In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Maxim S. Shatskih wrote:
>> That's what you get if you buy drives intended for backplane use.
>> Buy the ons intended for desktop cases, those with regular Molex power plug.

> Have you ever seen the SATA drive with old-ATA-style 5pin large power
> connector?

> If yes - can you name the models? I have only seens the SATA drives with new
> style power connector, looking like the SATA data one but wider.

I don't think there ever were such drives. There were some that had the
traditional 4 pin molex connector in addition to the SATA power connector.
Some early Seagete models I think.

Arno

> I don't think there ever were such drives. There were some that had the
> traditional 4 pin molex connector

Is the usual disk/CD power connector 4pin or 5? Sorry, do not have this at
sightseeing distance, only remember that it has +-5V and +-12V (and maybe
ground too?)

--
Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
StorageCraft Corporation
maxim@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com

Maxim S. Shatskih wrote:
>> I don't think there ever were such drives. There were some that had the
>> traditional 4 pin molex connector
>
> Is the usual disk/CD power connector 4pin or 5? Sorry, do not have this at
> sightseeing distance, only remember that it has +-5V and +-12V (and maybe
> ground too?)

4 pins: +5v, +12v, ground, plus the 4th pin which is also sometimes
ground (but may sometimes be unconnected, I think - at least one of my
USB external power connectors is IIRC)

- bill

Folkert Rienstra wrote:

> "willbill" wrote in message news:evomjo0oec@enews5.newsguy.com
>
>>bloody SATA connectors (electrical)!
>>
>>i've come across connection issues with my (admittedly limited) use
>>of SATA drives, both data and power, most recently power
>>
>>what an aggrevation!
>>
>>are others seeing this?


> That's what you get if you buy drives intended for backplane use.
> Buy the ons intended for desktop cases, those with regular Molex power plug.


i agree and have purchased WD SATA drives
for that very reason

my Seagate Barracuda SATA drives only have
the SATA power connector.

but it goes beyond just the damn lousy
power connector, it also applies to the
bloody SATA data cable/connector

bill

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Maxim S. Shatskih wrote:
>> I don't think there ever were such drives. There were some that had the
>> traditional 4 pin molex connector

> Is the usual disk/CD power connector 4pin or 5? Sorry, do not have this at
> sightseeing distance, only remember that it has +-5V and +-12V (and maybe
> ground too?)

+5-GND-GND-+12, i.e. 4 pins. SATA requires also 3.3V, but most drives do
not actually need it at the moment.

Arno

"Arno Wagner" wrote in message news:58mpilF2hkkd3U1@mid.individual.net
> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Maxim S. Shatskih wrote:
> > > I don't think there ever were such drives. There were some that had the
> > > traditional 4 pin molex connector
>
> > Is the usual disk/CD power connector 4pin or 5? Sorry, do not have this at
> > sightseeing distance, only remember that it has +-5V and +-12V (and maybe
> > ground too?)


> +5-GND-GND-+12, i.e. 4 pins.

> SATA requires also 3.3V,

Bull****, as always from the babblebot.
There is no such requirement.

> but most drives do not actually need it at the moment.

Because it's usually generated from the 5V internally.
Drives that don't use 5V will obviously have a problem if it is used with a
PS that doesn't supply 3.3 V at the Sata Power connector or are used with
a SATA to Molex converter cable.

>
> Arno

"willbill" wrote in message news:f049qu0tgv@enews5.newsguy.com
> Folkert Rienstra wrote:
>
> > "willbill" wrote in message news:evomjo0oec@enews5.newsguy.com
> >
> > > bloody SATA connectors (electrical)!
> > >
> > > i've come across connection issues with my (admittedly limited) use
> > > of SATA drives, both data and power, most recently power
> > >
> > > what an aggrevation!
> > >
> > > are others seeing this?
>
>
> > That's what you get if you buy drives intended for backplane use.
> > Buy the ones intended for desktop cases, those with regular Molex power plug.
>
>
> i agree and have purchased WD SATA drives for that very reason
>
> my Seagate Barracuda SATA drives only have the SATA power
> connector.
>
> but it goes beyond just the damn lousy power connector, it also applies
> to the bloody SATA data cable/connector

It shouldn't be a problem if you harness that data cable properly.
Cables should never run loose in any case.

