Need to worry about HDD? "The driver detected a controller erroron \Device\Harddisk1\D." in XP Pro. SP2's system event logs. - Storage

This is a discussion on Need to worry about HDD? "The driver detected a controller erroron \Device\Harddisk1\D." in XP Pro. SP2's system event logs. - Storage ; SMART (as it exists in the disk drive) doesn't spontaneously report ANYTHING. It only makes it's status information available IF AN INQUIRY IS MADE by a SMART-aware diagnostic (or in some cases the BIOS on bootup). SMART may know that ...

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Thread: Need to worry about HDD? "The driver detected a controller erroron \Device\Harddisk1\D." in XP Pro. SP2's system event logs.

  1. Re: Need to worry about HDD? "The driver detected a controller erroron \Device\Harddisk1\D." in XP Pro. SP2's system event logs.

    SMART (as it exists in the disk drive) doesn't spontaneously report
    ANYTHING. It only makes it's status information available IF AN INQUIRY
    IS MADE by a SMART-aware diagnostic (or in some cases the BIOS on
    bootup). SMART may know that the disk is dying, but unless a
    SMART-aware diagnostic is explicitly run that asks for this information,
    it goes nowhere. SOME BIOS' are SMART-aware and do query the disk drive
    as part of POST (in some cases only as an option whose default may be
    not to query the drive). Other BIOS' are "SMART-unaware" (SMART-dumb?)


    DarthNeo wrote:
    > "Rod Speed" wrote in
    > news:5oeqbbFmibs1U1@mid.individual.net:
    >
    >> DarthNeo wrote:
    >>> Ant wrote in
    >>> news:471bcc10$0$9539$4c368faf@roadrunner.com:
    >>>
    >>>> Hello!
    >>>>
    >>>> I noticed most of the HDD controller errors occur during shutdown on
    >>>> my dad's old Toshiba Satellite P15-S470 notebook/laptop. A few of
    >>>> these errors even came up during the boot up. The computer only has
    >>>> one HDD, a D: DVD burner drive, and sometimes an external USB flash
    >>>> drive/stick.
    >>>>
    >>>> Exported Windows XP's System Event Logs with the sections that look
    >>>> suspicious can be found here: http://pastebin.ca/744908 ... I
    >>>> attached SpeedFan v4.32's online HTML SMART results (overall good)
    >>>> in this newsgroup post.
    >>>>
    >>>> What do you think? Thank you in advance.
    >>> I had an HD doing that (errors in Event Log) on me in the past (IBM
    >>> Travelstar). No SMART problems either. Then in about a month it
    >>> started clicking. SMART and IBM HDD test both showed it fine. I
    >>> backed it up. In another week it gave up a ghost. There was no
    >>> warning from SMART.

    >> Bet there was some evidence of the problem in the SMART data tho.
    >>
    >> It wont have been clicking without that producing evidence of a
    >> problem in the SMART data.

    >
    > Maybe, I have not seen any SMART warnings when it started clicking. And
    > how come it was fine when I saw disk read/access errors in Event Log?
    > When I hear clicking I do not need SMART to know that disk is about to
    > die.
    >
    >>> There was another HD (Toshiba) that SMART reported having
    >>> problems from the start. I don't remember what exact parameter
    >>> that was (probably Seek Error Rate in the range of millions).
    >>> That drive served me well for about 2 years until I replaced
    >>> it with higher capacity drive. Go figure.

    >> Easy to figure, some drives report seek errors differently.

    >
    > Precisely. And that tells us what? That SMART was not "smart."
    > Temperature reporting seems to be standard across all vendors though.
    > Hence its usefulness.
    >
    > What I was saying is that SMART may be of some use as an additional tool
    > but I would not rely on it.


  2. Re: Need to worry about HDD? "The driver detected a controller error on \Device\Harddisk1\D." in XP Pro. SP2's system event logs.

    Barry Watzman wrote in
    news:4722814d$0$24331$4c368faf@roadrunner.com:

    > SMART (as it exists in the disk drive) doesn't spontaneously report
    > ANYTHING. It only makes it's status information available IF AN
    > INQUIRY IS MADE by a SMART-aware diagnostic (or in some cases the BIOS
    > on bootup). SMART may know that the disk is dying, but unless a
    > SMART-aware diagnostic is explicitly run that asks for this
    > information, it goes nowhere. SOME BIOS' are SMART-aware and do query
    > the disk drive as part of POST (in some cases only as an option whose
    > default may be not to query the drive). Other BIOS' are
    > "SMART-unaware" (SMART-dumb?)


    I know that. I know the theory. We are talking about practical use. My
    point is all SMART parameters were within norm when drive started clicking.
    And one of the parameters was abnormal in the perfectly fine drive in
    another case. That's all. Just my experience. Make your own conclusions.

