Not sure what to do about not receiving error messages - Storage

This is a discussion on Not sure what to do about not receiving error messages - Storage ; Rod Speed wrote in news:6fihmsFbr1fqU1@mid.individual.net > Arno Wagner wrote: > > Previously news.rcn.com wrote: > > > The SMART part of the report looks like this and as I suggested, I > > > was unable to find exception in ...

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Thread: Not sure what to do about not receiving error messages

  1. Re: Not sure what to do about not receiving error messages

    Rod Speed wrote in news:6fihmsFbr1fqU1@mid.individual.net
    > Arno Wagner wrote:
    > > Previously news.rcn.com wrote:
    > > > The SMART part of the report looks like this and as I suggested, I
    > > > was unable to find exception in any of it:

    > >
    > > > [ HTS421212H9AT00 (HKA414ALGTJPJE) ]

    > >
    > > > 01 Raw Read Error Rate 62 100 100 0 OK: Value is normal
    > > > 02 Throughput Performance 40 100 100 0 OK: Value is normal
    > > > 03 Spin Up Time 33 115 115 2 OK: Value is normal
    > > > 04 Start/Stop Count 0 98 98 4310 OK: Always passing
    > > > 05 Reallocated Sector Count 5 100 100 0 OK: Value is normal
    > > > 07 Seek Error Rate 67 100 100 0 OK: Value is normal
    > > > 08 Seek Time Performance 40 100 100 0 OK: Value is normal
    > > > 09 Power-On Time Count 0 83 83 7803 OK: Always passing
    > > > 0A Spin Retry Count 60 100 100 0 OK: Value is normal
    > > > 0C Power Cycle Count 0 100 100 871 OK: Always passing
    > > > BF G-Sense Error Rate 0 100 100 0 OK: Always passing
    > > > C0 Power-Off Retract Count 0 100 100 41 OK: Always passing
    > > > C1 Load/Unload Cycle Count 0 66 66 342566OK: Always passing
    > > > C2 Temperature 0 130 130 9, 42 OK: Always passing
    > > > C4 Reallocation Event Count 0 100 100 95 OK: Always passing
    > > > C5 Current Pending Sector Count 0 100 100 0 OK: Always passing
    > > > C6 Off-Line Uncorrectable Sector Count 0 100 100 0 OK: Always passing
    > > > C7 Ultra ATA CRC Error Rate 0 200 200 42 OK: Always passing

    > >
    > > > (I really am unsure about using torrents and havent dared try to
    > > > download anything from them)


    > > This drive has a problem.


    Gee wizz.

    > > Attribut C4 indicates 95 reallocation events, while 05 indicates zero
    > > reallocated sectors (leat attribute is raw).


    No. Really?

    > > This may be due to the drive testing the sectors that ahad read errors
    > > and finding nothing wrong with them. This in turn means likely the sectors
    > > are fine and the problem is with the drive or its environment.


    How original.
    Did you think that up all by yourself, Babblebot, 1 hour after I wrote that first.

    > > Mechanical shock, bad power


    > and other factors


    Yeah, that should nail it.

    > > can cause sectors to be written badly.


    > > Marginal servo electronics or can too.


    Yeah, that obviously doesn't fall under the 'other factors'.

    > > It is not clear whether the drive is to blame, but it had 95 cases where
    > > ist could not read a sector. That is far too high for reliable operation.


    > > If you have 1 unreadable sector per year that may just be bad luck.


    Very bad luck indeed.
    Obviously those hundreds of thousands of spares should never be used.

    > > Here something is very wrong, but it may not be something with the disk.


    It is, .... it isn't .... .... she loves me, .... she loves me not ....

    Babblebot, trying to decide, tearing hairs out.

    >
    > > Hmm. On a second look,


    So many insights, how to keep track of them all.

    > > this disk has gone though 342'566 load/unload cycles.
    > > Notebook drives are only rated for about 500'000 of these


    600,000 if you had taken the time to look it up at HGST.com
    And that's a minimum, not a maximum. Any possible problems
    should start well after that figure will have been reached.

    >
    > So the drive is still well below the drive manufacturer's design value.


    Barely halfway even. Less than, if you only look at the normalized values.

    >
    > > (desktop drives for 50'000). It is possible that the mechanics
    > > of this one are dying just a little bit early and are getting
    > > a tiny bit imprecise, enough to cause the occational bad write.


    > But if that was true, you'd see it in the seek error rate


    And not just there.

    > and you dont.


    > > A bad write then turns into a suspected bad sector,


    Utter nonsense. You don't get bad writes from that.

    > > but when testing it the drive finds nothing wrong and continues to use it.


    Bad mechanics that only affect writes but not reads.
    Brilliant. Sheer genius, babblebot.

    If that happens to writes it happens to reads too.
    The raw read error rate is perfect. The mechanics are fine.

    >
    > > I think you should replace the disk. I suspect it is staring to show signs of old age.

    >


    > Its certainly got a problem,


    There's nothing certain about it.

    > but that isnt old age.


  2. Re: Not sure what to do about not receiving error messages

    Rod Speed wrote in news:6fih7kFbkoqeU1@mid.individual.net
    > Squeeze wrote:
    > > news.rcn.com wrote in news:-qidneQ6DcrQxg7VnZ2dnUVZ_uOdnZ2d@rcn.net
    > > > "Rod Speed" wrote in message
    > > > news:6fh1rlFb11ljU1@mid.individual.net...
    > > > > news.rcn.com wrote:

    > >
    > >
    > > [snip]
    > >
    > > > > > C2 Temperature 0 130 130 9, 42
    > > > >
    > > > > That max of 42C is fine, so the bads cant have come from the drive
    > > > > getting stinking hot unless this SMART value has been reset too.

    > >
    > > > No this drive doesnt get particularly hot at all.

    >
    > > The "9, 42" value is suspect anyway. Unfit for any conclusions whatsoever.


    > Perfectly possible for a laptop drive to have those as max and min in C


    IOW, you were merely speculating what that value stands for and haven't got a clue.

  3. Re: Not sure what to do about not receiving error messages

    JeBus Rod, you must be really desperate.

    Rod Speed wrote in news:6fihfvFbq1amU1@mid.individual.net
    > news.rcn.com wrote:
    > > "news.rcn.com" fountainpen@amexol.com> wrote in message news:3-OdnUt56bu7iAzVnZ2dnUVZ_jSdnZ2d@rcn.net...
    > > > "Rod Speed" rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message news:6f9t9aFajekcU1@mid.individual.net...
    > > > > news.rcn.com wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > > > Does anyone know how many spare clusters there are typically on a
    > > > > > 120 Gig Travelstar please?
    > > > >
    > > > > It doesnt matter. If you need most of them, the drive is dying.
    > > > >
    > > > > > I suppose it IS safe to use them?
    > > > >
    > > > > Not if the data isnt fully backed up.
    > > > >
    > > > > > Isn't that what they are for?
    > > > >
    > > > > Nope, its so the drive dies gracefully when thats possible.


