Power On Time Count SMART warning for Fujitsu 20GB - Storage

This is a discussion on Power On Time Count SMART warning for Fujitsu 20GB - Storage ; On 4 Sep 2008 21:44:49 GMT, Arno Wagner put finger to keyboard and composed: >Previously Franc Zabkar wrote: >> My MPF3204AT Fujitsu 20GB HDD's Power On Time Count just triggered a >> SMART warning after dropping below the threshold of ...

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Thread: Power On Time Count SMART warning for Fujitsu 20GB

  1. Re: Power On Time Count SMART warning for Fujitsu 20GB

    On 4 Sep 2008 21:44:49 GMT, Arno Wagner put finger to
    keyboard and composed:

    >Previously Franc Zabkar wrote:
    >> My MPF3204AT Fujitsu 20GB HDD's Power On Time Count just triggered a
    >> SMART warning after dropping below the threshold of 20.

    >
    >> The raw value is currently 43763894 seconds, ie 12156 hours.

    >
    >> OTOH my 120GB Seagate drive is currently at ...

    >
    >> Power On Hours Count 9 0 99 99 0000000005DDh (1501)

    >
    >> ... so its expected life appears to be somewhere between 150,100 and
    >> 75,050 hours.

    >
    >> Are these numbers realistic, ie has hard disc reliability really
    >> improved that much? I don't think so.

    >
    >This is not reliability. This is component life under operation.


    I don't see the distinction. The end user just needs to know whether
    one device can be expected to last longer than another. If it does,
    then it's more reliable. He doesn't care whether the difference is due
    to design philosophy, or component selection, or the state of
    technology.

    >It has improved significantly due to better lubrication
    >material as has non-operating component life. Here also because
    >of the move to ceramic capacitors, that basically live forever,
    >while electrolytes die after 3-5 years or so, depending on
    >temperature and quality.
    >
    >But, no, I would say the 7.5/15 years are probably still
    >longer than you can realistically expect.


    I tried to compare a ST313021A 13GB Seagate HD of around the same
    vintage. Unfortunately Seagate's SMART data are confusing as usual.

    Here is a sample:

    Att Thr Cur Worst Raw
    -------------------------------------------------------
    Power On Hours Count 9 0 247 1 0000000026C7h
    Power On Hours Count 9 0 210 1 000000002810h
    Power On Hours Count 9 0 188 1 0000000028D0h

    It looks like each point represents about 8.8 hours. A total of 256
    points would then equate to about 2260 hours. However the raw figure
    represents 10,448 hours.

    As for the start/stop count, it appears that the threshold for a SMART
    warning must be between 88,020 and 72,496.

    Start/Stop Count 4 20 96 96 000000001131h
    Start/Stop Count 4 20 96 96 0000000011B3h

    However, the datasheet ...

    http://www.seagate.com/support/disc/.../ata/u8pmb.pdf

    .... specifies the number of "contact start-stop cycles" as 50,000.

    - Franc Zabkar
    --
    Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

  2. Re: Power On Time Count SMART warning for Fujitsu 20GB

    Previously Franc Zabkar wrote:
    > On 4 Sep 2008 21:44:49 GMT, Arno Wagner put finger to
    > keyboard and composed:


    >>Previously Franc Zabkar wrote:
    >>> My MPF3204AT Fujitsu 20GB HDD's Power On Time Count just triggered a
    >>> SMART warning after dropping below the threshold of 20.

    >>
    >>> The raw value is currently 43763894 seconds, ie 12156 hours.

    >>
    >>> OTOH my 120GB Seagate drive is currently at ...

    >>
    >>> Power On Hours Count 9 0 99 99 0000000005DDh (1501)

    >>
    >>> ... so its expected life appears to be somewhere between 150,100 and
    >>> 75,050 hours.

    >>
    >>> Are these numbers realistic, ie has hard disc reliability really
    >>> improved that much? I don't think so.

    >>
    >>This is not reliability. This is component life under operation.


    > I don't see the distinction. The end user just needs to know whether
    > one device can be expected to last longer than another. If it does,
    > then it's more reliable. He doesn't care whether the difference is due
    > to design philosophy, or component selection, or the state of
    > technology.


