Quietness of 2.5" vs. 1.8" Notebook Drives - Storage

This is a discussion on Quietness of 2.5" vs. 1.8" Notebook Drives - Storage ; I need to replace a 2.5" notebook drive. I can just purchase another 2.5" drive, or there's the possibility of getting a 1.8" drive and a 2.5" - to - 1.8" drive adapter. What II'm curious to know is if ...

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Thread: Quietness of 2.5" vs. 1.8" Notebook Drives

  1. Quietness of 2.5" vs. 1.8" Notebook Drives

    I need to replace a 2.5" notebook drive. I can just purchase another
    2.5" drive, or there's the possibility of getting a 1.8" drive and a
    2.5" - to - 1.8" drive adapter. What II'm curious to know is if anyone
    knows to what degree the 1.8" drives are quieter than the 2.5" drives.
    They all seem to run at 4200 rpms, so I would think the smaller moter
    and platter would make for a quieter drive. The problem is this is
    just an assumption. I've looked for dB ratings for the smaller drives
    but haven't found any as of yet.

    If anyone has any dB info or any personal experience with these two
    different size drives, I'd appreciate your sharing this knowledge.

    Thank you.

    William

  2. Re: Quietness of 2.5" vs. 1.8" Notebook Drives

    hi william. bear in mind that a 4200 drive will give even more
    miserable performance than a 5400 drive. although it should be
    marginally quieter. a 10k raptor drive in comparison is a bit of a
    tiger.
    i've just swapped out my mechanical drive and replaced it with an 8Gb
    compact flash card + IDE adaptor. the laptop is now totally silent
    except for the quiet fan, and the performance benefit is amazing,
    vista boots in about 15 seconds and programs load and close
    instantly. vLite enabled a 2Gb vista installation and i don't need a
    whole of software on the laptop anyway (office, visual studio, sql
    server etc) so it has turned out great. thought you may be interested
    if you want to reduce noise. getting rid of the hard drive should
    also extend battery life, but i accept that not everyone will be happy
    with such limited storage space. you could get a cheap 8 or 16 Gb USB
    drive to help. a guide to the steps i took is online at
    http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=219225

    tim

    On Apr 6, 11:59 am, wj7...@netscape.net wrote:
    > I need to replace a 2.5" notebook drive. I can just purchase another
    > 2.5" drive, or there's the possibility of getting a 1.8" drive and a
    > 2.5" - to - 1.8" drive adapter. What II'm curious to know is if anyone
    > knows to what degree the 1.8" drives are quieter than the 2.5" drives.
    > They all seem to run at 4200 rpms, so I would think the smaller moter
    > and platter would make for a quieter drive. The problem is this is
    > just an assumption. I've looked for dB ratings for the smaller drives
    > but haven't found any as of yet.
    >
    > If anyone has any dB info or any personal experience with these two
    > different size drives, I'd appreciate your sharing this knowledge.
    >
    > Thank you.
    >
    > William



  3. Re: Quietness of 2.5" vs. 1.8" Notebook Drives

    Tim,

    Thanks for your post. A Flash drive is a great idea, but I need more
    space as the 2.5 laptop drive has been used in a desktop unit for its
    relative quietness compared to a regular 3.5" drive. So I guess I'll
    stay with another 2.5" drive.

    Thanks again.

    William

    On Apr 8, 5:49 pm, Tim_Mac wrote:
    > hi william. bear in mind that a 4200 drive will give even more
    > miserable performance than a 5400 drive. although it should be
    > m++arginally quieter. a 10k raptor drive in comparison is a bit of a
    > tiger.
    > i've just swapped out my mechanical drive and repla+ced it with an 8Gb
    > compact flash card + IDE adaptor. the laptop is now totally silent
    > except for the quiet fan, and the performance benefit is amazing,
    > vista boots in about 15 seconds and programs load and close
    > instantly. vLite enabled a 2Gb vista installation and i don't need a
    > whole of software on the laptop anyway (office, visual studio, sql
    > server etc) so it has turned out great. thought you may be interested
    > if you want to reduce noise. getting rid of the hard drive should
    > also extend battery life, but i accept that not everyone will be happy
    > with such limited storage space. you could get a cheap 8 or 16 Gb USB
    > drive to help. a guide to the steps i took is online athttp://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=219225
    >
    > tim



