T1000 = Insanely noisely - SUN

This is a discussion on T1000 = Insanely noisely - SUN ; You know, I thought that nothing could be louder than the Dell Poweredge 1850. The T1000 makes it seem like the Poweredge is turned off. And before someone says "it's designed to be in a server area", let me add ...

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Thread: T1000 = Insanely noisely

  1. T1000 = Insanely noisely


    You know, I thought that nothing could be louder
    than the Dell Poweredge 1850. The T1000 makes
    it seem like the Poweredge is turned off. And before
    someone says "it's designed to be in a server area",
    let me add that if you put a bunch of these things in
    a rack, we'd be talking mandatory OSHA hearing
    protection required, if not being tagged an EPA
    superfund site. It's a good machine, but not
    NEARLY powerful enough to justify the noise.

    But enough ranting. What I wanted to ask was
    whether anyone had tried to replace the fans
    on the T1000 with quieter aftermarket ones? Or
    found some other way to quiet these things down.
    Thanks.

    -P


  2. Re: T1000 = Insanely noisely

    On 6 Apr., 13:56, post2goo...@yahoo.com wrote:
    > You know, I thought that nothing could be louder
    > than the Dell Poweredge 1850. The T1000 makes
    > it seem like the Poweredge is turned off. And before
    > someone says "it's designed to be in a server area",
    > let me add that if you put a bunch of these things in
    > a rack, we'd be talking mandatory OSHA hearing
    > protection required, if not being tagged an EPA
    > superfund site. It's a good machine, but not
    > NEARLY powerful enough to justify the noise.
    >
    > But enough ranting. What I wanted to ask was
    > whether anyone had tried to replace the fans
    > on the T1000 with quieter aftermarket ones? Or
    > found some other way to quiet these things down.
    > Thanks.


    Well it's the tradition of Sun to give a bull**** on noise.

    I was pretty surprised that most of the Fan's inside the
    Sun Desktop Machines already have a "Silent Fan" label.

    And yes, Sun Fanboys will surely answer here too. But taking
    a 72W CPU machine with 2 10k/rpm Disk and producing this
    noise let look the Sun Engineers as complete idiots.

    I can build a very cool Quad Core with 130Watt and 4 Raptors
    which is very quiete compared to this machine and safe
    Using new Fan Technology - just a few bucks more expensive
    then.

    The real problem is that even the Ultra 20/40 for desktops
    are unuseable noisy.









  3. Re: T1000 = Insanely noisely

    On 6 Apr 2007 13:56:37 -0700 post2google@yahoo.com wrote:
    > You know, I thought that nothing could be louder
    > than the Dell Poweredge 1850. The T1000 makes
    > it seem like the Poweredge is turned off.


    Seems pretty quiet to me. Are you waiting for the POST to complete, etc.?
    A little bit right after poweron, all fans go to full speed, which is
    quite noisy (and reassuring). But after a bit things settle down.

    You know, it IS designed to be in a server area after all.

    > And before
    > someone says "it's designed to be in a server area",


    oh. :-)

    -frank

  4. Re: T1000 = Insanely noisely

    On 6 Apr 2007 14:31:03 -0700 "llothar" wrote:
    > The real problem is that even the Ultra 20/40 for desktops
    > are unuseable noisy.


    I hate to risk putting myself into the Sun fanboy category, but the
    real problem is that many many many people put these servers into
    rooms with inadequate environmental controls.

    -frank

  5. Re: T1000 = Insanely noisely

    · Frank Cusack :

    > On 6 Apr 2007 14:31:03 -0700 "llothar" wrote:
    >> The real problem is that even the Ultra 20/40 for desktops
    >> are unuseable noisy.

    >
    > I hate to risk putting myself into the Sun fanboy category, but the
    > real problem is that many many many people put these servers into
    > rooms with inadequate environmental controls.


    Well, but why is it, that especially Sun hardware is always
    so extremely loud? Other server hardware (eg. HP, be it Unix
    or be it Proliant) isn't nearly as loud.

    Alexander Skwar
    --
    divorce, n:
    A change of wife.


  6. Re: T1000 = Insanely noisely

    On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 00:40:30 +0200 Alexander Skwar wrote:
    > Frank Cusack :
    >
    >> On 6 Apr 2007 14:31:03 -0700 "llothar" wrote:
    >>> The real problem is that even the Ultra 20/40 for desktops
    >>> are unuseable noisy.

    >>
    >> I hate to risk putting myself into the Sun fanboy category, but the
    >> real problem is that many many many people put these servers into
    >> rooms with inadequate environmental controls.

