how about paging to SAN? - Storage

This is a discussion on how about paging to SAN? - Storage ; Hi, I'm considering to deploy my paging space in a SAN product, say, HDS AMS1000. I know it's a safer decision to use rootvg but I think it worths a discussion. It's a olap application so the paging is major ...

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Thread: how about paging to SAN?

  1. how about paging to SAN?

    Hi, I'm considering to deploy my paging space in a SAN product, say,
    HDS AMS1000. I know it's a safer decision to use rootvg but I think it
    worths a discussion.

    It's a olap application so the paging is major of big data blocks.

    Pls share your opinions and pls share the experience using a paging on
    SAN if you have...

    Thank you.


  2. Re: how about paging to SAN?

    On 20 Mar, 13:11, "wyh...@gmail.com" wrote:
    > Hi, I'm considering to deploy my paging space in a SAN product, say,
    > HDS AMS1000. I know it's a safer decision to use rootvg but I think it
    > worths a discussion.
    >
    > It's a olap application so the paging is major of big data blocks.
    >
    > Pls share your opinions and pls share the experience using a paging on
    > SAN if you have...
    >
    > Thank you.


    We use SAN for our paging (but keep hd6 on rootvg of course which are
    non-san disks).
    I cant see why it would be safer to have it all on rootvg really?
    We dont have any problems with it being on the SAN.
    Of course you have to make sure you have good SAN performance, but
    then you'd want that anyway.
    Regards,
    Scott


  3. Re: how about paging to SAN?

    On Mar 20, 9:11 am, "wyh...@gmail.com" wrote:
    > Hi, I'm considering to deploy my paging space in a SAN product, say,
    > HDS AMS1000. I know it's a safer decision to use rootvg but I think it
    > worths a discussion.
    >
    > It's a olap application so the paging is major of big data blocks.
    >
    > Pls share your opinions and pls share the experience using a paging on
    > SAN if you have...
    >
    > Thank you.


    Personally, I don't like paging, or booting from SAN, as it adds
    additional
    layers of complexity, and additional equipment that MUST be working
    error
    free, in order to have an operational system.
    (HBA's, link cables, switches, fabrics, trunking, array firmware....
    etc)

    In this particular case, I would worry more about WHY I'm paging, than
    where to place the paging space on disk. If you're paging, application
    performance is going to suffer in either case.





  4. Re: how about paging to SAN?

    On Mar 20, 10:19 pm, "scott" wrote:
    > On 20 Mar, 13:11, "wyh...@gmail.com" wrote:
    >
    > > Hi, I'm considering to deploy my paging space in a SAN product, say,
    > > HDS AMS1000. I know it's a safer decision to use rootvg but I think it
    > > worths a discussion.

    >
    > > It's a olap application so the paging is major of big data blocks.

    oh, I mean it's safe for a decision maker for paging on rootvg is very
    common...

    I think what I want to do it what you have done.
    >
    > > Pls share your opinions and pls share the experience using a paging on
    > > SAN if you have...

    >
    > > Thank you.

    >
    > We use SAN for our paging (but keep hd6 on rootvg of course which are
    > non-san disks).
    > I cant see why it would be safer to have it all on rootvg really?
    > We dont have any problems with it being on the SAN.
    > Of course you have to make sure you have good SAN performance, but
    > then you'd want that anyway.
    > Regards,
    > Scott




  5. Re: how about paging to SAN?

    Thank you. I totally agree with you that we should do everything to
    avoid paging.
    but in a customer environment, where their system is not tuned very
    well and there maybe ad-hoc queries on Tbs data...
    I'm considering for the worst conditions.

    Here, HDS AMS1000 is involved. Customer forwarded the note HDS
    provides: they said HDLM is not supporting paging space which I highly
    suspected and they suggest only a paging on rootvg solution.

    >
    > Personally, I don't like paging, or booting from SAN, as it adds
    > additional
    > layers of complexity, and additional equipment that MUST be working
    > error
    > free, in order to have an operational system.
    > (HBA's, link cables, switches, fabrics, trunking, array firmware....
    > etc)
    >
    > In this particular case, I would worry more about WHY I'm paging, than
    > where to place the paging space on disk. If you're paging, application
    > performance is going to suffer in either case.




  6. Re: how about paging to SAN?

    On Mar 20, 11:20 pm, aixd...@yahoo.com wrote:
    > On Mar 20, 9:11 am, "wyh...@gmail.com" wrote:
    >
    > > Hi, I'm considering to deploy my paging space in a SAN product, say,
    > > HDS AMS1000. I know it's a safer decision to use rootvg but I think it
    > > worths a discussion.

