Help with chosing a SAN! - Storage

This is a discussion on Help with chosing a SAN! - Storage ; Hello, We are a looking at buying a SAN. Size is barely an issue (less than 2TB initally), but we would like something extendable. We would to run important (but not big in terms of size or transactions) database (both ...

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Thread: Help with chosing a SAN!

  1. Help with chosing a SAN!

    Hello,

    We are a looking at buying a SAN. Size is barely an issue (less than
    2TB initally), but we would like something extendable. We would to run
    important (but not big in terms of size or transactions) database
    (both MS SQL and Oracle) as well as perhaps Exchange on there, and
    replicate those (perhaps using snapshots?) to a remote site for DR
    (too far for sync transfers).

    We are looking at an EMC Celerra solution, HP 4100 solution (using
    iSCSI rather than FC), or Equallogic.

    We would also like to host VMWare at some point to use Vmotion and
    Site Recovery Manager.

    My preferred option is currently an Equallogic box on each side. The
    HP solution (4100's) gives us flexibility (to use FC), but I don't
    think we need that kind of performance or want that kind of hassle.
    The equallogic box just seems a good fit in terms of being easy to
    setup and use (we have no dedicated storage people).

    Not sure about the EMC solution. The Celerra apparently has thin
    provisioning and virtual arrays (which makes out job a little easier),
    but I don't know how suitable it is apart from that.

    Is iSCSI a real world solution? Are Equallogic boxes good in the real
    world? Is the Celerra box comparable?

    Any other help appreciated!

  2. Re: Help with chosing a SAN!

    On Nov 28, 6:17 pm, cqmman wrote:
    > Hello,
    >
    > We are a looking at buying a SAN. Size is barely an issue (less than
    > 2TB initally), but we would like something extendable. We would to run
    > important (but not big in terms of size or transactions) database
    > (both MS SQL and Oracle) as well as perhaps Exchange on there, and
    > replicate those (perhaps using snapshots?) to a remote site for DR
    > (too far for sync transfers).
    >
    > We are looking at an EMC Celerra solution, HP 4100 solution (using
    > iSCSI rather than FC), or Equallogic.
    >
    > We would also like to host VMWare at some point to use Vmotion and
    > Site Recovery Manager.
    >
    > My preferred option is currently an Equallogic box on each side. The
    > HP solution (4100's) gives us flexibility (to use FC), but I don't
    > think we need that kind of performance or want that kind of hassle.
    > The equallogic box just seems a good fit in terms of being easy to
    > setup and use (we have no dedicated storage people).
    >
    > Not sure about the EMC solution. The Celerra apparently has thin
    > provisioning and virtual arrays (which makes out job a little easier),
    > but I don't know how suitable it is apart from that.
    >
    > Is iSCSI a real world solution? Are Equallogic boxes good in the real
    > world? Is the Celerra box comparable?
    >
    > Any other help appreciated!


    Hitachi is the best, don't forget them

  3. Re: Help with chosing a SAN!

    On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 15:17:42 -0800 (PST), cqmman
    wrote:

    >Hello,
    >
    >We are a looking at buying a SAN. Size is barely an issue (less than
    >2TB initally), but we would like something extendable. We would to run
    >important (but not big in terms of size or transactions) database
    >(both MS SQL and Oracle) as well as perhaps Exchange on there, and
    >replicate those (perhaps using snapshots?) to a remote site for DR
    >(too far for sync transfers).
    >
    >We are looking at an EMC Celerra solution, HP 4100 solution (using
    >iSCSI rather than FC), or Equallogic.
    >
    >We would also like to host VMWare at some point to use Vmotion and
    >Site Recovery Manager.
    >
    >My preferred option is currently an Equallogic box on each side. The
    >HP solution (4100's) gives us flexibility (to use FC), but I don't
    >think we need that kind of performance or want that kind of hassle.
    >The equallogic box just seems a good fit in terms of being easy to
    >setup and use (we have no dedicated storage people).
    >
    >Not sure about the EMC solution. The Celerra apparently has thin
    >provisioning and virtual arrays (which makes out job a little easier),
    >but I don't know how suitable it is apart from that.
    >
    >Is iSCSI a real world solution? Are Equallogic boxes good in the real
    >world? Is the Celerra box comparable?
    >
    >Any other help appreciated!


