drive keeps having partition problems - Storage

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  1. drive keeps having partition problems

    I have a friend with a 250GB Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 SATA (in a Win
    XP Pro machine) that's throwing weird partition issues at the drop of
    a hat.

    Last week, after the PC crashed in a game, the entire drive (3 primary
    NTFS partitions) became inaccessible. Partition Magic 8 showed it as
    one errored partition. I could get data off any of the three
    partitions with a partition recovery program, but not actually restore
    the partitions themselves. I finally had to 0-out the drive and re-
    partition.

    Now, yesterday, a power surge during a rain storm (he really does know
    better than that) it powered down, and when it came back, the first
    (active) partition (this time FAT32) was showing as unformatted! (At
    least the other 2 partitions are still there and Partition magic can
    "see" them.)

    All CHKDSK tests, Partition Magic tests, other drive checking programs
    all discover no errors with the drive. (Well, once it's partitioned
    and formatted).
    Any ideas?
    Thanks,
    Liam

  2. Re: drive keeps having partition problems

    In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage mechphisto@gmail.com wrote:
    > I have a friend with a 250GB Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 SATA (in a Win
    > XP Pro machine) that's throwing weird partition issues at the drop of
    > a hat.


    > Last week, after the PC crashed in a game, the entire drive (3 primary
    > NTFS partitions) became inaccessible. Partition Magic 8 showed it as
    > one errored partition. I could get data off any of the three
    > partitions with a partition recovery program, but not actually restore
    > the partitions themselves. I finally had to 0-out the drive and re-
    > partition.


    > Now, yesterday, a power surge during a rain storm (he really does know
    > better than that) it powered down, and when it came back, the first
    > (active) partition (this time FAT32) was showing as unformatted! (At
    > least the other 2 partitions are still there and Partition magic can
    > "see" them.)


    > All CHKDSK tests, Partition Magic tests, other drive checking programs
    > all discover no errors with the drive. (Well, once it's partitioned
    > and formatted).
    > Any ideas?
    > Thanks,
    > Liam


    Potential reasons:

    Driver or hardware issues that cause transient problems and
    prevent timely write-back of information (unlikely) or cause
    writes to the wring areas. It may be faulty RAM. It may be
    a faultu cache entry or the like.

    What would be interesting is whether there is any other
    data corruption and what its exact form is (e.g.
    is there an all-zero sector or is some other data in it).

    Have you looked at the SMART attributes (any other test is
    really quite meaningless today) and tun a long SMART selftest?

    Arno

  3. Re: drive keeps having partition problems

    On Apr 1, 10:43 am, Arno Wagner wrote:
    > In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage mechphi...@gmail.com wrote:
    > > I have a friend with a 250GB Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 SATA (in a Win
    > > XP Pro machine) that's throwing weird partition issues at the drop of
    > > a hat.
    > > Last week, after the PC crashed in a game, the entire drive (3 primary
    > > NTFS partitions) became inaccessible. Partition Magic 8 showed it as
    > > one errored partition. I could get data off any of the three
    > > partitions with a partition recovery program, but not actually restore
    > > the partitions themselves. I finally had to 0-out the drive and re-
    > > partition.
    > > Now, yesterday, a power surge during a rain storm (he really does know
    > > better than that) it powered down, and when it came back, the first
    > > (active) partition (this time FAT32) was showing as unformatted! (At
    > > least the other 2 partitions are still there and Partition magic can
    > > "see" them.)
    > > All CHKDSK tests, Partition Magic tests, other drive checking programs
    > > all discover no errors with the drive. (Well, once it's partitioned
    > > and formatted).
    > > Any ideas?
    > > Thanks,
    > > Liam

    >
    > Potential reasons:
    >
    > Driver or hardware issues that cause transient problems and
    > prevent timely write-back of information (unlikely) or cause
    > writes to the wring areas. It may be faulty RAM. It may be
    > a faultu cache entry or the like.
    >
    > What would be interesting is whether there is any other
    > data corruption and what its exact form is (e.g.
    > is there an all-zero sector or is some other data in it).
    >
    > Have you looked at the SMART attributes (any other test is
    > really quite meaningless today) and tun a long SMART selftest?
    >
    > Arno


    Hmm, how does one look at SMART attributes?
    I normally have SMART off at the BIOS (have read SMART can just cause
    more issues than it's worth oftentimes.) If I turn it on, what tool
    can I use to view the attributes?

    I can do another 0'ing out of the drive. Once I do that, how can I
    then check to see if indeed it wrote all 0's?

    Thanks for the reply!
    Liam

  4. Re: drive keeps having partition problems

    In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage mechphisto@gmail.com wrote:
    > On Apr 1, 10:43 am, Arno Wagner wrote:
    >> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage mechphi...@gmail.com wrote:
    >> > I have a friend with a 250GB Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 SATA (in a Win
    >> > XP Pro machine) that's throwing weird partition issues at the drop of
    >> > a hat.
    >> > Last week, after the PC crashed in a game, the entire drive (3 primary
    >> > NTFS partitions) became inaccessible. Partition Magic 8 showed it as
    >> > one errored partition. I could get data off any of the three
    >> > partitions with a partition recovery program, but not actually restore
    >> > the partitions themselves. I finally had to 0-out the drive and re-
    >> > partition.
    >> > Now, yesterday, a power surge during a rain storm (he really does know
    >> > better than that) it powered down, and when it came back, the first
    >> > (active) partition (this time FAT32) was showing as unformatted! (At
    >> > least the other 2 partitions are still there and Partition magic can
    >> > "see" them.)
    >> > All CHKDSK tests, Partition Magic tests, other drive checking programs
    >> > all discover no errors with the drive. (Well, once it's partitioned
    >> > and formatted).
    >> > Any ideas?
    >> > Thanks,
    >> > Liam

    >>
    >> Potential reasons:
    >>
    >> Driver or hardware issues that cause transient problems and
    >> prevent timely write-back of information (unlikely) or cause
    >> writes to the wring areas. It may be faulty RAM. It may be
    >> a faultu cache entry or the like.
    >>
    >> What would be interesting is whether there is any other
    >> data corruption and what its exact form is (e.g.
    >> is there an all-zero sector or is some other data in it).
    >>
    >> Have you looked at the SMART attributes (any other test is
    >> really quite meaningless today) and tun a long SMART selftest?
    >>
    >> Arno


    > Hmm, how does one look at SMART attributes?
    > I normally have SMART off at the BIOS (have read SMART can just cause
    > more issues than it's worth oftentimes.) If I turn it on, what tool
    > can I use to view the attributes?


