W98SE on HD >40GB - Storage

This is a discussion on W98SE on HD >40GB - Storage ; On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 16:34:18 +0100, Alan Peake wrote: >Hi all, > I don't seem to be able to load W98SE on a 160GB Seagate except on >partitions less than about 8GB. I have W98SE on a 40GB Maxtor ...

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Thread: W98SE on HD >40GB

  1. Re: W98SE on HD >40GB

    On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 16:34:18 +0100, Alan Peake
    wrote:

    >Hi all,
    > I don't seem to be able to load W98SE on a 160GB Seagate except on
    >partitions less than about 8GB. I have W98SE on a 40GB Maxtor -
    >installed with no problems but no luck on the Seagate - installation
    >runs OK until tries to boot for the first time, then says "Error loading
    >user.exe"
    >Is there any way of overcoming this?
    >Thanks,
    >Alan


    IIRC W98 had a FAT32 limit of ~128Gb. No way around, although WinME
    supposedly can do up to about 8TB.
    --
    Michael Cecil
    http://macecil.googlepages.com/index.htm
    http://macecil.googlepages.com/safehex.htm
    http://macecil.googlepages.com/hackingvista.htm

  2. Re: W98SE on HD >40GB

    Previously Michael Cecil wrote:
    > On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 16:34:18 +0100, Alan Peake
    > wrote:


    >>Hi all,
    >> I don't seem to be able to load W98SE on a 160GB Seagate except on
    >>partitions less than about 8GB. I have W98SE on a 40GB Maxtor -
    >>installed with no problems but no luck on the Seagate - installation
    >>runs OK until tries to boot for the first time, then says "Error loading
    >>user.exe"
    >>Is there any way of overcoming this?
    >>Thanks,
    >>Alan


    > IIRC W98 had a FAT32 limit of ~128Gb. No way around, although WinME
    > supposedly can do up to about 8TB.


    You can try to use a controller with its own BIOS, since you
    might also have a BIOS limit interfering in addition.

    Arno

  3. W98SE on HD >40GB

    Hi all,
    I don't seem to be able to load W98SE on a 160GB Seagate except on
    partitions less than about 8GB. I have W98SE on a 40GB Maxtor -
    installed with no problems but no luck on the Seagate - installation
    runs OK until tries to boot for the first time, then says "Error loading
    user.exe"
    Is there any way of overcoming this?
    Thanks,
    Alan


  4. Re: W98SE on HD >40GB

    Arno Wagner wrote in news:5obo2qFm26djU3@mid.individual.net
    > Previously Michael Cecil wrote:
    > > On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 16:34:18 +0100, Alan Peake wrote:

    >
    > > > Hi all,
    > > > I don't seem to be able to load W98SE on a 160GB Seagate except on
    > > > partitions less than about 8GB. I have W98SE on a 40GB Maxtor -
    > > > installed with no problems but no luck on the Seagate - installation
    > > > runs OK until tries to boot for the first time, then says "Error loading
    > > > user.exe"
    > > > Is there any way of overcoming this?
    > > > Thanks,
    > > > Alan

    >
    > > IIRC W98 had a FAT32 limit of ~128Gb. No way around, although WinME
    > > supposedly can do up to about 8TB.

    >
    > You can try to use a controller with its own BIOS, since you
    > might also have a BIOS limit interfering in addition.
    >
    > Arno


    What part of "I have W98SE on a 40GB Maxtor - installed with no problems"
    did you boys not understand?

  5. Re: W98SE on HD >40GB

    Folkert Rienstra wrote:
    > Arno Wagner wrote in news:5obo2qFm26djU3@mid.individual.net
    >> Previously Michael Cecil wrote:
    >>> On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 16:34:18 +0100, Alan Peake
    >>> wrote:

    >>
    >>>> Hi all,
    >>>> I don't seem to be able to load W98SE on a 160GB Seagate
    >>>> except on partitions less than about 8GB. I have W98SE on a 40GB
    >>>> Maxtor - installed with no problems but no luck on the Seagate -
    >>>> installation runs OK until tries to boot for the first time, then
    >>>> says "Error loading user.exe"
    >>>> Is there any way of overcoming this?
    >>>> Thanks,
    >>>> Alan

    >>
    >>> IIRC W98 had a FAT32 limit of ~128Gb. No way around, although WinME
    >>> supposedly can do up to about 8TB.

