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#2
10-08-2007, 09:48 AM
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 Re: IDE Reset & spinup galapogos > I'd like to know if hard drives spin up upon receiving power, Yep. > or only when the IDE reset signal becomes high? Nope. And you can prove that anytime by powering them up with the ribbon cable unplugged. They spin up fine.  |
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#3
10-08-2007, 09:48 AM
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| Re: IDE Reset & spinup Previously galapogos > Hi, > I'd like to know if hard drives spin up upon receiving power, or only > when the IDE reset signal becomes high? Depends. Today most HDDs are set to auto-spin, i.e. start when power is applied. There is a way to set HDDs to "power up in standby", i.e. not to auto-spin (hdparm -s), but drives are not required to implement this functionality. Some drives may have a way to set this in hardware (jumper, SATA power connector pin 11). However, with this behaviour the drive should not spin-up on reset, but only when brought out of standby mode. Look into the product malual of a specific drive to find out what it does and does not support here. Arno |
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#4
10-08-2007, 09:48 AM
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| Re: IDE Reset & spinup On Feb 6, 6:55 pm, Arno Wagner > Previously galapogos > > Hi, > > I'd like to know if hard drives spin up upon receiving power, or only > > when the IDE reset signal becomes high? > > Depends. Today most HDDs are set to auto-spin, i.e. start when > power is applied. There is a way to set HDDs to "power up in > standby", i.e. not to auto-spin (hdparm -s), but drives are > not required to implement this functionality. Some drives > may have a way to set this in hardware (jumper, SATA power > connector pin 11). > > However, with this behaviour the drive should not spin-up on reset, > but only when brought out of standby mode. Look into the > product malual of a specific drive to find out what it does > and does not support here. > > Arno Hmm so it's not part of the ATA specifications when the drive spins up? My own experience with an old 2.5" drive and a newer 1.8" drive is that power isn't applied until the RESET signal is high, but I just wanted to know if this was standard, or does it differ among drives? |
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#5
10-08-2007, 09:48 AM
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| Re: IDE Reset & spinup Previously galapogos > On Feb 6, 6:55 pm, Arno Wagner >> Previously galapogos >> > Hi, >> > I'd like to know if hard drives spin up upon receiving power, or only >> > when the IDE reset signal becomes high? >> >> Depends. Today most HDDs are set to auto-spin, i.e. start when >> power is applied. There is a way to set HDDs to "power up in >> standby", i.e. not to auto-spin (hdparm -s), but drives are >> not required to implement this functionality. Some drives >> may have a way to set this in hardware (jumper, SATA power >> connector pin 11). >> >> However, with this behaviour the drive should not spin-up on reset, >> but only when brought out of standby mode. Look into the >> product malual of a specific drive to find out what it does >> and does not support here. >> >> Arno > Hmm so it's not part of the ATA specifications when the drive spins > up? My own experience with an old 2.5" drive and a newer 1.8" drive is > that power isn't applied until the RESET signal is high, but I just > wanted to know if this was standard, or does it differ among drives? My guess is that the ATA specification recomends a default of auto-spin or leaves it open. Look ito the standard itself to find out. Arno |
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#6
10-08-2007, 09:48 AM
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| Re: IDE Reset & spinup Missing Person > Rod Speed >> galapogos >>> I'd like to know if hard drives spin up upon receiving power, >> Yep. >>> or only when the IDE reset signal becomes high? >> Nope. > Utter nonsense. We'll see... > As long as RESET! is held active on the ATA > interface, the drive will *not* spin up the platters. How odd that none of mine spin down on a reset. >> And you can prove that anytime by powering them >> up with the ribbon cable unplugged. They spin up fine. > Yeah? Short pin 1 (RESET!) on the ATA interface to GND. > Power up drive. It will not spin the platters. How odd that hard drives connected to a dead motherboard spin up fine when power is applied. > There's a very good reason for that. Your homework > assignment is to find out why and report back here. Never ever could bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag. |
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#7
10-08-2007, 09:48 AM