>
> bill

Folkert Rienstra wrote:
> "Nik Simpson" wrote in message news:%c2Uh.10431$qB4.2860@bignews3.bellsouth.net
>> willbill wrote:
>>> bloody SATA connectors (electrical)!
>>>
>>> i've come across connection issues with my (admittedly limited) use
>>> of SATA drives, both data and power, most recently power.
>>>
>>> what an aggrevation!
>>>
>>> are others seeing this?
>>>
>
>> Yes, I think there is a special place in hell for the idiot who designed
>> the SATA connectors on the disk.
>
> How strange when below you just say they work utterly fine when used as intended.
>
>> I've given up, and when I build a PC I install a drive housing that occupies
>> 3x5.25" bays and gives me four hot plug SATA bugs. Because of the way
>> this is designed I've not had a single problem with power or drive connectors
>> since doing this.
>
> Gee, what a surprise: you are using them as intended.


So you're saying, that all the PC solutions out there where the
power/data connectors go directly into the drive as opposed to a
backplane are not using SATA drives the way they are intended. If that's
the case, then perhaps you could provide a cite for this claim, since
pretty much every commercially available PC with SATA drives are
configured with direct connections from the motherboard to the drives
with no intervening backplane.
--
Nik Simpson

"Maxim S. Shatskih" wrote in message
news:f027s7$1d5q$1@news.mtu.ru...
> > That's what you get if you buy drives intended for backplane use.
> > Buy the ons intended for desktop cases, those with regular Molex power
plug.
>
> Have you ever seen the SATA drive with old-ATA-style 5pin large power
> connector?
>
> If yes - can you name the models? I have only seens the SATA drives with
new
> style power connector, looking like the SATA data one but wider.
>
> --
> Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
> StorageCraft Corporation
> maxim@storagecraft.com
> http://www.storagecraft.com
>
My 160GB WD 1600js SATA II drive has both molex(4-pin) and sata power.Not
sure what you mean about old style 5-pin?

"Nik Simpson" wrote in message news:_l5Wh.832$TD3.542@bignews5.bellsouth.net
> Folkert Rienstra wrote:
> > "Nik Simpson" wrote in message news:%c2Uh.10431$qB4.2860@bignews3.bellsouth.net
> > > willbill wrote:
> > > > bloody SATA connectors (electrical)!
> > > >
> > > > i've come across connection issues with my (admittedly limited) use
> > > > of SATA drives, both data and power, most recently power.
> > > >
> > > > what an aggrevation!
> > > >
> > > > are others seeing this?
> > > >
> >
> > > Yes, I think there is a special place in hell for the idiot who designed
> > > the SATA connectors on the disk.
> >
> > How strange when below you just say they work utterly fine when used as intended.
> >
> > > I've given up, and when I build a PC I install a drive housing that occupies
> > > 3x5.25" bays and gives me four hot plug SATA bugs. Because of the way
> > > this is designed I've not had a single problem with power or drive connectors
> > > since doing this.
> >
> > Gee, what a surprise: you are using them as intended.
>

> So you're saying, that all the PC solutions out there where the
> power/data connectors go directly into the drive as opposed to a
> backplane are not using SATA drives the way they are intended.

I did?
I said that *you* were using the drives that *you* bought
(with backplane type power connectors) as 'intended'.
I said nothing about *all* Sata drives.
In the other post I specifically said to use drives with regular
molex power connector if you are not using them in servers or
other systems that use backplane type connectors or cages.

> If that's the case,

So obviously not.

