Re: Exposing Windows 2000 Direct Attach Storage Upstream as Fibre Channel - Storage

This is a discussion on Re: Exposing Windows 2000 Direct Attach Storage Upstream as Fibre Channel - Storage ; That's $50K plus, ouch. I'm looking for something that is more of a mass market tool. -- Will Internet: westes at earthbroadcast.com "Rob Turk" wrote in message news:422ac38b$0$84710$e4fe514c@dreader6.news.xs4al l.nl... > Datacore ( www.datacore.com ) SANsymphony. Not sure how well is ...

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Thread: Re: Exposing Windows 2000 Direct Attach Storage Upstream as Fibre Channel

  1. Re: Exposing Windows 2000 Direct Attach Storage Upstream as Fibre Channel

    That's $50K plus, ouch. I'm looking for something that is more
    of a mass market tool.

    --
    Will
    Internet: westes at earthbroadcast.com


    "Rob Turk" <_wipe_me_r.turk@chello.nl> wrote in message
    news:422ac38b$0$84710$e4fe514c@dreader6.news.xs4al l.nl...
    > Datacore (www.datacore.com) SANsymphony. Not sure how well is

    works
    >
    > Rob




  2. Re: Exposing Windows 2000 Direct Attach Storage Upstream as Fibre Channel

    SANmelody, with fibre channel option, is Datacore's lower tier product
    which can be purchased for $2600. This would allow disk partitions to
    be presented as fibre channel LUNs to other servers. Two points to
    consider. One, the server running the Datacore software can't
    effectively access the partition being served. Two, while multiple
    servers could access the same LUN you still need to have some form of
    sharing software before multiple servers can access the same LUN at the
    same time.

    There are a few other packages that allow the serving up of fibre
    channel LUNs but I dont believe there are any others that run on a
    windows platform.


  3. Re: Exposing Windows 2000 Direct Attach Storage Upstream as Fibre Channel

    I'm looking for a low-cost way to turn a Windows 2000 server into
    a head end of a SATA RAID system. This "low-end" product costs
    more for the software alone than some of the SATA head ends do.
    My own sense is that $900 is about the sweet spot for a product
    of this type.

    What are the other packages? I assume that those are either
    Linux based or run their own proprietary OS? Which of those
    others has received the best reviews?

    --
    Will
    Internet: westes at earthbroadcast.com


    wrote in message
    news:1110211728.166029.38950@o13g2000cwo.googlegro ups.com...
    > SANmelody, with fibre channel option, is Datacore's lower tier

    product
    > which can be purchased for $2600. This would allow disk

    partitions to
    > be presented as fibre channel LUNs to other servers. Two points

    to
    > consider. One, the server running the Datacore software can't
    > effectively access the partition being served. Two, while

    multiple
    > servers could access the same LUN you still need to have some

    form of
    > sharing software before multiple servers can access the same

    LUN at the
    > same time.
    >
    > There are a few other packages that allow the serving up of

    fibre
    > channel LUNs but I dont believe there are any others that run

    on a
    > windows platform.
    >




  4. Re: Exposing Windows 2000 Direct Attach Storage Upstream as Fibre Channel

    "Will" wrote in message
    news:XNKdnaelTsG9RLDfRVn-gQ@giganews.com...
    > I'm looking for a low-cost way to turn a Windows 2000 server into
    > a head end of a SATA RAID system. This "low-end" product costs
    > more for the software alone than some of the SATA head ends do.
    > My own sense is that $900 is about the sweet spot for a product
    > of this type.
    >
    > What are the other packages? I assume that those are either
    > Linux based or run their own proprietary OS? Which of those
    > others has received the best reviews?
    >
    > --
    > Will
    > Internet: westes at earthbroadcast.com


    The problem is that you're looking for a solution that isn't used in
    commodity environments. Your $900 "sweet spot" doesn't make sense. The
    clients that would invest in such a system need to invest in FC host
    adapters that are around $900 each and a switch of $5000, just to get
    connected.

    If you're looking at creating a block-device SAN-like solution, try iSCSI
    software clients and a SATA-based iSCSI target server. I believe there's a
    Linux iSCSI target server that you can use, or you may even want to check
    out Novell Netware 6.5 with it's iSCSI target implementation.