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| Re: IDE Reset & spinup On Feb 6, 9:56 pm, Arno Wagner > Previously galapogos > > On Feb 6, 6:55 pm, Arno Wagner > >> Previously galapogos > >> > Hi, > >> > I'd like to know if hard drives spin up upon receiving power, or only > >> > when the IDE reset signal becomes high? > > >> Depends. Today most HDDs are set to auto-spin, i.e. start when > >> power is applied. There is a way to set HDDs to "power up in > >> standby", i.e. not to auto-spin (hdparm -s), but drives are > >> not required to implement this functionality. Some drives > >> may have a way to set this in hardware (jumper, SATA power > >> connector pin 11). > > >> However, with this behaviour the drive should not spin-up on reset, > >> but only when brought out of standby mode. Look into the > >> product malual of a specific drive to find out what it does > >> and does not support here. > > >> Arno > > Hmm so it's not part of the ATA specifications when the drive spins > > up? My own experience with an old 2.5" drive and a newer 1.8" drive is > > that power isn't applied until the RESET signal is high, but I just > > wanted to know if this was standard, or does it differ among drives? > > My guess is that the ATA specification recomends a default of auto-spin > or leaves it open. Look ito the standard itself to find out. > > Arno I couldn't find anything in my ATA-6 documents when I looked, but I'll look again... Another question regarding spinup. HDD datasheets will usually have a spinup power figure. For example, 2.5" drives usually have spinup power consumptions in the order of 4-5W. How long does it take for the drive to spinup though, and is the 4-5W pretty much instantaneous power or does it continue over the entire spinup duration? Thanks. |
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#8
10-08-2007, 09:48 AM
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| Re: IDE Reset & spinup Previously galapogos > On Feb 6, 9:56 pm, Arno Wagner >> Previously galapogos >> > On Feb 6, 6:55 pm, Arno Wagner >> >> Previously galapogos >> >> > Hi, >> >> > I'd like to know if hard drives spin up upon receiving power, or only >> >> > when the IDE reset signal becomes high? >> >> >> Depends. Today most HDDs are set to auto-spin, i.e. start when >> >> power is applied. There is a way to set HDDs to "power up in >> >> standby", i.e. not to auto-spin (hdparm -s), but drives are >> >> not required to implement this functionality. Some drives >> >> may have a way to set this in hardware (jumper, SATA power >> >> connector pin 11). >> >> >> However, with this behaviour the drive should not spin-up on reset, >> >> but only when brought out of standby mode. Look into the >> >> product malual of a specific drive to find out what it does >> >> and does not support here. >> >> >> Arno >> > Hmm so it's not part of the ATA specifications when the drive spins >> > up? My own experience with an old 2.5" drive and a newer 1.8" drive is >> > that power isn't applied until the RESET signal is high, but I just >> > wanted to know if this was standard, or does it differ among drives? >> >> My guess is that the ATA specification recomends a default of auto-spin >> or leaves it open. Look ito the standard itself to find out. >> >> Arno > I couldn't find anything in my ATA-6 documents when I looked, but I'll > look again... Hmm. May be that there is no recomendation. AFAIK all current drives do auto-spin in their factory-default configuration, though. > Another question regarding spinup. HDD datasheets will usually have a > spinup power figure. For example, 2.5" drives usually have spinup > power consumptions in the order of 4-5W. How long does it take for the > drive to spinup though, and is the 4-5W pretty much instantaneous > power or does it continue over the entire spinup duration? Hmm. That would be something the manufacturer should put into the disk manual. I have seen one manual with a plot somewere. I will see whether I can find it. Arno |
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#9
10-08-2007, 09:48 AM
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| Re: IDE Reset & spinup Previously Arno Wagner > Previously galapogos >> On Feb 6, 9:56 pm, Arno Wagner >>> Previously galapogos >>> > On Feb 6, 6:55 pm, Arno Wagner >>> >> Previously galapogos >>> >> > Hi, >>> >> > I'd like to know if hard drives spin up upon receiving power, or only >>> >> > when the IDE reset signal becomes high? >>> >>> >> Depends. Today most HDDs are set to auto-spin, i.e. start when >>> >> power is applied. There is a way to set HDDs to "power up in >>> >> standby", i.e. not to auto-spin (hdparm -s), but drives are >>> >> not required to implement this functionality. Some drives >>> >> may have a way to set this in hardware (jumper, SATA power >>> >> connector pin 11). >>> >>> >> However, with this behaviour the drive should not spin-up on reset, >>> >> but only when brought out of standby mode. Look into the >>> >> product malual of a specific drive to find out what it does >>> >> and does not support here. >>> >>> >> Arno >>> > Hmm so it's not part of the ATA specifications when the drive spins >>> > up? My own experience with an old 2.5" drive and a newer 1.8" drive is >>> > that power isn't applied until the RESET signal is high, but I just >>> > wanted to know if this was standard, or does it differ among