Everything hesitating or stuttering; Fixed by replacing the drive, but now happening again - Storage

This is a discussion on Everything hesitating or stuttering; Fixed by replacing the drive, but now happening again - Storage ; Not so long ago, I posted about a problem I had with the hard drive: http://snipurl.com/1q4s3 , another thread at http://snipurl.com/1q4sz Everything was hesitating or stuttering. I cloned the drive and replaced it, because the SMART results indicated it was ...

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  1. Everything hesitating or stuttering; Fixed by replacing the drive, but now happening again

    Not so long ago, I posted about a problem I had with the hard drive:
    http://snipurl.com/1q4s3, another thread at http://snipurl.com/1q4sz
    Everything was hesitating or stuttering. I cloned the drive and
    replaced it, because the SMART results indicated it was going bad ("C5
    Current Pending Sector Count 0 100 100 19 OK: Always passing"). The
    drive replacement solved the problem until today.

    It seems I'm having the same problem - the same symptoms - with this
    new drive. I haven't done much to fix it yet. I'm defraging now to see
    if that helps. Below are the current SMART results.

    Is the new drive bad too? Any ideas? Ron, I hope you're out there :-)

    Device Description
    WDC WD800BEVE-11UYT0 (WD-WXH607044547)

    ID Attribute Description Threshold Value Worst Data Status
    01 Raw Read Error Rate 51 200 200 7 OK: Value is normal
    03 Spin Up Time 21 189 188 1516 OK: Value is normal
    04 Start/Stop Count 0 100 100 103 OK: Always passing
    05 Reallocated Sector Count 140 200 200 0 OK: Value is normal
    07 Seek Error Rate 51 100 253 0 OK: Value is normal
    09 Power-On Time Count 0 100 100 373 OK: Always passing
    0A Spin Retry Count 51 100 100 0 OK: Value is normal
    0B Calibration Retry Count 51 100 253 0 OK: Value is normal
    0C Power Cycle Count 0 100 100 92 OK: Always passing
    C0 Power-Off Retract Count 0 200 200 7 OK: Always passing
    C1 Load/Unload Cycle Count 0 197 197 10827 OK: Always passing
    C2 Temperature 0 97 90 50 OK: Always passing
    C4 Reallocation Event Count 0 200 200 0 OK: Always passing
    C5 Current Pending Sector Count 0 200 200 0 OK: Always passing
    C6 Off-Line Uncorrectable Sector Count 0 100 253 0 OK: Always passing
    C7 Ultra ATA CRC Error Rate 0 200 200 0 OK: Always passing
    C8 Write Error Rate 51 100 253 0 OK: Value is normal

    --
    Nehmo


  2. Re: Everything hesitating or stuttering; Fixed by replacing the drive, but now happening again


    "Nehmo" wrote in message
    news:1188495912.134784.322560@57g2000hsv.googlegro ups.com...
    > Not so long ago, I posted about a problem I had with the hard drive:
    > http://snipurl.com/1q4s3, another thread at http://snipurl.com/1q4sz
    > Everything was hesitating or stuttering. I cloned the drive and
    > replaced it, because the SMART results indicated it was going bad ("C5
    > Current Pending Sector Count 0 100 100 19 OK: Always passing"). The
    > drive replacement solved the problem until today.
    >
    > It seems I'm having the same problem - the same symptoms - with this
    > new drive. I haven't done much to fix it yet. I'm defraging now to see
    > if that helps. Below are the current SMART results.
    >
    > Is the new drive bad too? Any ideas? Ron, I hope you're out there :-)
    >
    > Device Description
    > WDC WD800BEVE-11UYT0 (WD-WXH607044547)
    >
    > ID Attribute Description Threshold Value Worst Data Status
    > 01 Raw Read Error Rate 51 200 200 7 OK: Value is normal
    > 03 Spin Up Time 21 189 188 1516 OK: Value is normal
    > 04 Start/Stop Count 0 100 100 103 OK: Always passing
    > 05 Reallocated Sector Count 140 200 200 0 OK: Value is normal
    > 07 Seek Error Rate 51 100 253 0 OK: Value is normal
    > 09 Power-On Time Count 0 100 100 373 OK: Always passing
    > 0A Spin Retry Count 51 100 100 0 OK: Value is normal
    > 0B Calibration Retry Count 51 100 253 0 OK: Value is normal
    > 0C Power Cycle Count 0 100 100 92 OK: Always passing
    > C0 Power-Off Retract Count 0 200 200 7 OK: Always passing
    > C1 Load/Unload Cycle Count 0 197 197 10827 OK: Always passing
    > C2 Temperature 0 97 90 50 OK: Always passing
    > C4 Reallocation Event Count 0 200 200 0 OK: Always passing
    > C5 Current Pending Sector Count 0 200 200 0 OK: Always passing
    > C6 Off-Line Uncorrectable Sector Count 0 100 253 0 OK: Always passing
    > C7 Ultra ATA CRC Error Rate 0 200 200 0 OK: Always passing
    > C8 Write Error Rate 51 100 253 0 OK: Value is normal
    >
    > --
    > Nehmo
    >


    Check your 12v/5v rail voltages.
    Are you using the same ribbon/sata cable?
    Sata controller header 1 / 2 try swapping
    IDE try the secondary.



  3. Re: Everything hesitating or stuttering; Fixed by replacing the drive, but now happening again

    On Aug 30, 12:50 pm, "JAD"
    wrote:
    > "Nehmo" wrote in message
    >
    > news:1188495912.134784.322560@57g2000hsv.googlegro ups.com...
    >
    >
    >
    > > Not so long ago, I posted about a problem I had with the hard drive:
    > >http://snipurl.com/1q4s3, another thread athttp://snipurl.com/1q4sz
    > > Everything was hesitating or stuttering. I cloned the drive and
    > > replaced it, because the SMART results indicated it was going bad ("C5
    > > Current Pending Sector Count 0 100 100 19 OK: Always passing"). The
    > > drive replacement solved the problem until today.

    >
    > > It seems I'm having the same problem - the same symptoms - with this
    > > new drive. I haven't done much to fix it yet. I'm defraging now to see
    > > if that helps. Below are the current SMART results.

    >
    > > Is the new drive bad too? Any ideas? Ron, I hope you're out there :-)

    >
    > > Device Description
    > > WDC WD800BEVE-11UYT0 (WD-WXH607044547)

    >
    > > ID Attribute Description Threshold Value Worst Data Status
    > > 01 Raw Read Error Rate 51 200 200 7 OK: Value is normal
    > > 03 Spin Up Time 21 189 188 1516 OK: Value is normal
    > > 04 Start/Stop Count 0 100 100 103 OK: Always passing
    > > 05 Reallocated Sector Count 140 200 200 0 OK: Value is normal
    > > 07 Seek Error Rate 51 100 253 0 OK: Value is normal
    > > 09 Power-On Time Count 0 100 100 373 OK: Always passing
    > > 0A Spin Retry Count 51 100 100 0 OK: Value is normal
    > > 0B Calibration Retry Count 51 100 253 0 OK: Value is normal
    > > 0C Power Cycle Count 0 100 100 92 OK: Always passing
    > > C0 Power-Off Retract Count 0 200 200 7 OK: Always passing
    > > C1 Load/Unload Cycle Count 0 197 197 10827 OK: Always passing
    > > C2 Temperature 0 97 90 50 OK: Always passing
    > > C4 Reallocation Event Count 0 200 200 0 OK: Always passing
    > > C5 Current Pending Sector Count 0 200 200 0 OK: Always passing
    > > C6 Off-Line Uncorrectable Sector Count 0 100 253 0 OK: Always passing
    > > C7 Ultra ATA CRC Error Rate 0 200 200 0 OK: Always passing
    > > C8 Write Error Rate 51 100 253 0 OK: Value is normal

    >
    > > --
    > > Nehmo

    >
    > Check your 12v/5v rail voltages.
    > Are you using the same ribbon/sata cable?
    > Sata controller header 1 / 2 try swapping
    > IDE try the secondary.


    It's a laptop, Compaq Presario v2000 http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=2580
    .. I don't think there is a secondary.
    Are you suggesting the voltage may be too high and that that is
    burning out the drives?
    Does the SMART data from the new drive look bad? It doesn't have the
    suspicious ("C5
    Current Pending Sector Count 0 100 100 19 OK: Always passing") item
    that the old drive had.
    --
    Nehmo


  4. Re: Everything hesitating or stuttering; Fixed by replacing the drive, but now happening again


    "Nehmo" wrote in message
    news:1188498648.061074.224030@i13g2000prf.googlegr oups.com...
    > On Aug 30, 12:50 pm, "JAD"
    > wrote:
    >> "Nehmo" wrote in message
    >>
    >> news:1188495912.134784.322560@57g2000hsv.googlegro ups.com...
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> > Not so long ago, I posted about a problem I had with the hard drive:
    >> >http://snipurl.com/1q4s3, another thread athttp://snipurl.com/1q4sz
    >> > Everything was hesitating or stuttering. I cloned the drive and
    >> > replaced it, because the SMART results indicated it was going bad ("C5
    >> > Current Pending Sector Count 0 100 100 19 OK: Always passing"). The
    >> > drive replacement solved the problem until today.