    >
    > Well, but why is it, that especially Sun hardware is always
    > so extremely loud? Other server hardware (eg. HP, be it Unix
    > or be it Proliant) isn't nearly as loud.


    True. Maybe over-engineering?

  7. Re: T1000 = Insanely noisely

    Frank Cusack wrote:
    > On 6 Apr 2007 13:56:37 -0700 post2google@yahoo.com wrote:
    > > You know, I thought that nothing could be louder
    > > than the Dell Poweredge 1850. The T1000 makes
    > > it seem like the Poweredge is turned off.

    >
    > Seems pretty quiet to me. Are you waiting for the POST to complete, etc.?
    > A little bit right after poweron, all fans go to full speed, which is
    > quite noisy (and reassuring). But after a bit things settle down.
    >
    > You know, it IS designed to be in a server area after all.


    Ok... but that is still no reason to make them _that_ noisy. The fans in
    a T1000 make more noise than the propellor of my "Race Rat" (that's a
    aerobatic-capable RC model plane with a very powerfull electric motor)
    and I doubt this is neccesary.

    ----

    Bye,
    Roland

    --
    __ . . __
    (o.\ \/ /.o) roland.mainz@nrubsig.org
    \__\/\/__/ MPEG specialist, C&&JAVA&&Sun&&Unix programmer
    /O /==\ O\ TEL +49 641 7950090
    (;O/ \/ \O

  8. Re: T1000 = Insanely noisely

    On 2007-04-06 23:40:30 +0100, Alexander Skwar
    said:

    > Well, but why is it, that especially Sun hardware is always
    > so extremely loud? Other server hardware (eg. HP, be it Unix
    > or be it Proliant) isn't nearly as loud.


    IBM blade chassis' are amazingly loud. Dells even louder.


  9. Re: T1000 = Insanely noisely

    On 2007-04-06 22:45:47 +0100, Frank Cusack said:

    > Seems pretty quiet to me. Are you waiting for the POST to complete, etc.?
    > A little bit right after poweron, all fans go to full speed, which is
    > quite noisy (and reassuring). But after a bit things settle down.


    Sun quote 66dB (LpAm at `bystander positions' which presumably means
    something precise) for it, which doesn't look amazingly loud to me.
    Some other 1u Sun kit we have has a particularly irritating noise
    characteristic, and it may be this that's the issue.

    --tim


  10. Re: T1000 = Insanely noisely

    Alexander Skwar wrote:

    >
    > Well, but why is it, that especially Sun hardware is always
    > so extremely loud? Other server hardware (eg. HP, be it Unix
    > or be it Proliant) isn't nearly as loud.
    >
    > Alexander Skwar


    Perhaps Sun only used single speed fans on their older kit. More modern
    kit tends to use variable speed fans that adjust to airflow temperature.
    However, a lot of server class kit is rated up to 40 C ambient and you
    need to shift a lot of air at that temp to maintain internal
    temperatures at safe levels. Lower cost kit may claim that rating, but I
    doubt if a lot of it been seriously tested in the way that high end
    vendors do. During design test, a large server will have hundreds of
    thermocouples throughout the system to make sure there are no hot spots
    and it will be tested in a wheel in environmental chamber at peak temp
    for days or even weeks - the airflow throughout the system is adjusted
    until everything is well within rating at max rated temperature. On a 1
    2 3u system, that often means small, noisy, high speed fans...

    Chris



    --

    ----------------------
    Greenfield Designs Ltd
    Electronic and Embedded System Design
    Oxford, England
    (44) 1865 750 681

  11. Re: T1000 = Insanely noisely

    ChrisQuayle wrote:

    > Perhaps Sun only used single speed fans on their older kit. More modern 51-35


    > kit tends to use variable speed fans that adjust to airflow temperature.
    > However, a lot of server class kit is rated up to 40 C ambient and you
    > need to shift a lot of air at that temp to maintain internal
    > temperatures at safe levels. Lower cost kit may claim that rating, but I
    > doubt if a lot of it been seriously tested in the way that high end
    > vendors do. During design test, a large server will have hundreds of
    > thermocouples throughout the system to make sure there are no hot spots
    > and it will be tested in a wheel in environmental chamber at peak temp
    > for days or even weeks - the airflow throughout the system is adjusted
    > until everything is well within rating at max rated temperature. On a 1
    > 2 3u system, that often means small, noisy, high speed fans...
    >
    > Chris



    Another issue is altitude. If something is rated for use at high
    altitude, its fans must be oversized when used at lower altitude. The
    reason is because its the *mass* of air per minute that affects how much
    heat is removed, not the volume flow rate. So at high altitude, the flow
    rate has to be higher as the air is thinner.