drives? >>> >>> My guess is that the ATA specification recomends a default of auto-spin >>> or leaves it open. Look ito the standard itself to find out. >>> >>> Arno >> I couldn't find anything in my ATA-6 documents when I looked, but I'll >> look again... > Hmm. May be that there is no recomendation. AFAIK all current drives > do auto-spin in their factory-default configuration, though. >> Another question regarding spinup. HDD datasheets will usually have a >> spinup power figure. For example, 2.5" drives usually have spinup >> power consumptions in the order of 4-5W. How long does it take for the >> drive to spinup though, and is the 4-5W pretty much instantaneous >> power or does it continue over the entire spinup duration? > Hmm. That would be something the manufacturer should put into the > disk manual. I have seen one manual with a plot somewere. I will see > whether I can find it. Found it: The "Barracuda ATA IV Family Product Manual, Rev. B" has a 12V power plot on page 9. You may be able to get this manual from Seagate. Short description: 0A until 2.3 sec -0.5A ... 2A oscillation until 5.25s 0.5A...1.8A oscillating until 6.25s 0A...0.5A after that with spikes up to 1.5A Arno |
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#10
10-08-2007, 09:48 AM
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| Re: IDE Reset & spinup On Feb 7, 5:32 pm, Arno Wagner > Previously Arno Wagner > > > > > Previously galapogos > >> On Feb 6, 9:56 pm, Arno Wagner > >>> Previously galapogos > >>> > On Feb 6, 6:55 pm, Arno Wagner > >>> >> Previously galapogos > >>> >> > Hi, > >>> >> > I'd like to know if hard drives spin up upon receiving power, or only > >>> >> > when the IDE reset signal becomes high? > > >>> >> Depends. Today most HDDs are set to auto-spin, i.e. start when > >>> >> power is applied. There is a way to set HDDs to "power up in > >>> >> standby", i.e. not to auto-spin (hdparm -s), but drives are > >>> >> not required to implement this functionality. Some drives > >>> >> may have a way to set this in hardware (jumper, SATA power > >>> >> connector pin 11). > > >>> >> However, with this behaviour the drive should not spin-up on reset, > >>> >> but only when brought out of standby mode. Look into the > >>> >> product malual of a specific drive to find out what it does > >>> >> and does not support here. > > >>> >> Arno > >>> > Hmm so it's not part of the ATA specifications when the drive spins > >>> > up? My own experience with an old 2.5" drive and a newer 1.8" drive is > >>> > that power isn't applied until the RESET signal is high, but I just > >>> > wanted to know if this was standard, or does it differ among drives? > > >>> My guess is that the ATA specification recomends a default of auto-spin > >>> or leaves it open. Look ito the standard itself to find out. > > >>> Arno > >> I couldn't find anything in my ATA-6 documents when I looked, but I'll > >> look again... > > Hmm. May be that there is no recomendation. AFAIK all current drives > > do auto-spin in their factory-default configuration, though. > >> Another question regarding spinup. HDD datasheets will usually have a > >> spinup power figure. For example, 2.5" drives usually have spinup > >> power consumptions in the order of 4-5W. How long does it take for the > >> drive to spinup though, and is the 4-5W pretty much instantaneous > >> power or does it continue over the entire spinup duration? > > Hmm. That would be something the manufacturer should put into the > > disk manual. I have seen one manual with a plot somewere. I will see > > whether I can find it. > > Found it: > > The "Barracuda ATA IV Family Product Manual, Rev. B" has a 12V > power plot on page 9. You may be able to get this manual from Seagate. > > Short description: > 0A until 2.3 sec > -0.5A ... 2A oscillation until 5.25s > 0.5A...1.8A oscillating until 6.25s > 0A...0.5A after that with spikes up to 1.5A > > Arno That's great. I was actually looking for info on 2.5" drives, and I was able to find the current profile graph in Seagate's Product Manuals. HGST and Toshiba were not so kind as to include this data in their datasheets/manuals/specs though...I guess I can assume they're similar? |
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#11
10-08-2007, 09:48 AM
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| Re: IDE Reset & spinup Missing Person > Rod Speed >> Missing Person >>> Rod Speed >>>> galapogos >>>>> I'd like to know if hard drives spin up upon receiving power, >>>> Yep. >>>>> or only when the IDE reset signal becomes high? >>>> Nope. >>> Utter nonsense. >> We'll see... > I don't have to "see", I know from 20 years of troubleshooting > electronics to the component level in the embedded marketplace. Like hell you do. IDE drives aint even been around that long, liar. > That's the difference between me and you, pudge. We'll see... > Experience versus hot air. Been doing it for a hell of a lot longer than that pathetic 20 years thanks, child. |
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#12
10-08-2007, 09:48 AM