    >>
    >> > It seems I'm having the same problem - the same symptoms - with this
    >> > new drive. I haven't done much to fix it yet. I'm defraging now to see
    >> > if that helps. Below are the current SMART results.

    >>
    >> > Is the new drive bad too? Any ideas? Ron, I hope you're out there :-)

    >>
    >> > Device Description
    >> > WDC WD800BEVE-11UYT0 (WD-WXH607044547)

    >>
    >> > ID Attribute Description Threshold Value Worst Data Status
    >> > 01 Raw Read Error Rate 51 200 200 7 OK: Value is normal
    >> > 03 Spin Up Time 21 189 188 1516 OK: Value is normal
    >> > 04 Start/Stop Count 0 100 100 103 OK: Always passing
    >> > 05 Reallocated Sector Count 140 200 200 0 OK: Value is normal
    >> > 07 Seek Error Rate 51 100 253 0 OK: Value is normal
    >> > 09 Power-On Time Count 0 100 100 373 OK: Always passing
    >> > 0A Spin Retry Count 51 100 100 0 OK: Value is normal
    >> > 0B Calibration Retry Count 51 100 253 0 OK: Value is normal
    >> > 0C Power Cycle Count 0 100 100 92 OK: Always passing
    >> > C0 Power-Off Retract Count 0 200 200 7 OK: Always passing
    >> > C1 Load/Unload Cycle Count 0 197 197 10827 OK: Always passing
    >> > C2 Temperature 0 97 90 50 OK: Always passing
    >> > C4 Reallocation Event Count 0 200 200 0 OK: Always passing
    >> > C5 Current Pending Sector Count 0 200 200 0 OK: Always passing
    >> > C6 Off-Line Uncorrectable Sector Count 0 100 253 0 OK: Always passing
    >> > C7 Ultra ATA CRC Error Rate 0 200 200 0 OK: Always passing
    >> > C8 Write Error Rate 51 100 253 0 OK: Value is normal

    >>
    >> > --
    >> > Nehmo

    >>
    >> Check your 12v/5v rail voltages.
    >> Are you using the same ribbon/sata cable?
    >> Sata controller header 1 / 2 try swapping
    >> IDE try the secondary.

    >
    > It's a laptop, Compaq Presario v2000
    > http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=2580


    OIC

    > . I don't think there is a secondary.
    > Are you suggesting the voltage may be too high and that that is
    > burning out the drives?


    check the walwarts(power supply) output. I was thinking more like 'undervoltage'.
    If yours will run without the battery, while plugged into the power supply, try that.




    > Does the SMART data from the new drive look bad? It doesn't have the
    > suspicious ("C5


    many times this info is misleading. I do not rely soley on this diag.

    > Current Pending Sector Count 0 100 100 19 OK: Always passing") item
    > that the old drive had.
    > --
    > Nehmo
    >




  5. Re: Everything hesitating or stuttering; Fixed by replacing the drive, but now happening again

    In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Nehmo wrote:
    > Not so long ago, I posted about a problem I had with the hard drive:
    > http://snipurl.com/1q4s3, another thread at http://snipurl.com/1q4sz
    > Everything was hesitating or stuttering. I cloned the drive and
    > replaced it, because the SMART results indicated it was going bad ("C5
    > Current Pending Sector Count 0 100 100 19 OK: Always passing"). The
    > drive replacement solved the problem until today.


    > It seems I'm having the same problem - the same symptoms - with this
    > new drive. I haven't done much to fix it yet. I'm defraging now to see
    > if that helps. Below are the current SMART results.


    > Is the new drive bad too? Any ideas? Ron, I hope you're out there :-)


    > Device Description
    > WDC WD800BEVE-11UYT0 (WD-WXH607044547)


    > ID Attribute Description Threshold Value Worst Data Status
    > 01 Raw Read Error Rate 51 200 200 7 OK: Value is normal
    > 03 Spin Up Time 21 189 188 1516 OK: Value is normal
    > 04 Start/Stop Count 0 100 100 103 OK: Always passing
    > 05 Reallocated Sector Count 140 200 200 0 OK: Value is normal
    > 07 Seek Error Rate 51 100 253 0 OK: Value is normal
    > 09 Power-On Time Count 0 100 100 373 OK: Always passing
    > 0A Spin Retry Count 51 100 100 0 OK: Value is normal
    > 0B Calibration Retry Count 51 100 253 0 OK: Value is normal
    > 0C Power Cycle Count 0 100 100 92 OK: Always passing
    > C0 Power-Off Retract Count 0 200 200 7 OK: Always passing
    > C1 Load/Unload Cycle Count 0 197 197 10827 OK: Always passing
    > C2 Temperature 0 97 90 50 OK: Always passing


    50C is rather hot. If it exceeds that it may get semoconductor malfunction
    (such as decreased read amplifier performance) due to obverheating. The
    "90" in the "worst" column indicates that it gets even hotter from time
    to time.

    > C4 Reallocation Event Count 0 200 200 0 OK: Always passing
    > C5 Current Pending Sector Count 0 200 200 0 OK: Always passing
    > C6 Off-Line Uncorrectable Sector Count 0 100 253 0 OK: Always passing
    > C7 Ultra ATA CRC Error Rate 0 200 200 0 OK: Always passing
    > C8 Write Error Rate 51 100 253 0 OK: Value is normal



    Ok, the nly suspicuous thing I find is the drive temperature.
    While this is a 5400 rpm drive, this drive has a rather high idle
    power consumption, using 2W.

    That may be all there is to it.

    Arno

  6. Re: Everything hesitating or stuttering; Fixed by replacing the drive, but now happening again

    On Aug 30, 6:03 pm, Arno Wagner wrote:
    > In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Nehmo wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > Not so long ago, I posted about a problem I had with the hard drive:
    > >http://snipurl.com/1q4s3, another thread athttp://snipurl.com/1q4sz
    > > Everything was hesitating or stuttering. I cloned the drive and
    > > replaced it, because the SMART results indicated it was going bad ("C5
    > > Current Pending Sector Count 0 100 100 19 OK: Always passing"). The
    > > drive replacement solved the problem until today.
    > > It seems I'm having the same problem - the same symptoms - with this
    > > new drive. I haven't done much to fix it yet. I'm defraging now to see
    > > if that helps. Below are the current SMART results.
    > > Is the new drive bad too? Any ideas? Ron, I hope you're out there :-)
    > > Device Description
    > > WDC WD800BEVE-11UYT0 (WD-WXH607044547)
    > > ID Attribute Description Threshold Value Worst Data Status
    > > 01 Raw Read Error Rate 51 200 200 7 OK: Value is normal
    > > 03 Spin Up Time 21 189 188 1516 OK: Value is normal
    > > 04 Start/Stop Count 0 100 100 103 OK: Always passing
    > > 05 Reallocated Sector Count 140 200 200 0 OK: Value is normal
    > > 07 Seek Error Rate 51 100 253 0 OK: Value is normal
    > > 09 Power-On Time Count 0 100 100 373 OK: Always passing
    > > 0A Spin Retry Count 51 100 100 0 OK: Value is normal
    > > 0B Calibration Retry Count 51 100 253 0 OK: Value is normal
    > > 0C Power Cycle Count 0 100 100 92 OK: Always passing
    > > C0 Power-Off Retract Count 0 200 200 7 OK: Always passing
    > > C1 Load/Unload Cycle Count 0 197 197 10827 OK: Always passing
    > > C2 Temperature 0 97 90 50 OK: Always passing

    >
    > 50C is rather hot. If it exceeds that it may get semoconductor malfunction
    > (such as decreased read amplifier performance) due to obverheating. The
    > "90" in the "worst" column indicates that it gets even hotter from time
    > to time.
    >
    > > C4 Reallocation Event Count 0 200 200 0 OK: Always passing
    > > C5 Current Pending Sector Count 0 200 200 0 OK: Always passing
    > > C6 Off-Line Uncorrectable Sector Count 0 100 253 0 OK: Always passing
    > > C7 Ultra ATA CRC Error Rate 0 200 200 0 OK: Always passing
    > > C8 Write Error Rate 51 100 253 0 OK: Value is normal

    >
    > Ok, the nly suspicuous thing I find is the drive temperature.
    > While this is a 5400 rpm drive, this drive has a rather high idle
    > power consumption, using 2W.
    >
    > That may be all there is to it.
    >
    > Arno



    What do you mean "all there is to it"? Why is the drive too hot, and
    what should I do abut it?
    --
    Nehmo


  7. Re: Everything hesitating or stuttering; Fixed by replacing the drive, but now happening again

    One way to possibly help rule out a heat problem is to put a cold
    towel (ie, cooled in a refrig or freezer) under the notebook and see
    if the problem persists


  8. Re: Everything hesitating or stuttering; Fixed by replacing the drive, but now happening again

    Nehmo wrote:

    > Not so long ago, I posted about a problem I had with the hard drive:
    > http://snipurl.com/1q4s3, another thread at http://snipurl.com/1q4sz
    > Everything was hesitating or stuttering. I cloned the drive and replaced
    > it, because the SMART results indicated it was going bad
    > ("C5 Current Pending Sector Count 0 100 100 19 OK: Always passing").
    > The drive replacement solved the problem until today.