> then perhaps you could provide a cite for this claim,
> since pretty much every commercially available PC with
> SATA drives are configured with direct connections

> from the motherboard to the drives with no intervening backplane.

Please try and work on your read apprehension.

Folkert Rienstra wrote:
> "Nik Simpson" wrote in message news:_l5Wh.832$TD3.542@bignews5.bellsouth.net
>> Folkert Rienstra wrote:
>>> "Nik Simpson" wrote in message news:%c2Uh.10431$qB4.2860@bignews3.bellsouth.net
>>>> willbill wrote:
>>>>> bloody SATA connectors (electrical)!
>>>>>
>>>>> i've come across connection issues with my (admittedly limited) use
>>>>> of SATA drives, both data and power, most recently power.
>>>>>
>>>>> what an aggrevation!
>>>>>
>>>>> are others seeing this?
>>>>>
>>>> Yes, I think there is a special place in hell for the idiot who designed
>>>> the SATA connectors on the disk.
>>> How strange when below you just say they work utterly fine when used as intended.
>>>
>>>> I've given up, and when I build a PC I install a drive housing that occupies
>>>> 3x5.25" bays and gives me four hot plug SATA bugs. Because of the way
>>>> this is designed I've not had a single problem with power or drive connectors
>>>> since doing this.
>>> Gee, what a surprise: you are using them as intended.
>
>> So you're saying, that all the PC solutions out there where the
>> power/data connectors go directly into the drive as opposed to a
>> backplane are not using SATA drives the way they are intended.
>
> I did?
> I said that *you* were using the drives that *you* bought
> (with backplane type power connectors) as 'intended'.
> I said nothing about *all* Sata drives.
> In the other post I specifically said to use drives with regular
> molex power connector if you are not using them in servers or
> other systems that use backplane type connectors or cages.
>
>> If that's the case,
>
> So obviously not.
>
>> then perhaps you could provide a cite for this claim,
>> since pretty much every commercially available PC with
>> SATA drives are configured with direct connections
>
>> from the motherboard to the drives with no intervening backplane.
>
> Please try and work on your read apprehension.

First, if you want get all superior, you might want to look up
"apprehension" and "comprehension" in a dictionary!

Second you seem to be claiming that the PC systems from vendors like
DELL etc all use the 4-pin power connector (since they don't come with
SATA backplanes), and if they don't then they are not using drives the
way they are intended! I must say that hasn't been my experience. Also,
I've bought a whole lot of SATA drives in the last few years and I've
yet to see any indication on the box as to which type of power connector
I'm getting. Surely if the SATA drive vendors intended this distinction
they would make it clear on the packaging, which they don't.

Personally I think you are pulling this out of somewhere south of your
navel, and that drives with 4-pin power connectors are there for people
who have PSUs that don't have SATA-style power connectors. By the way if
you are right about this, care to explain why modern PC power suppliers
have SATA style power connectors?




--
Nik Simpson

Nik Simpson wrote:
>
> Folkert Rienstra wrote:
> > "Nik Simpson" wrote in message news:_l5Wh.832$TD3.542@bignews5.bellsouth.net
> >> Folkert Rienstra wrote:
> >>> "Nik Simpson" wrote in message news:%c2Uh.10431$qB4.2860@bignews3.bellsouth.net
> >>>> willbill wrote:
> >>>>> bloody SATA connectors (electrical)!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> i've come across connection issues with my (admittedly limited) use
> >>>>> of SATA drives, both data and power, most recently power.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> what an aggrevation!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> are others seeing this?
> >>>>>
> >>>> Yes, I think there is a special place in hell for the idiot who designed
> >>>> the SATA connectors on the disk.
> >>> How strange when below you just say they work utterly fine when used as intended.
> >>>
> >>>> I've given up, and when I build a PC I install a drive housing that occupies
> >>>> 3x5.25" bays and gives me four hot plug SATA bugs. Because of the way
> >>>> this is designed I've not had a single problem with power or drive connectors
> >>>> since doing this.
> >>> Gee, what a surprise: you are using them as intended.
> >
> >> So you're saying, that all the PC solutions out there where the
> >> power/data connectors go directly into the drive as opposed to a
> >> backplane are not using SATA drives the way they are intended.
> >
> > I did?
> > I said that *you* were using the drives that *you* bought
> > (with backplane type power connectors) as 'intended'.
> > I said nothing about *all* Sata drives.
> > In the other post I specifically said to use drives with regular
> > molex power connector if you are not using them in servers or
> > other systems that use backplane type connectors or cages.
> >
> >> If that's the case,
> >
> > So obviously not.
> >
> >> then perhaps you could provide a cite for this claim,
> >> since pretty much every commercially available PC with
> >> SATA drives are configured with direct connections
> >
> >> from the motherboard to the drives with no intervening backplane.
> >
> > Please try and work on your read apprehension.
>
> First, if you want get all superior, you might want to look up
> "apprehension" and "comprehension" in a dictionary!
>
Nik,