    >
    > > It's a olap application so the paging is major of big data blocks.

    >
    > > Pls share your opinions and pls share the experience using a paging on
    > > SAN if you have...

    in a situation where not well tuned ad-hoc queries on Tbs data, or
    something similar you cannot control...
    I know either is a disaster when we trap into a large paging situation
    but I just want the one but the worst.

    >
    > > Thank you.

    >
    > Personally, I don't like paging, or booting from SAN, as it adds
    > additional
    > layers of complexity, and additional equipment that MUST be working
    > error
    > free, in order to have an operational system.
    > (HBA's, link cables, switches, fabrics, trunking, array firmware....
    > etc)
    >
    > In this particular case, I would worry more about WHY I'm paging, than
    > where to place the paging space on disk. If you're paging, application
    > performance is going to suffer in either case.




  7. Re: how about paging to SAN?

    scott wrote:
    > We use SAN for our paging (but keep hd6 on rootvg of course which are
    > non-san disks).
    > I cant see why it would be safer to have it all on rootvg really?


    Well, simply because you are relying on an external path that may
    include a fiber HBA, cables, a switch and an external storage unit. More
    potential points of failure.

    I'm not violently disagreeing, since if your applications all reside on
    all external disk my whole argument would be pointless. Furthermore, if
    you do it right you will see a performance benefit over internal SCSI disk.

    Even so, I'm not convinced about the external route and see no reason
    why my internal SCSI disks can't do the job. I'd rather ensure that my
    system has enough memory (to avoid much paging), tune that and stick to
    a conservative approach that maximises uptime.

    cheers
    Niel

  8. Re: how about paging to SAN?

    scott wrote:
    > We use SAN for our paging (but keep hd6 on rootvg of course which are
    > non-san disks).


    Do you think that somehow this will protect you from an outage if one of
    your other paging spaces became unavailable?

    Niel

  9. Re: how about paging to SAN?

    On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 06:11:31 -0700, wyhang@gmail.com wrote:

    > Hi, I'm considering to deploy my paging space in a SAN product, say,
    > HDS AMS1000. I know it's a safer decision to use rootvg but I think it
    > worths a discussion.
    >
    > It's a olap application so the paging is major of big data blocks.
    >
    > Pls share your opinions and pls share the experience using a paging on
    > SAN if you have...
    >
    > Thank you.


    I hate to be the voice of doom and gloom, but I have seen infrequent
    scenarios where a hiccup of some sort in the SAN while AIX was servicing a
    page fault to/from a SAN-based paging space started the O/S on a slow
    spiral to oblivion or crashed it. I've seen that with McData and Cisco
    switches in the middle but always with EMC disk in the back end, so it may
    have more to do with the EMC PowerPath software driver stack than it does
    anything else...

    -Chris

  10. Re: how about paging to SAN?

    On Mar 20, 12:21 pm, "Hardy" wrote:
    > On Mar 20, 11:20 pm, aixd...@yahoo.com wrote:> On Mar 20, 9:11 am, "wyh...@gmail.com" wrote:
    >
    > > > Hi, I'm considering to deploy my paging space in a SAN product, say,
    > > > HDS AMS1000. I know it's a safer decision to use rootvg but I think it
    > > > worths a discussion.

    >
    > > > It's a olap application so the paging is major of big data blocks.

    >
    > > > Pls share your opinions and pls share the experience using a paging on
    > > > SAN if you have...

    >
    > in a situation where not well tuned ad-hoc queries on Tbs data, or
    > something similar you cannot control...
    > I know either is a disaster when we trap into a large paging situation
    > but I just want the one but the worst.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > > Thank you.

    >
    > > Personally, I don't like paging, or booting from SAN, as it adds
    > > additional
    > > layers of complexity, and additional equipment that MUST be working
    > > error
    > > free, in order to have an operational system.
    > > (HBA's, link cables, switches, fabrics, trunking, array firmware....
    > > etc)

    >
    > > In this particular case, I would worry more about WHY I'm paging, than
    > > where to place the paging space on disk. If you're paging, application
    > > performance is going to suffer in either case.- Hide quoted text -

    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    Hi,
    I am using SAN for paging on one of my larger AIX DB servers. I do
    have hd6 of course, but all my additional paging space is on SAN. I
    am running 10 Oracle apps databases off this particular server. I
    have been doing this for almost a year with no issues. The SAN is
    EMC symetrics, not power path. I will agree with a previous poster
    EMC power path software has caused me issues in the past, using EMC
    Clarion on AIX.




