What order of imaging is required? - Storage

This is a discussion on What order of imaging is required? - Storage ; It just dawned on me. Should I use Acronis via Dos (CD) or within XP to copy the image onto the SATA drive to make it bootable? Then reboot? With the current main C drive, will XP may get confused ...

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 27

Thread: What order of imaging is required?

  1. What order of imaging is required?

    It just dawned on me. Should I use Acronis via Dos (CD) or within XP to
    copy
    the image onto the SATA drive to make it bootable? Then reboot?

    With the current main C drive, will XP may get confused if I have 2
    boot drives with the new drive having also having a Windows Directory.




  2. Re: What order of imaging is required?

    Sam wrote

    > It just dawned on me.


    Hope you had your selt belt on |-)

    > Should I use Acronis via Dos (CD)


    Its not dos, its actually linux.

    > or within XP to copy the image onto the SATA drive to make it bootable?


    Both will work fine. And True Image calls that op a clone. An image isnt bootable.

    > Then reboot?


    Yep, but you will have to adjust what drive you are booting from in the bios.

    And its safer to physically disconnect the original boot drive for the first
    boot of what True Image calls the clone. XP can get rather confused if
    it can see both bootable copys on the first boot of the clone.

    > With the current main C drive, will XP may get confused if I have 2
    > boot drives with the new drive having also having a Windows Directory.


    Yes it can do, but only on the first boot of the clone. You can plug the original
    back in again after the first boot of the clone on the new drive, and do whatever
    you like with that drive like formatting the partition from within XP etc. You can
    also just keep the original for a while, in case the new drive dies a very early death.

    I personally leave the original for a month or two so its easy to go back if the
    new drive does die a very early death. Not that has ever actually happened to me.



  3. Re: What order of imaging is required?

    "Sam" wrote:
    > It just dawned on me. Should I use Acronis via Dos (CD) or
    > within XP to copy the image onto the SATA drive to make it
    > bootable?


    The MBR and the Boot Sector and the boot loader (ntldr) don't
    know what kind of controller runs the hard drive. To enable a
    SATA hard drive is up to the BIOS and the driver. So if you can
    transfer the data, you have all that is needed. If you can run XP,
    Acronis can do the deed as an installed program.


    > Then reboot?


    If you intend on making a clone, you can reboot the "parent"
    OS all you want. Just remove the hard drive containing the
    "parent" OS before you boot up the clone for the clone's 1st-ever
    run. By removing the currently booting hard drive, you'll cause
    the 2nd hard drive to assume the booting role, and no adjustment
    to the boot.ini file will be necessary.


    > With the current main C drive, will XP may get confused if I
    > have 2 boot drives with the new drive having also having a
    > Windows Directory.


    Once the clone has been booted and run in isolation, it will
    see the "parent" OS as merely a collection of files and folders
    (that is, as mere data). The "parent" OS will see the clone OS
    a merely data right from the beginning.

    *TimDaniels*



  4. Re: SATA Drive cant boot XP: NTLDR error

    Rod Speed wrote:
    >>
    >> Both will work fine. And True Image calls that op a clone. An image
    >> isnt bootable.
    >>
    >>> Then reboot?

    >>
    >> Yep, but you will have to adjust what drive you are booting from in
    >> the bios.
    >>
    >> And its safer to physically disconnect the original boot drive for
    >> the first
    >> boot of what True Image calls the clone. XP can get rather confused
    >> if
    >> it can see both bootable copys on the first boot of the clone.


    Ok, exactly as what I suspected was going to happen, did. I
    disconnected the old C drive. Had copied the bare working XP image that
    would be the NEW C drive onto the new SATA drive. Upon booting,
    selecting SATA drive as primary boot, I got invalid or corrupt NTLDR
    file.

    How do I fix this without having to take a valium?


  5. Re: SATA Drive cant boot XP: NTLDR error

    "Sam" wrote:
    > Ok, exactly as what I suspected was going to happen, did. I
    > disconnected the old C drive. Had copied the bare working XP
    > image that would be the NEW C drive onto the new SATA drive.
    > Upon booting, selecting SATA drive as primary boot, I got invalid
    > or corrupt NTLDR file.
    >
    > How do I fix this without having to take a valium?



    Did you tell True Image to make a clone or an image file?
    The former can be booted, the latter cannot because there is
    no Boot Record to pass control to ntldr. Does the new XP's
    partition have the same partition no. as the old XP? Is the new
    XP in a primary partition? If so, is it marked "active"?