    >>
    >> You can try to use a controller with its own BIOS, since you
    >> might also have a BIOS limit interfering in addition.
    >>
    >> Arno

    >
    > What part of "I have W98SE on a 40GB Maxtor - installed with no
    > problems" did you boys not understand?


    What part of 'I don't seem to be able to load W98SE on a 160GB Seagate' do you stupids not understand ?



  6. Re: W98SE on HD >40GB

    Rod Speed wrote:
    >
    > Folkert Rienstra wrote:
    > > Arno Wagner wrote in news:5obo2qFm26djU3@mid.individual.net
    > >> Previously Michael Cecil wrote:
    > >>> On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 16:34:18 +0100, Alan Peake
    > >>> wrote:
    > >>
    > >>>> Hi all,
    > >>>> I don't seem to be able to load W98SE on a 160GB Seagate
    > >>>> except on partitions less than about 8GB. I have W98SE on a 40GB
    > >>>> Maxtor - installed with no problems but no luck on the Seagate -
    > >>>> installation runs OK until tries to boot for the first time, then
    > >>>> says "Error loading user.exe"
    > >>>> Is there any way of overcoming this?
    > >>>> Thanks,
    > >>>> Alan
    > >>
    > >>> IIRC W98 had a FAT32 limit of ~128Gb. No way around, although WinME
    > >>> supposedly can do up to about 8TB.
    > >>
    > >> You can try to use a controller with its own BIOS, since you
    > >> might also have a BIOS limit interfering in addition.
    > >>
    > >> Arno

    > >
    > > What part of "I have W98SE on a 40GB Maxtor - installed with no
    > > problems" did you boys not understand?

    >
    > What part of 'I don't seem to be able to load W98SE on a 160GB Seagate' do you stupids not understand ?


    Come on, you two - why not paint it in black and white so the OP can at
    least get a gist of what you are hinting at?


    Duncan Clarke
    --
    Retrodata
    www.retrodata.co.uk
    Globally Local Data Recovery Experts

  7. Re: W98SE on HD >40GB

    Odiferous wrote:
    > Rod Speed wrote:
    >>
    >> Folkert Rienstra wrote:
    >>> Arno Wagner wrote in news:5obo2qFm26djU3@mid.individual.net
    >>>> Previously Michael Cecil wrote:
    >>>>> On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 16:34:18 +0100, Alan Peake
    >>>>> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>> Hi all,
    >>>>>> I don't seem to be able to load W98SE on a 160GB Seagate
    >>>>>> except on partitions less than about 8GB. I have W98SE on a 40GB
    >>>>>> Maxtor - installed with no problems but no luck on the Seagate -
    >>>>>> installation runs OK until tries to boot for the first time, then
    >>>>>> says "Error loading user.exe"
    >>>>>> Is there any way of overcoming this?
    >>>>>> Thanks,
    >>>>>> Alan
    >>>>
    >>>>> IIRC W98 had a FAT32 limit of ~128Gb. No way around, although
    >>>>> WinME supposedly can do up to about 8TB.
    >>>>
    >>>> You can try to use a controller with its own BIOS, since you
    >>>> might also have a BIOS limit interfering in addition.
    >>>>
    >>>> Arno
    >>>
    >>> What part of "I have W98SE on a 40GB Maxtor - installed with no
    >>> problems" did you boys not understand?

    >>
    >> What part of 'I don't seem to be able to load W98SE on a 160GB
    >> Seagate' do you stupids not understand ?

    >
    > Come on, you two - why not paint it in black and white so the OP can
    > at least get a gist of what you are hinting at?


    Why doesnt that apply to you ?



  8. Re: W98SE on HD >40GB

    Alan Peake wrote:

    > Hi all,
    > I don't seem to be able to load W98SE on a 160GB Seagate except on
    > partitions less than about 8GB. I have W98SE on a 40GB Maxtor -
    > installed with no problems but no luck on the Seagate - installation
    > runs OK until tries to boot for the first time, then says "Error loading
    > user.exe"
    > Is there any way of overcoming this?
    > Thanks,
    > Alan
    >

    I think there's a 130 +/- GB limit without making it look like SCSI.

    --
    The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
    minimize spam. Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net.

