Corrupted MBR -Regular occurrence - Storage

This is a discussion on Corrupted MBR -Regular occurrence - Storage ; Bernard wrote: > Thanks Bob, I've attached my comments below. Can you elaborate on some > points? > > On Apr 1, 1:08 am, Bob Willard wrote: > >>Bernard wrote: >> >>>The hard drive is stuffed, I've already had 3 ...

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Thread: Corrupted MBR -Regular occurrence

  1. Re: Corrupted MBR -Regular occurrence

    Bernard wrote:

    > Thanks Bob, I've attached my comments below. Can you elaborate on some
    > points?
    >
    > On Apr 1, 1:08 am, Bob Willard wrote:
    >
    >>Bernard wrote:
    >>
    >>>The hard drive is stuffed, I've already had 3 different 1's with the
    >>>same problems. So I'd like to know what the source of the problem is.

    >>
    >>>I might just buy a SATA PCI controller and see how I go.

    >>
    >>>I just don't want to invest more time in rebuilding the system,
    >>>installing all the programs and updates for it to then go down again.

    >>
    >>>I'll let you know how I go with the Everest test. I'm also going to
    >>>use Hot CPU Tester to test the chipset and motherboard. I'll let you
    >>>know soon.

    >>
    >>>Cheers,
    >>>Bernard

    >>
    >>Given that history, I'd take a serious look at:
    >>1. Cooling -- open the case, and clean the filters and heatsinks

    >
    > Because of all the problems I've had in the past the case hasn't been
    > closed in ages.
    >

    Probably not relevant to your problem, but closing the case usually
    gives better cooling than running with the skins off because the air
    flow gets usefully directed (to heatsinks and other hot parts).

    >>2. Cooling -- make sure your case fans are cooling the HDs
    >>3. Cooling -- get an app that reports HD temps in realtime

    >
    > The HDD temperatures seem good around 36C
    >

    Yep, 36C should be way cool. ;-)


    >>4. Cooling -- make sure that cabling/etc. does not block air flow

    >
    > Nope, very tidy in there
    >
    >>5. Cabling -- check signal & power cables to HDs for nicks and seating

    >
    > Can you please elaborate on this point?
    >

    Some PC cables are not very securely retained, and become loose just
    due to normal vibration; easy enough to remove and firmly reseat them.
    To check for nicks, visually inspect them -- nicks most commonly occur
    where the connector is attached to the cable. If you suspect a cable,
    try replacing it; cables are *a lot* cheaper than HDs.

    >>6. Power -- make sure your PS has enough juice and low ripple

    >
    > Any ideas how I can test this?
    >

    The best way is to borrow a better PS and temporarily replace yours;
    this may not be practical for everybody (I happen to have a bunch of
    stuff laying about).

    You may be able to test if your PS is marginally overloaded by removing
    as much stuff (optical drives, secondary HDs, etc.) as possible to see
    if the symptom goes away. As for ripple, you'll need a scope or a really
    good multimeter. May be simpler and cheaper to just replace your PS with
    a newer and better PS.

    All of my suggestions assume, of course, that the problem is caused by
    hardware. I have no reason to believe that your MBR corruption was not
    caused by software or by environment (e.g., power line glitches); I just
    choose to focus on hardware issues.
    --
    Cheers, Bob

  2. Re: Corrupted MBR -Regular occurrence

    On Apr 1, 12:21*am, Lars wrote:
    > Previously, on Usenet Bernard wrote:
    >
    > >Is there any way of testing the amount of wattage all my components
    > >are taking up? And maybe a ripple test too?

    >
    > How about telling us the Wattage of your current PSU, and a list of
    > your main hardware.

    Ok, 450W power supply
    >

    Motherboard
    ASUS M2NPV-VM
    > CPU

    AMD Athlon 64 X2 dual 3600+
    > Video card

    Onboard
    > Hard drives

    1x SATA 250GB Seagate
    1x SATA 120GB WD
    > Optical drive

    2x DVD-RW
    PCI
    2x TV Capture Card (1x Analogue, 1x Digital)
    USB
    Internal multi-card/usb reader (plugs directly into oboard usb pins)
    USB Keyboard, Mouse, Printer.