    Rob



  5. Re: Exposing Windows 2000 Direct Attach Storage Upstream as Fibre Channel

    You specified a fibre channel target. You are not going to be able to
    create a head unit providing this kind of connectivity at that price
    range.

    Falconstor's IPstor, which runs on a Linux platform, is the only other
    standalone software product I am aware of that can provide fibre
    channel connectivity. The last time I checked it was in a similar price
    range.

    An iSCSI head unit could be created at a lower cost. Without the fibre
    channel connectivity a Datacore solution could be as low as $200 for
    the software. There are quite a number of other iSCSI packages that
    would provide this kind of target.


  6. Re: Exposing Windows 2000 Direct Attach Storage Upstream as FibreChannel

    Will wrote:
    > That's $50K plus, ouch. I'm looking for something that is more
    > of a mass market tool.
    >

    In which case, the product you want is SAN Melody from DataCore which is
    specifically designed to do what you are looking for, see:

    http://www.datacore.com/products/prod_SANmelodyLite.asp (For the lite
    $199 version)

    or

    http://www.datacore.com/products/prod_SANmelody.asp

    For the all singing all dancing version.

    --
    Nik Simpson

  7. Re: Exposing Windows 2000 Direct Attach Storage Upstream as Fibre Channel

    $900 for the host adapter.
    $2500 for the head end
    Around $6000 for the drives
    The host adapter can just direct connect to the head end or go
    through a cheap fibre hub ($200)

    To do this with an existing Windows 200x Server:

    $900 for the host adapter
    $1000 for the JBOD drive cabinet
    $2000 for the server (storage server)
    $1000 for Veritas Volume Manager
    $6000 for the drives.

    Now I have to pay $2600 more for software to expose the LUN?
    I'm looking for something that should be a $300 option for
    Veritas' software. Paying $2600 for it makes it more expensive
    than buying external hardware that shrink wraps the whole
    solution. I think $2600 is very greedy for something that is
    not so complex and doesn't have a chance of surviving long term
    as a product on its own. It's clear to me that Veritas will
    eventually hear this customer requirement and subsume it into the
    Storage Foundation.

    --
    Will
    Internet: westes at earthbroadcast.com


    "Rob Turk" <_wipe_me_r.turk@chello.nl> wrote in message
    news:422e02e3$0$171$e4fe514c@dreader13.news.xs4all .nl...
    > "Will" wrote in message
    > news:XNKdnaelTsG9RLDfRVn-gQ@giganews.com...
    > > I'm looking for a low-cost way to turn a Windows 2000 server

    into
    > > a head end of a SATA RAID system. This "low-end" product

    costs
    > > more for the software alone than some of the SATA head ends

    do.
    > > My own sense is that $900 is about the sweet spot for a

    product
    > > of this type.
    > >
    > > What are the other packages? I assume that those are either
    > > Linux based or run their own proprietary OS? Which of

    those
    > > others has received the best reviews?
    > >
    > > --
    > > Will
    > > Internet: westes at earthbroadcast.com

    >
    > The problem is that you're looking for a solution that isn't

    used in
    > commodity environments. Your $900 "sweet spot" doesn't make

    sense. The
    > clients that would invest in such a system need to invest in FC

    host
    > adapters that are around $900 each and a switch of $5000, just

    to get
    > connected.
    >
    > If you're looking at creating a block-device SAN-like solution,

    try iSCSI
    > software clients and a SATA-based iSCSI target server. I

    believe there's a
    > Linux iSCSI target server that you can use, or you may even

    want to check
    > out Novell Netware 6.5 with it's iSCSI target implementation.
    >
    > Rob
    >
    >




  8. Re: Exposing Windows 2000 Direct Attach Storage Upstream as Fibre Channel

    Contrary to your comments FC Target mode implementations are very
    complex. They represent a significant part of the development cost of
    the solutions that provide them.

    Products that have them are just not available in the price range you
    are talking about.