    > It seems I'm having the same problem - the same symptoms - with this new drive.


    The SMART report is fine tho, so it looks like you had a
    bad drive and the symptoms are due to something else.

    > I haven't done much to fix it yet. I'm defraging now to
    > see if that helps. Below are the current SMART results.


    > Is the new drive bad too?


    Nope, that SMART report is fine.

    > Any ideas?


    See below.

    > Ron, I hope you're out there :-)


    In here actually |-)

    > Device Description
    > WDC WD800BEVE-11UYT0 (WD-WXH607044547)


    > ID Attribute Description Threshold Value Worst Data Status
    > 01 Raw Read Error Rate 51 200 200 7 OK: Value is normal
    > 03 Spin Up Time 21 189 188 1516 OK: Value is normal
    > 04 Start/Stop Count 0 100 100 103 OK: Always passing
    > 05 Reallocated Sector Count 140 200 200 0 OK: Value is normal
    > 07 Seek Error Rate 51 100 253 0 OK: Value is normal
    > 09 Power-On Time Count 0 100 100 373 OK: Always passing
    > 0A Spin Retry Count 51 100 100 0 OK: Value is normal
    > 0B Calibration Retry Count 51 100 253 0 OK: Value is normal
    > 0C Power Cycle Count 0 100 100 92 OK: Always passing
    > C0 Power-Off Retract Count 0 200 200 7 OK: Always passing
    > C1 Load/Unload Cycle Count 0 197 197 10827 OK: Always passing
    > C2 Temperature 0 97 90 50 OK: Always passing


    Thats rather high. Its showing 50C can that may well be the problem.

    Thats poor drive cooling.

    > C4 Reallocation Event Count 0 200 200 0 OK: Always passing
    > C5 Current Pending Sector Count 0 200 200 0 OK: Always passing
    > C6 Off-Line Uncorrectable Sector Count 0 100 253 0 OK: Always passing
    > C7 Ultra ATA CRC Error Rate 0 200 200 0 OK: Always passing
    > C8 Write Error Rate 51 100 253 0 OK: Value is normal




  9. Re: Everything hesitating or stuttering; Fixed by replacing the drive, but now happening again

    Nehmo wrote:
    > On Aug 30, 6:03 pm, Arno Wagner wrote:
    >> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Nehmo
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>> Not so long ago, I posted about a problem I had with the hard drive:
    >>> http://snipurl.com/1q4s3, another thread athttp://snipurl.com/1q4sz
    >>> Everything was hesitating or stuttering. I cloned the drive and
    >>> replaced it, because the SMART results indicated it was going bad
    >>> ("C5
    >>> Current Pending Sector Count 0 100 100 19 OK: Always passing"). The
    >>> drive replacement solved the problem until today.
    >>> It seems I'm having the same problem - the same symptoms - with this
    >>> new drive. I haven't done much to fix it yet. I'm defraging now to
    >>> see
    >>> if that helps. Below are the current SMART results.
    >>> Is the new drive bad too? Any ideas? Ron, I hope you're out there
    >>> :-)
    >>> Device Description
    >>> WDC WD800BEVE-11UYT0 (WD-WXH607044547)
    >>> ID Attribute Description Threshold Value Worst Data
    >>> Status 01 Raw Read Error Rate 51 200 200 7
    >>> OK: Value is normal 03 Spin Up Time 21 189 188 1516
    >>> OK: Value is normal 04 Start/Stop Count 0 100 100
    >>> 103 OK: Always passing 05 Reallocated Sector Count 140
    >>> 200 200 0 OK: Value is normal 07 Seek Error Rate 51
    >>> 100 253 0 OK: Value is normal 09 Power-On Time Count
    >>> 0 100 100 373 OK: Always passing 0A Spin Retry
    >>> Count 51 100 100 0 OK: Value is normal 0B
    >>> Calibration Retry Count 51 100 253 0 OK: Value
    >>> is normal 0C Power Cycle Count 0 100 100 92
    >>> OK: Always passing
    >>> C0 Power-Off Retract Count 0 200 200 7 OK:
    >>> Always passing
    >>> C1 Load/Unload Cycle Count 0 197 197 10827 OK:
    >>> Always passing
    >>> C2 Temperature 0 97 90 50 OK: Always
    >>> passing

    >>
    >> 50C is rather hot. If it exceeds that it may get semoconductor
    >> malfunction (such as decreased read amplifier performance) due to
    >> obverheating. The "90" in the "worst" column indicates that it gets
    >> even hotter from time to time.
    >>
    >>> C4 Reallocation Event Count 0 200 200 0
    >>> OK: Always passing
    >>> C5 Current Pending Sector Count 0 200 200 0
    >>> OK: Always passing
    >>> C6 Off-Line Uncorrectable Sector Count 0 100 253
    >>> 0 OK: Always passing C7 Ultra ATA CRC Error Rate 0
    >>> 200 200 0 OK: Always passing
    >>> C8 Write Error Rate 51 100 253 0 OK:
    >>> Value is normal

    >>
    >> Ok, the nly suspicuous thing I find is the drive temperature.
    >> While this is a 5400 rpm drive, this drive has a rather high idle
    >> power consumption, using 2W.
    >>
    >> That may be all there is to it.


    > What do you mean "all there is to it"?


    That the only problem is that the drive is running at too high a temperature.

    > Why is the drive too hot,


    Normally because its not getting enough cooling, enough airflow over the drive.

    > and what should I do abut it?


    Work out why its not getting enough airflow over the drive.

    See if the fan inside the laptop is clogged up with fur.

    Make sure you arent blocking the air intakes for the laptop, it isnt hard with some
    laptops, just putting it on a soft thing like a seat can do that with some laptops.

    What room temperature were you seeing when you got that 50C drive temp ?



  10. Re: Everything hesitating or stuttering; Fixed by replacing the drive, but now happening again

    In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Nehmo wrote:
    > On Aug 30, 6:03 pm, Arno Wagner wrote:
    >> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Nehmo wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> > Not so long ago, I posted about a problem I had with the hard drive:
    >> >http://snipurl.com/1q4s3, another thread athttp://snipurl.com/1q4sz
    >> > Everything was hesitating or stuttering. I cloned the drive and
    >> > replaced it, because the SMART results indicated it was going bad ("C5
    >> > Current Pending Sector Count 0 100 100 19 OK: Always passing"). The
    >> > drive replacement solved the problem until today.
    >> > It seems I'm having the same problem - the same symptoms - with this
    >> > new drive. I haven't done much to fix it yet. I'm defraging now to see
    >> > if that helps. Below are the current SMART results.
    >> > Is the new drive bad too? Any ideas? Ron, I hope you're out there :-)
    >> > Device Description
    >> > WDC WD800BEVE-11UYT0 (WD-WXH607044547)
    >> > ID Attribute Description Threshold Value Worst Data Status
    >> > 01 Raw Read Error Rate 51 200 200 7 OK: Value is normal
    >> > 03 Spin Up Time 21 189 188 1516 OK: Value is normal
    >> > 04 Start/Stop Count 0 100 100 103 OK: Always passing
    >> > 05 Reallocated Sector Count 140 200 200 0 OK: Value is normal
    >> > 07 Seek Error Rate 51 100 253 0 OK: Value is normal
    >> > 09 Power-On Time Count 0 100 100 373 OK: Always passing
    >> > 0A Spin Retry Count 51 100 100 0 OK: Value is normal
    >> > 0B Calibration Retry Count 51 100 253 0 OK: Value is normal
    >> > 0C Power Cycle Count 0 100 100 92 OK: Always passing
    >> > C0 Power-Off Retract Count 0 200 200 7 OK: Always passing
    >> > C1 Load/Unload Cycle Count 0 197 197 10827 OK: Always passing
    >> > C2 Temperature 0 97 90 50 OK: Always passing

    >>
    >> 50C is rather hot. If it exceeds that it may get semoconductor malfunction
    >> (such as decreased read amplifier performance) due to obverheating. The
    >> "90" in the "worst" column indicates that it gets even hotter from time
    >> to time.
    >>
    >> > C4 Reallocation Event Count 0 200 200 0 OK: Always passing
    >> > C5 Current Pending Sector Count 0 200 200 0 OK: Always passing
    >> > C6 Off-Line Uncorrectable Sector Count 0 100 253 0 OK: Always passing
    >> > C7 Ultra ATA CRC Error Rate 0 200 200 0 OK: Always passing
    >> > C8 Write Error Rate 51 100 253 0 OK: Value is normal

    >>
    >> Ok, the nly suspicuous thing I find is the drive temperature.
    >> While this is a 5400 rpm drive, this drive has a rather high idle
    >> power consumption, using 2W.
    >>
    >> That may be all there is to it.
    >>
    >> Arno



    > What do you mean "all there is to it"? Why is the drive too hot, and
    > what should I do abut it?


    Too much heat makes drives temporarily non-operational. In
    the short run this is typically reversible.

    What you probably should do about it, is get a drive that
    consumes significantly less power. Or a laptop that has better
    drive cooling. I don't know of any other options.

    It may be that the coopling in your laptop is only adequate for
    lower power 4200rpm drive model (not all of these are).

    Also, in the long run (months...few years), heat may well
    kill a drive.