    I use the smartmontools (commandline, available on Linux
    and windows). There is also a tool called "Everest", that
    allows SMART access. And to just see the attributes, you can
    use the current SpeedFan.

    > I can do another 0'ing out of the drive. Once I do that, how can I
    > then check to see if indeed it wrote all 0's?


    Run a long SMART selftest. It does a complete surface scan.

    Arno

  5. Re: drive keeps having partition problems

    On Apr 1, 11:00*am, mechphi...@gmail.com wrote:
    > On Apr 1, 10:43 am, Arno Wagner wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage mechphi...@gmail.com wrote:
    > > > I have a friend with a 250GB Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 SATA (in a Win
    > > > XP Pro machine) that's throwing weird partition issues at the drop of
    > > > a hat.
    > > > Last week, after the PC crashed in a game, the entire drive (3 primary
    > > > NTFS partitions) became inaccessible. Partition Magic 8 showed it as
    > > > one errored partition. I could get data off any of the three
    > > > partitions with a partition recovery program, but not actually restore
    > > > the partitions themselves. I finally had to 0-out the drive and re-
    > > > partition.
    > > > Now, yesterday, a power surge during a rain storm (he really does know
    > > > better than that) it powered down, and when it came back, the first
    > > > (active) partition (this time FAT32) was showing as unformatted! (At
    > > > least the other 2 partitions are still there and Partition magic can
    > > > "see" them.)
    > > > All CHKDSK tests, Partition Magic tests, other drive checking programs
    > > > all discover no errors with the drive. (Well, once it's partitioned
    > > > and formatted).
    > > > Any ideas?
    > > > Thanks,
    > > > Liam

    >
    > > Potential reasons:

    >
    > > Driver or hardware issues that cause transient problems and
    > > prevent timely write-back of information (unlikely) or cause
    > > writes to the wring areas. It may be faulty RAM. It may be
    > > a faultu cache entry or the like.

    >
    > > What would be interesting is whether there is any other
    > > data corruption and what its exact form is (e.g.
    > > is there an all-zero sector or is some other data in it).

    >
    > > Have you looked at the SMART attributes (any other test is
    > > really quite meaningless today) and tun a long SMART selftest?

    >
    > > Arno

    >
    > Hmm, how does one look at SMART attributes?
    > I normally have SMART off at the BIOS (have read SMART can just cause
    > more issues than it's worth oftentimes.) If I turn it on, what tool
    > can I use to view the attributes?
    >
    > I can do another 0'ing out of the drive. Once I do that, how can I
    > then check to see if indeed it wrote all 0's?
    >
    > Thanks for the reply!
    > Liam- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    Head over to Seagate's web site and get the diagnostics for the hard
    drive.

    http://www.seagate.com/www/en-us/sup...oads/seatools/

    Until the drive has been tested and found to be "ok" do not use this
    drive at all. It sounds like it is failing.

  6. Re: drive keeps having partition problems

    smlunatick wrote:
    > On Apr 1, 11:00 am, mechphi...@gmail.com wrote:
    >> On Apr 1, 10:43 am, Arno Wagner wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage mechphi...@gmail.com wrote:
    >>>> I have a friend with a 250GB Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 SATA (in a Win
    >>>> XP Pro machine) that's throwing weird partition issues at the drop of
    >>>> a hat.
    >>>> Last week, after the PC crashed in a game, the entire drive (3 primary
    >>>> NTFS partitions) became inaccessible. Partition Magic 8 showed it as
    >>>> one errored partition. I could get data off any of the three
    >>>> partitions with a partition recovery program, but not actually restore
    >>>> the partitions themselves. I finally had to 0-out the drive and re-
    >>>> partition.
    >>>> Now, yesterday, a power surge during a rain storm (he really does know
    >>>> better than that) it powered down, and when it came back, the first
    >>>> (active) partition (this time FAT32) was showing as unformatted! (At
    >>>> least the other 2 partitions are still there and Partition magic can
    >>>> "see" them.)
    >>>> All CHKDSK tests, Partition Magic tests, other drive checking programs
    >>>> all discover no errors with the drive. (Well, once it's partitioned
    >>>> and formatted).
    >>>> Any ideas?
    >>>> Thanks,
    >>>> Liam
    >>> Potential reasons:
    >>> Driver or hardware issues that cause transient problems and
    >>> prevent timely write-back of information (unlikely) or cause
    >>> writes to the wring areas. It may be faulty RAM. It may be
    >>> a faultu cache entry or the like.
    >>> What would be interesting is whether there is any other
    >>> data corruption and what its exact form is (e.g.
    >>> is there an all-zero sector or is some other data in it).
    >>> Have you looked at the SMART attributes (any other test is
    >>> really quite meaningless today) and tun a long SMART selftest?
    >>> Arno

    >> Hmm, how does one look at SMART attributes?
    >> I normally have SMART off at the BIOS (have read SMART can just cause
    >> more issues than it's worth oftentimes.) If I turn it on, what tool
    >> can I use to view the attributes?
    >>
    >> I can do another 0'ing out of the drive. Once I do that, how can I
    >> then check to see if indeed it wrote all 0's?
    >>
    >> Thanks for the reply!
    >> Liam- Hide quoted text -
    >>
    >> - Show quoted text -

    >
    > Head over to Seagate's web site and get the diagnostics for the hard
    > drive.
    >
    > http://www.seagate.com/www/en-us/sup...oads/seatools/
    >
    > Until the drive has been tested and found to be "ok" do not use this
    > drive at all. It sounds like it is failing.