    *TimDaniels*



  6. Re: SATA Drive cant boot XP: NTLDR error

    Timothy Daniels wrote:
    :
    : Did you tell True Image to make a clone or an image file?
    : The former can be booted, the latter cannot because there is
    : no Boot Record to pass control to ntldr. Does the new XP's
    : partition have the same partition no. as the old XP? Is the new
    : XP in a primary partition? If so, is it marked "active"?

    I just did an image of C Drive. I don't know what you mean by "does the
    partition have the same partition no. as the old XP"? The new drive
    only has one partition.

    Yes, the new partition is the new marked as active. I created a floppy
    from this site and I am able to boot as long as I select option 1 of 10
    options and boot from floppy.
    http://www.tinyempire.com/shortnotes...dr_missing.htm

    The above is not a real fix though.



  7. Re: SATA Drive cant boot XP: NTLDR error

    Sam wrote
    > Rod Speed wrote


    >>> Both will work fine. And True Image calls that op a clone. An image isnt bootable.


    >>>> Then reboot?


    >>> Yep, but you will have to adjust what drive you are booting from in the bios.


    >>> And its safer to physically disconnect the original boot drive for the first
    >>> boot of what True Image calls the clone. XP can get rather confused if
    >>> it can see both bootable copys on the first boot of the clone.


    > Ok, exactly as what I suspected was going to happen, did.


    A Jap would at least have the decency to disembowel itself.

    > I disconnected the old C drive. Had copied the bare working XP image
    > that would be the NEW C drive onto the new SATA drive. Upon booting,
    > selecting SATA drive as primary boot, I got invalid or corrupt NTLDR file.


    > How do I fix this without having to take a valium?


    Just boot the XP install CD and do a repair install.

    And take the valium anyway.



  8. Re: SATA Drive cant boot XP: NTLDR error

    "Sam" wrote:
    > Timothy Daniels wrote:
    > :
    > : Did you tell True Image to make a clone or an image file?
    > : The former can be booted, the latter cannot because there is
    > : no Boot Record to pass control to ntldr. Does the new XP's
    > : partition have the same partition no. as the old XP? Is the new
    > : XP in a primary partition? If so, is it marked "active"?
    >
    > I just did an image of C Drive. I don't know what you mean by "does the
    > partition have the same partition no. as the old XP"? The new drive
    > only has one partition.
    >
    > Yes, the new partition is the new marked as active. I created a floppy
    > from this site and I am able to boot as long as I select option 1 of 10
    > options and boot from floppy.
    > http://www.tinyempire.com/shortnotes...dr_missing.htm
    >
    > The above is not a real fix though.



    Stop making image files. They don't have a boot sector to which the
    MBR can pass control, and which in turn pass control to ntldr.. Make
    a clone. Read chapter 13 of the User Guide, downloadable from here:
    http://www.acronis.com/enterprise/products/ATISWin/

    Since you will be cloning a single partition that is the only partition on
    the hard drive and making it the only partition on the destination hard drive,
    the partition nos. will be the same - "1" - so the boot.ini file can be used
    as-is in the clone without having to diddle with the value of "y" in
    "partition(y)" of the entries in boot.ini.

    BTW, the author of that web page whose link you gave forgot to include
    "Boot Sector" in the sequence of boot control.

    *TimDaniels*



  9. Re: SATA Drive cant boot XP: NTLDR error

    Timothy Daniels wrote:
    >>
    >> Stop making image files. They don't have a boot sector to which
    >> the
    >> MBR can pass control, and which in turn pass control to ntldr.. Make
    >> a clone. Read chapter 13 of the User Guide, downloadable from here:
    >> http://www.acronis.com/enterprise/products/ATISWin/
    >>
    >> Since you will be cloning a single partition that is the only
    >> partition on the hard drive and making it the only partition on the
    >> destination hard drive, the partition nos. will be the same - "1" -
    >> so the boot.ini file can be used as-is in the clone without having
    >> to diddle with the value of "y" in "partition(y)" of the entries in
    >> boot.ini.
    >>
    >> BTW, the author of that web page whose link you gave forgot to
    >> include "Boot Sector" in the sequence of boot control.


    Hmm, thanks. The thing is that in the past I never wanted to clone the
    entire drive because I had other partitions and data that I did not want
    to clone. With this new drive I may clone it if I choose to do a fresh
    install and not use the drive image. I am surprised these imaging
    programs do not have a feature or tool where it could make a MBR for you
    upon reboot so you won't have the NTLDR error.


  10. Re: SATA Drive cant boot XP: NTLDR error

    Rod Speed wrote:
    >>
    >>> Ok, exactly as what I suspected was going to happen, did.