    I have a valve (tube to Americans) for which the data sheet gives air
    flow needed at various temperatures.

    http://www.g8wrb.org/data/Eimac/3CPX1500A7.pdf

    At sea level, with an air inlet temperature of 50 deg C, for maximum
    dissipation (1500 W), a flow rate of 35 cubic feet per minute (cfm) is
    needed.

    Increase the altitude to 10,000' and that goes up to 51 cfm, which is a
    very substantial (46%) increase.

    So if you Sun seems overcooled around sea level, you may well find it is
    not if you move it to somewhere where the altitude is high. I'm pressure
    sure my Ultra 80 is rated for use at 10,000', although my altitude is
    about 150'.


    --
    Dave (from the UK)

    Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
    It is always of the form: month-year@althorne.org
    Hitting reply will work for a few months only - later set it manually.

    http://chessdb.sourceforge.net/ - a Free open-source Chess Database

  12. Re: T1000 = Insanely noisely

    Dave (from the UK) wrote:
    > I'm pressure
    > sure my Ultra 80 is rated for use at 10,000', although my altitude is
    > about 150'.
    >
    >


    I'm mean I'm *pretty sure* my U80 is rated for 10,000' - not 'pressure'
    it is!!



    --
    Dave (from the UK)

    Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam.
    It is always of the form: month-year@althorne.org
    Hitting reply will work for a few months only - later set it manually.

    http://chessdb.sourceforge.net/ - a Free open-source Chess Database

  13. Re: T1000 = Insanely noisely

    Hi,

    llothar wrote:
    > On 6 Apr., 13:56, post2goo...@yahoo.com wrote:
    >
    >>You know, I thought that nothing could be louder
    >>than the Dell Poweredge 1850. The T1000 makes
    >>it seem like the Poweredge is turned off. And before
    >>someone says "it's designed to be in a server area",
    >>let me add that if you put a bunch of these things in
    >>a rack, we'd be talking mandatory OSHA hearing
    >>protection required, if not being tagged an EPA
    >>superfund site. It's a good machine, but not
    >>NEARLY powerful enough to justify the noise.
    >>
    >>But enough ranting. What I wanted to ask was
    >>whether anyone had tried to replace the fans
    >>on the T1000 with quieter aftermarket ones? Or
    >>found some other way to quiet these things down.
    >>Thanks.

    >
    >
    > Well it's the tradition of Sun to give a bull**** on noise.
    >
    > I was pretty surprised that most of the Fan's inside the
    > Sun Desktop Machines already have a "Silent Fan" label.
    >
    > And yes, Sun Fanboys will surely answer here too. But taking
    > a 72W CPU machine with 2 10k/rpm Disk and producing this
    > noise let look the Sun Engineers as complete idiots.
    >
    > I can build a very cool Quad Core with 130Watt and 4 Raptors
    > which is very quiete compared to this machine and safe
    > Using new Fan Technology - just a few bucks more expensive
    > then.
    >

    What is the " new Fan Technology"? Or are you refering to bigger heatsinks?

    Making a machine boot and run is easy, making it work in all specified
    environments is much harder and takes some testing.

    I am not defending Suns noise, but the performance on the machines is
    very good from cooling point of view.

    > The real problem is that even the Ultra 20/40 for desktops
    > are unuseable noisy.
    >

    They are maybe not for desktop usage I would say, atleast not the u45 I
    just received!

    I would put the u45 next to a workgroup server due to it's expandability
    and cooling possibilities, it has 3 big fans cooling everything exept
    for the PSU which has two small fans running very quite. .


    /michael



  14. Re: T1000 = Insanely noisely

    > True. Maybe over-engineering?

    Maybe not care ?


  15. Re: T1000 = Insanely noisely

    On 7 Apr., 01:55, Casper H.S. Dik wrote:
    > "llothar" writes:
    > >Well it's the tradition of Sun to give a bull**** on noise.

    >
    > For servers; the current desktops don't make much noise.
    > (The SunBlade 1000 was the first serious SPARC desktop with
    > didn't produce an annoying amount of noise)
    >


    Come on, if you think that the Blade 1000 (i tried it with a 750Mhz
    and a dual 900 Mhz)
    has an acceptable noise rate then you have a real damaged brain.

    I can't even work concentrated on a problem when the system is in the
    next room.
    Through 20 cm of finest german concrete i can here these beast.