    How its allowed to get to "old age".

    > > > >
    > > > > > I have a 120 Gig Travelstar which was continuously failing. When it
    > > > > > failed the computer wouldn't POST, giving a hard drive failure
    > > > > > error message. I could then load BIOS defaults and go into windows
    > > > > > and the machine would work for sometimes a few minutes, sometimes
    > > > > > a day or so before cutting dead.
    > > > >
    > > > > Thats not the drive dying. If the drive was dying, loading the BIOS
    > > > > defaults wouldnt make any difference.
    > > > >
    > > > > > The manufacturer has replaced the mobo on this unit twice in the
    > > > > > last month or so.
    > > > >
    > > > > Maybe with another defective motherboard with the same fault thats
    > > > > common to that motherboard.
    > > >
    > > > No, the first time the i/o controller was dead and the second the
    > > > mouse was completely inoperative. If this is a problem with the
    > > > mobo, this is the first I have seen of it
    > > > >
    > > > > > However running DFT's advanced test (from a CD) shows dead
    > > > > > clusters and running sector repair just results in a COMPLETED
    > > > > > SUCCESSFULLY message???
    > > > >
    > > > > Likely the fault is producing the illusion of bad clusters that
    > > > > arent actually bad.

    > >
    > > Sorry, I was asked to post a report and just said that everything was OK

    >
    > > There was one interesting statistic: The replaced sector count was 5


    > Nope, thats the threshold, the value at which the drive is looking doubtful.


    Doubtful, Rod? Is that a new word for "about to die" or "old age"?

    >
    > The actual value seen is the last number for that field, 0.


    Ah, you found it, huh.

    >
    > > which it said was within normal paramters. 5 seems like the sort of figure produced by a SMART sector replacement.

    >
    > Nope, its just the threshold.


    Whatever. It was a stupid sentence either way.

    >
    > > I ran DFT at least ten times before it reported that there were no (more) bad sectors. I wonder if I should call Acer
    > > and ask them if they think this points to a problem with the motherboard as you describe?


    > Nope, its just a threshold.


    If you repeat that a few more times, maybe it sinks in, huh.

    And yes, it could indeed be the motherboard if it hadn't already been replaced twice.
    Assuming the 5Volt regulation is on that MoBo.
    That leaves the mains brick and the harddrive caddie as possible external culprits.

    >
    > > This is now especially difficult if the problem has (by now) gone
    > > away and I have in effect nothing to show Acer on this Mobo which is
    > > actually wrong?? I just have to sort of hope (!) that the problem
    > > comes back before the warranty expires

    >
    > > I should have said

    [snip]

  4. Re: Not sure what to do about not receiving error messages

    Squeeze wrote
    > Rod Speed wrote
    >> Squeeze wrote
    >>> news.rcn.com wrote
    >>>> Rod Speed wrote
    >>>>> news.rcn.com wrote


    >>>>>> C2 Temperature 0 130 130 9, 42


    >>>>> That max of 42C is fine, so the bads cant have come from the drive
    >>>>> getting stinking hot unless this SMART value has been reset too.


    >>>> No this drive doesnt get particularly hot at all.


    >>> The "9, 42" value is suspect anyway. Unfit for any conclusions whatsoever.


    >> Perfectly possible for a laptop drive to have those as max and min in C


    > IOW, you were merely speculating what that value stands for and haven't got a clue.


    Nope, I know that some drives do that field that way, ****wit.



  5. Re: Not sure what to do about not receiving error messages

    "Squeeze" wrote in message
    news:4894b704$1$13881$8f2e0ebb@news.shared-secrets.com...
    > Rod Speed wrote in news:6fih7kFbkoqeU1@mid.individual.net
    >> Squeeze wrote:
    >> > news.rcn.com wrote in news:-qidneQ6DcrQxg7VnZ2dnUVZ_uOdnZ2d@rcn.net
    >> > > "Rod Speed" wrote in message
    >> > > news:6fh1rlFb11ljU1@mid.individual.net...
    >> > > > news.rcn.com wrote:
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > [snip]
    >> >
    >> > > > > C2 Temperature 0 130 130 9, 42
    >> > > >
    >> > > > That max of 42C is fine, so the bads cant have come from the drive
    >> > > > getting stinking hot unless this SMART value has been reset too.
    >> >
    >> > > No this drive doesnt get particularly hot at all.

    >>
    >> > The "9, 42" value is suspect anyway. Unfit for any conclusions whatsoever.

    >
    >> Perfectly possible for a laptop drive to have those as max and min in C

    >
    > IOW, you were merely speculating what that value stands for and haven't got a clue.


    Alright, **** for brains, give us a better interpretation.
    How about degrees F or K? Wotta ****ing retard.


  6. Re: Not sure what to do about not receiving error messages

    Rod Speed wrote in news:6fjuv7Fc0qo6U1@mid.individual.net
    > Squeeze wrote
    > > Rod Speed wrote
    > > > Squeeze wrote
    > > > > news.rcn.com wrote
    > > > > > Rod Speed wrote
    > > > > > > news.rcn.com wrote

    >
    > > > > > > > C2 Temperature 0 130 130 9, 42

    >
    > > > > > > That max of 42C is fine, so the bads cant have come from the drive
    > > > > > > getting stinking hot unless this SMART value has been reset too.

    >
    > > > > > No this drive doesnt get particularly hot at all.

    >
    > > > > The "9, 42" value is suspect anyway. Unfit for any conclusions whatsoever.

    >
    > > > Perfectly possible for a laptop drive to have those as max and min in C

    >
    > > IOW, you were merely speculating what that value stands for and haven't got a clue.


    > Nope, I know that some drives do that field that way,


    _"Some"_ drives, huh. Thanks Rod for confirming the 'speculation' part.

    A drive with a temperature sensor but one that doesn't give you
    the actual temperature. Nice try, Roddy. Here's a cheap sigar.

    While some drives register 2 extra values in the temperature attribute
    (current temperature and the lifetime minimum and maximum temperatures)
    either all three should be reported or just one. Two is suspect.

    > ****wit.


    Roddy, Roddy, all that desperate effort to appear to be the nice, helpful
    and knowledgeable gentleman to the OP, all gone to waste in one sentence.