    Arno

  11. Re: Everything hesitating or stuttering; Fixed by replacing the drive, but now happening again

    On Aug 31, 6:06 pm, "Rod Speed" wrote:
    > Nehmo wrote:
    > > On Aug 30, 6:03 pm, Arno Wagner wrote:
    > >> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storageNehmo
    > >> wrote:

    >
    > >>> Not so long ago, I posted about a problem I had with the hard drive:
    > >>>http://snipurl.com/1q4s3, another thread athttp://snipurl.com/1q4sz
    > >>> Everything was hesitating or stuttering. I cloned the drive and
    > >>> replaced it, because the SMART results indicated it was going bad
    > >>> ("C5
    > >>> Current Pending Sector Count 0 100 100 19 OK: Always passing"). The
    > >>> drive replacement solved the problem until today.
    > >>> It seems I'm having the same problem - the same symptoms - with this
    > >>> new drive. I haven't done much to fix it yet. I'm defraging now to
    > >>> see
    > >>> if that helps. Below are the current SMART results.
    > >>> Is the new drive bad too? Any ideas? Ron, I hope you're out there
    > >>> :-)
    > >>> Device Description
    > >>> WDC WD800BEVE-11UYT0 (WD-WXH607044547)
    > >>> ID Attribute Description Threshold Value Worst Data
    > >>> Status 01 Raw Read Error Rate 51 200 200 7
    > >>> OK: Value is normal 03 Spin Up Time 21 189 188 1516
    > >>> OK: Value is normal 04 Start/Stop Count 0 100 100
    > >>> 103 OK: Always passing 05 Reallocated Sector Count 140
    > >>> 200 200 0 OK: Value is normal 07 Seek Error Rate 51
    > >>> 100 253 0 OK: Value is normal 09 Power-On Time Count
    > >>> 0 100 100 373 OK: Always passing 0A Spin Retry
    > >>> Count 51 100 100 0 OK: Value is normal 0B
    > >>> Calibration Retry Count 51 100 253 0 OK: Value
    > >>> is normal 0C Power Cycle Count 0 100 100 92
    > >>> OK: Always passing
    > >>> C0 Power-Off Retract Count 0 200 200 7 OK:
    > >>> Always passing
    > >>> C1 Load/Unload Cycle Count 0 197 197 10827 OK:
    > >>> Always passing
    > >>> C2 Temperature 0 97 90 50 OK: Always
    > >>> passing

    >
    > >> 50C is rather hot. If it exceeds that it may get semoconductor
    > >> malfunction (such as decreased read amplifier performance) due to
    > >> obverheating. The "90" in the "worst" column indicates that it gets
    > >> even hotter from time to time.

    >
    > >>> C4 Reallocation Event Count 0 200 200 0
    > >>> OK: Always passing
    > >>> C5 Current Pending Sector Count 0 200 200 0
    > >>> OK: Always passing
    > >>> C6 Off-Line Uncorrectable Sector Count 0 100 253
    > >>> 0 OK: Always passing C7 Ultra ATA CRC Error Rate 0
    > >>> 200 200 0 OK: Always passing
    > >>> C8 Write Error Rate 51 100 253 0 OK:
    > >>> Value is normal

    >
    > >> Ok, the nly suspicuous thing I find is the drive temperature.
    > >> While this is a 5400 rpm drive, this drive has a rather high idle
    > >> power consumption, using 2W.

    >
    > >> That may be all there is to it.

    > > What do you mean "all there is to it"?

    >
    > That the only problem is that the drive is running at too high a temperature.
    >
    > > Why is the drive too hot,

    >
    > Normally because its not getting enough cooling, enough airflow over the drive.
    >
    > > and what should I do abut it?

    >
    > Work out why its not getting enough airflow over the drive.
    >
    > See if the fan inside the laptop is clogged up with fur.
    >
    > Make sure you arent blocking the air intakes for the laptop, it isnt hard with some
    > laptops, just putting it on a soft thing like a seat can do that with some laptops.
    >
    > What room temperature were you seeing when you got that 50C drive temp ?



    The room temperature is normal, around 70 degrees F.
    The drive specs seem to allow an operating temperature of 60 degrees
    C, http://www.wdc.com/en/products/produ...02&language=en
    I'm not blocking any vents.
    The problem exists even when I start the computer. The Windows start-
    sound is jerky. The temp when I last started was 46 degrees C.
    I already opened the laptop looking for fur. I didn't find much. I'll
    open it again, but the drive compartment is different from the area
    cooled by the CPU fan.
    About in the middle of this page http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=2580
    , you can see a pic of the CPU fan. The article notes that there is no
    direct cooling for the HD. There is a PCMCIA slot above the HD, and
    the article notes taking out the dummy card lowers the drive temp a
    bit. I just did this, but I believe something is permanently damaged.
    The last time this problem presented itself, when I wrote the previous
    threads about a month ago, I solved the problem by replacing the
    drive. It must be the same problem, but I don't understand what's
    going on. Did the old drive, the one before the replacement, die from
    being too hot? And now is the same thing happening to the new drive?
    Should I replace this drive too?
    --
    Nehmo


  12. Re: Everything hesitating or stuttering; Fixed by replacing the drive, but now happening again

    On Sep 1, 2:23 am, Arno Wagner wrote:
    > In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storageNehmo wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > On Aug 30, 6:03 pm, Arno Wagner wrote:
    > >> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storageNehmo wrote:

    >
    > >> > Not so long ago, I posted about a problem I had with the hard drive:
    > >> >http://snipurl.com/1q4s3, another thread athttp://snipurl.com/1q4sz
    > >> > Everything was hesitating or stuttering. I cloned the drive and
    > >> > replaced it, because the SMART results indicated it was going bad ("C5
    > >> > Current Pending Sector Count 0 100 100 19 OK: Always passing"). The
    > >> > drive replacement solved the problem until today.
    > >> > It seems I'm having the same problem - the same symptoms - with this
    > >> > new drive. I haven't done much to fix it yet. I'm defraging now to see
    > >> > if that helps. Below are the current SMART results.
    > >> > Is the new drive bad too? Any ideas? Ron, I hope you're out there :-)
    > >> > Device Description
    > >> > WDC WD800BEVE-11UYT0 (WD-WXH607044547)
    > >> > ID Attribute Description Threshold Value Worst Data Status
    > >> > 01 Raw Read Error Rate 51 200 200 7 OK: Valueis normal
    > >> > 03 Spin Up Time 21 189 188 1516 OK: Value is normal
    > >> > 04 Start/Stop Count 0 100 100 103 OK: Always passing
    > >> > 05 Reallocated Sector Count 140 200 200 0 OK: Value is normal
    > >> > 07 Seek Error Rate 51 100 253 0 OK: Value is normal
    > >> > 09 Power-On Time Count 0 100 100 373 OK: Always passing
    > >> > 0A Spin Retry Count 51 100 100 0 OK: Valueis normal
    > >> > 0B Calibration Retry Count 51 100 253 0 OK: Valueis normal
    > >> > 0C Power Cycle Count 0 100 100 92 OK: Always passing
    > >> > C0 Power-Off Retract Count 0 200 200 7 OK: Always passing
    > >> > C1 Load/Unload Cycle Count 0 197 197 10827 OK: Always passing
    > >> > C2 Temperature 0 97 90 50 OK: Always passing

    >
    > >> 50C is rather hot. If it exceeds that it may get semoconductor malfunction
    > >> (such as decreased read amplifier performance) due to obverheating. The
    > >> "90" in the "worst" column indicates that it gets even hotter from time
    > >> to time.

    >
    > >> > C4 Reallocation Event Count 0 200 200 0 OK: Always passing
    > >> > C5 Current Pending Sector Count 0 200 200 0 OK: Always passing
    > >> > C6 Off-Line Uncorrectable Sector Count 0 100 253 0OK: Always passing
    > >> > C7 Ultra ATA CRC Error Rate 0 200 200 0 OK: Always passing
    > >> > C8 Write Error Rate 51 100 253 0 OK: Valueis normal

    >
    > >> Ok, the nly suspicuous thing I find is the drive temperature.
    > >> While this is a 5400 rpm drive, this drive has a rather high idle
    > >> power consumption, using 2W.

    >
    > >> That may be all there is to it.

    >
    > >> Arno

    > > What do you mean "all there is to it"? Why is the drive too hot, and
    > > what should I do abut it?

    >
    > Too much heat makes drives temporarily non-operational. In
    > the short run this is typically reversible.
    >
    > What you probably should do about it, is get a drive that
    > consumes significantly less power. Or a laptop that has better
    > drive cooling. I don't know of any other options.
    >
    > It may be that the coopling in your laptop is only adequate for
    > lower power 4200rpm drive model (not all of these are).
    >
    > Also, in the long run (months...few years), heat may well
    > kill a drive.
    >
    > Arno


    The new drive, the one currently in this laptop, has the faster spin
    rate and does have a higher idle power consumption
    The original HD was a Toshiba with these specs:
    Nominal Power Requirements:
    Logic +5V(5%)
    Start 4.7watts
    Seeking 2.6watts
    Reading/Writing 2.3watts
    Idle 0.9watts
    Standby 0.25watts
    Sleep 0.1watts

    The WD site is down now, but the idle was 2. watts. It has the faster
    spin.