Please don't wind Folknutter up.

Laughter is most definitely the best medicine, and his posts crease me
up no end.

I love them! The most hilarious poster on usenet, as far as I'm
concerned!

Read them, learn to live with them, realise the desperation in them, lay
back and laugh!

*Please* don't spoil my fun by chasing him away - he's precious.

Odie

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Odie Ferrous wrote:
> Nik Simpson wrote:
>>
>> Folkert Rienstra wrote:
>> > "Nik Simpson" wrote in message news:_l5Wh.832$TD3.542@bignews5.bellsouth.net
>> >> Folkert Rienstra wrote:
>> >>> "Nik Simpson" wrote in message news:%c2Uh.10431$qB4.2860@bignews3.bellsouth.net
>> >>>> willbill wrote:
>> >>>>> bloody SATA connectors (electrical)!
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> i've come across connection issues with my (admittedly limited) use
>> >>>>> of SATA drives, both data and power, most recently power.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> what an aggrevation!
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> are others seeing this?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>> Yes, I think there is a special place in hell for the idiot who designed
>> >>>> the SATA connectors on the disk.
>> >>> How strange when below you just say they work utterly fine when used as intended.
>> >>>
>> >>>> I've given up, and when I build a PC I install a drive housing that occupies
>> >>>> 3x5.25" bays and gives me four hot plug SATA bugs. Because of the way
>> >>>> this is designed I've not had a single problem with power or drive connectors
>> >>>> since doing this.
>> >>> Gee, what a surprise: you are using them as intended.
>> >
>> >> So you're saying, that all the PC solutions out there where the
>> >> power/data connectors go directly into the drive as opposed to a
>> >> backplane are not using SATA drives the way they are intended.
>> >
>> > I did?
>> > I said that *you* were using the drives that *you* bought
>> > (with backplane type power connectors) as 'intended'.
>> > I said nothing about *all* Sata drives.
>> > In the other post I specifically said to use drives with regular
>> > molex power connector if you are not using them in servers or
>> > other systems that use backplane type connectors or cages.
>> >
>> >> If that's the case,
>> >
>> > So obviously not.
>> >
>> >> then perhaps you could provide a cite for this claim,
>> >> since pretty much every commercially available PC with
>> >> SATA drives are configured with direct connections
>> >
>> >> from the motherboard to the drives with no intervening backplane.
>> >
>> > Please try and work on your read apprehension.
>>
>> First, if you want get all superior, you might want to look up
>> "apprehension" and "comprehension" in a dictionary!
>>
> Nik,


> Please don't wind Folknutter up.

> Laughter is most definitely the best medicine, and his posts crease me
> up no end.

> I love them! The most hilarious poster on usenet, as far as I'm
> concerned!

> Read them, learn to live with them, realise the desperation in them, lay
> back and laugh!

> *Please* don't spoil my fun by chasing him away - he's precious.

Hehe. No chance of that. The only thing I really admire in Folkert is
his persistence. Truely amazing.

