > like that being picked up?


    PC grade components. What else can you expect.

    > So, I'm probably off to buy the V65x running Linux.


    Take my advice and put Solaris x86 on it or avoid the systems with
    PC components.

    > Why linux rather than Solaris x86? Well, that would be because Sun over many
    > years has sent a very strong message to all the ISVs in the market that
    > they want Solaris x86 to die, and the ISVs correspondingly haven't been
    > developing software for Solaris x86. They have been developing it for
    > Linux.


    Funny, I haven't heard that message. Perhaps you haven't observed
    the Solaris x86 turn around either.

    > Of course, there's no reason to stick with Sun if I go this way, I can
    > almost certainly get the equivalent Dell or HP box for less, so why not go
    > that way?


    Yes, you could but what would you run on them? Windows? Oh, please.
    Lunix? You'd have to be desperate. Solaris x86? Only if you want a
    rock solid OS.

    -am © 2003

  10. Re: More Bad news

    In article <3F050E4E.490A2DA5@hotmail.com>, Anthony Mandic
    writes
    >Alex Buell wrote:
    >
    >> Why are we even discussing Linux on Sun newsgroups?

    >
    > Beats me, its such a crock I wouldn't recommend it to my worst enemy.
    > Perhaps we should be posting to the Lunix advocacy newsgroups under a
    > pseudonym (like James Smyth perhaps) and say how much we love to
    > froterise our Lunix PCs because we can't pick up women and dogs and
    > sheep won't come anywhere near us (I understand Torvalds has this
    > problem).
    >
    >-am © 2003


    Miaow... Hiss Hiss... Scratch Scratch..!

    I've recommended linux to several of my worst enemies! Many of whom
    have since gone quite mad! (serves them right for asking/listening).

    (
    I quite like the OS actually. But I do still run solaris on a couple
    of the suns here. I use linux for some of the server-systems. Although
    I have noticed a tendancy towards instability compared to solaris.
    For me, Linux is useful, Like BSD. Because it runs on many different
    platforms. I use DEC / VAX Sun and PC hardware.
    )

    Anyway, I've never had any problems with sheep. And if you're calling
    my girlfriend a dog, I'll get her to **** in your boots!

    All The Best.
    --
    Tim Bluck

  11. Re: More Bad news

    Tim Bluck wrote:

    > >> Why are we even discussing Linux on Sun newsgroups?

    > >
    > > Beats me, its such a crock I wouldn't recommend it to my worst enemy.

    ....
    > I've recommended linux to several of my worst enemies! Many of whom
    > have since gone quite mad! (serves them right for asking/listening).


    I believe in being humane. Better to let them use Windows and
    end it all quickly rather than torture them slowly with Lunix.
    No one deserves that sort of punishment (except perhaps Bill
    Gates).

    > I quite like the OS actually. But I do still run solaris on a couple
    > of the suns here. I use linux for some of the server-systems. Although
    > I have noticed a tendancy towards instability compared to solaris.


    Yep.

    > Anyway, I've never had any problems with sheep. And if you're calling
    > my girlfriend a dog, I'll get her to **** in your boots!


    I hear she does it to you frequently. Maybe one day you'll
    get around to toilet training her.

    -am © 2003

  12. Re: More Bad news

    On Fri, 4 Jul 2003, Paul S Brown wrote:

    > How the hell does a box get to within 2 days of shipping without a fault
    > like that being picked up?


    Not enough Beta testers. I keep askiing Sun, but they keep
    ignoring my requests... :-(

    --
    Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA

    President,
    Rite Online Inc.

    Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638
    URL: http://www.rite-online.net


  13. Re: More Bad news

    Rich Teer writes in comp.sys.sun.misc:
    |On Fri, 4 Jul 2003, Paul S Brown wrote:
    |
    |> How the hell does a box get to within 2 days of shipping without a fault
    |> like that being picked up?
    |
    |Not enough Beta testers. I keep askiing Sun, but they keep
    |ignoring my requests... :-(

    Think of it as encouraging you to work on your book instead of spending
    time playing with beta hardware. 8-)

    --
    __________________________________________________ ______________________
    Alan Coopersmith alanc@alum.calberkeley.org
    http://www.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU/~alanc/ aka: Alan.Coopersmith@Sun.COM
    Working for, but definitely not speaking for, Sun Microsystems, Inc.

  14. Re: More Bad news


    "Anthony Mandic" wrote in message
    news:3F058273.BAB22957@hotmail.com...
    > Paul S Brown wrote:
    >
    > > Odd. Sounds like you tried Redhat 5.1.