  7. Re: Not sure what to do about not receiving error messages

    Eric Gisin wrote in news:g74hda$gm2$1@news.mixmin.net
    > "Squeeze" wrote in message news:4894b704$1$13881$8f2e0ebb@news.shared-secrets.com...
    > > Rod Speed wrote in news:6fih7kFbkoqeU1@mid.individual.net
    > > > Squeeze wrote:
    > > > > news.rcn.com wrote in news:-qidneQ6DcrQxg7VnZ2dnUVZ_uOdnZ2d@rcn.net
    > > > > > "Rod Speed" wrote in message news:6fh1rlFb11ljU1@mid.individual.net...
    > > > > > > news.rcn.com wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > [snip]
    > > > >
    > > > > > > > C2 Temperature 0 130 130 9, 42
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > That max of 42C is fine, so the bads cant have come from the drive
    > > > > > > getting stinking hot unless this SMART value has been reset too.
    > > > >
    > > > > > No this drive doesnt get particularly hot at all.
    > > >
    > > > > The "9, 42" value is suspect anyway. Unfit for any conclusions whatsoever.

    > >
    > > > Perfectly possible for a laptop drive to have those as max and min in C

    > >
    > > IOW, you were merely speculating what that value stands for and haven't got a clue.


    > Alright, **** for brains, give us a better interpretation.


    Another speculation, Newbie? No thanks.

    > How about degrees F or K?


    Does the term "Vendor Specific" mean anything to you, Newbie?

    > Wotta ****ing retard.


    Looking in the mirror again, Gisen?

    Btw, have you been reported, or fear to be, that you post through mixmin now?

  8. Re: Not sure what to do about not receiving error messages

    Squeeze wrote
    > Rod Speed wrote
    >> Squeeze wrote
    >>> Rod Speed wrote
    >>>> Squeeze wrote
    >>>>> news.rcn.com wrote
    >>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
    >>>>>>> news.rcn.com wrote


    >>>>>>>> C2 Temperature 0 130 130 9, 42


    >>>>>>> That max of 42C is fine, so the bads cant have come from the drive
    >>>>>>> getting stinking hot unless this SMART value has been reset too.


    >>>>>> No this drive doesnt get particularly hot at all.


    >>>>> The "9, 42" value is suspect anyway. Unfit for any conclusions whatsoever.


    >>>> Perfectly possible for a laptop drive to have those as max and min in C


    >>> IOW, you were merely speculating what that value stands for and haven't got a clue.


    >> Nope, I know that some drives do that field that way,


    > _"Some"_ drives, huh.


    Yep.

    > Thanks Rod for confirming the 'speculation' part.


    Nope, fact, actually.

    > A drive with a temperature sensor but one that doesn't give you the actual temperature.


    In the Everest report, yep.

    > Nice try, Roddy. Here's a cheap sigar.


    No such animal, pseudokraut.

    > While some drives register 2 extra values in the temperature attribute
    > (current temperature and the lifetime minimum and maximum temperatures)
    > either all three should be reported or just one. Two is suspect.


    Wrong, as always.

    >> ****wit.


    > Roddy, Roddy, all that desperate effort to appear to be the nice, helpful
    > and knowledgeable gentleman to the OP, all gone to waste in one sentence.


    Wrong, as always.

    Everyone has noticed that you are a silly little ****wit, pseudokraut.



  9. Re: Not sure what to do about not receiving error messages


    "Rod Speed" wrote in message
    news:6fihmsFbr1fqU1@mid.individual.net...
    > Arno Wagner wrote:
    >> Previously news.rcn.com wrote:
    >>> The SMART part of the report looks like this and as I suggested, I
    >>> was unable to find exception in any of it:

    >>
    >>> [ HTS421212H9AT00 (HKA414ALGTJPJE) ]

    >>
    >>> 01 Raw Read Error Rate 62 100 100 0 OK:
    >>> Value is normal
    >>> 02 Throughput Performance 40 100 100 0 OK:
    >>> Value is normal
    >>> 03 Spin Up Time 33 115 115 2
    >>> OK: Value is normal
    >>> 04 Start/Stop Count 0 98 98 4310
    >>> OK: Always passing
    >>> 05 Reallocated Sector Count 5 100 100 0 OK:
    >>> Value is normal
    >>> 07 Seek Error Rate 67 100 100 0
    >>> OK: Value is normal
    >>> 08 Seek Time Performance 40 100 100 0 OK:
    >>> Value is normal
    >>> 09 Power-On Time Count 0 83 83 7803 OK:
    >>> Always passing
    >>> 0A Spin Retry Count 60 100 100 0 OK:
    >>> Value is normal
    >>> 0C Power Cycle Count 0 100 100 871 OK:
    >>> Always passing
    >>> BF G-Sense Error Rate 0 100 100 0 OK:
    >>> Always passing
    >>> C0 Power-Off Retract Count 0 100 100 41 OK:
    >>> Always passing
    >>> C1 Load/Unload Cycle Count 0 66 66 342566OK:
    >>> Always passing
    >>> C2 Temperature 0 130 130 9,
    >>> 42 OK: Always passing
    >>> C4 Reallocation Event Count 0 100 100 95 OK:
    >>> Always passing
    >>> C5 Current Pending Sector Count 0 100 100 0 OK: Always
    >>> passing C6 Off-Line Uncorrectable Sector Count0 100 100 0 OK:
    >>> Always passing C7 Ultra ATA CRC Error Rate 0 200 200
    >>> 42 OK: Always
    >>> passing

    >>
    >>> (I really am unsure about using torrents and havent dared try to
    >>> download anything from them)

    >>
    >> This drive has a problem. Attribut C4 indicates 95 reallocation
    >> events, while 05 indicates zero reallocated sectors (leat attribute
    >> is raw). This may be due to the drive testing the sectors that
    >> ahad read errors and finding nothing wrong with them. This in turn
    >> means likely the sectors are fine and the problem is with the drive
    >> or its environment. Mechanical shock, bad power and other factors
    >> can cause sectors to be written badly. Marginal servo electronics
    >> or can too. It is not clear whether the drive is to blame, but
    >> it had 95 cases where ist could not read a sector. That is
    >> far too high for reliable operation. If you have 1 unreadable
    >> sector per year that may just be bad luck. Here something is very
    >> wrong, but it may not be something with the disk.

    >
    >> Hmm. On a second look, this disk has gone though 342'566 load/unload
    >> cycles. Notebook drives are only rated for about 500'000 of these

    I am not sure whether a drive dating from the middle of 2006 can really be
    classified as an old drive which is coming anywhere near the end of its
    working life? But I DO wonder what can be causing such a gigantic number of
    load/unload cycles in not particularly high usage over a two year period?
    Can this be something to do with the power supply not letting the drive
    write the sectors properly and something tells the drive to keep on trying
    to write them or is this something done at startup when SMART runs?

    >
    > So the drive is still well below the drive manufacturer's design value.
    >
    >> (desktop drives for 50'000). It is possible that the mechanics
    >> of this one are dying just a little bit early and are getting
    >> a tiny bit imprecise, enough to cause the occational bad write.

    >
    > But if that was true, you'd see it in the seek error rate and you dont.
    >
    >> A bad write then turns into a suspected bad sector, but when
    >> testing it the drive finds nothing wrong and continues to use it.