    HP support is bad. EMC is evil.

    Equalogic has alot of good reviews and iSCSI is making great inroads
    in the enterprise SAN market so I think you won't go wrong with them.

    If you don't already have an FC infrastructure I would not bother
    putting one in, just go with iSCSI. We use it to some extent since we
    do not need alot of SAN and it works fine. No performance issues as
    long as you have a seperate storage nic, particularly for client-based
    backups.

    ~F

  4. Re: Help with chosing a SAN!

    On Nov 28, 5:17 pm, cqmman wrote:
    > Hello,
    >
    > We are a looking at buying a SAN. Size is barely an issue (less than
    > 2TB initally), but we would like something extendable. We would to run
    > important (but not big in terms of size or transactions) database
    > (both MS SQL and Oracle) as well as perhaps Exchange on there, and
    > replicate those (perhaps using snapshots?) to a remote site for DR
    > (too far for sync transfers).
    >
    > We are looking at an EMC Celerra solution, HP 4100 solution (using
    > iSCSI rather than FC), or Equallogic.
    >
    > We would also like to host VMWare at some point to use Vmotion and
    > Site Recovery Manager.
    >
    > My preferred option is currently an Equallogic box on each side. The
    > HP solution (4100's) gives us flexibility (to use FC), but I don't
    > think we need that kind of performance or want that kind of hassle.
    > The equallogic box just seems a good fit in terms of being easy to
    > setup and use (we have no dedicated storage people).
    >
    > Not sure about the EMC solution. The Celerra apparently has thin
    > provisioning and virtual arrays (which makes out job a little easier),
    > but I don't know how suitable it is apart from that.
    >
    > Is iSCSI a real world solution? Are Equallogic boxes good in the real
    > world? Is the Celerra box comparable?
    >
    > Any other help appreciated!


    Have you looked at the NetApp FAS270 or FAS2020? Either will do all of
    what you mention and give you more flexability.
    I admit that I am biased but these boxes just work and are simple to
    use.

    Mike

  5. Re: Help with chosing a SAN!

    i'd recommend the EqualLogic as well. It also supports
    thin provisioning (which you mentioned liking on the EMC).
    Simple, great performance, reliable. We have both FC and
    iSCSI, and we're phasing out the FC in favor of all iSCSI
    going forward. We run SQL, Exchange, Oracle.

    the FC people push the performance angle really hard,
    especially with your databases... but until you get to
    some very high loads, it's just not an issue.






  6. Re: Help with chosing a SAN!

    On 29 Nov, 14:01, "lkjlkjlkj"
    wrote:
    > i'd recommend the EqualLogic as well. It also supports
    > thin provisioning (which you mentioned liking on the EMC).
    > Simple, great performance, reliable. We have both FC and
    > iSCSI, and we're phasing out the FC in favor of all iSCSI
    > going forward. We run SQL, Exchange, Oracle.
    >
    > the FC people push the performance angle really hard,
    > especially with your databases... but until you get to
    > some very high loads, it's just not an issue.



    Hey, do you do any kind of replication or DR on your Oracle database?
    If so, would be interested in hearing how you do it?

    Equallogic is looking more and more like our preferred choice..

  7. Re: Help with chosing a SAN!

    Edwin Cooke wrote:

    > The hard part is software, and NetApp has been stirring its
    > secret sauce longer than most of the current crop of vendors.
    > Netapp uses the "consistency point" and copy-on-write model as
    > a way to do some clever things. Can the other vendors make a
    > snapshot? Well, yeah. But, last time I checked, making a
    > snapshot of a LUN on other vendor's gear was something you
    > start and then go get coffee while you wait for it to run.


    Most vendors now support Copy-on-Write Snapshots.


    > But,
    > in Netapp's Data Ontap, the equivalent of a snapshot is made
    > routinely every 10 seconds (or more often), and you just grab
    > one as it's going by and preserve it. Easy and qu ick. Netapp
    > has some API special hooks that let both Oracle and MSsql
    > quiesce their transactions before making the snapshot, so
    > that the snapshot captures a database image that requires no
    > transaction log replay. You could restore it and immediately
    > go online.