    Agreed, and for good measure, replace the sata cable. I've just thrown
    out yet ANOTHER sata cable that was causing intermittent issues where
    the drive would become inaccessible.

    Ari

    --
    spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply
    Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow transplant. Please
    volunteer to be a marrow donor and literally save someone's life:
    http://www.abmdr.org.au/
    http://www.marrow.org/

  7. Re: drive keeps having partition problems

    On Apr 1, 12:37*pm, spodosaurus wrote:
    > smlunatick wrote:
    > > On Apr 1, 11:00 am, mechphi...@gmail.com wrote:
    > >> On Apr 1, 10:43 am, Arno Wagner wrote:

    >
    > >>> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage mechphi...@gmail.com wrote:
    > >>>> I have a friend with a 250GB Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 SATA (in a Win
    > >>>> XP Pro machine) that's throwing weird partition issues at the drop of
    > >>>> a hat.
    > >>>> Last week, after the PC crashed in a game, the entire drive (3 primary
    > >>>> NTFS partitions) became inaccessible. Partition Magic 8 showed it as
    > >>>> one errored partition. I could get data off any of the three
    > >>>> partitions with a partition recovery program, but not actually restore
    > >>>> the partitions themselves. I finally had to 0-out the drive and re-
    > >>>> partition.
    > >>>> Now, yesterday, a power surge during a rain storm (he really does know
    > >>>> better than that) it powered down, and when it came back, the first
    > >>>> (active) partition (this time FAT32) was showing as unformatted! (At
    > >>>> least the other 2 partitions are still there and Partition magic can
    > >>>> "see" them.)
    > >>>> All CHKDSK tests, Partition Magic tests, other drive checking programs
    > >>>> all discover no errors with the drive. (Well, once it's partitioned
    > >>>> and formatted).
    > >>>> Any ideas?
    > >>>> Thanks,
    > >>>> Liam
    > >>> Potential reasons:
    > >>> Driver or hardware issues that cause transient problems and
    > >>> prevent timely write-back of information (unlikely) or cause
    > >>> writes to the wring areas. It may be faulty RAM. It may be
    > >>> a faultu cache entry or the like.
    > >>> What would be interesting is whether there is any other
    > >>> data corruption and what its exact form is (e.g.
    > >>> is there an all-zero sector or is some other data in it).
    > >>> Have you looked at the SMART attributes (any other test is
    > >>> really quite meaningless today) and tun a long SMART selftest?
    > >>> Arno
    > >> Hmm, how does one look at SMART attributes?
    > >> I normally have SMART off at the BIOS (have read SMART can just cause
    > >> more issues than it's worth oftentimes.) If I turn it on, what tool
    > >> can I use to view the attributes?

    >
    > >> I can do another 0'ing out of the drive. Once I do that, how can I
    > >> then check to see if indeed it wrote all 0's?

    >
    > >> Thanks for the reply!
    > >> Liam- Hide quoted text -

    >
    > >> - Show quoted text -

    >
    > > Head over to Seagate's web site and get the diagnostics for the hard
    > > drive.

    >
    > >http://www.seagate.com/www/en-us/sup...oads/seatools/

    >
    > > Until the drive has been tested and found to be "ok" do not use this
    > > drive at all. *It sounds like it is failing.

    >
    > Agreed, and for good measure, replace the sata cable. I've just thrown
    > out yet ANOTHER sata cable that was causing intermittent issues where
    > the drive would become inaccessible.
    >
    > Ari
    >
    > --
    > spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply
    > Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow transplant. Please
    > volunteer to be a marrow donor and literally save someone's life:http://www.abmdr.org.au/http://www.marrow.org/- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    Drive not accessable is one thing. Erasure of all partition is
    another and seems to indicate a big problem since the partitions are
    gone but the drive still is connect (BIOS may show it.)

  8. Re: drive keeps having partition problems

    On Apr 1, 11:21 am, Arno Wagner wrote:
    > In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage mechphi...@gmail.com wrote:
    > > On Apr 1, 10:43 am, Arno Wagner wrote:
    > >> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage mechphi...@gmail.com wrote:
    > >> > I have a friend with a 250GB Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 SATA (in a Win
    > >> > XP Pro machine) that's throwing weird partition issues at the drop of
    > >> > a hat.
    > >> > Last week, after the PC crashed in a game, the entire drive (3 primary
    > >> > NTFS partitions) became inaccessible. Partition Magic 8 showed it as
    > >> > one errored partition. I could get data off any of the three
    > >> > partitions with a partition recovery program, but not actually restore
    > >> > the partitions themselves. I finally had to 0-out the drive and re-
    > >> > partition.
    > >> > Now, yesterday, a power surge during a rain storm (he really does know
    > >> > better than that) it powered down, and when it came back, the first
    > >> > (active) partition (this time FAT32) was showing as unformatted! (At
    > >> > least the other 2 partitions are still there and Partition magic can
    > >> > "see" them.)
    > >> > All CHKDSK tests, Partition Magic tests, other drive checking programs
    > >> > all discover no errors with the drive. (Well, once it's partitioned
    > >> > and formatted).
    > >> > Any ideas?
    > >> > Thanks,
    > >> > Liam

    >
    > >> Potential reasons:

    >
    > >> Driver or hardware issues that cause transient problems and
    > >> prevent timely write-back of information (unlikely) or cause
    > >> writes to the wring areas. It may be faulty RAM. It may be
    > >> a faultu cache entry or the like.

    >
    > >> What would be interesting is whether there is any other
    > >> data corruption and what its exact form is (e.g.
    > >> is there an all-zero sector or is some other data in it).

    >
    > >> Have you looked at the SMART attributes (any other test is
    > >> really quite meaningless today) and tun a long SMART selftest?

    >
    > >> Arno

    > > Hmm, how does one look at SMART attributes?
    > > I normally have SMART off at the BIOS (have read SMART can just cause
    > > more issues than it's worth oftentimes.) If I turn it on, what tool
    > > can I use to view the attributes?