  4. Re: Quietness of 2.5" vs. 1.8" Notebook Drives

    Tim_Mac wrote:



    > i've just swapped out my mechanical drive and replaced it with an 8Gb
    > compact flash card + IDE adaptor. the laptop is now totally silent
    > except for the quiet fan, and the performance benefit is amazing,
    > vista boots in about 15 seconds and programs load and close
    > instantly. vLite enabled a 2Gb vista installation and i don't need a
    > whole of software on the laptop anyway (office, visual studio, sql
    > server etc) so it has turned out great. thought you may be interested
    > if you want to reduce noise. getting rid of the hard drive should
    > also extend battery life, but i accept that not everyone will be happy
    > with such limited storage space. you could get a cheap 8 or 16 Gb USB
    > drive to help. a guide to the steps i took is online at
    > http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=219225




    Hello, Tim:

    I followed the link you've provided, above...still, I'd be concerned about
    flash memory's relatively limited number of rewrite cycles (approximately
    100,000, typically), if I were you.

    Good luck!


    Cordially,
    John Turco

  5. Re: Quietness of 2.5" vs. 1.8" Notebook Drives

    On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 06:10:58 -0500 John Turco wrote
    in Message id: <47FF4742.D30883@concentric.net>:

    >Tim_Mac wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >> i've just swapped out my mechanical drive and replaced it with an 8Gb
    >> compact flash card + IDE adaptor. the laptop is now totally silent
    >> except for the quiet fan, and the performance benefit is amazing,
    >> vista boots in about 15 seconds and programs load and close
    >> instantly. vLite enabled a 2Gb vista installation and i don't need a
    >> whole of software on the laptop anyway (office, visual studio, sql
    >> server etc) so it has turned out great. thought you may be interested
    >> if you want to reduce noise. getting rid of the hard drive should
    >> also extend battery life, but i accept that not everyone will be happy
    >> with such limited storage space. you could get a cheap 8 or 16 Gb USB
    >> drive to help. a guide to the steps i took is online at
    >> http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=219225

    >
    >
    >
    >Hello, Tim:
    >
    >I followed the link you've provided, above...still, I'd be concerned about
    >flash memory's relatively limited number of rewrite cycles (approximately
    >100,000, typically), if I were you.


    Some industrial flash is good for 2 million writes. Combine that with wear
    leveling this is not as bad as you might think. We've shipped over a
    thousand XP embedded systems on CF in the last few years, and I've yet to
    see a drive wear out.

  6. Re: Quietness of 2.5" vs. 1.8" Notebook Drives

    JW wrote:
    >
    > On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 06:10:58 -0500 John Turco wrote
    > in Message id: <47FF4742.D30883@concentric.net>:
    >
    > >Tim_Mac wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >> i've just swapped out my mechanical drive and replaced it with an 8Gb
    > >> compact flash card + IDE adaptor. the laptop is now totally silent
    > >> except for the quiet fan, and the performance benefit is amazing,
    > >> vista boots in about 15 seconds and programs load and close
    > >> instantly. vLite enabled a 2Gb vista installation and i don't need a
    > >> whole of software on the laptop anyway (office, visual studio, sql
    > >> server etc) so it has turned out great. thought you may be interested
    > >> if you want to reduce noise. getting rid of the hard drive should
    > >> also extend battery life, but i accept that not everyone will be happy
    > >> with such limited storage space. you could get a cheap 8 or 16 Gb USB
    > >> drive to help. a guide to the steps i took is online at
    > >> http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=219225

    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >Hello, Tim:
    > >
    > >I followed the link you've provided, above...still, I'd be concerned about
    > >flash memory's relatively limited number of rewrite cycles (approximately
    > >100,000, typically), if I were you.

    >
    > Some industrial flash is good for 2 million writes. Combine that with wear
    > leveling this is not as bad as you might think. We've shipped over a
    > thousand XP embedded systems on CF in the last few years, and I've yet to
    > see a drive wear out.



    Hello, JW:

    Oh, I was already aware of "wear leveling," but, didn't know about that "2
    million writes" stuff.

    Thanks, for the info!


    Cordially,
    John Turco

  7. Re: Quietness of 2.5" vs. 1.8" Notebook Drives

    "John Turco" wrote in message news:4801CA94.553D1020@concentric.net...
    > JW wrote:
    >>
    >> On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 06:10:58 -0500 John Turco wrote
    >> in Message id: <47FF4742.D30883@concentric.net>:
    >>
    >> >I followed the link you've provided, above...still, I'd be concerned about
    >> >flash memory's relatively limited number of rewrite cycles (approximately
    >> >100,000, typically), if I were you.

    >>
    >> Some industrial flash is good for 2 million writes. Combine that with wear
    >> leveling this is not as bad as you might think. We've shipped over a
    >> thousand XP embedded systems on CF in the last few years, and I've yet to
    >> see a drive wear out.

    >
    > Oh, I was already aware of "wear leveling," but, didn't know about that "2
    > million writes" stuff.
    >

    If you knew about wear leveling all along,
    why do continue to post your paranoid claim about flash memory "wearing out"?

  8. Re: Quietness of 2.5" vs. 1.8" Notebook Drives

    Eric Gisin wrote:
    >
    > "John Turco" wrote in message news:4801CA94.553D1020@concentric.net...
    > > JW wrote:
    > >>
    > >> On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 06:10:58 -0500 John Turco wrote
    > >> in Message id: <47FF4742.D30883@concentric.net>:
    > >>
    > >> >I followed the link you've provided, above...still, I'd be concerned about
    > >> >flash memory's relatively limited number of rewrite cycles (approximately
    > >> >100,000, typically), if I were you.
    > >>
    > >> Some industrial flash is good for 2 million writes. Combine that with wear
    > >> leveling this is not as bad as you might think. We've shipped over a
    > >> thousand XP embedded systems on CF in the last few years, and I've yet to
    > >> see a drive wear out.

    > >
    > > Oh, I was already aware of "wear leveling," but, didn't know about that "2
    > > million writes" stuff.
    > >

    > If you knew about wear leveling all along,
    > why do continue to post your paranoid claim about flash memory "wearing out"?



    Hello, Eric:

    No "paranoia" involved, wise guy. Besides, if the Windows "page file" is
    enabled, even 2,000,000 write cycles will be used up, pretty quickly -- wear
    leveling, or not.


    Cordially,
    John Turco

  9. Re: Quietness of 2.5" vs. 1.8" Notebook Drives

    "John Turco" wrote in message news:48080A66.F79460DA@concentric.net...
    > Eric Gisin wrote:
    >>
    >> >
    >> > Oh, I was already aware of "wear leveling," but, didn't know about that "2
    >> > million writes" stuff.
    >> >

    >> If you knew about wear leveling all along,
    >> why do continue to post your paranoid claim about flash memory "wearing out"?

    >
    >
    > Hello, Eric:
    >
    > No "paranoia" involved, wise guy. Besides, if the Windows "page file" is
    > enabled, even 2,000,000 write cycles will be used up, pretty quickly -- wear
    > leveling, or not.
    >

    Raving Lunatic. Page file I/O is *much* less than your total I/O. Get some RAM if not.

  10. Re: Quietness of 2.5" vs. 1.8" Notebook Drives

    Eric Gisin wrote
    > John Turco wrote
    >> Eric Gisin wrote


    >>>> Oh, I was already aware of "wear leveling," but, didn't know about that "2 million writes" stuff.


    >>> If you knew about wear leveling all along, why do continue to post your paranoid claim about flash memory "wearing
    >>> out"?



    >> No "paranoia" involved, wise guy.


    >> Besides, if the Windows "page file" is enabled, even 2,000,000 write cycles will be used up, pretty quickly -- wear
    >> leveling, or not.


    > Raving Lunatic.


    Easy to claim, hell of a lot harder to actually substantiate that claim.

    > Page file I/O is *much* less than your total I/O.


    What matters is the write I/O. Your claim is just plain wrong with many Win systems.

    > Get some RAM if not.


    You still get page file write I/O even with the maximum ram the system can handle.



  11. Re: Quietness of 2.5" vs. 1.8" Notebook Drives

    Previously John Turco wrote:
    > Eric Gisin wrote:
    >>
    >> "John Turco" wrote in message news:4801CA94.553D1020@concentric.net...
    >> > JW wrote:
    >> >>
    >> >> On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 06:10:58 -0500 John Turco wrote
    >> >> in Message id: <47FF4742.D30883@concentric.net>:
    >> >>
    >> >> >I followed the link you've provided, above...still, I'd be concerned about
    >> >> >flash memory's relatively limited number of rewrite cycles (approximately
    >> >> >100,000, typically), if I were you.
    >> >>
    >> >> Some industrial flash is good for 2 million writes. Combine that with wear
    >> >> leveling this is not as bad as you might think. We've shipped over a
    >> >> thousand XP embedded systems on CF in the last few years, and I've yet to
    >> >> see a drive wear out.
    >> >
    >> > Oh, I was already aware of "wear leveling," but, didn't know about that "2
    >> > million writes" stuff.
    >> >

    >> If you knew about wear leveling all along,
    >> why do continue to post your paranoid claim about flash memory "wearing out"?



    > Hello, Eric:


    > No "paranoia" involved, wise guy. Besides, if the Windows "page
    > file" is enabled, even 2,000,000 write cycles will be used up,
    > pretty quickly -- wear leveling, or not.


    No flash can do 2'000'000 writes per cell. That is after wear
    leveling and/or ECC. SLC flash does around 100'000 writes reliably
    per cell. MLC is still stuck in the 10'000 range. However wear leveling
    and ECC are facts and will extend device life significantly.
    Some flash drives can even do defect remapping, AFAIK, which will
    extend device life even more.

    There are also things you can do to reduce wear. One thing is
    realizing that pageing actually can be done on ramdisk to a degree.
    Surprising, but true. Pageing is not only about having more memory,
    but also about being able to use precious direcly mapped memopry in
    multiple instances. Some OSes do not need to do that. Linux, for
    example, runns pretty well without swap-space. XP is braind-damaged
    that way and needs some minimal amount, which can be provided
    on ramdisk.

    Side note: The german computer magazine c't occasinally tries
    to break FLASH devices by overwriting. So far they have not
    succeeded with current memory sticks and SSDs.

    Arno

  12. Re: Quietness of 2.5" vs. 1.8" Notebook Drives

    On 18 Apr 2008 04:29:00 GMT Arno Wagner wrote in Message
    id: <66qmccF2jc12hU1@mid.individual.net>:

    >No flash can do 2'000'000 writes per cell.



    http://ec.transcendusa.com/product/I...ID=TS8GCF45I-D
    "Endurance: 2,000,000 Program/Erase cycles"


  13. Re: Quietness of 2.5" vs. 1.8" Notebook Drives

    Previously JW wrote:
    > On 18 Apr 2008 04:29:00 GMT Arno Wagner wrote in Message
    > id: <66qmccF2jc12hU1@mid.individual.net>:


    >>No flash can do 2'000'000 writes per cell.



    > http://ec.transcendusa.com/product/I...ID=TS8GCF45I-D
    > "Endurance: 2,000,000 Program/Erase cycles"


    I stated "per cell". They state nothing, so likely "per device"
    as manufacturers tend to pick the biggest number.

    Maybe also the "Built-in dynamic defect management and error
    correction ECC technology" is a hint?

    Arno

  14. Re: Quietness of 2.5" vs. 1.8" Notebook Drives

    On 18 Apr 2008 12:09:39 GMT Arno Wagner wrote in Message
    id: <66rhc3F2lh7s3U1@mid.individual.net>:

    >Previously JW wrote:
    >> On 18 Apr 2008 04:29:00 GMT Arno Wagner wrote in Message
    >> id: <66qmccF2jc12hU1@mid.individual.net>:

    >
    >>>No flash can do 2'000'000 writes per cell.

    >
    >
    >> http://ec.transcendusa.com/product/I...ID=TS8GCF45I-D
    >> "Endurance: 2,000,000 Program/Erase cycles"

    >
    >I stated "per cell". They state nothing, so likely "per device"
    >as manufacturers tend to pick the biggest number.


    I dunno, I'm figuring that they mean the entire device. But I could be
    wrong.

  15. Re: Quietness of 2.5" vs. 1.8" Notebook Drives

    "JW" wrote in message news:1gbh04ddmiifecps7j04c9t8ut30q1k7pr@4ax.com...
    > On 18 Apr 2008 12:09:39 GMT Arno Wagner wrote in Message
    > id: <66rhc3F2lh7s3U1@mid.individual.net>:
    >
    >>Previously JW wrote:
    >>> On 18 Apr 2008 04:29:00 GMT Arno Wagner wrote in Message
    >>> id: <66qmccF2jc12hU1@mid.individual.net>:

    >>
    >>>>No flash can do 2'000'000 writes per cell.

    >>
    >>
    >>> http://ec.transcendusa.com/product/I...ID=TS8GCF45I-D
    >>> "Endurance: 2,000,000 Program/Erase cycles"

    >>
    >>I stated "per cell". They state nothing, so likely "per device"
    >>as manufacturers tend to pick the biggest number.

    >
    > I dunno, I'm figuring that they mean the entire device. But I could be
    > wrong.


    Which implies you could kill the drive in a few hours of writing.

    Millions of people use flash drive for TEMP, browser cache, pagefile, ready-boost.
    You would expect many reports of them failing if writing too much was a problem.
    It would take about a month for my IE cache to reach 1GB, or 2M blocks.
    The directory entries and index.dat are frequently rewritten.

  16. Re: Quietness of 2.5" vs. 1.8" Notebook Drives

    Previously JW wrote:
    > On 18 Apr 2008 12:09:39 GMT Arno Wagner wrote in Message
    > id: <66rhc3F2lh7s3U1@mid.individual.net>:


    >>Previously JW wrote:
    >>> On 18 Apr 2008 04:29:00 GMT Arno Wagner wrote in Message
    >>> id: <66qmccF2jc12hU1@mid.individual.net>:

    >>
    >>>>No flash can do 2'000'000 writes per cell.

    >>
    >>
    >>> http://ec.transcendusa.com/product/I...ID=TS8GCF45I-D
    >>> "Endurance: 2,000,000 Program/Erase cycles"

    >>
    >>I stated "per cell". They state nothing, so likely "per device"
    >>as manufacturers tend to pick the biggest number.


    > I dunno, I'm figuring that they mean the entire device. But I could be
    > wrong.


    Well, same here. Basically it is unclear what the number means.

    Arno

  17. Re: Quietness of 2.5" vs. 1.8" Notebook Drives

    fact is... flash memory has been used successfully for a long time
    before it's current mainstream introduction. but it is new to a lot
    of people who don't trust it, which is also understandable. if you
    are a skeptic, then wait another 5 years until you're comfortable with
    it. in the meantime, let the early adopters prove you right or wrong,
    either way they're doing you a favour

  18. Re: Quietness of 2.5" vs. 1.8" Notebook Drives

    Eric Gisin wrote
    > Rod Speed wrote
    >> Eric Gisin wrote
    >>> John Turco wrote
    >>>> Eric Gisin wrote


    >>>> Besides, if the Windows "page file" is enabled, even 2,000,000
    >>>> write cycles will be used up, pretty quickly -- wear leveling, or not.


    >>> Raving Lunatic.


    >> Easy to claim, hell of a lot harder to actually substantiate that claim.


    > Trivial to measure,


    Nope, not with the vast raft of systems in use out there.

    > Grab an old HD, put pagefile on it, and compare disk's IO on with perfmon.


    Says sweet **** all about how many use the amount of physical ram used in that test.

    >>> Page file I/O is *much* less than your total I/O.


    >> What matters is the write I/O. Your claim is just plain wrong with many Win systems.


    > Bull****, Rodbot. There is much more MFT and logfile IO than pagefile IO.


    Easy to claim, hell of a lot harder to actually substantiate
    that claim with the average system in use out there.

    >>> Get some RAM if not.


    >> You still get page file write I/O even with the maximum ram the system can handle.


    > Which does not slow your system down, because it happens when disk are idle.


    Irrelevant to whether its writes that may well be relevant to the life of flash memory.



  19. Re: Quietness of 2.5" vs. 1.8" Notebook Drives

    John Turco wrote in news:48080A66.F79460DA@concentric.net
    > Eric Gisin wrote:
    > > "John Turco" jtur@concentric.net> wrote in message news:4801CA94.553D1020@concentric.net...
    > > > JW wrote:
    > > > > On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 06:10:58 -0500 John Turco jtur@concentric.net wrote in Message id: <47FF4742.D30883@concentric.net>:
    > > > >
    > > > > > I followed the link you've provided, above...still, I'd be concerned
    > > > > > about flash memory's relatively limited number of rewrite cycles
    > > > > > (approximately 100,000, typically), if I were you.
    > > > >
    > > > > Some industrial flash is good for 2 million writes. Combine that with
    > > > > wear leveling this is not as bad as you might think. We've shipped over
    > > > > a thousand XP embedded systems on CF in the last few years, and I've
    > > > > yet to see a drive wear out.
    > > >
    > > > Oh, I was already aware of "wear leveling," but, didn't know about that "2
    > > > million writes" stuff.
    > > >

    > > If you knew about wear leveling all along, why do continue to post
    > > your paranoid claim about flash memory "wearing out"?

    >
    >
    > Hello, Eric:
    >
    > No "paranoia" involved, wise guy. Besides, if the Windows "page file"
    > is enabled, even 2,000,000 write cycles will be used up, pretty quickly --


    You call JW a liar, Turco?

    > wear leveling, or not.


    Well, there's the stupidity in that statement.
    It's either 2,000,000 write cycles *with* or *without* wear leveling. If
    without then obviously that's of no concern _unless_ the whole drive is used
    for pagefile and all the 8GB is *actually used*, begin to end, cancelling out
    wear leveling. That's a hell of a lot of paging.

    >
    >
    > Cordially,
    > John Turco


  20. Re: Quietness of 2.5" vs. 1.8" Notebook Drives

    Arno Wagner wrote in news:66ruq5F2ll2asU1@mid.individual.net
    > Previously JW wrote:
    > > On 18 Apr 2008 12:09:39 GMT Arno Wagner me@privacy.net> wrote in Messageid: 66rhc3F2lh7s3U1@mid.individual.net:
    > > > Previously JW wrote:
    > > > > On 18 Apr 2008 04:29:00 GMT Arno Wagner me@privacy.net> wrote in Messageid: <66qmccF2jc12hU1@mid.individual.net>:
    > > >
    > > > > > No flash can do 2'000'000 writes per cell.
    > > >
    > > > > http://ec.transcendusa.com/product/I...ID=TS8GCF45I-D
    > > > > "Endurance: 2,000,000 Program/Erase cycles"
    > > >
    > > > I stated "per cell". They state nothing, so likely "per device"
    > > > as manufacturers tend to pick the biggest number.


    In which case this number would actually be awfully low.

    >
    > > I dunno, I'm figuring that they mean the entire device. But I could be
    > > wrong.


    > Well, same here. Basically it is unclear what the number means.


    And obviously it is far to difficult to compare them whith other ca-
    pacities within the same product range and get a clue, right babblebot.

    >
    > Arno


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