  9. Re: W98SE on HD >40GB

    CJT wrote in news:472135D8.7060606@prodigy.net
    > Alan Peake wrote:
    >
    > > Hi all,
    > > I don't seem to be able to load W98SE on a 160GB Seagate except on
    > > on partitions less than about 8GB. I have W98SE on a 40GB Maxtor -
    > > installed with no problems but no luck on the Seagate - installation
    > > runs OK until tries to boot for the first time, then says "Error loading
    > > user.exe"
    > > Is there any way of overcoming this?
    > > Thanks,
    > > Alan


    > I think


    Maybe you should stop doing that before you kill yourself.

    > there's a 130 +/- GB limit without making it look like SCSI


  10. Re: W98SE on HD >40GB

    Alan Peake wrote in news:47220602.2000702@killspam.internode.on.net
    > CJT wrote:
    > > Alan Peake wrote:
    > >
    > > > Hi all,
    > > > I don't seem to be able to load W98SE on a 160GB Seagate except on
    > > > partitions less than about 8GB. I have W98SE on a 40GB Maxtor -
    > > > installed with no problems but no luck on the Seagate - installation
    > > > runs OK until tries to boot for the first time, then says "Error
    > > > loading user.exe"
    > > > Is there any way of overcoming this?
    > > > Thanks,
    > > > Alan
    > > >

    > > I think there's a 130 +/- GB limit without making it look like SCSI.
    > >

    >
    > Well, I tried partitions on the 160GB ranging from 20GB to the maximum
    > disk size, including 40GB. It seems that W98SE is happy with a 40GB
    > disk on it's own but not a 40GB partition on a bigger drive.


    Leading to the suggestion that the larger size somehow makes
    Win98 Setup behave differently, whatever that 'differently' is.

    To check that you can make the drive smaller by shortstroking
    it's capacity to say 60GB with (say) HGST Feature Tool.

    > If I use the drive as the second HD, W98SE recognises the full 160GB.


    But can't use it (to the full 160GB).

    > Also, with W98SE on the primary partition of 8GB, it recognises
    > secondary partitions up to the remaining disk size without problems.


    Recognizes, which is different to 'can use'.
    It probably won't recognize a partition which bootrecord is located
    behind the 137GB limit either.

    > Alan


  11. Re: W98SE on HD >40GB



    CJT wrote:
    > Alan Peake wrote:
    >
    >> Hi all,
    >> I don't seem to be able to load W98SE on a 160GB Seagate except on
    >> partitions less than about 8GB. I have W98SE on a 40GB Maxtor -
    >> installed with no problems but no luck on the Seagate - installation
    >> runs OK until tries to boot for the first time, then says "Error
    >> loading user.exe"
    >> Is there any way of overcoming this?
    >> Thanks,
    >> Alan
    >>

    > I think there's a 130 +/- GB limit without making it look like SCSI.
    >


    Well, I tried partitions on the 160GB ranging from 20GB to the maximum
    disk size, including 40GB. It seems that W98SE is happy with a 40GB disk
    on it's own but not a 40GB partition on a bigger drive.
    If I use the drive as the second HD, W98SE recognises the full 160GB.
    Also, with W98SE on the primary partition of 8GB, it recognises
    secondary partitions up to the remaining disk size without problems.
    Alan


  12. Re: W98SE on HD >40GB

    Alan Peake wrote
    > CJT wrote
    >> Alan Peake wrote


    >>> I don't seem to be able to load W98SE on a 160GB Seagate except
    >>> on partitions less than about 8GB. I have W98SE on a 40GB Maxtor -
    >>> installed with no problems but no luck on the Seagate - installation
    >>> runs OK until tries to boot for the first time, then says "Error
    >>> loading user.exe"
    >>> Is there any way of overcoming this?


    >> I think there's a 130 +/- GB limit without making it look like SCSI.


    Sort of, the problem isnt with 'making it look like SCSI' tho.

    > Well, I tried partitions on the 160GB ranging from 20GB to the maximum disk size, including 40GB.


    That wont fix the problem with the lack of 48bit LBA thats the problem with drives over 128GB.

    > It seems that W98SE is happy with a 40GB disk on it's own but not a 40GB partition on a bigger drive.


    On a drive over 128GB, yes.

    > If I use the drive as the second HD, W98SE recognises the full 160GB.


    But wont necessarily work that well even then. Thats got a number of other problems.

    > Also, with W98SE on the primary partition of 8GB, it recognises
    > secondary partitions up to the remaining disk size without problems.


