Agami - Storage

This is a discussion on Agami - Storage ; I'm looking at replacing a slew of legacy Netapp filers (F760, F880, etc) and am considering Agami among others. NAS virtualization is not an option as most of the filers are in pocket networks. Anyone have experience with Agami or ...

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Thread: Agami

  1. Agami

    I'm looking at replacing a slew of legacy Netapp filers (F760, F880, etc)
    and am considering Agami among others. NAS virtualization is not an option
    as most of the filers are in pocket networks.

    Anyone have experience with Agami or similar?



  2. Re: Agami

    Michael Kramer wrote:
    > I'm looking at replacing a slew of legacy Netapp filers (F760, F880, etc)
    > and am considering Agami among others. NAS virtualization is not an option
    > as most of the filers are in pocket networks.
    >
    > Anyone have experience with Agami or similar?


    I've never heard of the company or seen their stuff.

    Is your data important?

  3. Re: Agami

    On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 15:11:23 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
    wrote:

    >Michael Kramer wrote:
    >> I'm looking at replacing a slew of legacy Netapp filers (F760, F880, etc)
    >> and am considering Agami among others. NAS virtualization is not an option
    >> as most of the filers are in pocket networks.
    >>
    >> Anyone have experience with Agami or similar?

    >
    >I've never heard of the company or seen their stuff.
    >
    >Is your data important?


    www.agami.com

    I've not had any experience but the specs and whitepapers on the
    product are interesting. My biggest concern is always the file system
    itself, nothing else. That is the data lifeline so it needs to be
    rock-solid.

    I think it's worth an evaluation but I'd put it through the paces on
    data integrity. agamiFS has no real history comparitively.
    I'd consider putting it into production for non-critical data and make
    certain backups are 1) finishing without error and 2) test those
    backups regularly with random restores.

    It's alot of effort up front but, in my case, data integrity is
    paramount.

    ~F

  4. Re: Agami

    Faeandar wrote:
    > On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 15:11:23 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
    > wrote:
    >
    >>Michael Kramer wrote:
    >>> I'm looking at replacing a slew of legacy Netapp filers (F760, F880, etc)
    >>> and am considering Agami among others. NAS virtualization is not an option
    >>> as most of the filers are in pocket networks.
    >>>
    >>> Anyone have experience with Agami or similar?

    >>
    >>I've never heard of the company or seen their stuff.
    >>
    >>Is your data important?

    >
    > www.agami.com
    >
    > I've not had any experience but the specs and whitepapers on the
    > product are interesting. My biggest concern is always the file system
    > itself, nothing else. That is the data lifeline so it needs to be
    > rock-solid.


    I just looked at this spec sheet

    http://www.agami.com/client_files/ag...t_6136_web.pdf

    so apparently they're selling a box of sata drives as something
    enterprise.

    Also, at 33" deep, it's going fit in even less racks than a 12/24 slot LTO
    library.

    I won't even guess where the support call center is.

    I'd pass on this product real fast.





  5. Re: Agami

    On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 16:26:52 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
    wrote:

    >Faeandar wrote:
    >> On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 15:11:23 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Michael Kramer wrote:
    >>>> I'm looking at replacing a slew of legacy Netapp filers (F760, F880, etc)
    >>>> and am considering Agami among others. NAS virtualization is not an option
    >>>> as most of the filers are in pocket networks.
    >>>>
    >>>> Anyone have experience with Agami or similar?
    >>>
    >>>I've never heard of the company or seen their stuff.
    >>>
    >>>Is your data important?

    >>
    >> www.agami.com
    >>
    >> I've not had any experience but the specs and whitepapers on the
    >> product are interesting. My biggest concern is always the file system
    >> itself, nothing else. That is the data lifeline so it needs to be
    >> rock-solid.

    >
    >I just looked at this spec sheet
    >
    >http://www.agami.com/client_files/ag...t_6136_web.pdf
    >
    >so apparently they're selling a box of sata drives as something
    >enterprise.
    >
    >Also, at 33" deep, it's going fit in even less racks than a 12/24 slot LTO
    >library.
    >
    >I won't even guess where the support call center is.
    >
    >I'd pass on this product real fast.
    >
    >
    >


    Panasas and Isilon are both considered enterprise class storage and
    both use SATA. There's nothing wrong with SATA if you understand the
    limitations and do not expect it to perform outside of them.

    agami is multi-protocol, very dense, high throughput, has some
    apparently nice features like replication and snapshots, etc. I would
    assume it's less expensive too. If it's not less expensive then I do
    not see a win here; others have been around longer with more history
    so why go with a newcomer that is the same price and without any real
    benefit advantage?
    But I assume it's less expensive anyway.