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| Re: IDE Reset & spinup Previously galapogos > On Feb 7, 5:32 pm, Arno Wagner >> Previously Arno Wagner >> >> >> >> > Previously galapogos >> >> On Feb 6, 9:56 pm, Arno Wagner >> >>> Previously galapogos >> >>> > On Feb 6, 6:55 pm, Arno Wagner >> >>> >> Previously galapogos >> >>> >> > Hi, >> >>> >> > I'd like to know if hard drives spin up upon receiving power, or only >> >>> >> > when the IDE reset signal becomes high? >> >> >>> >> Depends. Today most HDDs are set to auto-spin, i.e. start when >> >>> >> power is applied. There is a way to set HDDs to "power up in >> >>> >> standby", i.e. not to auto-spin (hdparm -s), but drives are >> >>> >> not required to implement this functionality. Some drives >> >>> >> may have a way to set this in hardware (jumper, SATA power >> >>> >> connector pin 11). >> >> >>> >> However, with this behaviour the drive should not spin-up on reset, >> >>> >> but only when brought out of standby mode. Look into the >> >>> >> product malual of a specific drive to find out what it does >> >>> >> and does not support here. >> >> >>> >> Arno >> >>> > Hmm so it's not part of the ATA specifications when the drive spins >> >>> > up? My own experience with an old 2.5" drive and a newer 1.8" drive is >> >>> > that power isn't applied until the RESET signal is high, but I just >> >>> > wanted to know if this was standard, or does it differ among drives? >> >> >>> My guess is that the ATA specification recomends a default of auto-spin >> >>> or leaves it open. Look ito the standard itself to find out. >> >> >>> Arno >> >> I couldn't find anything in my ATA-6 documents when I looked, but I'll >> >> look again... >> > Hmm. May be that there is no recomendation. AFAIK all current drives >> > do auto-spin in their factory-default configuration, though. >> >> Another question regarding spinup. HDD datasheets will usually have a >> >> spinup power figure. For example, 2.5" drives usually have spinup >> >> power consumptions in the order of 4-5W. How long does it take for the >> >> drive to spinup though, and is the 4-5W pretty much instantaneous >> >> power or does it continue over the entire spinup duration? >> > Hmm. That would be something the manufacturer should put into the >> > disk manual. I have seen one manual with a plot somewere. I will see >> > whether I can find it. >> >> Found it: >> >> The "Barracuda ATA IV Family Product Manual, Rev. B" has a 12V >> power plot on page 9. You may be able to get this manual from Seagate. >> >> Short description: >> 0A until 2.3 sec >> -0.5A ... 2A oscillation until 5.25s >> 0.5A...1.8A oscillating until 6.25s >> 0A...0.5A after that with spikes up to 1.5A >> >> Arno > That's great. I was actually looking for info on 2.5" drives, and I > was able to find the current profile graph in Seagate's Product > Manuals. HGST and Toshiba were not so kind as to include this data in > their datasheets/manuals/specs though...I guess I can assume they're > similar? Either that and they were just to lazy to include them, or they are far worse. My guess would be they are similar. Arno |
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#13
10-08-2007, 09:48 AM
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| Re: IDE Reset & spinup "galapogos" > On Feb 7, 5:32 pm, Arno Wagner > > Previously Arno Wagner > > > > > > > > > Previously galapogos > > > > On Feb 6, 9:56 pm, Arno Wagner > > > > > Previously galapogos > > > > > > On Feb 6, 6:55 pm, Arno Wagner > > > > > > > Previously galapogos > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > I'd like to know if hard drives spin up upon receiving power, or only > > > > > > > > when the IDE reset signal becomes high? > > > > > > > > > Depends. Today most HDDs are set to auto-spin, i.e. start when > > > > > > > power is applied. There is a way to set HDDs to "power up in > > > > > > > standby", i.e. not to auto-spin (hdparm -s), but drives are > > > > > > > not required to implement this functionality. Some drives > > > > > > > may have a way to set this in hardware (jumper, SATA power > > > > > > > connector pin 11). > > > > > > > > > However, with this behaviour the drive should not spin-up on reset, > > > > > > > but only when brought out of standby mode. Look into the > > > > > > > product malual of a specific drive to find out what it does > > > > > > > and does not support here. > > > > > > > > > Arno > > > > > > > > > > > > Hmm so it's not part of the ATA specifications when the drive spins > > > > > > up? My own experience with an old 2.5" drive and a newer 1.8" drive is > > > > > > that power isn't applied until the RESET signal is high, but I just > > > > > > wanted to know if this was standard, or does it differ among drives? > > > > > > > My guess is that the ATA specification recomends a default of auto-spin > > > > > or leaves it open. Look ito the standard itself to find out. > > > > > > > Arno > > > > > > > > > I couldn't find anything in my ATA-6 documents when I looked, but I'll > > > > look again... > > > > > > Hmm. May be that there is no recomendation. AFAIK all current drives > > > do auto-spin in their factory-default