    But doesnt fix the problem either.
    http://www.48bitlba.com/win98.htm



  13. Re: W98SE on HD >40GB

    Rod Speed wrote in news:5oeq26FmpdjnU1@mid.individual.net
    > Alan Peake wrote
    > > CJT wrote
    > > > Alan Peake wrote

    >
    > > > > I don't seem to be able to load W98SE on a 160GB Seagate except
    > > > > on partitions less than about 8GB. I have W98SE on a 40GB Maxtor -
    > > > > installed with no problems but no luck on the Seagate - installation
    > > > > runs OK until tries to boot for the first time, then says "Error
    > > > > loading user.exe"
    > > > > Is there any way of overcoming this?

    >
    > > > I think there's a 130 +/- GB limit without making it look like SCSI.

    >
    > Sort of, the problem isnt with 'making it look like SCSI' tho.
    >
    > > Well, I tried partitions on the 160GB ranging from 20GB to the maximum disk
    > > size, including 40GB.

    >
    > That wont fix the problem with the lack of 48bit LBA thats the problem with
    > drives over 128GB.
    >
    > > It seems that W98SE is happy with a 40GB disk on it's own but not a 40GB
    > > partition on a bigger drive.

    >
    > On a drive over 128GB, yes.
    >
    > > If I use the drive as the second HD, W98SE recognises the full 160GB.

    >
    > But wont necessarily work that well even then. Thats got a number of other
    > problems.
    >
    > > Also, with W98SE on the primary partition of 8GB, it recognises
    > > secondary partitions up to the remaining disk size without problems.

    >
    > But doesnt fix the problem either.


    > http://www.48bitlba.com/win98.htm


    Which offers the Intel Application Accelerator if your board
    happens to be a supported INTEL one (440 chipsets and later).

  14. Re: W98SE on HD >40GB

    "Folkert Rienstra" wrote in message
    news:47226163$0$47156$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readf reenews.net...
    > Rod Speed wrote in news:5oeq26FmpdjnU1@mid.individual.net


    >> > It seems that W98SE is happy with a 40GB disk on it's own but not a 40GB
    >> > partition on a bigger drive.

    >>
    >> On a drive over 128GB, yes.
    >>
    >> > If I use the drive as the second HD, W98SE recognises the full 160GB.

    >>
    >> But wont necessarily work that well even then. Thats got a number of other
    >> problems.
    >>
    >> > Also, with W98SE on the primary partition of 8GB, it recognises
    >> > secondary partitions up to the remaining disk size without problems.

    >>
    >> But doesnt fix the problem either.

    >
    >> http://www.48bitlba.com/win98.htm

    >
    > Which offers the Intel Application Accelerator if your board
    > happens to be a supported INTEL one (440 chipsets and later).


    Nope, IAA supports series 8XX only: http://www.intel.com/support/chipset.../cs-009312.htm


  15. Re: W98SE on HD >40GB

    On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 16:34:18 +0100, Alan Peake
    wrote:

    >Hi all,
    > I don't seem to be able to load W98SE on a 160GB Seagate except on
    >partitions less than about 8GB. I have W98SE on a 40GB Maxtor -
    >installed with no problems but no luck on the Seagate - installation
    >runs OK until tries to boot for the first time, then says "Error loading
    >user.exe"
    >Is there any way of overcoming this?
    >Thanks,
    >Alan


    Windows 98SE installed without any problem on a Seagate ST3250823A
    250GB drive connected to a BioStar K8NHA Grand motherboard. I used
    fdisk (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/263044) to create a single
    250GB partition the disk, then formatted the partition, and finally
    installed Windows.

  16. Re: W98SE on HD >40GB

    Alan Peake wrote in news:47235C0E.3090904@killspam.internode.on.net
    > > Leading to the suggestion that the larger size somehow makes
    > > Win98 Setup behave differently, whatever that 'differently' is.
    > >
    > > To check that you can make the drive smaller by shortstroking
    > > it's capacity to say 60GB with (say) HGST Feature Tool.
    > >
    > >
    > > > If I use the drive as the second HD, W98SE recognises the full 160GB.

    > >
    > >
    > > But can't use it (to the full 160GB).


    > Well, I don't know that. I didn't actually try and write 160GB to it.
    > Explorer and ZTREE reckon there's 160GB


    Which they got from the drive's partition bootrecord.
    Presumably the partition was created in the DOS stage
    using your 48-bit LBA compatible BIOS.

    > so I assumed I can use it. Will try it later and see.


    That's a little risky. Writing to over 137GB may over-
    write the start of your drive and kill the partition.

    >
    > >
    > > > Also, with W98SE on the primary partition of 8GB, it recognises
    > > > secondary partitions up to the remaining disk size without problems.