    Since replacing the drive solved the problem the first time, I assume
    it will solve it this time as well. When the computer hesitates or
    interrupts it does so momentarily, and the drive light blinks on.

    So you're saying I should only use a 4200 rpm HD?

    --
    Nehmo


  13. Re: Everything hesitating or stuttering; Fixed by replacing the drive, but now happening again

    On Aug 31, 6:02 pm, "Rod Speed" wrote:
    > Nehmo wrote:
    > > Not so long ago, I posted about a problem I had with the hard drive:
    > >http://snipurl.com/1q4s3, another thread athttp://snipurl.com/1q4sz
    > > Everything was hesitating or stuttering. I cloned the drive and replaced
    > > it, because the SMART results indicated it was going bad
    > > ("C5 Current Pending Sector Count 0 100 100 19 OK: Always passing").
    > > The drive replacement solved the problem until today.
    > > It seems I'm having the same problem - the same symptoms - with this new drive.

    >
    > The SMART report is fine tho, so it looks like you had a
    > bad drive and the symptoms are due to something else.


    But previously when I changed the drive the symptoms disappeared -
    right away, on the first boot.
    The new drive has been in there for a month. Now the symptoms have
    reappeared.
    If the symptoms disappeared when the drive disappeared, it tends to
    mean the drive caused the symptoms.

    >
    > > I haven't done much to fix it yet. I'm defraging now to
    > > see if that helps. Below are the current SMART results.
    > > Is the new drive bad too?

    >
    > Nope, that SMART report is fine.
    >
    > > Any ideas?

    >
    > See below.
    >
    > > Ron, I hope you're out there :-)

    >
    > In here actually |-)
    >
    > > Device Description
    > > WDC WD800BEVE-11UYT0 (WD-WXH607044547)
    > > ID Attribute Description Threshold Value Worst Data Status
    > > 01 Raw Read Error Rate 51 200 200 7 OK: Value is normal
    > > 03 Spin Up Time 21 189 188 1516 OK: Value is normal
    > > 04 Start/Stop Count 0 100 100 103 OK: Always passing
    > > 05 Reallocated Sector Count 140 200 200 0 OK: Value is normal
    > > 07 Seek Error Rate 51 100 253 0 OK: Value is normal
    > > 09 Power-On Time Count 0 100 100 373 OK: Always passing
    > > 0A Spin Retry Count 51 100 100 0 OK: Value is normal
    > > 0B Calibration Retry Count 51 100 253 0 OK: Value is normal
    > > 0C Power Cycle Count 0 100 100 92 OK: Always passing
    > > C0 Power-Off Retract Count 0 200 200 7 OK: Always passing
    > > C1 Load/Unload Cycle Count 0 197 197 10827 OK: Always passing
    > > C2 Temperature 0 97 90 50 OK: Always passing

    >
    > Thats rather high. Its showing 50C can that may well be the problem.
    >
    > Thats poor drive cooling.


    You're saying the drive is OK, yet is has poor cooling, and the
    symptoms were somehow caused by something else?

    As I said earlier, there is no direct cooling of the drive. So, yes,
    the cooling must be poor. But I would assume it should be adequate
    considering the large number of these laptops in use.

    I don't see anything else to do except to replace the drive again. As
    I said, I opened the CPU part, where there is a fan, and I didn't find
    much fur. There's really nothing to look at in the drive compartment.
    The only thing in there is the drive.

    > > C4 Reallocation Event Count 0 200 200 0 OK: Always passing
    > > C5 Current Pending Sector Count 0 200 200 0 OK: Always passing
    > > C6 Off-Line Uncorrectable Sector Count 0 100 253 0 OK: Always passing
    > > C7 Ultra ATA CRC Error Rate 0 200 200 0 OK: Always passing
    > > C8 Write Error Rate 51 100 253 0 OK: Value is normal


    --
    Nehmo


  14. Re: Everything hesitating or stuttering; Fixed by replacing the drive, but now happening again

    Nehmo wrote:
    > On Aug 31, 6:06 pm, "Rod Speed" wrote:
    >> Nehmo wrote:
    >>> On Aug 30, 6:03 pm, Arno Wagner wrote:
    >>>> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storageNehmo
    >>>> wrote:

    >>
    >>>>> Not so long ago, I posted about a problem I had with the hard
    >>>>> drive: http://snipurl.com/1q4s3, another thread
    >>>>> athttp://snipurl.com/1q4sz Everything was hesitating or
    >>>>> stuttering. I cloned the drive and replaced it, because the SMART
    >>>>> results indicated it was going bad ("C5
    >>>>> Current Pending Sector Count 0 100 100 19 OK: Always passing").
    >>>>> The drive replacement solved the problem until today.
    >>>>> It seems I'm having the same problem - the same symptoms - with
    >>>>> this new drive. I haven't done much to fix it yet. I'm defraging
    >>>>> now to see
    >>>>> if that helps. Below are the current SMART results.
    >>>>> Is the new drive bad too? Any ideas? Ron, I hope you're out there
    >>>>> :-)
    >>>>> Device Description
    >>>>> WDC WD800BEVE-11UYT0 (WD-WXH607044547)
    >>>>> ID Attribute Description Threshold Value Worst Data
    >>>>> Status 01 Raw Read Error Rate 51 200 200 7
    >>>>> OK: Value is normal 03 Spin Up Time 21 189 188
    >>>>> 1516 OK: Value is normal 04 Start/Stop Count 0 100
    >>>>> 100 103 OK: Always passing 05 Reallocated Sector Count
    >>>>> 140 200 200 0 OK: Value is normal 07 Seek Error
    >>>>> Rate 51 100 253 0 OK: Value is normal 09 Power-On
    >>>>> Time Count 0 100 100 373 OK: Always passing 0A
    >>>>> Spin Retry Count 51 100 100 0 OK: Value
    >>>>> is normal 0B Calibration Retry Count 51 100 253 0
    >>>>> OK: Value is normal 0C Power Cycle Count 0 100
    >>>>> 100 92
    >>>>> OK: Always passing
    >>>>> C0 Power-Off Retract Count 0 200 200 7 OK:
    >>>>> Always passing
    >>>>> C1 Load/Unload Cycle Count 0 197 197 10827 OK:
    >>>>> Always passing
    >>>>> C2 Temperature 0 97 90 50 OK: Always
    >>>>> passing

    >>
    >>>> 50C is rather hot. If it exceeds that it may get semoconductor
    >>>> malfunction (such as decreased read amplifier performance) due to
    >>>> obverheating. The "90" in the "worst" column indicates that it gets
    >>>> even hotter from time to time.

    >>
    >>>>> C4 Reallocation Event Count 0 200 200 0
    >>>>> OK: Always passing
    >>>>> C5 Current Pending Sector Count 0 200 200 0
    >>>>> OK: Always passing
    >>>>> C6 Off-Line Uncorrectable Sector Count 0 100 253
    >>>>> 0 OK: Always passing C7 Ultra ATA CRC Error Rate 0
    >>>>> 200 200 0 OK: Always passing
    >>>>> C8 Write Error Rate 51 100 253 0 OK:
    >>>>> Value is normal

    >>
    >>>> Ok, the nly suspicuous thing I find is the drive temperature.
    >>>> While this is a 5400 rpm drive, this drive has a rather high idle
    >>>> power consumption, using 2W.

    >>
    >>>> That may be all there is to it.
    >>> What do you mean "all there is to it"?

    >>
    >> That the only problem is that the drive is running at too high a
    >> temperature.
    >>
    >>> Why is the drive too hot,

    >>
    >> Normally because its not getting enough cooling, enough airflow over
    >> the drive.
    >>
    >>> and what should I do abut it?

    >>
    >> Work out why its not getting enough airflow over the drive.
    >>
    >> See if the fan inside the laptop is clogged up with fur.
    >>
    >> Make sure you arent blocking the air intakes for the laptop, it isnt
    >> hard with some laptops, just putting it on a soft thing like a seat
    >> can do that with some laptops.
    >>
    >> What room temperature were you seeing when you got that 50C drive
    >> temp ?


    > The room temperature is normal, around 70 degrees F.
    > The drive specs seem to allow an operating temperature of 60 degrees
    > C, http://www.wdc.com/en/products/produ...02&language=en
    > I'm not blocking any vents.
    > The problem exists even when I start the computer. The Windows start-
    > sound is jerky. The temp when I last started was 46 degrees C.
    > I already opened the laptop looking for fur. I didn't find much. I'll
    > open it again, but the drive compartment is different from the area
    > cooled by the CPU fan.
    > About in the middle of this page
    > http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=2580 , you can see a
    > pic of the CPU fan. The article notes that there is no
    > direct cooling for the HD. There is a PCMCIA slot above the HD, and
    > the article notes taking out the dummy card lowers the drive temp a bit.


    OK, it looks like its badly designed drive cooling wise.

    > I just did this, but I believe something is permanently damaged.
    > The last time this problem presented itself, when I wrote the previous
    > threads about a month ago, I solved the problem by replacing the
    > drive. It must be the same problem, but I don't understand what's
    > going on. Did the old drive, the one before the replacement, die from
    > being too hot? And now is the same thing happening to the new drive?