configuration, though. > > > > > > > Another question regarding spinup. HDD datasheets will usually have a > > > > spinup power figure. For example, 2.5" drives usually have spinup > > > > power consumptions in the order of 4-5W. How long does it take for the > > > > drive to spinup though, and is the 4-5W pretty much instantaneous > > > > power or does it continue over the entire spinup duration? > > > > > > Hmm. That would be something the manufacturer should put into the > > > disk manual. I have seen one manual with a plot somewere. I will see > > > whether I can find it. So Babblebot, what is with this constant humming of yours? > > > > Found it: > > > > The "Barracuda ATA IV Family Product Manual, Rev. B" has a 12V > > power plot on page 9. You may be able to get this manual from Seagate. > > > > Short description: > > 0A until 2.3 sec > > -0.5A ... 2A oscillation until 5.25s Negative no less. A small miracle. > > 0.5A...1.8A oscillating until 6.25s > > 0A...0.5A after that with spikes up to 1.5A Which is after the drive has completed the physical spinup. > > > > Arno > > That's great. I was actually looking for info on 2.5" drives, and I > was able to find the current profile graph in Seagate's Product > Manuals. > HGST and Toshiba were not so kind as to include this data in > their datasheets/manuals/specs though... Then obviously you didn't look very hard. There are very detailed graphs in the Travelstar 60gh/40gn manual, different ones even for the different capacities. > I guess I can assume they're similar? Then you guess wrong. The Hitachi starts out at a higher average current and it then drops gradually. The Seagate keeps the average current more constant. |
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#14
10-08-2007, 09:48 AM
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| Re: IDE Reset & spinup "Rod Speed" > Missing Person > > Rod Speed > > > Missing Person > > > > Rod Speed > > > > > galapogos > > > > > > > I'd like to know if hard drives spin up upon receiving power, > > > > > > Yep. > > > > > > > or only when the IDE reset signal becomes high? > > > > > > Nope. > > > > > Utter nonsense. > > > > We'll see... > > > I don't have to "see", I know from 20 years of troubleshooting > > electronics to the component level in the embedded marketplace. > > Like hell you do. IDE drives aint even been around that long, liar. > > > That's the difference between me and you, pudge. > > We'll see... Guess not. > > > Experience versus hot air. > Been doing it for a hell of a lot longer than that pathetic 20 years thanks, child. Yeah, and doesn't it show. Mountains of your bull**** heating up this place. Despite "IDE drives not been around that long". Quite an accomplishment. > > Weasel. |
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#15
10-08-2007, 09:48 AM
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| Re: IDE Reset & spinup On Feb 8, 3:25 am, "Folkert Rienstra" > "galapogos" > > On Feb 7, 5:32 pm, Arno Wagner > > > Previously Arno Wagner > > > > > Previously galapogos > > > > > On Feb 6, 9:56 pm, Arno Wagner > > > > > > Previously galapogos > > > > > > > On Feb 6, 6:55 pm, Arno Wagner > > > > > > > > Previously galapogos > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > I'd like to know if hard drives spin up upon receiving power, or only > > > > > > > > > when the IDE reset signal becomes high? > > > > > > > > > Depends. Today most HDDs are set to auto-spin, i.e. start when > > > > > > > > power is applied. There is a way to set HDDs to "power up in > > > > > > > > standby", i.e. not to auto-spin (hdparm -s), but drives are > > > > > > > > not required to implement this functionality. Some drives > > > > > > > > may have a way to set this in hardware (jumper, SATA power > > > > > > > > connector pin 11). > > > > > > > > > However, with this behaviour the drive should not spin-up on reset, > > > > > > > > but only when brought out of standby mode. Look into the > > > > > > > > product malual of a specific drive to find out what it does > > > > > > > > and does not support here. > > > > > > > > > Arno > > > > > > > > Hmm so it's not part of the ATA specifications when the drive spins > > > > > > > up? My own experience with an old 2.5" drive and a newer 1.8" drive is > > > > > > > that power isn't applied until the RESET signal is high, but I just > > > > > > > wanted to know if this was standard, or does it differ among drives? > > > > > > > My guess is that the ATA specification recomends a default of auto-spin > > > > > > or leaves it open. Look ito the standard itself to find out. > > > > > > > Arno > > > > > > I couldn't find anything in my ATA-6 documents when I looked, but I'll > > > > > look again... > > > > > Hmm. May be that there is no recomendation. AFAIK all current drives > > > > do auto-spin in their factory-default configuration, though. > > > > > > Another question regarding spinup. HDD datasheets will usually have a > > > > > spinup power figure. For example, 2.5" drives usually have spinup > > > > > power consumptions in the order of 4-5W. How long does it take for the > > > > > drive to spinup though, and is the 4-5W pretty much instantaneous > > > > > power or does it continue over the entire spinup duration? > > > > > Hmm. That would be something the manufacturer should put into the > > > > disk manual. I have seen one manual with a plot somewere. I will see > > > > whether I can find it. > > So Babblebot, what is with this constant humming of yours? > > > > > > Found it: > > > > The "Barracuda ATA IV Family Product Manual, Rev. B" has a 12V > > > power plot on page 9. You may be able to get this manual from Seagate. > > > > Short description: > > > 0A until 2.3 sec > > > -0.5A ... 