    >
    >> I think you should replace the disk. I suspect it is staring to show
    >> signs of old age.

    >
    > Its certainly got a problem, but that isnt old age.

    As there appears at the least to be some question as to whether there is a
    problem with the drive or with the power supply, I have now had a chance to
    try this computer with another fresh drive. It has a fresh install of the
    OS for this computer and on running DFT it immediately found one of those
    mysterious bad sectors which it said it replaced. Just like the other drive.
    Now, just like the other drive it reports nothing amiss with any sector on
    further testing and runs OK.

    Again, or the computer runs OK for the moment and the PS has an intermittent
    fault resulting in the badly written sectors which look to DFT like bad
    sectors until it's sector repair tries to 'repair' a sector which doesnt
    need repairing?



  10. Re: Not sure what to do about not receiving error messages

    news.rcn.com wrote in news:jJ-dnVHjo44elwrVnZ2dnUVZ_ojinZ2d@rcn.net
    > "Rod Speed" wrote in message news:6fihmsFbr1fqU1@mid.individual.net...
    > > Arno Wagner wrote:
    > > > Previously news.rcn.com wrote:

    >
    > > > > The SMART part of the report looks like this and as I suggested, I
    > > > > was unable to find exception in any of it:
    > > >
    > > > > [ HTS421212H9AT00 (HKA414ALGTJPJE) ]
    > > >


    [snip unreadable trash]

    > > >
    > > > > (I really am unsure about using torrents and havent dared try to
    > > > > download anything from them)
    > > >

    [snip more babble trash]
    > >
    > > > Hmm. On a second look, this disk has gone though 342'566 load/unload
    > > > cycles. Notebook drives are only rated for about 500'000 of these


    > I am not sure whether a drive dating from the middle of 2006 can really be
    > be classified as an old drive which is coming anywhere near the end of its
    > working life?


    It's Babblebot. It doesn't think before it posts, it just babbles.

    > But I DO wonder what can be causing such a gigantic number of
    > load/unload cycles in not particularly high usage over a two year period?


    It's a laptop drive.
    It parks the heads after a few seconds every time you stop working on it and
    unloads them again at the next access, after which the whole process repeats.

    > Can this be something to do with the power supply not letting the drive
    > write the sectors properly


    Nope.

    > and something tells the drive to keep on trying to write them
    > or is this something done at startup when SMART runs?


    Nope, none of that. It's just ordinary power conservation.

    The bad sectors develop when the power is pulled unexpectedly during a
    write (sector write unfinished, no valid ECC, aka a bad sector) for what-
    ever reason. The drive does an emergency unload to prevent heads landing.
    The power-off retract count may be the indication of that.

    >
    > >
    > > So the drive is still well below the drive manufacturer's design value.
    > >
    > > > (desktop drives for 50'000). It is possible that the mechanics
    > > > of this one are dying just a little bit early and are getting
    > > > a tiny bit imprecise, enough to cause the occational bad write.

    > >
    > > But if that was true, you'd see it in the seek error rate and you dont.
    > >
    > > > A bad write then turns into a suspected bad sector, but when
    > > > testing it the drive finds nothing wrong and continues to use it.

    > >
    > > > I think you should replace the disk. I suspect it is staring to show
    > > > signs of old age.


    > > Its certainly got a problem, but that isnt old age.


    > As there appears at the least to be some question as to whether there is a
    > problem with the drive or with the power supply,


    No, really, what makes you think that.

    > I have now had a chance to try this computer with another fresh drive.
    > It has a fresh install of the OS for this computer and on running DFT
    > it immediately found one of those mysterious bad sectors which it said
    > it replaced. Just like the other drive.
    > Now, just like the other drive it reports nothing amiss with any sector on
    > further testing and runs OK.


    Right, so obviously you are in the wrong post now.
    Unless of course, you want to rub it in on Roddles.

    >
    > Again, or the computer runs OK for the moment and the PS has an intermittent
    > fault resulting in the badly written sectors which look to DFT like bad
    > sectors until it's sector repair tries to 'repair' a sector which doesnt
    > need repairing?


    Is that a question, a remark or what.

  11. Re: Not sure what to do about not receiving error messages

    Rod Speed wrote in news:6fo2ddFc666fU1@mid.individual.net
    > Squeeze wrote
    > > Rod Speed wrote
    > > > Squeeze wrote
    > > > > Rod Speed wrote
    > > > > > Squeeze wrote
    > > > > > > news.rcn.com wrote
    > > > > > > > Rod Speed wrote
    > > > > > > > > news.rcn.com wrote

    >
    > > > > > > > > > C2 Temperature 0 130 130 9, 42

    >
    > > > > > > > > That max of 42C is fine, so the bads cant have come from the drive
    > > > > > > > > getting stinking hot unless this SMART value has been reset too.

    >
    > > > > > > > No this drive doesnt get particularly hot at all.

    >
    > > > > > > The "9, 42" value is suspect anyway. Unfit for any conclusions whatsoever.

    >
    > > > > > Perfectly possible for a laptop drive to have those as max and min in C

    >
    > > > > IOW, you were merely speculating what that value stands for and haven't got a clue.

    >
    > > > Nope, I know that some drives do that field that way,

    >
    > > _"Some"_ drives, huh.

    >
    > Yep.
    >
    > > Thanks Rod for confirming the 'speculation' part.

    >
    > Nope, fact, actually.
    >
    > > A drive with a temperature sensor but one that doesn't give you the actual temperature.

    >
    > In the Everest report, yep.


    Pity that you just said that it was the drives, Roddy. Now it's Everest.
    Pity again then that Everest reported the lifetime Low and the Current
    temperature for a while, not the Lifetime Low and Max as you suggest.

    So if that applies to this particular older version of Everest the 42 was
    the actual temperature of the moment and there's no saying of what the
    highest temperature may have ever been. So, wrong again then, Rodney.

    >
    > > Nice try, Roddy. Here's a cheap sigar.


    > No such animal, pseudokraut.


    How observant of you, Roddles.
    The cubans may agree with you there.
    It's probably what they first learn at school.
    That tobacco is a crop and nothing to do with animals.
    Yeah, you got that figured out very well.
    At least there's something that you are good at, no.
    Good to know.

    >
    > > While some drives register 2 extra values in the temperature attribute
    > > (current temperature and the lifetime minimum and maximum temperatures)
    > > either all three should be reported or just one. Two is suspect.


    > Wrong, as always.


    Pity you are the perfect example that fell for it, not knowing about Everests silly
    reporting of the Lifetime Low rather than the far more important Lifetime Max.

    >
    > > > ****wit.

    >
    > > Roddy, Roddy, all that desperate effort to appear to be the nice, helpful
    > > and knowledgeable gentleman to the OP, all gone to waste in one sentence.


    > Wrong, as always.


    We'll see. He's softly rubbing it in on you.