    There is no evidence that the current drive is dying.

    It looks like the symptom doesnt have anything to do with the drive.

    > Should I replace this drive too?


    I wouldnt if it was mine, because the SMART report is fine.



  15. Re: Everything hesitating or stuttering; Fixed by replacing the drive, but now happening again

    Nehmo wrote:
    > On Aug 31, 6:02 pm, "Rod Speed" wrote:
    >> Nehmo wrote:
    >>> Not so long ago, I posted about a problem I had with the hard drive:
    >>> http://snipurl.com/1q4s3, another thread athttp://snipurl.com/1q4sz
    >>> Everything was hesitating or stuttering. I cloned the drive and
    >>> replaced
    >>> it, because the SMART results indicated it was going bad
    >>> ("C5 Current Pending Sector Count 0 100 100 19 OK: Always passing").
    >>> The drive replacement solved the problem until today.
    >>> It seems I'm having the same problem - the same symptoms - with
    >>> this new drive.

    >>
    >> The SMART report is fine tho, so it looks like you had a
    >> bad drive and the symptoms are due to something else.

    >
    > But previously when I changed the drive the symptoms disappeared -
    > right away, on the first boot.
    > The new drive has been in there for a month. Now the symptoms have
    > reappeared.
    > If the symptoms disappeared when the drive disappeared, it tends to
    > mean the drive caused the symptoms.


    Yes, but the contraindication is that the SMART data is fine
    now and wasnt before the previous drive replacement.

    The symptoms you are seeing may be due to something outside
    the drive and the act of physically replacing the drive may have
    disturbed something physically, what was producing the symptom,
    and which has now returned by itself since.

    >>> I haven't done much to fix it yet. I'm defraging now to
    >>> see if that helps. Below are the current SMART results.
    >>> Is the new drive bad too?

    >>
    >> Nope, that SMART report is fine.
    >>
    >>> Any ideas?

    >>
    >> See below.
    >>
    >>> Ron, I hope you're out there :-)

    >>
    >> In here actually |-)
    >>
    >>> Device Description
    >>> WDC WD800BEVE-11UYT0 (WD-WXH607044547)
    >>> ID Attribute Description Threshold Value Worst Data Status
    >>> 01 Raw Read Error Rate 51 200 200 7 OK: Value is normal
    >>> 03 Spin Up Time 21 189 188 1516 OK: Value is normal
    >>> 04 Start/Stop Count 0 100 100 103 OK: Always passing
    >>> 05 Reallocated Sector Count 140 200 200 0 OK: Value is normal
    >>> 07 Seek Error Rate 51 100 253 0 OK: Value is normal
    >>> 09 Power-On Time Count 0 100 100 373 OK: Always passing
    >>> 0A Spin Retry Count 51 100 100 0 OK: Value is normal
    >>> 0B Calibration Retry Count 51 100 253 0 OK: Value is normal
    >>> 0C Power Cycle Count 0 100 100 92 OK: Always passing
    >>> C0 Power-Off Retract Count 0 200 200 7 OK: Always passing
    >>> C1 Load/Unload Cycle Count 0 197 197 10827 OK: Always passing
    >>> C2 Temperature 0 97 90 50 OK: Always passing

    >>
    >> Thats rather high. Its showing 50C can that may well be the problem.
    >>
    >> Thats poor drive cooling.


    > You're saying the drive is OK,


    Yes.

    > yet is has poor cooling,


    Yes.

    > and the symptoms were somehow caused by something else?


    Yes, thats what it looks like.

    > As I said earlier, there is no direct cooling of the drive. So, yes,
    > the cooling must be poor. But I would assume it should be
    > adequate considering the large number of these laptops in use.


    Thats not always the case. Some of the Dells had similarly poor drive
    cooling, and the drive temps were right on the edge of what the hard
    drive manufacturer allows, literally. Those laptops did have a much
    higher hard drive failure rate than usual and Dell did improve the drive
    cooling in later designs and the failure rate of the hard drives dropped
    to normal levels when they did.

    > I don't see anything else to do except to replace the drive again.


    I'd try physically removing it and replacing it, the same drive, to see if
    its the mechanical disturbance that is causing the symptoms to go away.

    There may be a dry joint or cracked trace on the motherboard etc.

    > As I said, I opened the CPU part, where there is a fan, and I didn't find much fur.


    Yeah, it seems clear that its just poorly designed and the drive doesnt get enough cooling.

    > There's really nothing to look at in the drive compartment.
    > The only thing in there is the drive.


    Sure. If the airflow is poor in there, you wont get a fur buildup there.

    >>> C4 Reallocation Event Count 0 200 200 0 OK: Always passing
    >>> C5 Current Pending Sector Count 0 200 200 0 OK: Always passing
    >>> C6 Off-Line Uncorrectable Sector Count 0 100 253 0 OK: Always
    >>> passing
    >>> C7 Ultra ATA CRC Error Rate 0 200 200 0 OK: Always passing
    >>> C8 Write Error Rate 51 100 253 0 OK: Value is normal




  16. Re: Everything hesitating or stuttering; Fixed by replacing the drive, but now happening again

    On Sep 3, 2:41 am, "Rod Speed" wrote:
    > Nehmo wrote:
    > > On Aug 31, 6:02 pm, "Rod Speed" wrote:
    > >>Nehmo wrote:
    > >>> Not so long ago, I posted about a problem I had with the hard drive:
    > >>>http://snipurl.com/1q4s3, another thread athttp://snipurl.com/1q4sz
    > >>> Everything was hesitating or stuttering. I cloned the drive and
    > >>> replaced
    > >>> it, because the SMART results indicated it was going bad
    > >>> ("C5 Current Pending Sector Count 0 100 100 19 OK: Always passing").
    > >>> The drive replacement solved the problem until today.
    > >>> It seems I'm having the same problem - the same symptoms - with
    > >>> this new drive.

    >
    > >> The SMART report is fine tho, so it looks like you had a
    > >> bad drive and the symptoms are due to something else.

    >
    > > But previously when I changed the drive the symptoms disappeared -
    > > right away, on the first boot.
    > > The new drive has been in there for a month. Now the symptoms have
    > > reappeared.
    > > If the symptoms disappeared when the drive disappeared, it tends to
    > > mean the drive caused the symptoms.

    >
    > Yes, but the contraindication is that the SMART data is fine
    > now and wasnt before the previous drive replacement.
    >
    > The symptoms you are seeing may be due to something outside
    > the drive and the act of physically replacing the drive may have
    > disturbed something physically, what was producing the symptom,
    > and which has now returned by itself since.


    The drive in the laptop is still covered by warranty. I bought it form
    Micro Center in Overland Park, Kansas, which has a 30 day return-
    merchandise period (in addition to the term of any manufacture
    warranty). But since I have to clone it to a new drive, I have to buy
    the new one first, then clone, then wipe, and then return for a new
    drive.

    But should I not get one with a 5400 RPM? Should I get one with a low
    idle power consumption?

    I'll try removing the drive and then just putting it back in place.
    Maybe the connector is defective. Or maybe something else is wrong, as
    you suggested.

    It's worth mentioning that the problem began both times when I was
    watching a video. This is a operation that taxes the drive.

    Also, the drive indicator light flicks on in-step with the stuttering
    as it happens.


    > >>> I haven't done much to fix it yet. I'm defraging now to
    > >>> see if that helps. Below are the current SMART results.
    > >>> Is the new drive bad too?

    >
    > >> Nope, that SMART report is fine.

    >
    > >>> Any ideas?

    >
    > >> See below.

    >
    > >>> Ron, I hope you're out there :-)

    >
    > >> In here actually |-)

    >
    > >>> Device Description
    > >>> WDC WD800BEVE-11UYT0 (WD-WXH607044547)
    > >>> ID Attribute Description Threshold Value Worst Data Status
    > >>> 01 Raw Read Error Rate 51 200 200 7 OK: Value is normal
    > >>> 03 Spin Up Time 21 189 188 1516 OK: Value is normal
    > >>> 04 Start/Stop Count 0 100 100 103 OK: Always passing
    > >>> 05 Reallocated Sector Count 140 200 200 0 OK: Value is normal
    > >>> 07 Seek Error Rate 51 100 253 0 OK: Value is normal
    > >>> 09 Power-On Time Count 0 100 100 373 OK: Always passing
    > >>> 0A Spin Retry Count 51 100 100 0 OK: Value is normal
    > >>> 0B Calibration Retry Count 51 100 253 0 OK: Value is normal
    > >>> 0C Power Cycle Count 0 100 100 92 OK: Always passing
    > >>> C0 Power-Off Retract Count 0 200 200 7 OK: Always passing
    > >>> C1 Load/Unload Cycle Count 0 197 197 10827 OK: Always passing
    > >>> C2 Temperature 0 97 90 50 OK: Always passing

    >
    > >> Thats rather high. Its showing 50C can that may well be the problem.

    >
    > >> Thats poor drive cooling.

    > > You're saying the drive is OK,

    >
    > Yes.
    >
    > > yet is has poor cooling,

    >
    > Yes.


    Actually, last time, you didn't like the Current Pending Sector Count,
    but the SMART comment on that said passing. This time there's no
    problem with the Current Pending Sector Count. I'm wondering if this
    problem is a problem that doesn't show up in the SMART report.