2A oscillation until 5.25s > > Negative no less. A small miracle. > > > > 0.5A...1.8A oscillating until 6.25s > > > 0A...0.5A after that with spikes up to 1.5A > > Which is after the drive has completed the physical spinup. > > > > > > Arno > > > That's great. I was actually looking for info on 2.5" drives, and I > > was able to find the current profile graph in Seagate's Product > > Manuals. > > HGST and Toshiba were not so kind as to include this data in > > their datasheets/manuals/specs though... > > Then obviously you didn't look very hard. > There are very detailed graphs in the Travelstar 60gh/40gn > manual, different ones even for the different capacities. > > > I guess I can assume they're similar? > > Then you guess wrong. > The Hitachi starts out at a higher average current and it then drops > gradually. The Seagate keeps the average current more constant. Do you have links to the Travelstar 60GH/40GN? I looked everywhere in the website but even the detailed specifications has everything but those graphs. |
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#16
10-08-2007, 09:49 AM
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| Re: IDE Reset & spinup Previously Folkert Rienstra > "galapogos" >> On Feb 7, 5:32 pm, Arno Wagner >> > Previously Arno Wagner >> > >> > >> > Found it: >> > >> > The "Barracuda ATA IV Family Product Manual, Rev. B" has a 12V >> > power plot on page 9. You may be able to get this manual from Seagate. >> > >> > Short description: >> > 0A until 2.3 sec >> > -0.5A ... 2A oscillation until 5.25s > Negative no less. A small miracle. Not at all. You just have not the least clue about motor driver design. Arno |
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#17
10-08-2007, 09:49 AM
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| Re: IDE Reset & spinup Heh, I finally escaped from Arnie Babblebot's killfile. "Arno Wagner" > Previously Folkert Rienstra > > "galapogos" > > > On Feb 7, 5:32 pm, Arno Wagner > > > > Previously Arno Wagner > > > > > > > > > > > > Found it: > > > > > > > > The "Barracuda ATA IV Family Product Manual, Rev. B" has a 12V > > > > power plot on page 9. You may be able to get this manual from Seagate. > > > > > > > > Short description: > > > > 0A until 2.3 sec > > > > > -0.5A ... 2A oscillation until 5.25s > > > Negative no less. A small miracle. > Not at all. You just have not the least clue about motor driver > design. Bwahahah!!!! Idjut. > > Arno |
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#18
10-08-2007, 09:49 AM
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| Re: IDE Reset & spinup "galapogos" > On Feb 8, 3:25 am, "Folkert Rienstra" > > "galapogos" > > > On Feb 7, 5:32 pm, Arno Wagner > > > > Previously Arno Wagner > > > > > Previously galapogos > > > > > > On Feb 6, 9:56 pm, Arno Wagner > > > > > > > Previously galapogos > > > > > > > > On Feb 6, 6:55 pm, Arno Wagner > > > > > > > > > Previously galapogos > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > I'd like to know if hard drives spin up upon receiving power, or only > > > > > > > > > > when the IDE reset signal becomes high? > > > > > > > > > > > Depends. Today most HDDs are set to auto-spin, i.e. start when > > > > > > > > > power is applied. There is a way to set HDDs to "power up in > > > > > > > > > standby", i.e. not to auto-spin (hdparm -s), but drives are > > > > > > > > > not required to implement this functionality. Some drives > > > > > > > > > may have a way to set this in hardware (jumper, SATA power > > > > > > > > > connector pin 11). > > > > > > > > > > > However, with this behaviour the drive should not spin-up on reset, > > > > > > > > > but only when brought out of standby mode. Look into the > > > > > > > > > product malual of a specific drive to find out what it does > > > > > > > > > and does not support here. > > > > > > > > > > > Arno > > > > > > > > > > Hmm so it's not part of the ATA specifications when the drive spins > > > > > > > > up? My own experience with an old 2.5" drive and a newer 1.8" drive is > > > > > > > > that power isn't applied until the RESET signal is high, but I just > > > > > > > > wanted to know if this was standard, or does it differ among drives? > > > > > > > > > My guess is that the ATA specification recomends a default of auto-spin > > > > > > > or leaves it open. Look ito the standard itself to find out. > > > > > > > > > Arno > > > > > > > > I couldn't find anything in my ATA-6 documents when I looked, but