    > Everyone has noticed that you are a silly little ****wit, pseudokraut.


    Pity that silly little ****wit pseudokraut got it right again, as always.

  12. Re: Not sure what to do about not receiving error messages

    Squeeze wrote
    > Rod Speed wrote
    >> Squeeze wrote
    >>> Rod Speed wrote
    >>>> Squeeze wrote
    >>>>> Rod Speed wrote
    >>>>>> Squeeze wrote
    >>>>>>> news.rcn.com wrote
    >>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
    >>>>>>>>> news.rcn.com wrote


    >>>>>>>>>> C2 Temperature 0 130 130 9, 42


    >>>>>>>>> That max of 42C is fine, so the bads cant have come from the drive
    >>>>>>>>> getting stinking hot unless this SMART value has been reset too.


    >>>>>>>> No this drive doesnt get particularly hot at all.


    >>>>>>> The "9, 42" value is suspect anyway. Unfit for any conclusions whatsoever.


    >>>>>> Perfectly possible for a laptop drive to have those as max and min in C


    >>>>> IOW, you were merely speculating what that value stands for and haven't got a clue.


    >>>> Nope, I know that some drives do that field that way,


    >>> _"Some"_ drives, huh.


    >> Yep.


    >>> Thanks Rod for confirming the 'speculation' part.


    >> Nope, fact, actually.


    >>> A drive with a temperature sensor but one that doesn't give you the actual temperature.


    >> In the Everest report, yep.


    > Pity that you just said that it was the drives, Roddy.


    We already knew it was the Everest report being discussed, ****wit.

    > Now it's Everest.


    Nope, it always was.

    > Pity again then that Everest reported the lifetime
    > Low and the Current temperature for a while,


    Nope. Never ever did.

    > not the Lifetime Low and Max as you suggest.


    Taint my suggestion, ****wit.

    > So if that applies to this particular older version of Everest


    No such animal.

    > the 42 was the actual temperature of the moment


    Nope.

    > and there's no saying of what the highest temperature
    > may have ever been. So, wrong again then, Rodney.


    Nope, you are, as always.






  13. Re: Not sure what to do about not receiving error messages

    news.rcn.com wrote:
    > "Rod Speed" wrote in message
    > news:6fihmsFbr1fqU1@mid.individual.net...
    >> Arno Wagner wrote:
    >>> Previously news.rcn.com wrote:
    >>>> The SMART part of the report looks like this and as I suggested, I
    >>>> was unable to find exception in any of it:
    >>>
    >>>> [ HTS421212H9AT00 (HKA414ALGTJPJE) ]
    >>>
    >>>> 01 Raw Read Error Rate 62 100 100 0 OK:
    >>>> Value is normal
    >>>> 02 Throughput Performance 40 100 100 0 OK:
    >>>> Value is normal
    >>>> 03 Spin Up Time 33 115 115 2
    >>>> OK: Value is normal
    >>>> 04 Start/Stop Count 0 98 98 4310 OK: Always passing
    >>>> 05 Reallocated Sector Count 5 100 100 0 OK:
    >>>> Value is normal
    >>>> 07 Seek Error Rate 67 100 100 0
    >>>> OK: Value is normal
    >>>> 08 Seek Time Performance 40 100 100 0 OK:
    >>>> Value is normal
    >>>> 09 Power-On Time Count 0 83 83 7803 OK:
    >>>> Always passing
    >>>> 0A Spin Retry Count 60 100 100 0 OK: Value is normal
    >>>> 0C Power Cycle Count 0 100 100 871 OK:
    >>>> Always passing
    >>>> BF G-Sense Error Rate 0 100 100 0 OK: Always passing
    >>>> C0 Power-Off Retract Count 0 100 100 41 OK:
    >>>> Always passing
    >>>> C1 Load/Unload Cycle Count 0 66 66 342566OK:
    >>>> Always passing
    >>>> C2 Temperature 0 130 130 9,
    >>>> 42 OK: Always passing
    >>>> C4 Reallocation Event Count 0 100 100 95 OK:
    >>>> Always passing
    >>>> C5 Current Pending Sector Count 0 100 100 0 OK:
    >>>> Always passing C6 Off-Line Uncorrectable Sector Count0 100
    >>>> 100 0 OK: Always passing C7 Ultra ATA CRC Error Rate 0
    >>>> 200 200 42 OK: Always
    >>>> passing
    >>>
    >>>> (I really am unsure about using torrents and havent dared try to
    >>>> download anything from them)
    >>>
    >>> This drive has a problem. Attribut C4 indicates 95 reallocation
    >>> events, while 05 indicates zero reallocated sectors (leat attribute
    >>> is raw). This may be due to the drive testing the sectors that
    >>> ahad read errors and finding nothing wrong with them. This in turn
    >>> means likely the sectors are fine and the problem is with the drive
    >>> or its environment. Mechanical shock, bad power and other factors
    >>> can cause sectors to be written badly. Marginal servo electronics
    >>> or can too. It is not clear whether the drive is to blame, but
    >>> it had 95 cases where ist could not read a sector. That is
    >>> far too high for reliable operation. If you have 1 unreadable
    >>> sector per year that may just be bad luck. Here something is very
    >>> wrong, but it may not be something with the disk.


    >>> Hmm. On a second look, this disk has gone though 342'566 load/unload
    >>> cycles. Notebook drives are only rated for about 500'000 of these


    > I am not sure whether a drive dating from the middle of 2006 can really be classified as an old drive which is coming
    > anywhere near the end of its working life?


    Corse it isnt, and its barely over half of the design number of load unload cycles too.

    > But I DO wonder what can be causing such a gigantic number of load/unload cycles in not particularly high usage over a
    > two year period?


    Thats what the OS has done with that drive, to minimise power use in a laptop running on battery.

    > Can this be something to do with the power supply not letting the drive write the sectors properly and something tells
    > the drive to keep on trying to write them


    Nope, nothing to do with that.

    > or is this something done at startup when SMART runs?


    Nope, nothing to do with that either.

    The OS decides that the drive isnt being used so unloads to minimise use of the battery in a laptop.

    >> So the drive is still well below the drive manufacturer's design value.
    >>> (desktop drives for 50'000). It is possible that the mechanics
    >>> of this one are dying just a little bit early and are getting
    >>> a tiny bit imprecise, enough to cause the occational bad write.

    >>
    >> But if that was true, you'd see it in the seek error rate and you
    >> dont.
    >>> A bad write then turns into a suspected bad sector, but when
    >>> testing it the drive finds nothing wrong and continues to use it.

    >>
    >>> I think you should replace the disk. I suspect it is staring to show
    >>> signs of old age.


    >> Its certainly got a problem, but that isnt old age.


    > As there appears at the least to be some question as to whether there is a problem with the drive or with the power
    > supply,


    That's just the squeeze's silly claim. Not a shred
    of evidence of any power supply involvement.