    >
    > I don't recall the version. I suspect it was the latest for the
    > time.
    >
    > > I've been using Linux since 1992 (yes
    > > - 0.98 versions) and not had any real problems with it. It's always amazed
    > > me how limited the utilities that come with Solaris are in comparison, and
    > > just how slow SPARC framebuffers are in comparison to the much cheaper PC
    > > ones when running X.

    >
    > X was the biggest problem for me. For some strange reason it
    > died frequently. Gnome was an unmitigated disaster. Enlightenment
    > was nice as far as eye candy went.


    All you've advertised is that your as thick as ****, I don't see anything bad
    about Linux there.


  15. Re: More Bad news


    "Rich Teer" wrote in message
    news:Pine.GSO.4.44.0307041029430.3357-100000@zaphod.rite-group.com...
    > On Fri, 4 Jul 2003, Paul S Brown wrote:
    >
    > > How the hell does a box get to within 2 days of shipping without a fault
    > > like that being picked up?

    >
    > Not enough Beta testers. I keep askiing Sun, but they keep
    > ignoring my requests... :-(


    Those bills just keep flooding in, don't they Ritchie ?

    >
    > --
    > Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA
    >
    > Unemployed President,
    > ****e Online Inc.
    >
    > Voice: +1 (250) 979-1666
    > URL: http://www./****e-online.net
    >



  16. Re: More Bad news

    James smyth wrote:

    > All you've advertised is that your as thick as ****, I don't see anything bad
    > about Linux there.


    Since you've already established your credentials in this regard,
    thickhead, I think this just about sums up your knowledge (or
    lack thereof).

    -am © 2003

  17. Re: More Bad news

    Anthony Mandic wrote in message news:<3F056636.FFB51BF3@hotmail.com>...
    > Paul S Brown wrote:


    > > So, I'm probably off to buy the V65x running Linux.

    >
    > Take my advice and put Solaris x86 on it or avoid the systems with
    > PC components.


    I actually looked into doing that for a project, because the price
    isn't bad.
    But when I looked at the section titled "supported operating systems",
    my first thought was:

    "I guess if I want to run a real operating system on it, I must use
    W2K",

    because as of now, it doesn't run anything enterprise-class (Solaris 9
    x86, RHAS, SLES, UL) only some desktop-redhat crap (isn't RH 7.3 EOL
    anyway ?).
    Of course, SLES, RHAS might actually have run - but as Solaris didn't,
    the point of buying this server (having a certified platform for
    Solaris x86) went away almost instantly.
    I only hope, NFS on SLES is better than the general reputation on NFS
    on Linux....


    > > Why linux rather than Solaris x86? Well, that would be because Sun over many
    > > years has sent a very strong message to all the ISVs in the market that
    > > they want Solaris x86 to die, and the ISVs correspondingly haven't been
    > > developing software for Solaris x86. They have been developing it for
    > > Linux.

    >
    > Funny, I haven't heard that message. Perhaps you haven't observed
    > the Solaris x86 turn around either.



    So didn't ISVs.
    Lotus killed Notes for Solaris X86 when they started the Linux port.
    Very few companies have the willingness and resources to support yet
    another OS on the X86-platform.
    And Notes was the only commercial application of larger significance
    for this platform that I ever heard of.



    > > Of course, there's no reason to stick with Sun if I go this way, I can
    > > almost certainly get the equivalent Dell or HP box for less, so why not go
    > > that way?


    The price difference is not that big, IMHO.
    (May depend on how much discount you get, admittedly)

    > Yes, you could but what would you run on them? Windows? Oh, please.
    > Lunix? You'd have to be desperate.


    Enterprising is a more accurate description. See the list of supported
    platforms.

    > Solaris x86? Only if you want a
    > rock solid OS.


    I'd boot up FreeBSD and if it found the hardware, chances are good
    that it would also run flawlessly.
    And you can run most linux-software, too.




    cheers,
    Rainer

  18. Re: More Bad news

    Paul S Brown wrote:
    > Hybrid IRC - Works well on Linux, Solaris has major limitations which means
    > that it is recommended not to run Hybrid on this platform


    Interesting. Not so long ago I have seen recommendations
    not to run ircd on Linux, only Solaris or FreeBSD.

    What major limitations you are speaking of?

    p.

    --
    Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his
    heart he dreams himself your master. -- Commissioner Pravin Lal
    http://nerdquiz.sgh.waw.pl/ -- polska wersja quizu dla nerdów

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