I'll > > > > > > look again... > > > > > > > Hmm. May be that there is no recomendation. AFAIK all current drives > > > > > do auto-spin in their factory-default configuration, though. > > > > > > > > Another question regarding spinup. HDD datasheets will usually have a > > > > > > spinup power figure. For example, 2.5" drives usually have spinup > > > > > > power consumptions in the order of 4-5W. How long does it take for the > > > > > > drive to spinup though, and is the 4-5W pretty much instantaneous > > > > > > power or does it continue over the entire spinup duration? > > > > > > > Hmm. That would be something the manufacturer should put into the > > > > > disk manual. I have seen one manual with a plot somewere. I will see > > > > > whether I can find it. > > > > So Babblebot, what is with this constant humming of yours? > > > > > > Found it: > > > > > > The "Barracuda ATA IV Family Product Manual, Rev. B" has a 12V > > > > power plot on page 9. You may be able to get this manual from Seagate. > > > > > > Short description: > > > > 0A until 2.3 sec > > > > -0.5A ... 2A oscillation until 5.25s > > > > Negative no less. A small miracle. > > > > > > 0.5A...1.8A oscillating until 6.25s > > > > 0A...0.5A after that with spikes up to 1.5A > > > > Which is after the drive has completed the physical spinup. > > > > > > Arno > > > That's great. I was actually looking for info on 2.5" drives, and I > > > was able to find the current profile graph in Seagate's Product > > > Manuals. Unfortunately the new improved Seagate site hides the manuals of older drives pretty well these days. > > > HGST and Toshiba were not so kind as to include this data in > > > their datasheets/manuals/specs though... > > > > Then obviously you didn't look very hard. > > There are very detailed graphs in the Travelstar 60gh/40gn > > manual, different ones even for the different capacities. > > > > > I guess I can assume they're similar? > > > > Then you guess wrong. > > The Hitachi starts out at a higher average current and it then drops > > gradually. The Seagate keeps the average current more constant. > Do you have links to the Travelstar 60GH/40GN? Hitachi documentation is under Technical Library. The full manuals are named 'OEM specification'. Or just type '60GH OEM spec' into the main page search box. > I looked everywhere in the website Obviously not. > but even the detailed specifications has everything but those graphs. I'll bet Seagate doesn't have any graphs either in their Data Sheets, so why should Hitachi and Toshiba have them. Apples and Oranges. http://129.33.84.137/search?q=60gh+o...o_dtd&Input=Go |
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#19
10-08-2007, 09:49 AM
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| Re: IDE Reset & spinup On Feb 8, 4:12 pm, "Folkert Rienstra" > "galapogos" > > On Feb 8, 3:25 am, "Folkert Rienstra" > > > "galapogos" > > > > On Feb 7, 5:32 pm, Arno Wagner > > > > > Previously Arno Wagner > > > > > > Previously galapogos > > > > > > > On Feb 6, 9:56 pm, Arno Wagner > > > > > > > > Previously galapogos > > > > > > > > > On Feb 6, 6:55 pm, Arno Wagner > > > > > > > > > > Previously galapogos > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > I'd like to know if hard drives spin up upon receiving power, or only > > > > > > > > > > > when the IDE reset signal becomes high? > > > > > > > > > > > Depends. Today most HDDs are set to auto-spin, i.e. start when > > > > > > > > > > power is applied. There is a way to set HDDs to "power up in > > > > > > > > > > standby", i.e. not to auto-spin (hdparm -s), but drives are > > > > > > > > > > not required to implement this functionality. Some drives > > > > > > > > > > may have a way to set this in hardware (jumper, SATA power > > > > > > > > > > connector pin 11). > > > > > > > > > > > However, with this behaviour the drive should not spin-up on reset, > > > > > > > > > > but only when brought out of standby mode. Look into the > > > > > > > > > > product malual of a specific drive to find out what it does > > > > > > > > > > and does not support here. > > > > > > > > > > > Arno > > > > > > > > > > Hmm so it's not part of the ATA specifications when the drive spins > > > > > > > > > up? My own experience with an old 2.5" drive and a newer 1.8" drive is > > > > > > > > > that power isn't applied until the RESET signal is high, but I just > > > > > > > > > wanted to know if this was standard, or does it differ among drives? > > > > > > > > > My guess is that the ATA specification recomends a default of auto-spin > > > > > > > > or leaves it open. Look ito the standard itself to find out. > > > > > > > > > Arno > > > > > > > > I couldn't find anything in my ATA-6 documents when I looked, but I'll > > > > > > > look again... > > > > > > > Hmm. May be that there is no recomendation. AFAIK all current drives > > > > > > do auto-spin in their factory-default configuration, though. > > > > > > > > Another question regarding spinup. HDD datasheets will usually have a > > > > > > > spinup power figure. For example, 2.5" drives usually have spinup > > > > > > > power consumptions in the order of 4-5W. How long does it take for the > > > > > > > drive to spinup though, and is the 4-5W pretty much instantaneous > > > > > > > power or does it continue over the entire spinup duration? > > > > > > > Hmm. That would be something the manufacturer should put into the > > > > > > disk manual. I have seen one manual with a plot somewere. I will see > > > > > > whether I can find it. > > > > So Babblebot, what is with this constant humming of yours? > > > > > > Found it: > > > > > > The "Barracuda ATA IV Family Product Manual, Rev. B" has a 12V > > > > > power plot on page 9. You may be able to get this manual from Seagate. > > > > > > Short description: > > > > > 0A until 2.3 sec > > > > > -0.5A ... 