    > I have now had a chance to try this computer with another fresh drive. It has a fresh install of the OS for this
    > computer and on running DFT it
    > immediately found one of those mysterious bad sectors which it said
    > it replaced. Just like the other drive. Now, just like the other drive it reports nothing amiss with any sector on
    > further testing and runs OK.


    Post the Everest SMART report on that drive.

    > Again, or the computer runs OK for the moment and the PS has an intermittent fault resulting in the badly written
    > sectors which look to DFT like bad sectors until it's sector repair tries to 'repair' a sector which doesnt need
    > repairing?


    Unlikely. It will be interesting to see if the second drive has the same oddity,
    a significant C4 Reallocation event count with no reallocated sectors etc.



  14. Re: Not sure what to do about not receiving error messages

    Rod Speed wrote in news:6fp9klFcjnauU1@mid.individual.net
    > news.rcn.com wrote:
    > > "Rod Speed" wrote in message
    > > news:6fihmsFbr1fqU1@mid.individual.net...
    > > > Arno Wagner wrote:
    > > > > Previously news.rcn.com wrote:
    > > > > > The SMART part of the report looks like this and as I suggested,
    > > > > > I was unable to find exception in any of it:
    > > > >
    > > > > > [ HTS421212H9AT00 (HKA414ALGTJPJE) ]
    > > > >

    [snip clutter]
    > > > >
    > > > > > (I really am unsure about using torrents and havent dared try to
    > > > > > download anything from them)
    > > > >
    > > > > This drive has a problem. Attribut C4 indicates 95 reallocation
    > > > > events, while 05 indicates zero reallocated sectors (leat attribute
    > > > > is raw). This may be due to the drive testing the sectors that
    > > > > ahad read errors and finding nothing wrong with them. This in turn
    > > > > means likely the sectors are fine and the problem is with the drive
    > > > > or its environment. Mechanical shock, bad power and other factors
    > > > > can cause sectors to be written badly. Marginal servo electronics
    > > > > or can too. It is not clear whether the drive is to blame, but
    > > > > it had 95 cases where ist could not read a sector. That is
    > > > > far too high for reliable operation. If you have 1 unreadable
    > > > > sector per year that may just be bad luck. Here something is very
    > > > > wrong, but it may not be something with the disk.

    >
    > > > > Hmm. On a second look, this disk has gone though 342'566 load/unload
    > > > > cycles. Notebook drives are only rated for about 500'000 of these

    >
    > > I am not sure whether a drive dating from the middle of 2006 can really
    > > be classified as an old drive which is coming anywhere near the end of its
    > > working life?

    >
    > Corse it isnt, and its barely over half of the design number of load unload cycles too.
    >
    > > But I DO wonder what can be causing such a gigantic number of load/unload cycles
    > > in not particularly high usage over a two year period?


    > Thats what the OS has done with that drive, to minimise power use in a laptop running
    > on battery.


    Nope. The drive itself did.

    >
    > > Can this be something to do with the power supply not letting the drive write the
    > > sectors properly and something tells the drive to keep on trying to write them

    >
    > Nope, nothing to do with that.


    That 'something' doesn't even know that the drive blinked.
    Even if that 'something' is the drive itself as it will have done
    a reset and the data needed to rewrite the lost data is now gone.

    >
    > > or is this something done at startup when SMART runs?

    >
    > Nope, nothing to do with that either.


    > The OS decides that the drive isnt being used so unloads to minimise use of
    > the battery in a laptop.


    Wrong again. That is what the Battery Life Extender feature of that drive does.
    Windows has no say over it except when it is set even more rigourous than BLE.

    >
    > > > So the drive is still well below the drive manufacturer's design value.
    > > >
    > > > > (desktop drives for 50'000). It is possible that the mechanics
    > > > > of this one are dying just a little bit early and are getting
    > > > > a tiny bit imprecise, enough to cause the occational bad write.
    > > >
    > > > But if that was true, you'd see it in the seek error rate and you dont.
    > > >
    > > > > A bad write then turns into a suspected bad sector, but when
    > > > > testing it the drive finds nothing wrong and continues to use it.
    > > >
    > > > > I think you should replace the disk. I suspect it is staring to show
    > > > > signs of old age.

    >
    > > > Its certainly got a problem, but that isnt old age.

    >
    > > As there appears at the least to be some question as to whether
    > > there is a problem with the drive or with the power supply,


    > That's just the squeeze's silly claim. Not a shred
    > of evidence of any power supply involvement.


    Exactly, it's quite obviously the mobo that's been replaced twice already.
    It's crystal clear that it can't be the only part(s) that ha(s)(ve) not been
    replaced yet. Give it up, Roddy.

    >
    > > I have now had a chance to try this computer with another fresh drive.
    > > It has a fresh install of the OS for this computer and on running DFT
    > > it immediately found one of those mysterious bad sectors which it said
    > > it replaced. Just like the other drive. Now, just like the other drive it
    > > reports nothing amiss with any sector on further testing and runs OK.


    > Post the Everest SMART report on that drive.


    Like you can't have 2 perfectly fine drives, eh Rod.
    At least one must be dead. Preferably both.
    Still desperately trying to find that straw to kling on to, Roddles?

    >
    > > Again, or the computer runs OK for the moment and the PS has an
    > > intermittent fault resulting in the badly written sectors which look
    > > to DFT like bad sectors until it's sector repair tries to 'repair' a
    > > sector which doesnt need repairing?


    > Unlikely.


    Whatever is.

    > It will be interesting to see if the second drive has the same oddity,
    > a significant C4 Reallocation event count with no reallocated sectors etc.


    Whatever 'significant' is when the drive is only in there for a day.

    More interesting would be to have a report before and after DFT has run.
    Preferably a report not from Everest.

  15. Re: Not sure what to do about not receiving error messages

    Rod Speed wrote in news:6fp95aFcomjdU1@mid.individual.net
    > Squeeze wrote
    > > Rod Speed wrote
    > > > Squeeze wrote
    > > > > Rod Speed wrote
    > > > > > Squeeze wrote
    > > > > > > Rod Speed wrote
    > > > > > > > Squeeze wrote
    > > > > > > > > news.rcn.com wrote
    > > > > > > > > > Rod Speed wrote
    > > > > > > > > > > news.rcn.com wrote

    >
    > > > > > > > > > > > C2 Temperature 0 130 130 9, 42

    >
    > > > > > > > > > > That max of 42C is fine, so the bads cant have come from the drive
    > > > > > > > > > > getting stinking hot unless this SMART value has been reset too.

    >
    > > > > > > > > > No this drive doesnt get particularly hot at all.

    >
    > > > > > > > > The "9, 42" value is suspect anyway. Unfit for any conclusions whatsoever.

    >
    > > > > > > > Perfectly possible for a laptop drive to have those as max and min in C

    >
    > > > > > > IOW, you were merely speculating what that value stands for and haven't got a clue.