    Does it sound like it's overloaded?
    >
    > etc
    >
    > A few weeks ago I had a bunch of strange problems after having added a
    > new HD to my system. All problems went away when I upgraded to a more
    > powerful PSU.
    >
    > Lars
    > Stockholm



  3. Re: Corrupted MBR -Regular occurrence

    Test results are in here's the Hot CPU Tester log -in summary
    everything passed:

    Hot CPU Tester Pro 4.3
    Copyright 1999-2003 7Byte Computers
    Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 18:58:02
    Diagnostic Report
    ---------------------------------------------
    Test Started at: 08:17:40
    Test Duration: 07:00:04
    Physical Processors Available: 2
    Logical Processors Available: 2
    Multi-Processors System(SMP): Available
    Hyper-Threading Technology: Not Available
    CPU Name String: AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 3600+
    Speed: 2004MHz
    Logical Processors Tested: CPU 0, CPU 1
    Average CPU(s) Performance: 100.0%

    Modules Results:
    Complex Matrix: Finished without error
    Calculating Pi: Finished without error
    Sorting Algorithms: Finished without error
    Prime Test: Finished without error
    Fast Fourier Transforms: Finished without error
    Chipset: Finished without error
    L1 Cache: Finished without error
    L2 Cache: Finished without error
    Memory: Finished without error
    HD: Finished without error
    MMX: Finished without error
    SSE: Finished without error
    SSE2/SSE3: Finished without error
    3DNow!: Finished without error

    On Mar 31, 4:46*pm, "Rod Speed" wrote:
    > Bernard wrote:
    > > WOW! Thanks guys for the all replies.
    > > At the moment I'm am running Hot CPU Tester which will run for the
    > > next 7hrs testing the chipset, memory and hard drive. I'll see if the
    > > logs bring back anything.
    > > I was going to get a SATA PCI-E controller to give it a go, but now
    > > that we are bringing the power supply into question I'll have to see
    > > which 1 might really be the problem.
    > > Is there any way of testing the amount of wattage all my
    > > components are taking up? And maybe a ripple test too?

    >
    > Yes, but what you need to do that isnt cheap, particularly if the power
    > supply is periodically sagging out of spec and its that thats producing
    > the not very common freezes and resulting hard drive data corruption.
    >
    > It would be cheaper to get a new power supply instead.
    >
    > > I'll also run memtester tonight, see how I go.
    > > There probably wont be any updates until tomorrow.
    > > Thanks again for all your help!

    >
    > No problem, thats what these technical newsgroups are for.
    >
    >
    >
    > > On Apr 1, 6:48 am, "Rod Speed" wrote:
    > >> Stretch wrote

    >
    > >>> Franc Zabkar wrote
    > >>>> Bernard wrote
    > >>>>> I've had to format my hard drive around 6 times
    > >>>>> in the past 6 months because of a corrupted MBR.
    > >>>>> Initially, a few runs of CHKDSK in the recovery console and
    > >>>>> a running FIXMBR has fixed the problem for a couple of
    > >>>>> months only to have the same problem happen again.
    > >>>> I can't understand why your OS or your software would
    > >>>> want to write to the MBR, unless you were repartitioning
    > >>>> the disc or intentionally refreshing the MBR code.
    > >>> If I'm not mistaken NT keeps a signature there.

    >
    > >> But doesnt keep changing that.

    >
    > >>>> Instead I suspect that your drive is developing bad sectors.
    > >>> A corrupt MBR is not a bad sector.

    >
    > >> Yes, but he does get more than just a corrupt MBR.

    >
    > >>> It's a readable one that lost it's expected contents to a certain
    > >>> extend.

    >
    > >> It isnt clear that that is whats happening to it.

    >
    > >>>> If you believe that the MBR code is corrupt because FIXMBR is
    > >>>> telling you so, then be aware of the following bug (it is also
    > >>>> present in Win XP Home's recovery console).