  11. Re: how about paging to SAN?

    Thank you

    It seems that there are some mistakes in the multipath software... HDS
    engineer told me not to use HDLM when SAN was used for paging...

    On 3月22日, 上午8时25分, "Denise" wrote:
    > On Mar 20, 12:21 pm, "Hardy" wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > On Mar 20, 11:20 pm, aixd...@yahoo.com wrote:> On Mar 20, 9:11 am, "wyh....@gmail.com" wrote:

    >
    > > > > Hi, I'm considering to deploy my paging space in a SAN product, say,
    > > > > HDS AMS1000. I know it's a safer decision to use rootvg but I thinkit
    > > > > worths a discussion.

    >
    > > > > It's a olap application so the paging is major of big data blocks.

    >
    > > > > Pls share your opinions and pls share the experience using a pagingon
    > > > > SAN if you have...

    >
    > > in a situation where not well tuned ad-hoc queries on Tbs data, or
    > > something similar you cannot control...
    > > I know either is a disaster when we trap into a large paging situation
    > > but I just want the one but the worst.

    >
    > > > > Thank you.

    >
    > > > Personally, I don't like paging, or booting from SAN, as it adds
    > > > additional
    > > > layers of complexity, and additional equipment that MUST be working
    > > > error
    > > > free, in order to have an operational system.
    > > > (HBA's, link cables, switches, fabrics, trunking, array firmware....
    > > > etc)

    >
    > > > In this particular case, I would worry more about WHY I'm paging, than
    > > > where to place the paging space on disk. If you're paging, application
    > > > performance is going to suffer in either case.- Hide quoted text -

    >
    > > - Show quoted text -

    >
    > Hi,
    > I am using SAN for paging on one of my larger AIX DB servers. I do
    > have hd6 of course, but all my additional paging space is on SAN. I
    > am running 10 Oracle apps databases off this particular server. I
    > have been doing this for almost a year with no issues. The SAN is
    > EMC symetrics, not power path. I will agree with a previous poster
    > EMC power path software has caused me issues in the past, using EMC
    > Clarion on AIX.
    >
    > - 隐藏被引用文字 -
    >
    > - 显示引用的文字 -




  12. Re: how about paging to SAN?

    Denise wrote:
    > [snip]
    > Hi,
    > I am using SAN for paging on one of my larger AIX DB servers. I do
    > have hd6 of course, but all my additional paging space is on SAN. I
    > am running 10 Oracle apps databases off this particular server. I
    > have been doing this for almost a year with no issues. The SAN is
    > EMC symetrics, not power path. I will agree with a previous poster
    > EMC power path software has caused me issues in the past, using EMC
    > Clarion on AIX.


    As a soon-to-be AIX user (+EMC Symmetrix), I'd be interested in knowing what
    kind of PowerPath issues you experienced.

    --
    David J Dachtera
    dba DJE Systems
    http://www.djesys.com/

    Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/

    Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/

    Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/

    Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/

  13. Re: how about paging to SAN?

    Christopher Petersen wrote:
    >
    > On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 06:11:31 -0700, wyhang@gmail.com wrote:
    >
    > > Hi, I'm considering to deploy my paging space in a SAN product, say,
    > > HDS AMS1000. I know it's a safer decision to use rootvg but I think it
    > > worths a discussion.
    > >
    > > It's a olap application so the paging is major of big data blocks.
    > >
    > > Pls share your opinions and pls share the experience using a paging on
    > > SAN if you have...
    > >
    > > Thank you.

    >
    > I hate to be the voice of doom and gloom, but I have seen infrequent
    > scenarios where a hiccup of some sort in the SAN while AIX was servicing a
    > page fault to/from a SAN-based paging space started the O/S on a slow
    > spiral to oblivion or crashed it. I've seen that with McData and Cisco
    > switches in the middle but always with EMC disk in the back end, so it may
    > have more to do with the EMC PowerPath software driver stack than it does
    > anything else...


    As a soon-to-be AIX user (+EMC Symmetrix), I'd be interested in any details you
    can provide.

    Feel free to contact me off-line. How to demung the reply-to should be obvious.

    --
    David J Dachtera
    dba DJE Systems
    http://www.djesys.com/

    Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/

    Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/

    Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/

    Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/

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