  3. Re: Need to worry about HDD? "The driver detected a controller error on \Device\Harddisk1\D." in XP Pro. SP2's system event logs.

    DarthNeo wrote
    > Rod Speed wrote
    >> DarthNeo wrote
    >>> Ant wrote


    >>>> I noticed most of the HDD controller errors occur during shutdown
    >>>> on my dad's old Toshiba Satellite P15-S470 notebook/laptop. A few
    >>>> of these errors even came up during the boot up. The computer only
    >>>> has one HDD, a D: DVD burner drive, and sometimes an external USB
    >>>> flash drive/stick.


    >>>> Exported Windows XP's System Event Logs with the sections
    >>>> that look suspicious can be found here: http://pastebin.ca/744908 ...
    >>>> I attached SpeedFan v4.32's online HTML SMART results
    >>>> (overall good) in this newsgroup post.


    >>>> What do you think? Thank you in advance.


    >>> I had an HD doing that (errors in Event Log) on me in the past
    >>> (IBM Travelstar). No SMART problems either. Then in about
    >>> a month it started clicking. SMART and IBM HDD test both
    >>> showed it fine. I backed it up. In another week it gave up
    >>> a ghost. There was no warning from SMART.


    >> Bet there was some evidence of the problem in the SMART data tho.


    >> It wont have been clicking without that producing evidence of a problem in the SMART data.


    > Maybe,


    No maybe about it unless you are grossly misusing the word clicking.

    > I have not seen any SMART warnings when it started clicking.


    You dont appear to be able to read and comprehend the SMART DATA.

    > And how come it was fine when I saw disk read/access errors in Event Log?


    Because some drive problems dont produce any error message in the event log.

    > When I hear clicking I do not need SMART to know that disk is about to die.


    But you do need to use the SMART data to distinguish between clicking
    thats due to the drive dying from clicking thats caused by a fault outside
    the physical drive, like power not getting to the drive reliably.

    If the drive is clicking because its recalibrating because it isnt able
    to read the platters properly, that should show up in the SMART data.

    >>> There was another HD (Toshiba) that SMART reported having
    >>> problems from the start. I don't remember what exact parameter
    >>> that was (probably Seek Error Rate in the range of millions).
    >>> That drive served me well for about 2 years until I replaced
    >>> it with higher capacity drive. Go figure.


    >> Easy to figure, some drives report seek errors differently.


    > Precisely.


    Nope.

    > And that tells us what?


    That that is normal for that particular manufacturer's drives.

    > That SMART was not "smart."


    Nope, that you arent smart enough to be able to read and comprehend
    the SMART data. Some of the SMART data is purely informational, it
    isnt JUST about evidence of imminent drive failure.

    > Temperature reporting seems to be standard across all vendors though.


    No it isnt.

    > Hence its usefulness.


    > What I was saying is that SMART may be of some
    > use as an additional tool but I would not rely on it.


    It was never claimed to be able to predict all drive failures. That isnt even possible.



  4. Re: Need to worry about HDD? "The driver detected a controller error on \Device\Harddisk1\D." in XP Pro. SP2's system event logs.

    DarthNeo wrote:
    > Barry Watzman wrote in
    > news:4722814d$0$24331$4c368faf@roadrunner.com:
    >
    >> SMART (as it exists in the disk drive) doesn't spontaneously report
    >> ANYTHING. It only makes it's status information available IF AN
    >> INQUIRY IS MADE by a SMART-aware diagnostic (or in some cases the
    >> BIOS on bootup). SMART may know that the disk is dying, but unless a
    >> SMART-aware diagnostic is explicitly run that asks for this
    >> information, it goes nowhere. SOME BIOS' are SMART-aware and do
    >> query the disk drive as part of POST (in some cases only as an
    >> option whose default may be not to query the drive). Other BIOS' are
    >> "SMART-unaware" (SMART-dumb?)


    > I know that. I know the theory. We are talking about practical use.
    > My point is all SMART parameters were within norm when drive started clicking.


    Thats the proof that you dont understand what SMART data is about.

    > And one of the parameters was abnormal in the perfectly fine drive in another case.


    And that in spades.

    > That's all. Just my experience. Make your own conclusions.


    That you dont understand what SMART is about.



  5. Re: Need to worry about HDD? "The driver detected a controller error on \Device\Harddisk1\D." in XP Pro. SP2's system event logs.

    DarthNeo wrote in news:Xns99D5CC3F54DDaboukirevblahamerite@216.196.9 7.131
    > Barry Watzman wrote in news:4722814d$0$24331$4c368faf@roadrunner.com:
    >
    > > SMART (as it exists in the disk drive) doesn't spontaneously report
    > > ANYTHING. It only makes it's status information available IF AN
    > > INQUIRY IS MADE by a SMART-aware diagnostic (or in some cases
    > > the BIOS on bootup). SMART may know that the disk is dying, but
    > > unless a SMART-aware diagnostic is explicitly run that asks for this
    > > information, it goes nowhere. SOME BIOS' are SMART-aware and do query
    > > the disk drive as part of POST (in some cases only as an option whose
    > > default may be not to query the drive).
    > > Other BIOS' are "SMART-unaware" (SMART-dumb?)

    >
    > I know that. I know the theory. We are talking about practical use.


    > My point is all SMART parameters were within norm when drive started
    > clicking.


    Uncorrectable read error 'bad' sectors are allowed so that's no reason
    for a bad S.M.A.R.T. status.

    > And one of the parameters was abnormal in the perfectly fine drive in
    > another case.


    Abnormal to you but not to S.M.A.R.T.

    > That's all. Just my experience.


    > Make your own conclusions.


    And so he did.

  6. Re: Need to worry about HDD? "The driver detected a controller error on \Device\Harddisk1\D." in XP Pro. SP2's system event logs.

    Rod Speed wrote in news:5ofnkeFmj7viU1@mid.individual.net
    > DarthNeo wrote
    > > Rod Speed wrote
    > > > DarthNeo wrote
    > > > > Ant wrote

    >
    > > > > > I noticed most of the HDD controller errors occur during shutdown
    > > > > > on my dad's old Toshiba Satellite P15-S470 notebook/laptop. A few
    > > > > > of these errors even came up during the boot up. The computer only
    > > > > > has one HDD, a D: DVD burner drive, and sometimes an external USB
    > > > > > flash drive/stick.

    >
    > > > > > Exported Windows XP's System Event Logs with the sections
    > > > > > that look suspicious can be found here: http://pastebin.ca/744908 ...
    > > > > > I attached SpeedFan v4.32's online HTML SMART results
    > > > > > (overall good) in this newsgroup post.

    >
    > > > > > What do you think? Thank you in advance.

    >
    > > > > I had an HD doing that (errors in Event Log) on me in the past
    > > > > (IBM Travelstar). No SMART problems either. Then in about
    > > > > a month it started clicking. SMART and IBM HDD test both
    > > > > showed it fine. I backed it up. In another week it gave up
    > > > > a ghost. There was no warning from SMART.

    >
    > > > Bet there was some evidence of the problem in the SMART data tho.

    >
    > > > It wont have been clicking without that producing evidence of a problem
    > > > in the SMART data.

    >
    > > Maybe,

    >
    > No maybe about it unless you are grossly misusing the word clicking.
    >
    > > I have not seen any SMART warnings when it started clicking.

    >
    > You dont appear to be able to read and comprehend the SMART DATA.


    > > And how come it was fine when I saw disk read/access errors in Event Log?

    >
    > Because some drive problems dont produce any error message in the event log.


    Ooh, that made such a lot of sense.

    >
    > > When I hear clicking I do not need SMART to know that disk is about to die.


    > But you do need to use the SMART data to distinguish between clicking
    > thats due to the drive dying from clicking thats caused by a fault outside
    > the physical drive, like power not getting to the drive reliably.
    >
    > If the drive is clicking because its recalibrating because it isnt able
    > to read the platters properly, that should show up in the SMART data.


    That too.

    >
    > > > > There was another HD (Toshiba) that SMART reported having
    > > > > problems from the start. I don't remember what exact parameter
    > > > > that was (probably Seek Error Rate in the range of millions).
    > > > > That drive served me well for about 2 years until I replaced
    > > > > it with higher capacity drive. Go figure.

    >
    > > > Easy to figure, some drives report seek errors differently.

    >
    > > Precisely.

    >
    > Nope.
    >
    > > And that tells us what?

    >
    > That that is normal for that particular manufacturer's drives.
    >
    > > That SMART was not "smart."


    > Nope, that you arent smart enough to be able to read and comprehend
    > the SMART data.


    Well, then at least there's something the two of you have in common.

    > Some of the SMART data is purely informational, it
    > isnt JUST about evidence of imminent drive failure.
    >
    > > Temperature reporting seems to be standard across all vendors though.

    >
    > No it isnt.
    >
    > > Hence its usefulness.

    >
    > > What I was saying is that SMART may be of some
    > > use as an additional tool but I would not rely on it.

    >
    > It was never claimed to be able to predict all drive failures. That isnt even
    > possible.


  7. Re: Need to worry about HDD? "The driver detected a controller error on \Device\Harddisk1\D." in XP Pro. SP2's system event logs.

    "Rod Speed" wrote in
    news:5ofnmiFmn07tU1@mid.individual.net:

    > DarthNeo wrote:
    >> I know that. I know the theory. We are talking about practical use.
    >> My point is all SMART parameters were within norm when drive started
    >> clicking.

    >
    > Thats the proof that you dont understand what SMART data is about.
    >
    >> And one of the parameters was abnormal in the perfectly fine drive in
    >> another case.

    >
    > And that in spades.
    >
    >> That's all. Just my experience. Make your own conclusions.

    >
    > That you dont understand what SMART is about.


    I let my guard off and decided to reply in USENET group. What a mistake.
    This thread is a good example of how people start twisting the subject
    and lead it astray.

    The OP was told in first response to disregard error messages in Error
    Log because SMART was reporting everything fine.

    My response was that in the similar situation my HD was soon dead. Just
    a "beware" post.

    Go back to the beginning of the thread and read what it was about. Maybe
    then you'll have at least some understanding yourself.


  8. Re: Need to worry about HDD? "The driver detected a controller error on \Device\Harddisk1\D." in XP Pro. SP2's system event logs.

    DarthNeo wrote
    > Rod Speed wrote
    >> DarthNeo wrote


    >>> I know that. I know the theory. We are talking about practical use. My point
    >>> is all SMART parameters were within norm when drive started clicking.


    >> Thats the proof that you dont understand what SMART data is about.


    >>> And one of the parameters was abnormal in the perfectly fine drive in another case.


    >> And that in spades.


    >>> That's all. Just my experience. Make your own conclusions.


    >> That you dont understand what SMART is about.


    > I let my guard off and decided to reply in USENET group. What a mistake.


    Yeah, quite a foot shot when you clearly dont have a clue about what SMART is about.

    > This thread is a good example of how people start twisting the subject and lead it astray.


    Yours is a perfect example of someone who couldnt bull**** and lie their way out of a wet
    paper bag when your nose is rubbed in the terminal stupidity of your comments about SMART.

    > The OP was told in first response to disregard error messages
    > in Error Log because SMART was reporting everything fine.


    No he wasnt told anything of the sort.

    > My response was that in the similar situation my HD was soon dead.
    > Just a "beware" post.


    And you flaunted your complete pig ignorance of what SMART is actually about.

    > Go back to the beginning of the thread and read what it was about.


    I know what it was about, I replied to the OP myself.

    I ALSO chose to comment on your complete pig ignorance that is completely useless to the OP too.

    > Maybe then you'll have at least some understanding yourself.


    I understand fine thanks. And I also understand that you couldnt bull**** your way
    out of a wet paper bag even if your pathetic excuse for a 'life' depended on it.

    So has everyone else who has chosen to comment on your stupid claims too.



  9. Re: Need to worry about HDD? "The driver detected a controller error on \Device\Harddisk1\D." in XP Pro. SP2's system event logs.

    In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage DarthNeo wrote:
    > "Rod Speed" wrote in
    > news:5ofnmiFmn07tU1@mid.individual.net:


    >> DarthNeo wrote:
    >>> I know that. I know the theory. We are talking about practical use.
    >>> My point is all SMART parameters were within norm when drive started
    >>> clicking.

    >>
    >> Thats the proof that you dont understand what SMART data is about.
    >>
    >>> And one of the parameters was abnormal in the perfectly fine drive in
    >>> another case.

    >>
    >> And that in spades.
    >>
    >>> That's all. Just my experience. Make your own conclusions.

    >>
    >> That you dont understand what SMART is about.


    > I let my guard off and decided to reply in USENET group. What a mistake.
    > This thread is a good example of how people start twisting the subject
    > and lead it astray.


    > The OP was told in first response to disregard error messages in Error
    > Log because SMART was reporting everything fine.


    > My response was that in the similar situation my HD was soon dead. Just
    > a "beware" post.


    > Go back to the beginning of the thread and read what it was about. Maybe
    > then you'll have at least some understanding yourself.


    There are allways abrasive people on USENET, that know better.
    Some are polite, some are less so. No reason not to post.

    As to SMART: A significant part of failed disks fail without
    SMART warning or even any indication in the SMART attributes.
    Manufacturers admit that. Studies have shown this to happen.
    I do not have current numbers. However the larger part
    fails with giving indications in the SMART data before.
    Personally I had only disks failures with indications
    in the SMART data, but not necessarily SMART failures.

    Of course SMART has to be on. And either SMART offline
    data collection has to be on (off in many drives by default)
    or you have to run long SMART selftests periodically (I do
    automatic ones every 14 days.). Failing that the risk
    of no warning from SMART increases significanly.

    Arno

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