    >
    > >>>> ================================================== ==================
    > >>>> Error Message When You Run fixmbr Command:
    > >>>> *http://support.microsoft.com/kb/266745/

    >
    > >>>> SYMPTOMS

    >
    > >>>> When you attempt to run the fixmbr command in the Microsoft Windows
    > >>>> 2000 recovery console, your computer system may display the
    > >>>> following error message:

    >
    > >>>> This computer appears to have a non-standard or invalid master boot
    > >>>> record. FIXMBR may damage your partition tables if you proceed.
    > >>>> This could cause all the partitions on the current hard disk to
    > >>>> become inaccessible. If you are not having problems accessing your
    > >>>> drive, do not continue. Are you sure you want to write a new MBR?

    >
    > >>>> RESOLUTION

    >
    > >>>> Ignore the error message described in the "Symptoms" section of
    > >>>> this article. The fixmbr command can safely rewrite the MBR.

    >
    > >>>> STATUS

    >
    > >>>> Microsoft has confirmed that this is a problem in the Microsoft
    > >>>> products that are listed at the beginning of this article.

    >
    > >>>> MORE INFORMATION

    >
    > >>>> The fixmbr command causes this error message to be displayed on
    > >>>> your computer system whenever you run the command, regardless of
    > >>>> the state of the Master Boot Record (MBR).
    > >>>> ================================================== ==================- Hide quoted text -

    >
    > - Show quoted text -



  4. Re: Corrupted MBR -Regular occurrence

    On Mar 31, 8:47*am, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
    > In article <6130c03e-48eb-4058-b172-2f73c1fa4...@d21g2000prf.googlegroup
    > s.com>, Bernard writes
    >
    > >As for the only the MBR being affected, I forgot to mention on the
    > >original post that the while doing CHKDSK, there were a lot of index,
    > >USN journal fixes, orphan files and also it did a step I've never seen
    > >before "Correcting errors in the Volume Bitmap".
    > >The CHKDSK errors happen every time this problem pops up.

    >
    > >Does this sound more like an onboard controller fault?

    >
    > It could be faulty memory. *Download Memtest86+ fromwww.memtest.organd
    > run it overnight for a minimum of two full passes. *
    >

    Memtester did 5 passes with 0 errors.
    > --
    > (\__/) * Bunny says NO to Windows Vista!
    > (='.'=) *http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut00...ista_cost.html
    > (")_(") *http://www.cypherpunks.to/~peter/vista.pdf



  5. Re: Corrupted MBR -Regular occurrence

    After all that looks like my only thing to do now is replace the PS.
    I'll do that tomorrow and get back to you.

    Thanks again!
    Bernard

    On Apr 1, 2:57*am, Bob Willard wrote:
    > Bernard wrote:
    > > Thanks Bob, I've attached my comments below. Can you elaborate on some
    > > points?

    >
    > > On Apr 1, 1:08 am, Bob Willard wrote:

    >
    > >>Bernard wrote:

    >
    > >>>The hard drive is stuffed, I've already had 3 different 1's with the
    > >>>same problems. So I'd like to know what the source of the problem is.

    >
    > >>>I might just buy a SATA PCI controller and see how I go.

    >
    > >>>I just don't want to invest more time in rebuilding the system,
    > >>>installing all the programs and updates for it to then go down again.

    >
    > >>>I'll let you know how I go with the Everest test. I'm also going to
    > >>>use Hot CPU Tester to test the chipset and motherboard. I'll let you
    > >>>know soon.

    >
    > >>>Cheers,
    > >>>Bernard

    >
    > >>Given that history, I'd take a serious look at:
    > >>1. Cooling -- open the case, and clean the filters and heatsinks

    >
    > > Because of all the problems I've had in the past the case hasn't been
    > > closed in ages.

    >
    > Probably not relevant to your problem, but closing the case usually
    > gives better cooling than running with the skins off because the air
    > flow gets usefully directed (to heatsinks and other hot parts).
    >
    > >>2. Cooling -- make sure your case fans are cooling the HDs
    > >>3. Cooling -- get an app that reports HD temps in realtime

    >
    > > The HDD temperatures seem good around 36C

    >
    > Yep, 36C should be way cool. *;-)
    >
    > >>4. Cooling -- make sure that cabling/etc. does not block air flow

    >
    > > Nope, very tidy in there

    >
    > >>5. Cabling -- check signal & power cables to HDs for nicks and seating

    >
    > > Can you please elaborate on this point?