    >
    > I use the smartmontools (commandline, available on Linux
    > and windows). There is also a tool called "Everest", that
    > allows SMART access. And to just see the attributes, you can
    > use the current SpeedFan.
    >
    > > I can do another 0'ing out of the drive. Once I do that, how can I
    > > then check to see if indeed it wrote all 0's?

    >
    > Run a long SMART selftest. It does a complete surface scan.
    >
    > Arno


    Easy Recovery Pro found no drive errors, including surface scan, but
    it did find partition errors. (And advised to do a drive test. Hrrm.)
    The Everest SMART shows OK and "passes" on all lines for the drive.
    The smartctl is a bit complicated... I used "-t long" and never got a
    report.
    But the -H switch indicates overall self-assessment test is PASSED.
    Not sure what else I can check.
    I'm going to reformat the lost partition and put the OS back on...and
    then test again and see if anything changes.

  9. Re: drive keeps having partition problems

    On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 08:02:38 -0700 (PDT), mechphisto@gmail.com put
    finger to keyboard and composed:

    >I have a friend with a 250GB Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 SATA (in a Win
    >XP Pro machine) that's throwing weird partition issues at the drop of
    >a hat.
    >
    >Last week, after the PC crashed in a game, the entire drive (3 primary
    >NTFS partitions) became inaccessible. Partition Magic 8 showed it as
    >one errored partition. I could get data off any of the three
    >partitions with a partition recovery program, but not actually restore
    >the partitions themselves. I finally had to 0-out the drive and re-
    >partition.
    >
    >Now, yesterday, a power surge during a rain storm (he really does know
    >better than that) it powered down, and when it came back, the first
    >(active) partition (this time FAT32) was showing as unformatted! (At
    >least the other 2 partitions are still there and Partition magic can
    >"see" them.)
    >
    >All CHKDSK tests, Partition Magic tests, other drive checking programs
    >all discover no errors with the drive. (Well, once it's partitioned
    >and formatted).
    >Any ideas?
    >Thanks,
    >Liam


    It sounds to me like the FAT32 volume may have suffered some damage to
    the FATs or to the boot sector(s). IME CHKDSK has been useless in
    repairing these types of problems. Instead I've used Scandisk from
    Windows 98SE to repair these faults, although in your case Win98SE
    would be limited to 137GB HDs. To see the full 250GB, you would need
    to install it in a USB enclosure, or possibly use Win ME's version of
    Scandisk.

    Whatever you do, do not be tempted to run FIXBOOT on your FAT32 volume
    from the recovery console of an XP boot CD. FIXBOOT has a bug that can
    fatally damage your filesystem.

    See http://tinyurl.com/3334yh

    Quirks in Scandisk, Chkdsk, Fixmbr, Fixboot:
    http://groups.google.com/group/micro...f3f04d4f9e4925

    If you are looking for a DOS based S.M.A.R.T. viewer, then I recommend
    SMARTUDM (37KB):
    http://www.sysinfolab.com/download.htm

    Here is a sample SMARTUDM report for a Seagate HD with 119 reallocated
    sectors:
    http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/SmartUDM/13GB.RPT

    Here is a sample Smartctl report:
    http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/Smartctl/13gb.log

    BTW, don't be alarmed by the very high numbers for Raw Read Error
    Rate, Seek Error Rate, and Hardware ECC Recovered for Seagate HDs. My
    own testing and research leads me to believe that these are normal and
    do not in fact reflect errors.

    - Franc Zabkar
    --
    Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

  10. Re: drive keeps having partition problems

    mechphisto@gmail.com wrote:
    > On Apr 1, 11:21 am, Arno Wagner wrote:
    >> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage mechphi...@gmail.com wrote:
    >>> On Apr 1, 10:43 am, Arno Wagner wrote:
    >>>> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage mechphi...@gmail.com wrote:
    >>>>> I have a friend with a 250GB Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 SATA (in a
    >>>>> Win XP Pro machine) that's throwing weird partition issues at the
    >>>>> drop of a hat.
    >>>>> Last week, after the PC crashed in a game, the entire drive (3
    >>>>> primary NTFS partitions) became inaccessible. Partition Magic 8
    >>>>> showed it as one errored partition. I could get data off any of
    >>>>> the three partitions with a partition recovery program, but not
    >>>>> actually restore the partitions themselves. I finally had to
    >>>>> 0-out the drive and re- partition.
    >>>>> Now, yesterday, a power surge during a rain storm (he really does
    >>>>> know better than that) it powered down, and when it came back,
    >>>>> the first (active) partition (this time FAT32) was showing as
    >>>>> unformatted! (At least the other 2 partitions are still there and
    >>>>> Partition magic can "see" them.)
    >>>>> All CHKDSK tests, Partition Magic tests, other drive checking
    >>>>> programs all discover no errors with the drive. (Well, once it's
    >>>>> partitioned and formatted).
    >>>>> Any ideas?
    >>>>> Thanks,
    >>>>> Liam

    >>
    >>>> Potential reasons:

    >>
    >>>> Driver or hardware issues that cause transient problems and
    >>>> prevent timely write-back of information (unlikely) or cause
    >>>> writes to the wring areas. It may be faulty RAM. It may be
    >>>> a faultu cache entry or the like.

    >>
    >>>> What would be interesting is whether there is any other
    >>>> data corruption and what its exact form is (e.g.
    >>>> is there an all-zero sector or is some other data in it).

    >>
    >>>> Have you looked at the SMART attributes (any other test is
    >>>> really quite meaningless today) and tun a long SMART selftest?

    >>
    >>>> Arno
    >>> Hmm, how does one look at SMART attributes?
    >>> I normally have SMART off at the BIOS (have read SMART can just
    >>> cause more issues than it's worth oftentimes.) If I turn it on,
    >>> what tool can I use to view the attributes?