    >>
    >> A Jap would at least have the decency to disembowel itself.

    Not in this day and age. ;-)

    >>> How do I fix this without having to take a valium?

    >>
    >> Just boot the XP install CD and do a repair install.


    That will reinstall everything, right? Or is there a way just to fix the
    MBR while doing the repair? I haven't never done an XP repair before.

    >> And take the valium anyway.


    I don't have a prescription for it.


  11. Re: SATA Drive cant boot XP: NTLDR error

    "Sam" wrote:
    > Timothy Daniels wrote:
    >>>
    >>> Stop making image files. They don't have a boot sector to which
    >>> the
    >>> MBR can pass control, and which in turn pass control to ntldr.. Make
    >>> a clone. Read chapter 13 of the User Guide, downloadable from here:
    >>> http://www.acronis.com/enterprise/products/ATISWin/
    >>>
    >>> Since you will be cloning a single partition that is the only
    >>> partition on the hard drive and making it the only partition on the
    >>> destination hard drive, the partition nos. will be the same - "1" -
    >>> so the boot.ini file can be used as-is in the clone without having
    >>> to diddle with the value of "y" in "partition(y)" of the entries in
    >>> boot.ini.
    >>>
    >>> BTW, the author of that web page whose link you gave forgot to
    >>> include "Boot Sector" in the sequence of boot control.

    >
    > Hmm, thanks. The thing is that in the past I never wanted to clone the
    > entire drive because I had other partitions and data that I did not want
    > to clone. With this new drive I may clone it if I choose to do a fresh
    > install and not use the drive image. I am surprised these imaging
    > programs do not have a feature or tool where it could make a MBR for you
    > upon reboot so you won't have the NTLDR error.


    One of the features of True Image (according to its User Guide) is
    that for cloning, it will only clone an entire hard drive, and it cannot clone
    just a single partition (directly) as Ghost and Casper can. In your case,
    since you're cloning a hard drive that contains just a single partition, it
    doesn't matter, and True Image should do the trick.

    I'm not familiar with True Image enough to know if it gives you the
    option to copy the MBR (as Ghost does), but since the goal of cloning
    is to make a bootable copy, the MBR should be cloned along with the
    partition(s) and their Boot Sectors. You might try running "fixmbr"
    from the XP CD's Recovery Console to see if that does the trick. If it
    doesn't, follow it with "fixboot" to repair the Boot Sector. Otherwise,
    just run the cloning operation as described in ch. 13 of the True Image
    User Guide.

    *TimDaniels*



  12. Re: SATA Drive cant boot XP: NTLDR error

    Timothy Daniels wrote in news:474b8193$0$28795$4c368faf@roadrunner.com
    > "Sam" wrote:
    > > Ok, exactly as what I suspected was going to happen, did. I
    > > disconnected the old C drive. Had copied the bare working XP
    > > image that would be the NEW C drive onto the new SATA drive.
    > > Upon booting, selecting SATA drive as primary boot, I got invalid
    > > or corrupt NTLDR file.
    > >
    > > How do I fix this without having to take a valium?

    >
    >
    > Did you tell True Image to make a clone or an image file?
    > The former can be booted, the latter cannot


    > because there is no Boot Record to pass control to ntldr.


    Then how does one get "invalid or corrupt NTLDR file" without a
    bootrecord, Timmy?

    > Does the new XP's partition have the same partition no. as the old XP?
    > Is the new XP in a primary partition? If so, is it marked "active"?
    >
    > *TimDaniels*


  13. Re: SATA Drive cant boot XP: NTLDR error

    Sam wrote
    > Rod Speed wrote


    >>> Ok, exactly as what I suspected was going to happen, did.


    >> A Jap would at least have the decency to disembowel itself.


    > Not in this day and age. ;-)


    Yep, they still do it.

    >>> How do I fix this without having to take a valium?


    >> Just boot the XP install CD and do a repair install.


    > That will reinstall everything, right?


    Nope, it will just fix anything that needs fixing.

    > Or is there a way just to fix the MBR while doing the repair?


    It will fix anything that needs fixing, including the MBR.

    > I haven't never done an XP repair before.


    Its one of the real advances with XP, you wont lose any of your files or settings.

    >> And take the valium anyway.


    > I don't have a prescription for it.


    Easy to get from your friendly neighbourhood drug dealer.



  14. Re: SATA Drive cant boot XP: NTLDR error

    "Folkert Rienstra" (a.k.a. "Rod Speed", et. al.) asked:
    > Then how does one get "invalid or corrupt NTLDR file" without a
    > bootrecord, Timmy?