    > > and the symptoms were somehow caused by something else?

    >
    > Yes, thats what it looks like.


    If the problem is caused by something other than the drive, I still
    need to figure out what it is, unless it cures itself as it did before
    when I replaced the drive.

    > > As I said earlier, there is no direct cooling of the drive. So, yes,
    > > the cooling must be poor. But I would assume it should be
    > > adequate considering the large number of these laptops in use.

    >
    > Thats not always the case. Some of the Dells had similarly poor drive
    > cooling, and the drive temps were right on the edge of what the hard
    > drive manufacturer allows, literally. Those laptops did have a much
    > higher hard drive failure rate than usual and Dell did improve the drive
    > cooling in later designs and the failure rate of the hard drives dropped
    > to normal levels when they did.
    >
    > > I don't see anything else to do except to replace the drive again.

    >
    > I'd try physically removing it and replacing it, the same drive, to see if
    > its the mechanical disturbance that is causing the symptoms to go away.
    >
    > There may be a dry joint or cracked trace on the motherboard etc.


    I'll try removing-and-reinstalling the existing drive today. Assuming
    the operation doesn't cure the problem, I'll replace the drive
    tomorrow.
    >
    > > As I said, I opened the CPU part, where there is a fan, and I didn't find much fur.

    >
    > Yeah, it seems clear that its just poorly designed and the drive doesnt get enough cooling.
    >
    > > There's really nothing to look at in the drive compartment.
    > > The only thing in there is the drive.

    >
    > Sure. If the airflow is poor in there, you wont get a fur buildup there.
    >
    > >>> C4 Reallocation Event Count 0 200 200 0 OK: Always passing
    > >>> C5 Current Pending Sector Count 0 200 200 0 OK: Always passing
    > >>> C6 Off-Line Uncorrectable Sector Count 0 100 253 0 OK: Always
    > >>> passing
    > >>> C7 Ultra ATA CRC Error Rate 0 200 200 0 OK: Always passing
    > >>> C8 Write Error Rate 51 100 253 0 OK: Value is normal


    Thanks again.
    --
    Nehmo



  17. Re: Everything hesitating or stuttering; Fixed by replacing the drive, but now happening again

    In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Nehmo wrote:
    > On Sep 1, 2:23 am, Arno Wagner wrote:
    >> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storageNehmo wrote:

    [...]
    > The new drive, the one currently in this laptop, has the faster spin
    > rate and does have a higher idle power consumption
    > The original HD was a Toshiba with these specs:
    > Nominal Power Requirements:
    > Logic +5V(?5%)
    > Start 4.7watts
    > Seeking 2.6watts
    > Reading/Writing 2.3watts
    > Idle 0.9watts
    > Standby 0.25watts
    > Sleep 0.1watts


    > The WD site is down now, but the idle was 2. watts. It has the faster
    > spin.


    > Since replacing the drive solved the problem the first time, I assume
    > it will solve it this time as well. When the computer hesitates or
    > interrupts it does so momentarily, and the drive light blinks on.


    > So you're saying I should only use a 4200 rpm HD?


    You should use one that matches or is below the original disk
    in active and idle power consumption. There may be a 5400rmp
    diskin the market or thater may not be. Also a 4200rpm disk
    may consume too much power. You will need to look into datasheets.
    If they do not give the information for a disk. it likely has a
    pretty bad rating there.

    Arno

  18. Re: Everything hesitating or stuttering; Fixed by replacing the drive, but now happening again


    "Nehmo" wrote in message
    news:1188834768.205983.308110@o80g2000hse.googlegr oups.com...
    > On Sep 3, 2:41 am, "Rod Speed" wrote:
    >> Nehmo wrote:
    >> > On Aug 31, 6:02 pm, "Rod Speed" wrote:
    >> >>Nehmo wrote:
    >> >>> Not so long ago, I posted about a problem I had with the hard drive:
    >> >>>http://snipurl.com/1q4s3, another thread athttp://snipurl.com/1q4sz
    >> >>> Everything was hesitating or stuttering. I cloned the drive and
    >> >>> replaced
    >> >>> it, because the SMART results indicated it was going bad
    >> >>> ("C5 Current Pending Sector Count 0 100 100 19 OK: Always passing").
    >> >>> The drive replacement solved the problem until today.
    >> >>> It seems I'm having the same problem - the same symptoms - with
    >> >>> this new drive.

    >>
    >> >> The SMART report is fine tho, so it looks like you had a
    >> >> bad drive and the symptoms are due to something else.

    >>
    >> > But previously when I changed the drive the symptoms disappeared -
    >> > right away, on the first boot.
    >> > The new drive has been in there for a month. Now the symptoms have
    >> > reappeared.
    >> > If the symptoms disappeared when the drive disappeared, it tends to
    >> > mean the drive caused the symptoms.

    >>
    >> Yes, but the contraindication is that the SMART data is fine
    >> now and wasnt before the previous drive replacement.
    >>
    >> The symptoms you are seeing may be due to something outside
    >> the drive and the act of physically replacing the drive may have
    >> disturbed something physically, what was producing the symptom,
    >> and which has now returned by itself since.

    >
    > The drive in the laptop is still covered by warranty. I bought it form
    > Micro Center in Overland Park, Kansas, which has a 30 day return-
    > merchandise period (in addition to the term of any manufacture
    > warranty). But since I have to clone it to a new drive, I have to buy
    > the new one first, then clone, then wipe, and then return for a new
    > drive.
    >
    > But should I not get one with a 5400 RPM? Should I get one with a low
    > idle power consumption?
    >
    > I'll try removing the drive and then just putting it back in place.
    > Maybe the connector is defective. Or maybe something else is wrong, as
    > you suggested.
    >
    > It's worth mentioning that the problem began both times when I was
    > watching a video. This is a operation that taxes the drive.
    >
    > Also, the drive indicator light flicks on in-step with the stuttering
    > as it happens.
    >
    >
    >> >>> I haven't done much to fix it yet. I'm defraging now to
    >> >>> see if that helps. Below are the current SMART results.
    >> >>> Is the new drive bad too?

    >>
    >> >> Nope, that SMART report is fine.

    >>
    >> >>> Any ideas?

    >>
    >> >> See below.

    >>
    >> >>> Ron, I hope you're out there :-)

    >>
    >> >> In here actually |-)

    >>
    >> >>> Device Description
    >> >>> WDC WD800BEVE-11UYT0 (WD-WXH607044547)
    >> >>> ID Attribute Description Threshold Value Worst Data Status
    >> >>> 01 Raw Read Error Rate 51 200 200 7 OK: Value is normal
    >> >>> 03 Spin Up Time 21 189 188 1516 OK: Value is normal
    >> >>> 04 Start/Stop Count 0 100 100 103 OK: Always passing
    >> >>> 05 Reallocated Sector Count 140 200 200 0 OK: Value is normal
    >> >>> 07 Seek Error Rate 51 100 253 0 OK: Value is normal
    >> >>> 09 Power-On Time Count 0 100 100 373 OK: Always passing
    >> >>> 0A Spin Retry Count 51 100 100 0 OK: Value is normal
    >> >>> 0B Calibration Retry Count 51 100 253 0 OK: Value is normal
    >> >>> 0C Power Cycle Count 0 100 100 92 OK: Always passing
    >> >>> C0 Power-Off Retract Count 0 200 200 7 OK: Always passing
    >> >>> C1 Load/Unload Cycle Count 0 197 197 10827 OK: Always passing
    >> >>> C2 Temperature 0 97 90 50 OK: Always passing

    >>
    >> >> Thats rather high. Its showing 50C can that may well be the problem.

    >>
    >> >> Thats poor drive cooling.
    >> > You're saying the drive is OK,

    >>
    >> Yes.
    >>
    >> > yet is has poor cooling,

    >>
    >> Yes.

    >
    > Actually, last time, you didn't like the Current Pending Sector Count,
    > but the SMART comment on that said passing. This time there's no
    > problem with the Current Pending Sector Count. I'm wondering if this
    > problem is a problem that doesn't show up in the SMART report.
    >
    >> > and the symptoms were somehow caused by something else?

    >>
    >> Yes, thats what it looks like.

    >
    > If the problem is caused by something other than the drive, I still
    > need to figure out what it is, unless it cures itself as it did before
    > when I replaced the drive.
    >
    >> > As I said earlier, there is no direct cooling of the drive. So, yes,
    >> > the cooling must be poor. But I would assume it should be
    >> > adequate considering the large number of these laptops in use.

    >>
    >> Thats not always the case. Some of the Dells had similarly poor drive
    >> cooling, and the drive temps were right on the edge of what the hard
    >> drive manufacturer allows, literally. Those laptops did have a much
    >> higher hard drive failure rate than usual and Dell did improve the drive
    >> cooling in later designs and the failure rate of the hard drives dropped
    >> to normal levels when they did.
    >>
    >> > I don't see anything else to do except to replace the drive again.

    >>
    >> I'd try physically removing it and replacing it, the same drive, to see if
    >> its the mechanical disturbance that is causing the symptoms to go away.
    >>
    >> There may be a dry joint or cracked trace on the motherboard etc.