    > >
    > >
    > > Recognizes, which is different to 'can use'.
    > > It probably won't recognize a partition which bootrecord is located
    > > behind the 137GB limit either.


    > I thought thought the 137GB limit was imposed by the older LBA thing.


    Yes, there is no other limit associated with Win98SE.
    If you are suffering from one, then that must be it. *

    Still, even with that I can't figure why this should affect
    installing Win98 to a size restricted partition below 137 GB.
    Are you sure it's not a one time fluke?



    * OTOH, I have had a scary moment with an older ESDI506 driver from
    Win98 (first edition) when I changed from a 5GB drive to a 20GB one.
    Windows stopped booting saying the driver was incompatible and that
    at next boot the drive would be used in compatability mode (meaning
    no driver loaded). Cost me a full day figuring out how to recover from
    that since the change was semi pertinent and the bigger problem was
    that with-out the driver loaded I lost access to my optical drives too.
    I restored the original SE driver and the problem did not reoccur


    > Alan


  17. Re: W98SE on HD >40GB

    Eric Gisin wrote in news:13i4s4ffibnkge4@corp.supernews.com
    > "Folkert Rienstra" wrote in news:47226163$0$47156$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readf reenews.net...
    > > Rod Speed wrote in news:5oeq26FmpdjnU1@mid.individual.net

    >
    > > > > It seems that W98SE is happy with a 40GB disk on it's own but not a 40GB
    > > > > partition on a bigger drive.
    > > >
    > > > On a drive over 128GB, yes.
    > > >
    > > > > If I use the drive as the second HD, W98SE recognises the full 160GB.
    > > >
    > > > But wont necessarily work that well even then. Thats got a number of other
    > > > problems.
    > > >
    > > > > Also, with W98SE on the primary partition of 8GB, it recognises
    > > > > secondary partitions up to the remaining disk size without problems.
    > > >
    > > > But doesnt fix the problem either.

    > >
    > > > http://www.48bitlba.com/win98.htm

    > >
    > > Which offers the Intel Application Accelerator if your board
    > > happens to be a supported INTEL one (440 chipsets and later).


    > Nope, IAA supports series 8XX only:
    > http://www.intel.com/support/chipset.../cs-009312.htm


    I stand corrected.

  18. Re: W98SE on HD >40GB


    > Leading to the suggestion that the larger size somehow makes
    > Win98 Setup behave differently, whatever that 'differently' is.
    >
    > To check that you can make the drive smaller by shortstroking
    > it's capacity to say 60GB with (say) HGST Feature Tool.
    >
    >
    >>If I use the drive as the second HD, W98SE recognises the full 160GB.

    >
    >
    > But can't use it (to the full 160GB).
    >

    Well, I don't know that. I didn't actually try and write 160GB to it.
    Explorer and ZTREE reckon there's 160GB so I assumed I can use it. Will
    try it later and see.

    >
    >>Also, with W98SE on the primary partition of 8GB, it recognises
    >>secondary partitions up to the remaining disk size without problems.

    >
    >
    > Recognizes, which is different to 'can use'.
    > It probably won't recognize a partition which bootrecord is located
    > behind the 137GB limit either.


    I thought thought the 137GB limit was imposed by the older LBA thing.
    Alan


  19. Re: W98SE on HD >40GB


    > But doesnt fix the problem either.
    > http://www.48bitlba.com/win98.htm



    >OK, thanks for the link - Had a look - need to read it fully I feel

    Alan


  20. Re: W98SE on HD >40GB

    Previously Alan Peake wrote:

    >> Leading to the suggestion that the larger size somehow makes
    >> Win98 Setup behave differently, whatever that 'differently' is.
    >>
    >> To check that you can make the drive smaller by shortstroking
    >> it's capacity to say 60GB with (say) HGST Feature Tool.
    >>
    >>
    >>>If I use the drive as the second HD, W98SE recognises the full 160GB.

    >>
    >>
    >> But can't use it (to the full 160GB).
    >>

    > Well, I don't know that. I didn't actually try and write 160GB to it.
    > Explorer and ZTREE reckon there's 160GB so I assumed I can use it. Will
    > try it later and see.


    Be careful with that. In the worst case the sector number will
    wrap and at some time the beginning of the disk
    will get overwritten. Win XP (nio service pack) does that
    for > 137GB. Far, far worse than just refusing to use it.

    Arno

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