2A oscillation until 5.25s > > > > Negative no less. A small miracle. > > > > > > 0.5A...1.8A oscillating until 6.25s > > > > > 0A...0.5A after that with spikes up to 1.5A > > > > Which is after the drive has completed the physical spinup. > > > > > > Arno > > > > That's great. I was actually looking for info on 2.5" drives, and I > > > > was able to find the current profile graph in Seagate's Product > > > > Manuals. > > Unfortunately the new improved Seagate site hides the manuals of older drives pretty well these days. > > > > > HGST and Toshiba were not so kind as to include this data in > > > > their datasheets/manuals/specs though... > > > > Then obviously you didn't look very hard. > > > There are very detailed graphs in the Travelstar 60gh/40gn > > > manual, different ones even for the different capacities. > > > > > I guess I can assume they're similar? > > > > Then you guess wrong. > > > The Hitachi starts out at a higher average current and it then drops > > > gradually. The Seagate keeps the average current more constant. > > Do you have links to the Travelstar 60GH/40GN? > > Hitachi documentation is under Technical Library. > The full manuals are named 'OEM specification'. > > Or just type '60GH OEM spec' into the main page search box. > > > I looked everywhere in the website > > Obviously not. > > > but even the detailed specifications has everything but those graphs. > > I'll bet Seagate doesn't have any graphs either in their Data Sheets, > so why should Hitachi and Toshiba have them. Apples and Oranges. > > http://129.33.84.137/search?q=60gh+o...t_collection&c... Oh, ok...hgst has them for the older drives, but not for newer drives which I'm more interested in. |
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#20
10-08-2007, 09:49 AM
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| Re: IDE Reset & spinup "galapogos" > On Feb 8, 4:12 pm, "Folkert Rienstra" > > "galapogos" > > > On Feb 8, 3:25 am, "Folkert Rienstra" > > > > "galapogos" > > > > > On Feb 7, 5:32 pm, Arno Wagner > > > > > > Previously Arno Wagner > > > > > > > Previously galapogos > > > > > > > > On Feb 6, 9:56 pm, Arno Wagner > > > > > > > > > Previously galapogos > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 6, 6:55 pm, Arno Wagner > > > > > > > > > > > Previously galapogos > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd like to know if hard drives spin up upon receiving power, or only > > > > > > > > > > > > when the IDE reset signal becomes high? [snip] > > > > > That's great. I was actually looking for info on 2.5" drives, and I > > > > > was able to find the current profile graph in Seagate's Product Manuals. > > > > Unfortunately the new improved Seagate site hides the manuals of older > > drives pretty well these days. > > > > > > > HGST and Toshiba were not so kind as to include this data in > > > > > their datasheets/manuals/specs though... > > > > > > Then obviously you didn't look very hard. > > > > There are very detailed graphs in the Travelstar 60gh/40gn > > > > manual, different ones even for the different capacities. > > > > > > > I guess I can assume they're similar? > > > > > > Then you guess wrong. > > > > The Hitachi starts out at a higher average current and it then drops > > > > gradually. The Seagate keeps the average current more constant. > > > > > Do you have links to the Travelstar 60GH/40GN? > > > > Hitachi documentation is under Technical Library. > > The full manuals are named 'OEM specification'. > > > > Or just type '60GH OEM spec' into the main page search box. > > > > > I looked everywhere in the website > > > > Obviously not. > > > > > but even the detailed specifications has everything but those graphs. > > > > I'll bet Seagate doesn't have any graphs either in their Data Sheets, > > so why should Hitachi and Toshiba have them. Apples and Oranges. > > > > http://129.33.84.137/search?q=60gh+o...t_collection&c... > Oh, ok...hgst has them for the older drives, Yes, it does appear that this information is not continued in newer drive manuals for the new models that are exclusively Hitachi. They also appear to have dropped the OEM prefix. > but not for newer drives which I'm more interested in. Like it will be wildly different for newer drives. What particular microsecond in the spinup process are you interested in? |
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