    True, but the problem here is if these things are not well-defined,
    then vendors will lie and sell worse quality with seemingly better
    numbers.

    So the "component live" is actually the time period where the
    steted MTBF holds (except initially). After the component live
    time iis over, the MTBF gets worse, usually slowly.


    >>It has improved significantly due to better lubrication
    >>material as has non-operating component life. Here also because
    >>of the move to ceramic capacitors, that basically live forever,
    >>while electrolytes die after 3-5 years or so, depending on
    >>temperature and quality.
    >>
    >>But, no, I would say the 7.5/15 years are probably still
    >>longer than you can realistically expect.


    > I tried to compare a ST313021A 13GB Seagate HD of around the same
    > vintage. Unfortunately Seagate's SMART data are confusing as usual.


    > Here is a sample:


    > Att Thr Cur Worst Raw
    > -------------------------------------------------------
    > Power On Hours Count 9 0 247 1 0000000026C7h
    > Power On Hours Count 9 0 210 1 000000002810h
    > Power On Hours Count 9 0 188 1 0000000028D0h


    > It looks like each point represents about 8.8 hours. A total of 256
    > points would then equate to about 2260 hours. However the raw figure
    > represents 10,448 hours.


    > As for the start/stop count, it appears that the threshold for a SMART
    > warning must be between 88,020 and 72,496.


    > Start/Stop Count 4 20 96 96 000000001131h
    > Start/Stop Count 4 20 96 96 0000000011B3h


    > However, the datasheet ...


    > http://www.seagate.com/support/disc/.../ata/u8pmb.pdf


    > ... specifies the number of "contact start-stop cycles" as 50,000.


    That is pretty standard for non-notebook dsrives.

    Arno


  3. Re: Power On Time Count SMART warning for Fujitsu 20GB

    On Fri, 05 Sep 2008 07:08:06 +1000, Franc Zabkar
    put finger to keyboard and composed:

    >My MPF3204AT Fujitsu 20GB HDD's Power On Time Count just triggered a
    >SMART warning after dropping below the threshold of 20.
    >
    >The raw value is currently 43763894 seconds, ie 12156 hours.
    >
    >OTOH my 120GB Seagate drive is currently at ...
    >
    >Power On Hours Count 9 0 99 99 0000000005DDh (1501)
    >
    >... so its expected life appears to be somewhere between 150,100 and
    >75,050 hours.


    After looking at other SMART reports, it looks like Seagate has
    settled on a figure of around 90,000 powered-on hours since its 40GB
    models.

    ST94019A 40GB (75583 - 90700 hours)
    http://www.searchengines.pl/Dlaczego...e--t90712.html
    09 Power-On Time Count 0 95 95 4535

    ST94011A 40GB (83688 - 95643 hours)
    http://paste.ubuntuusers.de/raw/391290/
    9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 093 093 000 6695

    ST380011A 80GB (86040 - 89006 hours)
    http://www.techsupportforum.com/micr...t-problem.html
    09 Power-On Time Count 0 71 71 25812

    ST310212A 100GB (82728 - 96517 hours)
    http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/sh...t=31706&page=2
    09 Power-On Time Count 0 94 94 5791

    ST3120026A 120GB (86042 - 90822 hours)
    http://www.computerbanter.com/showthread.php?t=105776
    09 Power-On Time Count 0 82 82 16348

    ST3120026AS 120GB (86182 - 89374 hours)
    http://www.techsupportforum.com/micr...t-problem.html
    09 Power-On Time Count 0 73 73 24131

    ST3160023A 160GB (87110 - 90113 hours)
    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=5709248
    9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 071 071 000 26133

    ST3500630A 500GB (80125 - 10683 hours)
    http://akshaal.livejournal.com/221903.html
    9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 097 097 000 3205

    - Franc Zabkar
    --
    Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

  4. Re: Power On Time Count SMART warning for Fujitsu 20GB

    On Sun, 07 Sep 2008 08:56:15 +1000, Franc Zabkar
    put finger to keyboard and composed:

    >After looking at other SMART reports, it looks like Seagate has
    >settled on a figure of around 90,000 powered-on hours since its 40GB
    >models.


    I should have added that this corresponds to roughly 10 years (87,600
    hours).

    - Franc Zabkar
    --
    Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

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