    >
    > > > > > Nope, I know that some drives do that field that way,

    >
    > > > > _"Some"_ drives, huh.

    >
    > > > Yep.

    >
    > > > > Thanks Rod for confirming the 'speculation' part.

    >
    > > > Nope, fact, actually.

    >
    > > > > A drive with a temperature sensor but one that doesn't give you the actual temperature.

    >
    > > > In the Everest report, yep.

    >
    > > Pity that you just said that it was the drives, Roddy.

    >
    > We already knew it was the Everest report being discussed, ****wit.
    >
    > > Now it's Everest.


    > Nope, it always was.


    So where's that 3rd temperature then, Rodboy.

    >
    > > Pity again then that Everest reported the lifetime
    > > Low and the Current temperature for a while,


    > Nope. Never ever did.


    Heheh. Gotcha.

    http://www.lavalys.com/forum/index.p...ic=107&pid=471
    Q
    Hi,
    I saw on some HDDs there are 3 values in the temp rawdata of SMART.
    When I look in Everest two values are shown (the actual temp and the Lifetime min temp).
    Why dont you write down the Lifetime Max Temp?
    For example i got an Fujitsu Notebook HDD that has 21 min 64 max and
    at the moment 51 actual. Everset says 21 and 51.
    regards
    dicht

    We actually already removed the monitoring of life-time lowest value,
    and only showing the current value on the Computer / Sensor page.
    Regards,
    Fiery
    \Q
    >
    > > not the Lifetime Low and Max as you suggested.


    > Taint my suggestion, ****wit.


    Must have been a brainfart then. One of many.

    >
    > > So if that applies to this particular older version of Everest

    >
    > No such animal.
    >
    > > the 42 was the actual temperature of the moment


    > Nope.


    Yep. Unless you know better than the author himself.
    Which, of course, you do.

    >
    > > and there's no saying of what the highest temperature
    > > may have ever been. So, wrong again then, Rodney.


    > Nope, you are, as always.


    In that little tiny space that you call your braincavity, Roddy.

    >


    Ooh, that must have hurt.

  16. Re: Not sure what to do about not receiving error messages

    Squeeze wrote
    > Rod Speed wrote
    >> Squeeze wrote
    >>> Rod Speed wrote
    >>>> Squeeze wrote
    >>>>> Rod Speed wrote
    >>>>>> Squeeze wrote
    >>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
    >>>>>>>> Squeeze wrote
    >>>>>>>>> news.rcn.com wrote
    >>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
    >>>>>>>>>>> news.rcn.com wrote


    >>>>>>>>>>>> C2 Temperature 0 130 130 9, 42


    >>>>>>>>>>> That max of 42C is fine, so the bads cant have come from
    >>>>>>>>>>> the drive getting stinking hot unless this SMART value has
    >>>>>>>>>>> been reset too.


    >>>>>>>>>> No this drive doesnt get particularly hot at all.


    >>>>>>>>> The "9, 42" value is suspect anyway. Unfit for any conclusions whatsoever.


    >>>>>>>> Perfectly possible for a laptop drive to have those as max and min in C


    >>>>>>> IOW, you were merely speculating what that value stands for and haven't got a clue.


    >>>>>> Nope, I know that some drives do that field that way,


    >>>>> _"Some"_ drives, huh.


    >>>> Yep.


    >>>>> Thanks Rod for confirming the 'speculation' part.


    >>>> Nope, fact, actually.


    >>>>> A drive with a temperature sensor but one that doesn't give you the actual temperature.


    >>>> In the Everest report, yep.


    >>> Pity that you just said that it was the drives, Roddy.


    >> We already knew it was the Everest report being discussed, ****wit.


    >>> Now it's Everest.


    >> Nope, it always was.


    > So where's that 3rd temperature then, Rodboy.


    Never said there was one, you ****wit pseudokraut.

    >>> Pity again then that Everest reported the lifetime
    >>> Low and the Current temperature for a while,

    >
    >> Nope. Never ever did.


    > Heheh. Gotcha.


    Only in your pathetic little drug crazed pseudokraut fantasyland.

    > http://www.lavalys.com/forum/index.p...ic=107&pid=471
    > Q
    > Hi,
    > I saw on some HDDs there are 3 values in the temp rawdata of SMART.
    > When I look in Everest two values are shown (the actual temp and the
    > Lifetime min temp). Why dont you write down the Lifetime Max Temp?
    > For example i got an Fujitsu Notebook HDD that has 21 min 64 max and
    > at the moment 51 actual. Everset says 21 and 51.


    Taint the version of Everest he is using, you stupid ****wit pseudokraut.

    And there is nothing 'suspect' about the temps even if that second
    figure is the current temp anyway, you ****wit pseudokraut.

    > We actually already removed the monitoring of life-time lowest value,
    > and only showing the current value on the Computer / Sensor page.
    > Regards,
    > Fiery
    > \Q


    Clearly not the version of Everest he is using, you stupid ****wit pseudokraut.





  17. Re: Not sure what to do about not receiving error messages

    Squeeze wrote
    > Rod Speed wrote
    >>> Rod Speed wrote
    >>>> Arno Wagner wrote
    >>>>> news.rcn.com wrote


    >>>>>> The SMART part of the report looks like this and as I suggested,
    >>>>>> I was unable to find exception in any of it:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> [ HTS421212H9AT00 (HKA414ALGTJPJE) ]
    >>>>>

    > [snip clutter]
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> (I really am unsure about using torrents and havent dared try to
    >>>>>> download anything from them)
    >>>>>
    >>>>> This drive has a problem. Attribut C4 indicates 95 reallocation
    >>>>> events, while 05 indicates zero reallocated sectors (leat
    >>>>> attribute is raw). This may be due to the drive testing the
    >>>>> sectors that
    >>>>> ahad read errors and finding nothing wrong with them. This in turn
    >>>>> means likely the sectors are fine and the problem is with the
    >>>>> drive or its environment. Mechanical shock, bad power and other
    >>>>> factors can cause sectors to be written badly. Marginal servo
    >>>>> electronics or can too. It is not clear whether the drive is to
    >>>>> blame, but
    >>>>> it had 95 cases where ist could not read a sector. That is
    >>>>> far too high for reliable operation. If you have 1 unreadable
    >>>>> sector per year that may just be bad luck. Here something is very
    >>>>> wrong, but it may not be something with the disk.

    >>
    >>>>> Hmm. On a second look, this disk has gone though 342'566
    >>>>> load/unload cycles. Notebook drives are only rated for about
    >>>>> 500'000 of these

    >>
    >>> I am not sure whether a drive dating from the middle of 2006 can
    >>> really
    >>> be classified as an old drive which is coming anywhere near the end
    >>> of its working life?

    >>
    >> Corse it isnt, and its barely over half of the design number of load
    >> unload cycles too.
    >>
    >>> But I DO wonder what can be causing such a gigantic number of
    >>> load/unload cycles in not particularly high usage over a two year
    >>> period?

    >
    >> Thats what the OS has done with that drive, to minimise power use in
    >> a laptop running on battery.


    > Nope. The drive itself did.


    Wrong, as always. The drive cant know when the laptop is running
    on battery and when it aint, you stupid ****wit pseudokraut.





  18. Re: Not sure what to do about not receiving error messages

    Rod Speed wrote in news:6fpmp8FcmgirU1@mid.individual.net
    > Squeeze wrote
    > > Rod Speed wrote
    > > > > Rod Speed wrote
    > > > > > Arno Wagner wrote
    > > > > > > news.rcn.com wrote

    >
    > > > > > > > The SMART part of the report looks like this and as I suggested,
    > > > > > > > I was unable to find exception in any of it:
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > [ HTS421212H9AT00 (HKA414ALGTJPJE) ]
    > > > > > >

    > > [snip clutter]

    [and more]
    > > > > But I DO wonder what can be causing such a gigantic number of
    > > > > load/unload cycles in not particularly high usage over a two year
    > > > > period?

    > >
    > > > Thats what the OS has done with that drive, to minimise power use in
    > > > a laptop running on battery.

    >
    > > Nope. The drive itself did.

    >
    > Wrong, as always. The drive cant know when the laptop is running
    > on battery and when it aint, you stupid ****wit pseudokraut.


    That's because it doesn't care, Roddy boy.

    That's what the Power Booster app is for, that controls it's behaviour,
    http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/suppor...m#Powerbooster
    where a user sets a slider between Battery Life saving and Performance.
    It can also be run with commands from batch, at startup.
    Powerbooster sets the drive to Performance when on AC.
    You have to set it to "Performance with AC Power mode" to have it monitor
    AC Power, otherwise it will make no distinction between AC and battery.

    Here's from a TravelStar manual:

    4.4.3.3 Adaptive power save control
    The transient timing from Performance Idle mode to Active Idle mode and
    Active Idle mode to Low Power Idle mode is controlled adaptively according
    to the access pattern of the host system. The transient timing from Low Power
    Idle mode to Standby mode is also controlled adaptively, if it is allowed by
    SetFeatures Enable Advanced Power Management subcommand.

    11.7 Advanced Power Management (ABLE-3) feature

    This feature provides power saving without performance degradation.
    The Adaptive Battery Life Extender 3 (ABLE-3) technology intelligently manages
    transition among power modes within the device by monitoring access patterns of
    the host. This technology has three idle modes; Performance Idle mode, Active
    Idle mode, and Low Power Idle mode.

    This feature allows the host to select an advanced power management level.
    The advanced powermanagement level is a scale from the lowest power consump-
    tion setting of 01h to the maximum performancelevel of FEh. Device performance
    may increase with increasing advanced power management levels. Device power
    consumption may increase with increasing advanced power management levels.
    The advanced power management levels contain discrete bands, described in
    the section of Set Feature command in detail.

    So yes, Roddy boy, it's the drive itself that decides to go into power
    saving mode, not Windows, unless Windows timing is set sharper than
    the drive's settings, which is unusual. In order to have Windows control
    it -and control it alone- Advanced Power Management has to be shut off.

    Like I said before, you have no clue about harddrives.





  19. Re: Not sure what to do about not receiving error messages

    Squeeze wrote
    > Rod Speed wrote
    >> Squeeze wrote
    >>> Rod Speed wrote
    >>>>> Rod Speed wrote
    >>>>>> Arno Wagner wrote
    >>>>>>> news.rcn.com wrote


    >>>>>>>> The SMART part of the report looks like this and as I
    >>>>>>>> suggested, I was unable to find exception in any of it:


    >>>>>>>> [ HTS421212H9AT00 (HKA414ALGTJPJE) ]


    >>>>> But I DO wonder what can be causing such a gigantic number of
    >>>>> load/unload cycles in not particularly high usage over a two year period?


    >>>> Thats what the OS has done with that drive, to minimise power use in a laptop running on battery.


    >>> Nope. The drive itself did.


    >> Wrong, as always. The drive cant know when the laptop is running
    >> on battery and when it aint, you stupid ****wit pseudokraut.


    > That's because it doesn't care, Roddy boy.


    Wrong, as always.

    > That's what the Power Booster app is for, that controls it's behaviour,
    > http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/suppor...m#Powerbooster
    > where a user sets a slider between Battery Life saving and Performance.


    Pity the OS can change that behaviour itself when it knows the laptop is
    running on battery and when its not and get a much better result on that.

    > It can also be run with commands from batch, at startup.


    Makes a hell of a lot more sense for the OS to control that behaviour
    on the fly as it sees the external power being applied and removed etc.

    > Powerbooster sets the drive to Performance when on AC.
    > You have to set it to "Performance with AC Power mode" to have it monitor
    > AC Power, otherwise it will make no distinction between AC and battery.


    Makes a hell of a lot more sense for the OS to do it instead.

    > Here's from a TravelStar manual:


    > 4.4.3.3 Adaptive power save control
    > The transient timing from Performance Idle mode to Active Idle mode
    > and Active Idle mode to Low Power Idle mode is controlled adaptively
    > according to the access pattern of the host system. The transient timing
    > from Low Power Idle mode to Standby mode is also controlled adaptively,
    > if it is allowed by SetFeatures Enable Advanced Power Management
    > subcommand.


    > 11.7 Advanced Power Management (ABLE-3) feature
    >
    > This feature provides power saving without performance degradation.
    > The Adaptive Battery Life Extender 3 (ABLE-3) technology
    > intelligently manages transition among power modes within the device
    > by monitoring access patterns of the host. This technology has three
    > idle modes; Performance Idle mode, Active Idle mode, and Low Power
    > Idle mode.
    >
    > This feature allows the host to select an advanced power management
    > level.
    > The advanced powermanagement level is a scale from the lowest power
    > consump- tion setting of 01h to the maximum performancelevel of FEh.
    > Device performance may increase with increasing advanced power
    > management levels. Device power consumption may increase with
    > increasing advanced power management levels.
    > The advanced power management levels contain discrete bands,
    > described in
    > the section of Set Feature command in detail.


    > So yes, Roddy boy, it's the drive itself that decides
    > to go into power saving mode, not Windows,


    Wrong, as always, most obviously when PowerBooster isnt being
    used, and that most often the case with decent modern OSs.

    > unless Windows timing is set sharper than the drive's settings, which is unusual.


    It aint at all unusual for PowerBooster to not be used, in fact its much more common.

    > In order to have Windows control it -and control it alone-
    > Advanced Power Management has to be shut off.


    Wrong, as always.

    As I said before, you dont have a ****ing clue about modern OSs or anything else at all either.



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