    In the case of MSSql it would be VSS and again almost all array vendors
    support VSS. It would also be VSS for Oracle on Windows, so no advantage
    for NTAP there, and certainly no particularly special sauce.




    --
    Nik Simpson

  8. Re: Help with chosing a SAN!

    nik Simpson wrote:
    > Edwin Cooke wrote:
    >
    >> The hard part is software, and NetApp has been stirring its
    >> secret sauce longer than most of the current crop of vendors.
    >> Netapp uses the "consistency point" and copy-on-write model as
    >> a way to do some clever things. Can the other vendors make a
    >> snapshot? Well, yeah. But, last time I checked, making a
    >> snapshot of a LUN on other vendor's gear was something you
    >> start and then go get coffee while you wait for it to run.

    >
    > Most vendors now support Copy-on-Write Snapshots.
    >


    NetApp's snapshots aren't Copy-on-Write in the same way that other
    vendors usually are. There's no performance hit for taking snapshots
    and running with them in place.

    Pete

  9. Re: Help with chosing a SAN!

    In article 6fa712a74fab@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, cqmman@yahoo.co.uk says...
    >
    >On 29 Nov, 14:01, "lkjlkjlkj"
    > wrote:
    >> i'd recommend the EqualLogic as well. It also supports
    >> thin provisioning (which you mentioned liking on the EMC).
    >> Simple, great performance, reliable. We have both FC and
    >> iSCSI, and we're phasing out the FC in favor of all iSCSI
    >> going forward. We run SQL, Exchange, Oracle.
    >>
    >> the FC people push the performance angle really hard,
    >> especially with your databases... but until you get to
    >> some very high loads, it's just not an issue.

    >
    >
    >Hey, do you do any kind of replication or DR on your Oracle database?
    >If so, would be interested in hearing how you do it?
    >
    >Equallogic is looking more and more like our preferred choice..


    take a look at www.ami.com
    it's American Magatrends, the BIOS people, with their Equallogic
    competitive solutions which just means iSCSI w/ snapshot & replication
    They have some Oracle specific features also & the prices are certainly
    a lot less than Equallogic's


    --
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    ' \\ . . |>>
    O// . . |
    \_\ . . |
    | | . . . |
    / | . www.EvenEnterprises.com . . . |
    / .| info@EvenEnterprises.com . . . |
    / . | 310-544-9439 / 818-302-3344 fax . . . o
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Authorized - DIRECT VAR / VAD / Distributor for new mid-high end storage
    iSCSI / NAS-SAN / RAID / Tape Libraries / Software from HP, Quantum, Etc.


  10. Re: Help with chosing a SAN!

    Andy wrote:
    > In article > 6fa712a74fab@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, cqmman@yahoo.co.uk says...
    >>
    >>On 29 Nov, 14:01, "lkjlkjlkj"
    >> wrote:
    >>> i'd recommend the EqualLogic as well. It also supports
    >>> thin provisioning (which you mentioned liking on the EMC).
    >>> Simple, great performance, reliable. We have both FC and
    >>> iSCSI, and we're phasing out the FC in favor of all iSCSI
    >>> going forward. We run SQL, Exchange, Oracle.
    >>>
    >>> the FC people push the performance angle really hard,
    >>> especially with your databases... but until you get to
    >>> some very high loads, it's just not an issue.

    >>
    >>
    >>Hey, do you do any kind of replication or DR on your Oracle database?
    >>If so, would be interested in hearing how you do it?
    >>
    >>Equallogic is looking more and more like our preferred choice..

    >
    > take a look at www.ami.com
    > it's American Magatrends, the BIOS people, with their Equallogic
    > competitive solutions which just means iSCSI w/ snapshot & replication
    > They have some Oracle specific features also & the prices are certainly
    > a lot less than Equallogic's


    word on the street is equallogic's software is junk and the units crash
    all the time.

    Does anybodt know if this is still true?


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