  16. Re: T1000 = Insanely noisely

    On 8 Apr 2007 08:54:44 -0700
    "llothar" wrote:

    > On 7 Apr., 01:55, Casper H.S. Dik wrote:
    > > "llothar" writes:
    > > >Well it's the tradition of Sun to give a bull**** on noise.

    > >
    > > For servers; the current desktops don't make much noise.
    > > (The SunBlade 1000 was the first serious SPARC desktop with
    > > didn't produce an annoying amount of noise)

    >
    > Come on, if you think that the Blade 1000 (i tried it with a 750Mhz
    > and a dual 900 Mhz)
    > has an acceptable noise rate then you have a real damaged brain.


    It's not the most silent of systems, but it's quite acceptable - on par
    with, for example, a Fujitsu-Siemens Scenic E600. A lot depends on the
    disk drive(s). In my Blade 2000 I use drives with fluid bearings that
    are almost noiseless. The E600 is actually at this moment far noisier,
    because its disk drive is producing a very audible whine (the type of
    noise disk drives make when their bearings are worn out).

    > I can't even work concentrated on a problem when the system is in the
    > next room.
    > Through 20 cm of finest german concrete i can here these beast.


    Now you're being quite ridiculous. The only time that would be the case
    is when the fan control isn't working and the fans are going full
    blast. You did configure the OS properly?

    --
    Stefaan A Eeckels
    --
    Never explain by malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity.
    However:
    Sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from malice.

  17. Re: T1000 = Insanely noisely


    "Frank Cusack" wrote in message
    news:m2veg9dkag.fsf@sucksless.local...
    > On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 00:40:30 +0200 Alexander Skwar
    > wrote:
    >> Frank Cusack :
    >>
    >>> On 6 Apr 2007 14:31:03 -0700 "llothar" wrote:
    >>>> The real problem is that even the Ultra 20/40 for desktops
    >>>> are unuseable noisy.
    >>>
    >>> I hate to risk putting myself into the Sun fanboy category, but the
    >>> real problem is that many many many people put these servers into
    >>> rooms with inadequate environmental controls.

    >>
    >> Well, but why is it, that especially Sun hardware is always
    >> so extremely loud? Other server hardware (eg. HP, be it Unix
    >> or be it Proliant) isn't nearly as loud.

    >
    > True. Maybe over-engineering?


    Or maybe the loud noise is to scare the bugs away....

    On a more serious note, a rack of X100/V100's sounds like a jumbo jet
    engine. That noise adds up pretty quick in a room full of servers.



  18. Re: T1000 = Insanely noisely

    On Apr 6, 4:56 pm, post2goo...@yahoo.com wrote:
    > You know, I thought that nothing could be louder
    > than the Dell Poweredge 1850. The T1000 makes
    > it seem like the Poweredge is turned off. And before
    > someone says "it's designed to be in a server area",
    > let me add that if you put a bunch of these things in
    > a rack, we'd be talking mandatory OSHA hearing
    > protection required, if not being tagged an EPA
    > superfund site. It's a good machine, but not
    > NEARLY powerful enough to justify the noise.
    >
    > But enough ranting. What I wanted to ask was
    > whether anyone had tried to replace the fans
    > on the T1000 with quieter aftermarket ones? Or
    > found some other way to quiet these things down.
    > Thanks.
    >
    > -P



    If you are paying for support, the first thing to try
    would be to make your problem Sun's problem.

    ..


  19. Re: T1000 = Insanely noisely

    On 2007-04-08 21:31:20 +0100, Roland Mainz said:

    > I slightly disagree here. For example for RC model planes there are
    > air-screws available which are much less noisy than normal ones. In
    > theory the same could be done for a server, too.


    If the noise is fan noise as opposed to turbulence noise as air is
    driven through small gaps full of bumps.


  20. Re: T1000 = Insanely noisely

    On Sun, 08 Apr 2007 22:31:20 +0200
    Roland Mainz wrote:

    > I guess the
    > same could be done for the T1000 to reduce some of the vibrations.


    Indeed, but it would not be noticeable in the typical computer room.

    Speaking about noticeable, I just installed a couple of Cisco ASA5520
    firewalls, and these things make a very obnoxious warbling noise that is
    clearly audible in a room with about 30 HP and Dell 1U servers, a
    T2000, a bunch of V890s, V440s, A3320s, A6600s, 280Rs, switches, load
    balancers, routers, and the air-conditioning.

    --
    Stefaan A Eeckels
    --
    When the need is strong, there are those who will believe anything.
    -- Arnold Lobel

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