Arno

"Arno Wagner" wrote in message news:594r3dF2jiedjU1@mid.individual.net
> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Odie Ferrous wrote:
> > Nik Simpson wrote:
> > > Folkert Rienstra wrote:
> > > > "Nik Simpson" wrote in message news:_l5Wh.832$TD3.542@bignews5.bellsouth.net
> > > > > Folkert Rienstra wrote:
> > > > > > "Nik Simpson" wrote in message news:%c2Uh.10431$qB4.2860@bignews3.bellsouth.net
> > > > > > > willbill wrote:
> > > > > > > > bloody SATA connectors (electrical)!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > i've come across connection issues with my (admittedly limited) use
> > > > > > > > of SATA drives, both data and power, most recently power.
> > > > > > > > what an aggrevation! are others seeing this?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yes, I think there is a special place in hell for the idiot who designed
> > > > > > > the SATA connectors on the disk.
> > > > > > How strange when below you just say they work utterly fine when used as intended.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I've given up, and when I build a PC I install a drive housing that occupies
> > > > > > > 3x5.25" bays and gives me four hot plug SATA bugs. Because of the way
> > > > > > > this is designed I've not had a single problem with power or drive connectors
> > > > > > > since doing this.
> > > > > > Gee, what a surprise: you are using them as intended.
> > > >
> > > > > So you're saying, that all the PC solutions out there where the
> > > > > power/data connectors go directly into the drive as opposed to a
> > > > > backplane are not using SATA drives the way they are intended.
> > > >
> > > > I did?
> > > > I said that *you* were using the drives that *you* bought
> > > > (with backplane type power connectors) as 'intended'.
> > > > I said nothing about *all* Sata drives.
> > > > In the other post I specifically said to use drives with regular
> > > > molex power connector if you are not using them in servers or
> > > > other systems that use backplane type connectors or cages.
> > > >
> > > > > If that's the case,
> > > >
> > > > So obviously not.
> > > >
> > > > > then perhaps you could provide a cite for this claim,
> > > > > since pretty much every commercially available PC with
> > > > > SATA drives are configured with direct connections
> > > >
> > > > > from the motherboard to the drives with no intervening backplane.
> > > >
> > > > Please try and work on your read apprehension.

> > > First, if you want get all superior, you might want to look up
> > > "apprehension" and "comprehension" in a dictionary!

Uhuh. Like you did, eh Nikki?
Obviously not.

http://www.google.com/search?num=100...tnG=Search&lr=

Sounds to me that the use of 'reading apprehension' was totally appropriate, Nikki.

> > >
> > Nik,
>
>
> > Please don't wind Folknutter up.
>
> > Laughter is most definitely the best medicine, and his posts crease me
> > up no end.
>
> > I love them! The most hilarious poster on usenet, as far as I'm concerned!
>
> > Read them, learn to live with them, realise the desperation in them, lay
> > back and laugh!
>
> > *Please* don't spoil my fun by chasing him away - he's precious.

And now you know exactly what moves the odi(e)fe(r)rous, 'the stinking one'.

> Hehe. No chance of that. The only thing I really admire in Folkert is
> his persistence. Truely amazing.

Sounds like a perfect description of yourself, babblebot. To a T.
Have you been gazing in that mirror again? I told you to stop that.

>
> Arno

I note you failed to address any of the points I made about SATA power
connectors. Just in case you were having comprehension or apprehension
difficulties, I'll restate them for you...

If drives with SATA-style power connector are not to be used except in
backplane type situations, how come:

1. Why do the drive vendors make no attempt to distinguish between those
drives that require SATA type power connectors and those that don't on
the retail packaging?

2. Why do modern PC power supplies have SATA type power connectors as a
standard feature?

3. Why do major PC vendors ship drives with SATA type power connectors
without worrying about putting a backplane in for the drives?

Come on you're such smart fellow, entertain us, give us an explanation!
--
Nik Simpson