    >>
    >> I use the smartmontools (commandline, available on Linux
    >> and windows). There is also a tool called "Everest", that
    >> allows SMART access. And to just see the attributes, you can
    >> use the current SpeedFan.
    >>
    >>> I can do another 0'ing out of the drive. Once I do that, how can I
    >>> then check to see if indeed it wrote all 0's?

    >>
    >> Run a long SMART selftest. It does a complete surface scan.
    >>
    >> Arno

    >
    > Easy Recovery Pro found no drive errors, including surface scan, but
    > it did find partition errors. (And advised to do a drive test. Hrrm.)
    > The Everest SMART shows OK and "passes" on all lines for the drive.


    That doesnt prove anything, post the actual report.

    > The smartctl is a bit complicated... I used "-t long" and never got a report.
    > But the -H switch indicates overall self-assessment test is PASSED.
    > Not sure what else I can check.
    > I'm going to reformat the lost partition and put the OS back on...and
    > then test again and see if anything changes.




  11. Re: drive keeps having partition problems

    On Apr 1, 3:17 pm, "Rod Speed" wrote:
    > mechphi...@gmail.com wrote:
    > > On Apr 1, 11:21 am, Arno Wagner wrote:
    > >> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage mechphi...@gmail.com wrote:
    > >>> On Apr 1, 10:43 am, Arno Wagner wrote:
    > >>>> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage mechphi...@gmail.com wrote:
    > >>>>> I have a friend with a 250GB Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 SATA (in a
    > >>>>> Win XP Pro machine) that's throwing weird partition issues at the
    > >>>>> drop of a hat.
    > >>>>> Last week, after the PC crashed in a game, the entire drive (3
    > >>>>> primary NTFS partitions) became inaccessible. Partition Magic 8
    > >>>>> showed it as one errored partition. I could get data off any of
    > >>>>> the three partitions with a partition recovery program, but not
    > >>>>> actually restore the partitions themselves. I finally had to
    > >>>>> 0-out the drive and re- partition.
    > >>>>> Now, yesterday, a power surge during a rain storm (he really does
    > >>>>> know better than that) it powered down, and when it came back,
    > >>>>> the first (active) partition (this time FAT32) was showing as
    > >>>>> unformatted! (At least the other 2 partitions are still there and
    > >>>>> Partition magic can "see" them.)
    > >>>>> All CHKDSK tests, Partition Magic tests, other drive checking
    > >>>>> programs all discover no errors with the drive. (Well, once it's
    > >>>>> partitioned and formatted).
    > >>>>> Any ideas?
    > >>>>> Thanks,
    > >>>>> Liam

    >
    > >>>> Potential reasons:

    >
    > >>>> Driver or hardware issues that cause transient problems and
    > >>>> prevent timely write-back of information (unlikely) or cause
    > >>>> writes to the wring areas. It may be faulty RAM. It may be
    > >>>> a faultu cache entry or the like.

    >
    > >>>> What would be interesting is whether there is any other
    > >>>> data corruption and what its exact form is (e.g.
    > >>>> is there an all-zero sector or is some other data in it).

    >
    > >>>> Have you looked at the SMART attributes (any other test is
    > >>>> really quite meaningless today) and tun a long SMART selftest?

    >
    > >>>> Arno
    > >>> Hmm, how does one look at SMART attributes?
    > >>> I normally have SMART off at the BIOS (have read SMART can just
    > >>> cause more issues than it's worth oftentimes.) If I turn it on,
    > >>> what tool can I use to view the attributes?

    >
    > >> I use the smartmontools (commandline, available on Linux
    > >> and windows). There is also a tool called "Everest", that
    > >> allows SMART access. And to just see the attributes, you can
    > >> use the current SpeedFan.

    >
    > >>> I can do another 0'ing out of the drive. Once I do that, how can I
    > >>> then check to see if indeed it wrote all 0's?

    >
    > >> Run a long SMART selftest. It does a complete surface scan.

    >
    > >> Arno

    >
    > > Easy Recovery Pro found no drive errors, including surface scan, but
    > > it did find partition errors. (And advised to do a drive test. Hrrm.)
    > > The Everest SMART shows OK and "passes" on all lines for the drive.

    >
    > That doesnt prove anything, post the actual report.
    >
    > > The smartctl is a bit complicated... I used "-t long" and never got a report.
    > > But the -H switch indicates overall self-assessment test is PASSED.
    > > Not sure what else I can check.
    > > I'm going to reformat the lost partition and put the OS back on...and
    > > then test again and see if anything changes.


    Which report?
    From smartctl? If so, using what switch? The -H or the -a...?

  12. Re: drive keeps having partition problems

    On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 12:26:41 -0700 (PDT), mechphisto@gmail.com put
    finger to keyboard and composed:

    >Easy Recovery Pro found no drive errors, including surface scan, but
    >it did find partition errors. (And advised to do a drive test. Hrrm.)
    >The Everest SMART shows OK and "passes" on all lines for the drive.


    SMART can pass a disc even if it has hundreds of reallocated sectors.
    Such a disc can grow new bad sectors on a regular basis. I took my
    13GB Seagate drive out of service after it started doing this.

    >The smartctl is a bit complicated... I used "-t long" and never got a
    >report.
    >But the -H switch indicates overall self-assessment test is PASSED.
    >Not sure what else I can check.
    >I'm going to reformat the lost partition and put the OS back on...and
    >then test again and see if anything changes.


    Why don't you take this opportunity to find out exactly which sectors
    of the disc have been affected? I'd check the boot sector(s) and FATs.

    You can use a sector editor/viewer such as Microsoft's Diskprobe which
    is included on your XP CD.