    If it's something that fits your requirements and floats your boat for
    whatever reason it's worth an eval.

    ~F

  6. Re: Agami

    Faeandar wrote:
    > On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 16:26:52 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
    > wrote:
    >
    >>Faeandar wrote:
    >>> On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 15:11:23 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
    >>> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>Michael Kramer wrote:
    >>>>> I'm looking at replacing a slew of legacy Netapp filers (F760, F880, etc)
    >>>>> and am considering Agami among others. NAS virtualization is not an option
    >>>>> as most of the filers are in pocket networks.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Anyone have experience with Agami or similar?
    >>>>
    >>>>I've never heard of the company or seen their stuff.
    >>>>
    >>>>Is your data important?
    >>>
    >>> www.agami.com
    >>>
    >>> I've not had any experience but the specs and whitepapers on the
    >>> product are interesting. My biggest concern is always the file system
    >>> itself, nothing else. That is the data lifeline so it needs to be
    >>> rock-solid.

    >>
    >>I just looked at this spec sheet
    >>
    >>http://www.agami.com/client_files/ag...t_6136_web.pdf
    >>
    >>so apparently they're selling a box of sata drives as something
    >>enterprise.
    >>
    >>Also, at 33" deep, it's going fit in even less racks than a 12/24 slot LTO
    >>library.
    >>
    >>I won't even guess where the support call center is.
    >>
    >>I'd pass on this product real fast.
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Panasas and Isilon are both considered enterprise class storage and


    by who, pansasa and isilon?

    > both use SATA. There's nothing wrong with SATA if you understand the
    > limitations and do not expect it to perform outside of them.


    "enterprise" stuff should not have limitiations like flakey drives, or the
    only selling point is it costs "less" than something else.

    What would one call a storage system made with first rate drives, like SAS
    or FC? Enterprise Plus, Enhanced Enterprise, Synergy System XP5000
    Extended?

    SATA is second rate storage, and may be suitable for massive amounts of
    stuff you want to access without fetching a tape. That's really about it.

    It might be ok in a workstation as well. I finally trust it enough to use
    in my workstation, although with a RAID controller.

    > agami is multi-protocol, very dense, high throughput, has some
    > apparently nice features like replication and snapshots, etc. I would


    Do any of these features work? I can't find a single story of anybody
    using anything from agami.

    > assume it's less expensive too. If it's not less expensive then I do
    > not see a win here; others have been around longer with more history
    > so why go with a newcomer that is the same price and without any real
    > benefit advantage?
    > But I assume it's less expensive anyway.
    >
    > If it's something that fits your requirements and floats your boat for
    > whatever reason it's worth an eval.
    >
    > ~F


  7. Re: Agami

    On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:51:24 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
    >>>

    >>
    >> Panasas and Isilon are both considered enterprise class storage and

    >
    >by who, pansasa and isilon?


    www.panasas.com
    www.isilon.com

    Used heavily in media, oil & gas, movie studio, and chip design.

    >
    >> both use SATA. There's nothing wrong with SATA if you understand the
    >> limitations and do not expect it to perform outside of them.

    >
    >"enterprise" stuff should not have limitiations like flakey drives, or the
    >only selling point is it costs "less" than something else.
    >
    >What would one call a storage system made with first rate drives, like SAS
    >or FC? Enterprise Plus, Enhanced Enterprise, Synergy System XP5000
    >Extended?


    Enterprise class storage is self-defined unless you want the vendor to
    define it for you. For instance, enterprise class might be anything
    where the *data* is protected by N mechanisms, regardless of the
    underlying drives. If I can tell a system to triple mirror certain
    directories, mirror others, and raid 5 the rest across N storage
    bricks, that to me is pretty enterprise. I might not care what the
    physical drives are since the *system* is extremely protective.

    Read up on the spec's for the above mentioned vendors for some
    additional info.

    >
    >SATA is second rate storage, and may be suitable for massive amounts of
    >stuff you want to access without fetching a tape. That's really about it.
    >
    >It might be ok in a workstation as well. I finally trust it enough to use
    >in my workstation, although with a RAID controller.