    >
    > I'll try removing-and-reinstalling the existing drive today. Assuming
    > the operation doesn't cure the problem, I'll replace the drive
    > tomorrow.
    >>
    >> > As I said, I opened the CPU part, where there is a fan, and I didn't find much fur.

    >>
    >> Yeah, it seems clear that its just poorly designed and the drive doesnt get enough
    >> cooling.
    >>
    >> > There's really nothing to look at in the drive compartment.
    >> > The only thing in there is the drive.

    >>
    >> Sure. If the airflow is poor in there, you wont get a fur buildup there.
    >>
    >> >>> C4 Reallocation Event Count 0 200 200 0 OK: Always passing
    >> >>> C5 Current Pending Sector Count 0 200 200 0 OK: Always passing
    >> >>> C6 Off-Line Uncorrectable Sector Count 0 100 253 0 OK: Always
    >> >>> passing
    >> >>> C7 Ultra ATA CRC Error Rate 0 200 200 0 OK: Always passing
    >> >>> C8 Write Error Rate 51 100 253 0 OK: Value is normal

    >
    > Thanks again.
    > --
    > Nehmo
    >
    >

    How old is the laptop? Does it draw fresh air through the keyboard? There is a filter in
    some laptops under the KB that may be blocked with lint and all kinds of nasty stuff.



  19. Re: Everything hesitating or stuttering; Fixed by replacing the drive, but now happening again

    On Sep 3, 11:59 am, "JAD"
    wrote:
    > How old is the laptop?


    It's a little over a year old.

    > Does it draw fresh air through the keyboard?


    No. I don't see any indication that air is drawn through the keyboard.
    There is nothing that looks like a filter. This
    http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=2580 shows the
    laptop.
    Right now the HD temp is 49 degrees C. I'm using SpeedFan
    http://www.almico.com/speedfan.php to get the temperature readings.

    > There is a filter in
    > some laptops under the KB that may be blocked with lint and all kinds of nasty stuff.


    --
    Nehmo



  20. Re: Everything hesitating or stuttering; Fixed by replacing the drive, but now happening again

    Nehmo wrote:
    > On Sep 3, 2:41 am, "Rod Speed" wrote:
    >> Nehmo wrote:
    >>> On Aug 31, 6:02 pm, "Rod Speed" wrote:
    >>>> Nehmo wrote:
    >>>>> Not so long ago, I posted about a problem I had with the hard
    >>>>> drive: http://snipurl.com/1q4s3, another thread
    >>>>> athttp://snipurl.com/1q4sz Everything was hesitating or
    >>>>> stuttering. I cloned the drive and replaced
    >>>>> it, because the SMART results indicated it was going bad
    >>>>> ("C5 Current Pending Sector Count 0 100 100 19 OK: Always
    >>>>> passing"). The drive replacement solved the problem until today.
    >>>>> It seems I'm having the same problem - the same symptoms - with
    >>>>> this new drive.

    >>
    >>>> The SMART report is fine tho, so it looks like you had a
    >>>> bad drive and the symptoms are due to something else.

    >>
    >>> But previously when I changed the drive the symptoms disappeared -
    >>> right away, on the first boot.
    >>> The new drive has been in there for a month. Now the symptoms have
    >>> reappeared.
    >>> If the symptoms disappeared when the drive disappeared, it tends to
    >>> mean the drive caused the symptoms.

    >>
    >> Yes, but the contraindication is that the SMART data is fine
    >> now and wasnt before the previous drive replacement.
    >>
    >> The symptoms you are seeing may be due to something outside
    >> the drive and the act of physically replacing the drive may have
    >> disturbed something physically, what was producing the symptom,
    >> and which has now returned by itself since.


    > The drive in the laptop is still covered by warranty.


    No evidence that the drive has a problem so they may well refuse a warranty claim.

    You should try the drive manufacturer's diagnostic on the drive.

    > I bought it form Micro Center in Overland Park, Kansas, which has a 30
    > day return-merchandise period (in addition to the term of any manufacture
    > warranty). But since I have to clone it to a new drive, I have to buy the
    > new one first, then clone, then wipe, and then return for a new drive.


    I wouldnt do that personally given that the drive appears to be fine.

    > But should I not get one with a 5400 RPM?
    > Should I get one with a low idle power consumption?


    Yes, since its clear that the laptop doesnt cool the drive properly.

    > I'll try removing the drive and then just putting it back in place.
    > Maybe the connector is defective. Or maybe something else
    > is wrong, as you suggested.


    Yeah, I think thats most likely. Classic dry joint/cracked trace type fault.

    > It's worth mentioning that the problem began both times when
    > I was watching a video. This is a operation that taxes the drive.


    > Also, the drive indicator light flicks on in-step with the stuttering as it happens.


    Yeah, the fault is likely producing intermittent data flow from the drive.

    >>>>> I haven't done much to fix it yet. I'm defraging now to
    >>>>> see if that helps. Below are the current SMART results.
    >>>>> Is the new drive bad too?


    >>>> Nope, that SMART report is fine.


    >>>>> Any ideas?


    >>>> See below.


    >>>>> Ron, I hope you're out there :-)


    >>>> In here actually |-)


    >>>>> Device Description
    >>>>> WDC WD800BEVE-11UYT0 (WD-WXH607044547)
    >>>>> ID Attribute Description Threshold Value Worst Data Status
    >>>>> 01 Raw Read Error Rate 51 200 200 7 OK: Value is normal
    >>>>> 03 Spin Up Time 21 189 188 1516 OK: Value is normal
    >>>>> 04 Start/Stop Count 0 100 100 103 OK: Always passing
    >>>>> 05 Reallocated Sector Count 140 200 200 0 OK: Value is normal
    >>>>> 07 Seek Error Rate 51 100 253 0 OK: Value is normal
    >>>>> 09 Power-On Time Count 0 100 100 373 OK: Always passing
    >>>>> 0A Spin Retry Count 51 100 100 0 OK: Value is normal
    >>>>> 0B Calibration Retry Count 51 100 253 0 OK: Value is normal
    >>>>> 0C Power Cycle Count 0 100 100 92 OK: Always passing
    >>>>> C0 Power-Off Retract Count 0 200 200 7 OK: Always passing
    >>>>> C1 Load/Unload Cycle Count 0 197 197 10827 OK: Always passing
    >>>>> C2 Temperature 0 97 90 50 OK: Always passing


    >>>> Thats rather high. Its showing 50C can that may well be the problem.


    >>>> Thats poor drive cooling.


    >>> You're saying the drive is OK,


    >> Yes.


    >>> yet is has poor cooling,


    >> Yes.


    > Actually, last time, you didn't like the Current Pending Sector Count,


    Yes, that drive was certainly dying. This one isnt.

    > but the SMART comment on that said passing.


    I dont think I've ever seen that say anything else, even with a known bad drive.

    > This time there's no problem with the Current Pending Sector Count.


    Correct.

    > I'm wondering if this problem is a problem that doesn't show up in the SMART report.


    The SMART report is JUST about the hard drive. If the fault is
    outside the hard drive, it wont have any effect on the SMART report.

    >>> and the symptoms were somehow caused by something else?


    >> Yes, thats what it looks like.


    > If the problem is caused by something other than the
    > drive, I still need to figure out what it is, unless it cures
    > itself as it did before when I replaced the drive.


    Sure, but thats not going to be easy if its a dry joint or cracked trace.

    >>> As I said earlier, there is no direct cooling of the drive. So, yes,
    >>> the cooling must be poor. But I would assume it should be
    >>> adequate considering the large number of these laptops in use.


    >> Thats not always the case. Some of the Dells had similarly poor drive
    >> cooling, and the drive temps were right on the edge of what the hard
    >> drive manufacturer allows, literally. Those laptops did have a much
    >> higher hard drive failure rate than usual and Dell did improve the drive
    >> cooling in later designs and the failure rate of the hard drives dropped
    >> to normal levels when they did.


    >>> I don't see anything else to do except to replace the drive again.


    >> I'd try physically removing it and replacing it, the same drive, to see if
    >> its the mechanical disturbance that is causing the symptoms to go away.


    >> There may be a dry joint or cracked trace on the motherboard etc.


    > I'll try removing-and-reinstalling the existing drive today. Assuming
    > the operation doesn't cure the problem, I'll replace the drive tomorrow.


    >>> As I said, I opened the CPU part, where there is a fan, and I didn't find much fur.


    >> Yeah, it seems clear that its just poorly designed and the drive doesnt get enough cooling.


    >>> There's really nothing to look at in the drive compartment.
    >>> The only thing in there is the drive.


    >> Sure. If the airflow is poor in there, you wont get a fur buildup there.


    >>>>> C4 Reallocation Event Count 0 200 200 0 OK: Always passing
    >>>>> C5 Current Pending Sector Count 0 200 200 0 OK: Always passing
    >>>>> C6 Off-Line Uncorrectable Sector Count 0 100 253 0 OK: Always passing
    >>>>> C7 Ultra ATA CRC Error Rate 0 200 200 0 OK: Always passing
    >>>>> C8 Write Error Rate 51 100 253 0 OK: Value is normal


    > Thanks again.


    No problem, happy to continue for as long as it takes.



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