    >
    > Some PC cables are not very securely retained, and become loose just
    > due to normal vibration; easy enough to remove and firmly reseat them.
    > To check for nicks, visually inspect them -- nicks most commonly occur
    > where the connector is attached to the cable. *If you suspect a cable,
    > try replacing it; cables are *a lot* cheaper than HDs.
    >
    > >>6. Power -- make sure your PS has enough juice and low ripple

    >
    > > Any ideas how I can test this?

    >
    > The best way is to borrow a better PS and temporarily replace yours;
    > this may not be practical for everybody (I happen to have a bunch of
    > stuff laying about).
    >
    > You may be able to test if your PS is marginally overloaded by removing
    > as much stuff (optical drives, secondary HDs, etc.) as possible to see
    > if the symptom goes away. *As for ripple, you'll need a scope or a really
    > good multimeter. *May be simpler and cheaper to just replace your PS with
    > a newer and better PS.
    >
    > All of my suggestions assume, of course, that the problem is caused by
    > hardware. *I have no reason to believe that your MBR corruption was not
    > caused by software or by environment (e.g., power line glitches); I just
    > choose to focus on hardware issues.
    > --
    > Cheers, Bob- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -



  6. Re: Corrupted MBR -Regular occurrence

    OK, I'd try the power supply next, mainly because its easy to try and doesnt cost a lot.

    Bernard wrote:
    > Test results are in here's the Hot CPU Tester log -in summary
    > everything passed:
    >
    > Hot CPU Tester Pro 4.3
    > Copyright 1999-2003 7Byte Computers
    > Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 18:58:02
    > Diagnostic Report
    > ---------------------------------------------
    > Test Started at: 08:17:40
    > Test Duration: 07:00:04
    > Physical Processors Available: 2
    > Logical Processors Available: 2
    > Multi-Processors System(SMP): Available
    > Hyper-Threading Technology: Not Available
    > CPU Name String: AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 3600+
    > Speed: 2004MHz
    > Logical Processors Tested: CPU 0, CPU 1
    > Average CPU(s) Performance: 100.0%
    >
    > Modules Results:
    > Complex Matrix: Finished without error
    > Calculating Pi: Finished without error
    > Sorting Algorithms: Finished without error
    > Prime Test: Finished without error
    > Fast Fourier Transforms: Finished without error
    > Chipset: Finished without error
    > L1 Cache: Finished without error
    > L2 Cache: Finished without error
    > Memory: Finished without error
    > HD: Finished without error
    > MMX: Finished without error
    > SSE: Finished without error
    > SSE2/SSE3: Finished without error
    > 3DNow!: Finished without error
    >
    > On Mar 31, 4:46 pm, "Rod Speed" wrote:
    >> Bernard wrote:
    >>> WOW! Thanks guys for the all replies.
    >>> At the moment I'm am running Hot CPU Tester which will run for the
    >>> next 7hrs testing the chipset, memory and hard drive. I'll see if
    >>> the logs bring back anything.
    >>> I was going to get a SATA PCI-E controller to give it a go, but now
    >>> that we are bringing the power supply into question I'll have to see
    >>> which 1 might really be the problem.
    >>> Is there any way of testing the amount of wattage all my
    >>> components are taking up? And maybe a ripple test too?

    >>
    >> Yes, but what you need to do that isnt cheap, particularly if the
    >> power supply is periodically sagging out of spec and its that thats
    >> producing the not very common freezes and resulting hard drive data
    >> corruption.
    >>
    >> It would be cheaper to get a new power supply instead.
    >>
    >>> I'll also run memtester tonight, see how I go.
    >>> There probably wont be any updates until tomorrow.
    >>> Thanks again for all your help!