    I think you're confusing "storage" with "drive". They are no longer
    synonymous and have not been for about a decade.

    >
    >> agami is multi-protocol, very dense, high throughput, has some
    >> apparently nice features like replication and snapshots, etc. I would

    >
    >Do any of these features work? I can't find a single story of anybody
    >using anything from agami.


    I have no idea. That's the point of an eval, to determine what works,
    what doesn't, and what you care about. The OP asked about the system,
    no one really knows, so I told him to eval it if the spec's fit his
    requirements.

    ~F

  8. Re: Agami

    Faeandar wrote:
    > On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:51:24 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Panasas and Isilon are both considered enterprise class storage and

    >>
    >>by who, pansasa and isilon?

    >
    > www.panasas.com


    I took a quick look here- all that was impressive was the level of
    bull**** talk. Here are my favorites:

    Leveraging Object-Based Architecture
    Scalable Storage for Linux Clusters - Market Evolution
    Customer-centric support including a personalized customer extranet site
    Low Total Cost of Ownership: Easy to use appliance-like management of a
    virtually boundless system



    > www.isilon.com


    This site actually uses real technical terms, and lists specs on their
    product spec sheets vs. the other place with nothing but marketing
    bull****.





  9. Re: Agami

    On Tue, 6 May 2008 05:37:27 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
    wrote:

    >Faeandar wrote:
    >> On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:51:24 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Panasas and Isilon are both considered enterprise class storage and
    >>>
    >>>by who, pansasa and isilon?

    >>
    >> www.panasas.com

    >
    >I took a quick look here- all that was impressive was the level of
    >bull**** talk. Here are my favorites:
    >
    >Leveraging Object-Based Architecture
    >Scalable Storage for Linux Clusters - Market Evolution
    >Customer-centric support including a personalized customer extranet site
    >Low Total Cost of Ownership: Easy to use appliance-like management of a
    > virtually boundless system
    >
    >
    >
    >> www.isilon.com

    >
    >This site actually uses real technical terms, and lists specs on their
    >product spec sheets vs. the other place with nothing but marketing
    >bull****.
    >
    >
    >



    I don't think you were reading hard enough then. Panasas is one of
    only two storage architectures to you use object based storage which,
    by many accounts, is the next generation of storage (Lustre is the
    other).
    Panasas is one of only two vendors to have a client that acts as a
    pNFS client allowing direct access to the node that houses the data
    rather than through cluster interconnects (Ibrix is the other). In
    fact, the pNFS code that is being used as the standard in NFSv4.1 was
    provided in large part by Panasas.

    Isilon has a good story for a specific workload, large file and
    sequential access, but they suck on small file or random IO.
    Panasas's architecture has alot going for it. I'm not interested in
    elaborating beyond what I've already done but to say they are
    unimpressive is to be short-sighted.

    ~F

  10. Re: Agami

    Faeandar wrote:
    > On Tue, 6 May 2008 05:37:27 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
    > wrote:
    >
    >>Faeandar wrote:
    >>> On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:51:24 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Panasas and Isilon are both considered enterprise class storage and
    >>>>
    >>>>by who, pansasa and isilon?
    >>>
    >>> www.panasas.com

    >>
    >>I took a quick look here- all that was impressive was the level of
    >>bull**** talk. Here are my favorites:
    >>
    >>Leveraging Object-Based Architecture
    >>Scalable Storage for Linux Clusters - Market Evolution
    >>Customer-centric support including a personalized customer extranet site
    >>Low Total Cost of Ownership: Easy to use appliance-like management of a
    >> virtually boundless system
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>> www.isilon.com

    >>
    >>This site actually uses real technical terms, and lists specs on their
    >>product spec sheets vs. the other place with nothing but marketing
    >>bull****.
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >
    >
    > I don't think you were reading hard enough then. Panasas is one of
    > only two storage architectures to you use object based storage which,
    > by many accounts, is the next generation of storage (Lustre is the
    > other).


    I really didn't dig for more than about 10 minutes per site. The panasas
    stuff stuck me as complete marketing nonsense. Maybe there's something
    real behind it all, but they really don't tout anything tangible.

    They are companies selling stuff. If they do a poor job of that, they
    will fail, good technology or not.

    It would actually be nice to see some other players in the storage market,
    as long as they can make a real product and support it correctly, without
    customer centric syngery portals.

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