    How to Install the Support Tools from the Windows XP CD-ROM:
    http://support.microsoft.com/kb/306794/EN-US/

    Troubleshooting Disks and File Systems:
    http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l.../bb457122.aspx

    - Franc Zabkar
    --
    Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

  13. Re: drive keeps having partition problems

    mechphisto@gmail.com wrote:
    > On Apr 1, 3:17 pm, "Rod Speed" wrote:
    >> mechphi...@gmail.com wrote:
    >>> On Apr 1, 11:21 am, Arno Wagner wrote:
    >>>> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage mechphi...@gmail.com wrote:
    >>>>> On Apr 1, 10:43 am, Arno Wagner wrote:
    >>>>>> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage mechphi...@gmail.com wrote:
    >>>>>>> I have a friend with a 250GB Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 SATA (in
    >>>>>>> a Win XP Pro machine) that's throwing weird partition issues at
    >>>>>>> the drop of a hat.
    >>>>>>> Last week, after the PC crashed in a game, the entire drive (3
    >>>>>>> primary NTFS partitions) became inaccessible. Partition Magic 8
    >>>>>>> showed it as one errored partition. I could get data off any of
    >>>>>>> the three partitions with a partition recovery program, but not
    >>>>>>> actually restore the partitions themselves. I finally had to
    >>>>>>> 0-out the drive and re- partition.
    >>>>>>> Now, yesterday, a power surge during a rain storm (he really
    >>>>>>> does know better than that) it powered down, and when it came
    >>>>>>> back, the first (active) partition (this time FAT32) was
    >>>>>>> showing as unformatted! (At least the other 2 partitions are
    >>>>>>> still there and Partition magic can "see" them.)
    >>>>>>> All CHKDSK tests, Partition Magic tests, other drive checking
    >>>>>>> programs all discover no errors with the drive. (Well, once it's
    >>>>>>> partitioned and formatted).
    >>>>>>> Any ideas?
    >>>>>>> Thanks,
    >>>>>>> Liam

    >>
    >>>>>> Potential reasons:

    >>
    >>>>>> Driver or hardware issues that cause transient problems and
    >>>>>> prevent timely write-back of information (unlikely) or cause
    >>>>>> writes to the wring areas. It may be faulty RAM. It may be
    >>>>>> a faultu cache entry or the like.

    >>
    >>>>>> What would be interesting is whether there is any other
    >>>>>> data corruption and what its exact form is (e.g.
    >>>>>> is there an all-zero sector or is some other data in it).

    >>
    >>>>>> Have you looked at the SMART attributes (any other test is
    >>>>>> really quite meaningless today) and tun a long SMART selftest?

    >>
    >>>>>> Arno
    >>>>> Hmm, how does one look at SMART attributes?
    >>>>> I normally have SMART off at the BIOS (have read SMART can just
    >>>>> cause more issues than it's worth oftentimes.) If I turn it on,
    >>>>> what tool can I use to view the attributes?

    >>
    >>>> I use the smartmontools (commandline, available on Linux
    >>>> and windows). There is also a tool called "Everest", that
    >>>> allows SMART access. And to just see the attributes, you can
    >>>> use the current SpeedFan.

    >>
    >>>>> I can do another 0'ing out of the drive. Once I do that, how can I
    >>>>> then check to see if indeed it wrote all 0's?

    >>
    >>>> Run a long SMART selftest. It does a complete surface scan.

    >>
    >>>> Arno

    >>
    >>> Easy Recovery Pro found no drive errors, including surface scan, but
    >>> it did find partition errors. (And advised to do a drive test.
    >>> Hrrm.)
    >>> The Everest SMART shows OK and "passes" on all lines for the drive.

    >>
    >> That doesnt prove anything, post the actual report.
    >>
    >>> The smartctl is a bit complicated... I used "-t long" and never got
    >>> a report. But the -H switch indicates overall self-assessment test
    >>> is PASSED.
    >>> Not sure what else I can check.
    >>> I'm going to reformat the lost partition and put the OS back
    >>> on...and
    >>> then test again and see if anything changes.

    >
    > Which report?


    The Everest SMART report. Thats why I put that just under your reference to the Everest SMART report.

    > From smartctl? If so, using what switch? The -H or the -a...?


    Nope.



  14. Re: drive keeps having partition problems

    In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage mechphisto@gmail.com wrote:
    > On Apr 1, 11:21 am, Arno Wagner wrote:
    >> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage mechphi...@gmail.com wrote:
    >> > On Apr 1, 10:43 am, Arno Wagner wrote:
    >> >> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage mechphi...@gmail.com wrote:
    >> >> > I have a friend with a 250GB Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 SATA (in a Win
    >> >> > XP Pro machine) that's throwing weird partition issues at the drop of
    >> >> > a hat.
    >> >> > Last week, after the PC crashed in a game, the entire drive (3 primary
    >> >> > NTFS partitions) became inaccessible. Partition Magic 8 showed it as
    >> >> > one errored partition. I could get data off any of the three
    >> >> > partitions with a partition recovery program, but not actually restore
    >> >> > the partitions themselves. I finally had to 0-out the drive and re-
    >> >> > partition.
    >> >> > Now, yesterday, a power surge during a rain storm (he really does know
    >> >> > better than that) it powered down, and when it came back, the first
    >> >> > (active) partition (this time FAT32) was showing as unformatted! (At
    >> >> > least the other 2 partitions are still there and Partition magic can
    >> >> > "see" them.)
    >> >> > All CHKDSK tests, Partition Magic tests, other drive checking programs
    >> >> > all discover no errors with the drive. (Well, once it's partitioned
    >> >> > and formatted).
    >> >> > Any ideas?
    >> >> > Thanks,
    >> >> > Liam

    >>
    >> >> Potential reasons:

    >>
    >> >> Driver or hardware issues that cause transient problems and
    >> >> prevent timely write-back of information (unlikely) or cause
    >> >> writes to the wring areas. It may be faulty RAM. It may be
    >> >> a faultu cache entry or the like.

    >>
    >> >> What would be interesting is whether there is any other
    >> >> data corruption and what its exact form is (e.g.
    >> >> is there an all-zero sector or is some other data in it).

    >>
    >> >> Have you looked at the SMART attributes (any other test is
    >> >> really quite meaningless today) and tun a long SMART selftest?

    >>
    >> >> Arno
    >> > Hmm, how does one look at SMART attributes?
    >> > I normally have SMART off at the BIOS (have read SMART can just cause
    >> > more issues than it's worth oftentimes.) If I turn it on, what tool
    >> > can I use to view the attributes?

    >>
    >> I use the smartmontools (commandline, available on Linux
    >> and windows). There is also a tool called "Everest", that
    >> allows SMART access. And to just see the attributes, you can
    >> use the current SpeedFan.
    >>
    >> > I can do another 0'ing out of the drive. Once I do that, how can I
    >> > then check to see if indeed it wrote all 0's?

    >>
    >> Run a long SMART selftest. It does a complete surface scan.
    >>
    >> Arno


    > Easy Recovery Pro found no drive errors, including surface scan, but
    > it did find partition errors. (And advised to do a drive test. Hrrm.)
    > The Everest SMART shows OK and "passes" on all lines for the drive.
    > The smartctl is a bit complicated... I used "-t long" and never got a
    > report.


    You don't. You need poll with "smartctl -a ". May take
    some hours, depending on the drive.

    > But the -H switch indicates overall self-assessment test is PASSED.
    > Not sure what else I can check.
    > I'm going to reformat the lost partition and put the OS back on...and
    > then test again and see if anything changes.


    The "pass" on the smart attributes are sometimes over-optimistic. Can
    you post the output from "smartctrl -a " here?

    Arno

  15. Re: drive keeps having partition problems

    In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Franc Zabkar wrote:
    > On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 08:02:38 -0700 (PDT), mechphisto@gmail.com put
    > finger to keyboard and composed:

    [...]
    > BTW, don't be alarmed by the very high numbers for Raw Read Error
    > Rate, Seek Error Rate, and Hardware ECC Recovered for Seagate HDs. My
    > own testing and research leads me to believe that these are normal and
    > do not in fact reflect errors.


    Same here too. I believe these are from read accesses that were
    started immediately after a seek and before the heads really
    settled. This is fine, if the read and the ECC fails, the disk can do
    a re-read with rettled heads. On writing, the disk gives the
    heads more time after a seek.

    Arno

  16. Re: drive keeps having partition problems

    smlunatick wrote:
    > On Apr 1, 12:37 pm, spodosaurus wrote:
    >> smlunatick wrote:
    >>> On Apr 1, 11:00 am, mechphi...@gmail.com wrote:
    >>>> On Apr 1, 10:43 am, Arno Wagner wrote:
    >>>>> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage mechphi...@gmail.com wrote:
    >>>>>> I have a friend with a 250GB Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 SATA (in a Win
    >>>>>> XP Pro machine) that's throwing weird partition issues at the drop of
    >>>>>> a hat.
    >>>>>> Last week, after the PC crashed in a game, the entire drive (3 primary
    >>>>>> NTFS partitions) became inaccessible. Partition Magic 8 showed it as
    >>>>>> one errored partition. I could get data off any of the three
    >>>>>> partitions with a partition recovery program, but not actually restore
    >>>>>> the partitions themselves. I finally had to 0-out the drive and re-
    >>>>>> partition.
    >>>>>> Now, yesterday, a power surge during a rain storm (he really does know
    >>>>>> better than that) it powered down, and when it came back, the first
    >>>>>> (active) partition (this time FAT32) was showing as unformatted! (At
    >>>>>> least the other 2 partitions are still there and Partition magic can
    >>>>>> "see" them.)
    >>>>>> All CHKDSK tests, Partition Magic tests, other drive checking programs
    >>>>>> all discover no errors with the drive. (Well, once it's partitioned
    >>>>>> and formatted).
    >>>>>> Any ideas?
    >>>>>> Thanks,
    >>>>>> Liam
    >>>>> Potential reasons:
    >>>>> Driver or hardware issues that cause transient problems and
    >>>>> prevent timely write-back of information (unlikely) or cause
    >>>>> writes to the wring areas. It may be faulty RAM. It may be
    >>>>> a faultu cache entry or the like.
    >>>>> What would be interesting is whether there is any other
    >>>>> data corruption and what its exact form is (e.g.
    >>>>> is there an all-zero sector or is some other data in it).
    >>>>> Have you looked at the SMART attributes (any other test is
    >>>>> really quite meaningless today) and tun a long SMART selftest?
    >>>>> Arno
    >>>> Hmm, how does one look at SMART attributes?
    >>>> I normally have SMART off at the BIOS (have read SMART can just cause
    >>>> more issues than it's worth oftentimes.) If I turn it on, what tool
    >>>> can I use to view the attributes?
    >>>> I can do another 0'ing out of the drive. Once I do that, how can I
    >>>> then check to see if indeed it wrote all 0's?
    >>>> Thanks for the reply!
    >>>> Liam- Hide quoted text -
    >>>> - Show quoted text -
    >>> Head over to Seagate's web site and get the diagnostics for the hard
    >>> drive.
    >>> http://www.seagate.com/www/en-us/sup...oads/seatools/
    >>> Until the drive has been tested and found to be "ok" do not use this
    >>> drive at all. It sounds like it is failing.

    >> Agreed, and for good measure, replace the sata cable. I've just thrown
    >> out yet ANOTHER sata cable that was causing intermittent issues where
    >> the drive would become inaccessible.
    >>
    >> Ari
    >>
    >> --
    >> spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply
    >> Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow transplant. Please
    >> volunteer to be a marrow donor and literally save someone's life:http://www.abmdr.org.au/http://www.marrow.org/- Hide quoted text -
    >>
    >> - Show quoted text -

    >
    > Drive not accessable is one thing. Erasure of all partition is
    > another and seems to indicate a big problem since the partitions are
    > gone but the drive still is connect (BIOS may show it.)


    A bad cable can mimic a lot of issues - even causing BIOS to misreport
    drive size, yet the drive is still detected, etc.

    Ari

    --
    spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply
    Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow transplant. Please
    volunteer to be a marrow donor and literally save someone's life:
    http://www.abmdr.org.au/
    http://www.marrow.org/

  17. Re: drive keeps having partition problems

    On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 11:31:22 +0800, spodosaurus
    put finger to keyboard and composed:

    >A bad cable can mimic a lot of issues - even causing BIOS to misreport
    >drive size, yet the drive is still detected, etc.
    >
    >Ari


    I've seen strange BIOS reports for PATA drives.

    Here is a case where a dropped bit in a PATA cable caused a FUJITSU
    MPE3102AT or MPE3102AP hard drive to be mis-detected by the BIOS as a
    "BUJIP5Q IPA3102AP". Consequently a Fujitsu HD diagnostic was unable
    to see the drive.

    http://groups.google.com/group/micro...4?dmode=source
    http://groups.google.com/group/micro...f?dmode=source

    AFAICS, a serial (SATA) cable could not produce the same kind of
    error. The drive would be either correctly detected or not at all.

    - Franc Zabkar
    --
    Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

  18. Re: drive keeps having partition problems

    In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Franc Zabkar wrote:
    > On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 11:31:22 +0800, spodosaurus
    > put finger to keyboard and composed:


    >>A bad cable can mimic a lot of issues - even causing BIOS to misreport
    >>drive size, yet the drive is still detected, etc.
    >>
    >>Ari


    > I've seen strange BIOS reports for PATA drives.


    > Here is a case where a dropped bit in a PATA cable caused a FUJITSU
    > MPE3102AT or MPE3102AP hard drive to be mis-detected by the BIOS as a
    > "BUJIP5Q IPA3102AP". Consequently a Fujitsu HD diagnostic was unable
    > to see the drive.


    Fascinating. But I don't see how that would corrupt the partition
    table(s). Hmm. Changed bist in sector numbers for writes? But
    that should also result in data corruption all over the disk.

    > http://groups.google.com/group/micro...4?dmode=source
    > http://groups.google.com/group/micro...f?dmode=source


    > AFAICS, a serial (SATA) cable could not produce the same kind of
    > error. The drive would be either correctly detected or not at all.


    It can be detected with error. SATA puts chscksums on all intructions
    and data transfers. I had one cable that causet the disk to be
    removed from the system (linux) after a few minutes, because there
    the kernel got too many disk errors on access.

    Arno

  19. Re: drive keeps having partition problems

    Franc Zabkar wrote:
    > On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 11:31:22 +0800, spodosaurus
    > put finger to keyboard and composed:
    >
    >> A bad cable can mimic a lot of issues - even causing BIOS to misreport
    >> drive size, yet the drive is still detected, etc.
    >>
    >> Ari

    >
    > I've seen strange BIOS reports for PATA drives.
    >
    > Here is a case where a dropped bit in a PATA cable caused a FUJITSU
    > MPE3102AT or MPE3102AP hard drive to be mis-detected by the BIOS as a
    > "BUJIP5Q IPA3102AP". Consequently a Fujitsu HD diagnostic was unable
    > to see the drive.
    >
    > http://groups.google.com/group/micro...4?dmode=source
    > http://groups.google.com/group/micro...f?dmode=source
    >
    > AFAICS, a serial (SATA) cable could not produce the same kind of
    > error. The drive would be either correctly detected or not at all.


    I should have taken a photo last night of the salad like detection of a
    WD 320GB SATAII drive that popped onto my screen during drive detection
    with a 'bad' cable then It on a prior power on it didn't detect the
    drive at all on one occasion.

    Ari


    --
    spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply
    Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow transplant. Please
    volunteer to be a marrow donor and literally save someone's life:
    http://www.abmdr.org.au/
    http://www.marrow.org/

  20. Re: drive keeps having partition problems

    On 2 Apr 2008 09:48:17 GMT, Arno Wagner put finger to
    keyboard and composed:

    >In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Franc Zabkar wrote:
    >> On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 11:31:22 +0800, spodosaurus
    >> put finger to keyboard and composed:

    >
    >>>A bad cable can mimic a lot of issues - even causing BIOS to misreport
    >>>drive size, yet the drive is still detected, etc.
    >>>
    >>>Ari

    >
    >> I've seen strange BIOS reports for PATA drives.

    >
    >> Here is a case where a dropped bit in a PATA cable caused a FUJITSU
    >> MPE3102AT or MPE3102AP hard drive to be mis-detected by the BIOS as a
    >> "BUJIP5Q IPA3102AP". Consequently a Fujitsu HD diagnostic was unable
    >> to see the drive.

    >
    >Fascinating. But I don't see how that would corrupt the partition
    >table(s). Hmm. Changed bist in sector numbers for writes? But
    >that should also result in data corruption all over the disk.


    Unfortunately the OP in that thread was a technically challenged
    elderly gentleman who was too afraid to open up his PC. He expected
    all his hardware problems to be rectified from the keyboard. In the
    end he frustrated me so much that I kill-filed him. Others persisted
    but were unable to extract much useful information from him.

    Anyway I believe that instead of "BUJIP5Q" he meant to write "BUJIPSQ"
    which would confirm that the fault was confined to a particular bit in
    a particular byte in every 16-bit word (the 1st, 5th, 7th, and 9th
    bytes were faulty). As the IDE interface is 16-bit, this pointed to a
    dropped bit in the cable. In fact I had seen this exact same fault in
    a Quantum drive many years before. At that time the solution was to
    remove and reseat the IDE cable.

    FWIW, here's a personal experience that I found fascinating, but which
    I was unable to fully resolve. DOS soundcard software somehow caused a
    particular bit to be dropped when accessing the HD.

    OPTi 82C931 sound card problems:
    http://groups.google.com/group/comp....4?dmode=source

    >> http://groups.google.com/group/micro...4?dmode=source
    >> http://groups.google.com/group/micro...f?dmode=source

    >
    >> AFAICS, a serial (SATA) cable could not produce the same kind of
    >> error. The drive would be either correctly detected or not at all.

    >
    >It can be detected with error. SATA puts chscksums on all intructions
    >and data transfers. I had one cable that causet the disk to be
    >removed from the system (linux) after a few minutes, because there
    >the kernel got too many disk errors on access.
    >
    >Arno


    Then how do you explain spodosaurus's observations?

    - Franc Zabkar
    --
    Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

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