    >>
    >> No problem, thats what these technical newsgroups are for.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>> On Apr 1, 6:48 am, "Rod Speed" wrote:
    >>>> Stretch wrote

    >>
    >>>>> Franc Zabkar wrote
    >>>>>> Bernard wrote
    >>>>>>> I've had to format my hard drive around 6 times
    >>>>>>> in the past 6 months because of a corrupted MBR.
    >>>>>>> Initially, a few runs of CHKDSK in the recovery console and
    >>>>>>> a running FIXMBR has fixed the problem for a couple of
    >>>>>>> months only to have the same problem happen again.
    >>>>>> I can't understand why your OS or your software would
    >>>>>> want to write to the MBR, unless you were repartitioning
    >>>>>> the disc or intentionally refreshing the MBR code.
    >>>>> If I'm not mistaken NT keeps a signature there.

    >>
    >>>> But doesnt keep changing that.

    >>
    >>>>>> Instead I suspect that your drive is developing bad sectors.
    >>>>> A corrupt MBR is not a bad sector.

    >>
    >>>> Yes, but he does get more than just a corrupt MBR.

    >>
    >>>>> It's a readable one that lost it's expected contents to a certain
    >>>>> extend.

    >>
    >>>> It isnt clear that that is whats happening to it.

    >>
    >>>>>> If you believe that the MBR code is corrupt because FIXMBR is
    >>>>>> telling you so, then be aware of the following bug (it is also
    >>>>>> present in Win XP Home's recovery console).

    >>
    >>>>>> ================================================== ==================
    >>>>>> Error Message When You Run fixmbr Command:
    >>>>>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/266745/

    >>
    >>>>>> SYMPTOMS

    >>
    >>>>>> When you attempt to run the fixmbr command in the Microsoft
    >>>>>> Windows 2000 recovery console, your computer system may display
    >>>>>> the
    >>>>>> following error message:

    >>
    >>>>>> This computer appears to have a non-standard or invalid master
    >>>>>> boot
    >>>>>> record. FIXMBR may damage your partition tables if you proceed.
    >>>>>> This could cause all the partitions on the current hard disk to
    >>>>>> become inaccessible. If you are not having problems accessing
    >>>>>> your
    >>>>>> drive, do not continue. Are you sure you want to write a new MBR?

    >>
    >>>>>> RESOLUTION

    >>
    >>>>>> Ignore the error message described in the "Symptoms" section of
    >>>>>> this article. The fixmbr command can safely rewrite the MBR.

    >>
    >>>>>> STATUS

    >>
    >>>>>> Microsoft has confirmed that this is a problem in the Microsoft
    >>>>>> products that are listed at the beginning of this article.

    >>
    >>>>>> MORE INFORMATION

    >>
    >>>>>> The fixmbr command causes this error message to be displayed on
    >>>>>> your computer system whenever you run the command, regardless of
    >>>>>> the state of the Master Boot Record (MBR).
    >>>>>> ================================================== ==================-
    >>>>>> Hide quoted text -

    >>
    >> - Show quoted text -




  7. Re: Corrupted MBR -Regular occurrence

    Bernard wrote:
    > On Apr 1, 12:21 am, Lars wrote:
    >> Previously, on Usenet Bernard wrote:
    >>
    >>> Is there any way of testing the amount of wattage all my components
    >>> are taking up? And maybe a ripple test too?

    >>
    >> How about telling us the Wattage of your current PSU, and a list of
    >> your main hardware.

    > Ok, 450W power supply
    >>

    > Motherboard
    > ASUS M2NPV-VM
    >> CPU

    > AMD Athlon 64 X2 dual 3600+
    >> Video card

    > Onboard
    >> Hard drives

    > 1x SATA 250GB Seagate
    > 1x SATA 120GB WD
    >> Optical drive

    > 2x DVD-RW
    > PCI
    > 2x TV Capture Card (1x Analogue, 1x Digital)
    > USB
    > Internal multi-card/usb reader (plugs directly into oboard usb pins)
    > USB Keyboard, Mouse, Printer.
    >
    > Does it sound like it's overloaded?


    No, but that doesnt exclude the possibility that its sagging outside
    specs ocassionaly due to a faulty power supply and that thats whats
    causing the freezes and drive contents corruption when it occurs.

    >> etc
    >>
    >> A few weeks ago I had a bunch of strange problems after having added
    >> a new HD to my system. All problems went away when I upgraded to a
    >> more powerful PSU.




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