    It could be due to a lot of things, Roddels. According to this
    website, it could be a corrupt Boot Sector:
    http://www.windowsnetworking.com/art...-Problems.html
    Or... ntldr or boot.ini or ntdetect.com wasn't copied along with
    the other folders and files just below the root level of the file
    structure. Whatever the cause, it isn't consistent with a proper
    cloning operation.


    *TimDaniels*



  15. Re: SATA Drive cant boot XP: NTLDR error

    "Timothy Daniels" wrote in message
    news:474d2638$0$8640$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
    > "Folkert Rienstra" (a.k.a. "Rod Speed", et. al.) asked:
    >> Then how does one get "invalid or corrupt NTLDR file" without a
    >> bootrecord, Timmy?

    >
    > It could be due to a lot of things, Roddels. According to this

    Another crackpot who thinks people are forging news headers.

    > website, it could be a corrupt Boot Sector:
    > http://www.windowsnetworking.com/art...-Problems.html
    > Or... ntldr or boot.ini or ntdetect.com wasn't copied along with
    > the other folders and files just below the root level of the file
    > structure. Whatever the cause, it isn't consistent with a proper
    > cloning operation.
    >

    No, the message comes from the volume boot sector, which only loads NTLDR, nothing else.
    It typically means a mismatch between BIOS and boot sector geometries, or volume corruption.


  16. Re: SATA Drive cant boot XP: NTLDR error

    "Eric Gisin" wrote:
    > No, the message comes from the volume boot sector, which
    > only loads NTLDR, nothing else.


    That's logical and probably true.. I'm only going by what several
    websites stated - that other missing boot files could also result in
    "ntldr missing or corrupt" error messages. It *is* conceivable that
    ntldr returning an error code upon not finding a valid boot.ini or not
    finding an ntdetect.com to pass control to would cause the boot
    sector logic to class the error as due to a "missing ntldr".


    > It typically means a mismatch between BIOS and boot sector
    > geometries, or volume corruption.


    ...caused by a boot sector that actually applied to the old
    partition now being overwritten by the new image file which
    does not have a boot sector? IOW, an obsolete boot sector?

    *TimDaniels*



  17. Re: SATA Drive cant boot XP: NTLDR error

    Timothy Daniels wrote in news:474d2638$0$8640$4c368faf@roadrunner.com
    > "Folkert Rienstra" (a.k.a. "Rod Speed", et. al.) asked:
    >
    > > Then how does one get "invalid or corrupt NTLDR file" without a
    > > bootrecord, Timmy?

    >
    >
    > It could be due to a lot of things, Roddels.


    Clueless, as always.

    > According to this website, it could be a corrupt Boot Sector:
    > http://www.windowsnetworking.com/art...-Problems.html
    > Or... ntldr or boot.ini or ntdetect.com wasn't copied along with
    > the other folders and files just below the root level of the file
    > structure. Whatever the cause, it isn't consistent with a proper
    > cloning operation.


    In other words: you don't have a clue, Timmy child.

    >
    >
    > *TimDaniels*


  18. Re: SATA Drive cant boot XP: NTLDR error

    Timothy Daniels wrote:
    > "Folkert Rienstra" (a.k.a. "Rod Speed", et. al.) wrote


    **** you're a terminal ****wit Timmy. We dont even use the
    same usenet server, or the same usenet client either, fool.
    The styles and even the spelling is quite different too, stupid.



  19. Re: SATA Drive cant boot XP: NTLDR error

    "Timothy Daniels" wrote in message
    news:474dd1c9$0$15360$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
    >> It typically means a mismatch between BIOS and boot sector
    >> geometries, or volume corruption.

    >
    > ...caused by a boot sector that actually applied to the old
    > partition now being overwritten by the new image file which
    > does not have a boot sector? IOW, an obsolete boot sector?
    >

    I think they copy boot sector exactly, which is insufficient.
    They have to patch the CHS values to match the partition table.


  20. Re: SATA Drive cant boot XP: NTLDR error

    "Rod Speed" wrote:
    > Timothy Daniels wrote:
    >> "Folkert Rienstra" (a.k.a. "Rod Speed", et. al.) wrote

    >
    > **** you're a terminal ****wit Timmy. We dont even use the
    > same usenet server, or the same usenet client either, fool.
    > The styles and even the spelling is quite different too, stupid.



    And you can't even tell yourselves apart anymore, Roddels.

    *TimDaniels*



+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast