Setup a cluster with desktop PCs??

I am an MSDN developer and would like to setup and configure a basic 2-node
cluster environment but don't have access to full blown servers or SAN
hardware. I do have at my disposal several new desktop PCs (Dual Pentium 4
3.2Ghz with 1GB RAM).

Is there any way I can take, for example, 3 of those PCs, configure one to
"act" like a SAN device, setup a 2-node cluster with the other two using the
first box as the shared storage device? I have access to Standard and
Enterprise Editions of Windows 2003 R2 for development and test purposes and
can wipe and install anything on these boxes as needed.

Do I even need a SAN to cluster? If not, how would I accomplish the
requirement for shared storage with what I have available?

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give.

- Dave

IMHO, you could take one of those machines and make virtual cluster
personally, i would add more ram, say at least to 2gb...4gb would be even
better
then use virtual server to create a 2 node cluster; no need for san as you
can create virtual disks and setup virtual scsi adapters for clustering
i've done it a few times in creating 2 node exchange clusters for testing
and works very nicely
virtual server can run on XP/2003/Vista with IIS

here are some resources to help you out:

Using Microsoft Virtual Server 2005 to Create and Configure a Two-Node
Microsoft Windows Server 2003 Cluster
[url]http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/virtualserver/deploy/cvs2005.mspx[/url]

Virtual Server 2005 R2 - Enterprise Edition
[url]http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=6dba2278-b022-4f56-af96-7b95975db13b&DisplayLang=en[/url]

HTH


"Dave Slinn" <CougarDave@noemail.noemail> wrote in message
news:%23wFcFNRuHHA.5072@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
>I am an MSDN developer and would like to setup and configure a basic 2-node
>cluster environment but don't have access to full blown servers or SAN
>hardware. I do have at my disposal several new desktop PCs (Dual Pentium 4
>3.2Ghz with 1GB RAM).
>
> Is there any way I can take, for example, 3 of those PCs, configure one to
> "act" like a SAN device, setup a 2-node cluster with the other two using
> the first box as the shared storage device? I have access to Standard and
> Enterprise Editions of Windows 2003 R2 for development and test purposes
> and can wipe and install anything on these boxes as needed.
>
> Do I even need a SAN to cluster? If not, how would I accomplish the
> requirement for shared storage with what I have available?
>
> Thanks in advance for any advice you can give.
>
> - Dave
>[/color]

I had thought of that, and may have to do some of my testing with that
setup, but my ideal goal is to setup clustering between two virtual machines
that are separated on different physical servers. I want to see if that is
even possible and second I would like to test some scenarios where the
entire physical server is taken offline and see automatic (or manual if
needed) failover to the vm's on the other server...

"seth" <seth@myhouse.org> wrote in message
news:uLnc$VRuHHA.536@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> IMHO, you could take one of those machines and make virtual cluster
> personally, i would add more ram, say at least to 2gb...4gb would be even
> better
> then use virtual server to create a 2 node cluster; no need for san as you
> can create virtual disks and setup virtual scsi adapters for clustering
> i've done it a few times in creating 2 node exchange clusters for testing
> and works very nicely
> virtual server can run on XP/2003/Vista with IIS
>
> here are some resources to help you out:
>
> Using Microsoft Virtual Server 2005 to Create and Configure a Two-Node
> Microsoft Windows Server 2003 Cluster
> [url]http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/virtualserver/deploy/cvs2005.mspx[/url]
>
> Virtual Server 2005 R2 - Enterprise Edition
> [url]http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=6dba2278-b022-4f56-af96-7b95975db13b&DisplayLang=en[/url]
>
> HTH
>
>
> "Dave Slinn" <CougarDave@noemail.noemail> wrote in message
> news:%23wFcFNRuHHA.5072@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...[color=green]
>>I am an MSDN developer and would like to setup and configure a basic
>>2-node cluster environment but don't have access to full blown servers or
>>SAN hardware. I do have at my disposal several new desktop PCs (Dual
>>Pentium 4 3.2Ghz with 1GB RAM).
>>
>> Is there any way I can take, for example, 3 of those PCs, configure one
>> to "act" like a SAN device, setup a 2-node cluster with the other two
>> using the first box as the shared storage device? I have access to
>> Standard and Enterprise Editions of Windows 2003 R2 for development and
>> test purposes and can wipe and install anything on these boxes as needed.
>>
>> Do I even need a SAN to cluster? If not, how would I accomplish the
>> requirement for shared storage with what I have available?
>>
>> Thanks in advance for any advice you can give.
>>
>> - Dave
>>[/color]
>[/color]

Perhaps instead of clustering in the individual virtual machines I should be
considering clustering the physical server. Would every VM on that server
thereby be clustered? Suppose I had 4 VM's running on one physical server -
if the server fails but is clustered, would the failover to the other node
work for all 4 VM's?


"Dave Slinn" <CougarDave@noemail.noemail> wrote in message
news:%239UYFfTuHHA.3588@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
>I had thought of that, and may have to do some of my testing with that
>setup, but my ideal goal is to setup clustering between two virtual
>machines that are separated on different physical servers. I want to see
>if that is even possible and second I would like to test some scenarios
>where the entire physical server is taken offline and see automatic (or
>manual if needed) failover to the vm's on the other server...
>
> "seth" <seth@myhouse.org> wrote in message
> news:uLnc$VRuHHA.536@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...[color=green]
>> IMHO, you could take one of those machines and make virtual cluster
>> personally, i would add more ram, say at least to 2gb...4gb would be even
>> better
>> then use virtual server to create a 2 node cluster; no need for san as
>> you can create virtual disks and setup virtual scsi adapters for
>> clustering
>> i've done it a few times in creating 2 node exchange clusters for testing
>> and works very nicely
>> virtual server can run on XP/2003/Vista with IIS
>>
>> here are some resources to help you out:
>>
>> Using Microsoft Virtual Server 2005 to Create and Configure a Two-Node
>> Microsoft Windows Server 2003 Cluster
>> [url]http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/virtualserver/deploy/cvs2005.mspx[/url]
>>
>> Virtual Server 2005 R2 - Enterprise Edition
>> [url]http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=6dba2278-b022-4f56-af96-7b95975db13b&DisplayLang=en[/url]
>>
>> HTH
>>
>>
>> "Dave Slinn" <CougarDave@noemail.noemail> wrote in message
>> news:%23wFcFNRuHHA.5072@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...[color=darkred]
>>>I am an MSDN developer and would like to setup and configure a basic
>>>2-node cluster environment but don't have access to full blown servers or
>>>SAN hardware. I do have at my disposal several new desktop PCs (Dual
>>>Pentium 4 3.2Ghz with 1GB RAM).
>>>
>>> Is there any way I can take, for example, 3 of those PCs, configure one
>>> to "act" like a SAN device, setup a 2-node cluster with the other two
>>> using the first box as the shared storage device? I have access to
>>> Standard and Enterprise Editions of Windows 2003 R2 for development and
>>> test purposes and can wipe and install anything on these boxes as
>>> needed.
>>>
>>> Do I even need a SAN to cluster? If not, how would I accomplish the
>>> requirement for shared storage with what I have available?
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance for any advice you can give.
>>>
>>> - Dave
>>>[/color]
>>[/color]
>
>[/color]

"Dave Slinn" <CougarDave@noemail.noemail> wrote in message
news:e4bDQhYuHHA.4964@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> Perhaps instead of clustering in the individual virtual machines I should
> be considering clustering the physical server. Would every VM on that
> server thereby be clustered? Suppose I had 4 VM's running on one physical
> server - if the server fails but is clustered, would the failover to the
> other node work for all 4 VM's?[/color]

I think you will find your answer here.

[url]http://technet2.microsoft.com/WindowsServer/en/Library/9a3de6d0-c820-41ac-860c-de950d271f8d1033.mspx?mfr=true[/url]


--
Russ Kaufmann
MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
ClusterHelp.com, a Microsoft Certified Gold Partner
Web [url]http://www.clusterhelp.com[/url]
Blog [url]http://msmvps.com/clusterhelp[/url]

The next ClusterHelp classes are:
July 10-13 in Denver
July 16-19 in New York
Sep 3 - 6 in Copenhagen

With host clustering, the VM's don't appear to be truly clustered. It gives
you redundancy at the physical server level, but not on the VM's. One of my
goals is to achieve the ability to reboot the exchange server but without it
affecting the users so it can occur during normal business hours when we
have a full complement of IT staff working. With MS updates out every
month, trying to schedule a time when a reboot will affect users the least
without demanding IT staff from having to come in at 4:00am Sunday mornings
is getting harder and harder.

Can you do some sort of physical host clustering and also have the VM's
clustered with a virtual SCSI network (both nodes on the same physical
server)... In essence, won't I be running 4 VM's for a single Exchange
instance??


"Russ Kaufmann [MVP]" <russ@clusterhelp.com> wrote in message
news:19B77C05-2196-45E1-A887-AF9DADB7E1D1@microsoft.com...[color=blue]
> "Dave Slinn" <CougarDave@noemail.noemail> wrote in message
> news:e4bDQhYuHHA.4964@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...[color=green]
>> Perhaps instead of clustering in the individual virtual machines I should
>> be considering clustering the physical server. Would every VM on that
>> server thereby be clustered? Suppose I had 4 VM's running on one
>> physical server - if the server fails but is clustered, would the
>> failover to the other node work for all 4 VM's?[/color]
>
> I think you will find your answer here.
>
> [url]http://technet2.microsoft.com/WindowsServer/en/Library/9a3de6d0-c820-41ac-860c-de950d271f8d1033.mspx?mfr=true[/url]
>
>
> --
> Russ Kaufmann
> MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
> ClusterHelp.com, a Microsoft Certified Gold Partner
> Web [url]http://www.clusterhelp.com[/url]
> Blog [url]http://msmvps.com/clusterhelp[/url]
>
> The next ClusterHelp classes are:
> July 10-13 in Denver
> July 16-19 in New York
> Sep 3 - 6 in Copenhagen[/color]

"Dave Slinn" <CougarDave@noemail.noemail> wrote in message
news:%23GiWv$1uHHA.2360@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> With host clustering, the VM's don't appear to be truly clustered. It
> gives you redundancy at the physical server level, but not on the VM's.
> One of my goals is to achieve the ability to reboot the exchange server
> but without it affecting the users so it can occur during normal business
> hours when we have a full complement of IT staff working.[/color]

Sorry, that is a pipe dream.


--
Russ Kaufmann
MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
ClusterHelp.com, a Microsoft Certified Gold Partner
Web [url]http://www.clusterhelp.com[/url]
Blog [url]http://msmvps.com/clusterhelp[/url]

The next ClusterHelp classes are:
July 10-13 in Denver
July 16-19 in New York
Sep 3 - 6 in Copenhagen

Seriously?? With all the tools available - virtualization, clustering, load
balancing, etc - updates must still be rolled out in the middle of the night
when "supposedly" everyone in the world is sleeping???

"Russ Kaufmann [MVP]" <russ@clusterhelp.com> wrote in message
news:B6CA4779-B5C0-4B4C-84DF-46BA18E42B04@microsoft.com...[color=blue]
> "Dave Slinn" <CougarDave@noemail.noemail> wrote in message
> news:%23GiWv$1uHHA.2360@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...[color=green]
>> With host clustering, the VM's don't appear to be truly clustered. It
>> gives you redundancy at the physical server level, but not on the VM's.
>> One of my goals is to achieve the ability to reboot the exchange server
>> but without it affecting the users so it can occur during normal business
>> hours when we have a full complement of IT staff working.[/color]
>
> Sorry, that is a pipe dream.
>
>
> --
> Russ Kaufmann
> MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
> ClusterHelp.com, a Microsoft Certified Gold Partner
> Web [url]http://www.clusterhelp.com[/url]
> Blog [url]http://msmvps.com/clusterhelp[/url]
>
> The next ClusterHelp classes are:
> July 10-13 in Denver
> July 16-19 in New York
> Sep 3 - 6 in Copenhagen[/color]

"Dave Slinn" <CougarDave@noemail.noemail> wrote in message
news:%23qkmTICvHHA.5028@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> Seriously?? With all the tools available - virtualization, clustering,
> load balancing, etc - updates must still be rolled out in the middle of
> the night when "supposedly" everyone in the world is sleeping???[/color]

You can do it whenever you want, but your requirement that the client not
lose its connection just isn't feasible.

If you aren't ready to work off-hours, IT might not be the best field for
you. We do lots of work during off hours as part of our risk mitigation for
the change itself. It is just part of the job.

--
Russ Kaufmann
MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
ClusterHelp.com, a Microsoft Certified Gold Partner
Web [url]http://www.clusterhelp.com[/url]
Blog [url]http://msmvps.com/clusterhelp[/url]

The next ClusterHelp classes are:
July 10-13 in Denver
July 16-19 in New York
Sep 3 - 6 in Copenhagen