    On Tue, 8 Mar 2005 13:54:59 -0800, "Will"
    wrote:

    >$900 for the host adapter.
    >$2500 for the head end
    >Around $6000 for the drives
    >The host adapter can just direct connect to the head end or go
    >through a cheap fibre hub ($200)
    >
    >To do this with an existing Windows 200x Server:
    >
    >$900 for the host adapter
    >$1000 for the JBOD drive cabinet
    >$2000 for the server (storage server)
    >$1000 for Veritas Volume Manager
    >$6000 for the drives.
    >
    >Now I have to pay $2600 more for software to expose the LUN?
    >I'm looking for something that should be a $300 option for
    >Veritas' software. Paying $2600 for it makes it more expensive
    >than buying external hardware that shrink wraps the whole
    >solution. I think $2600 is very greedy for something that is
    >not so complex and doesn't have a chance of surviving long term
    >as a product on its own. It's clear to me that Veritas will
    >eventually hear this customer requirement and subsume it into the
    >Storage Foundation.



  9. Re: Exposing Windows 2000 Direct Attach Storage Upstream as Fibre Channel

    "Will" wrote in message
    news:8uednb6a4pqugrPfRVn-vw@giganews.com...
    > $900 for the host adapter.
    > $2500 for the head end
    > Around $6000 for the drives
    > The host adapter can just direct connect to the head end or go
    > through a cheap fibre hub ($200)
    >
    > To do this with an existing Windows 200x Server:
    >
    > $900 for the host adapter
    > $1000 for the JBOD drive cabinet
    > $2000 for the server (storage server)
    > $1000 for Veritas Volume Manager
    > $6000 for the drives.
    >
    > Now I have to pay $2600 more for software to expose the LUN?
    > I'm looking for something that should be a $300 option for
    > Veritas' software. Paying $2600 for it makes it more expensive
    > than buying external hardware that shrink wraps the whole
    > solution. I think $2600 is very greedy for something that is
    > not so complex and doesn't have a chance of surviving long term
    > as a product on its own. It's clear to me that Veritas will
    > eventually hear this customer requirement and subsume it into the
    > Storage Foundation.
    >
    > --
    > Will
    > Internet: westes at earthbroadcast.com
    >


    I very much doubt Veritas will ever get their licensing structure in line
    with what you would like to see. If you've ever seen the full version of a
    Veritas price list you'll know what I mean.

    In stead of bickering about the cost of the software, can you take one step
    back and explain what exactly it is that you're trying to accomplish? Your
    message suggests you are trying to morph a Windows 2000 server into a FC
    target, just to attach a single client to it? What is this client supposed
    to do that it must use Fibre Channel? What do you need Veritas Volume
    Manager for?

    In other words, "What's your problem?!?" ;-)

    Rob



  10. Re: Exposing Windows 2000 Direct Attach Storage Upstream as Fibre Channel

    I'm actually working on two different projects at the same time:

    1) Multi terabyte backup to disk, later migrated to tape. I would like to
    figure out the lowest cost way to do this, and I think serial ATA is
    probably hard to beat just because the price of the disk typically makes up
    most of the cost of the array and per MB the cost on Serial ATA is low. I
    do not want to put a serial ATA RAID controller in the Windows server that
    needs to access the large logical volume.

    2) Replace an existing IDE RAID to fiber solution with a technology more
    suited to a large multi-user application. I think fibre drives are a good
    fit, and it is just a question of whether to access those as fibre JBOD and
    do the RAID 1+0 or RAID 5 management on Windows 2000 using Veritas, or to
    get a standalone array solution like Dell CX. Since I don't have a
    requirement for multi-host access to the storage, managing the RAID right at
    the server probably meets with most of the important requirements.

    After making sure we meet the technical requirements for numbers of
    concurrent users/processes and number of simultaneous I/Os, etc, the main
    decision criteria is cost. The fact is there is no budget at all for this
    activity. If I can piece together a technically correct solution from
    parts that costs 1/2 of what the shrink-wrap one-vendor-provides-everything
    solution, I know the 1/2-cost solution is going to win. I'm going to take
    the time to measure actual throughput on the system and make sure it meets
    requirements from the start, which in the case of 2) above is clearly not
    something that was done before. Someone had the bright idea of putting an
    IDE RAID storage system as the main storage for a heavily used multi-user
    database. It's not going to be hard to improve on that.

    --
    Will


    "Rob Turk" <_wipe_me_r.turk@chello.nl> wrote in message
    news:422e9edc$0$1736$e4fe514c@dreader20.news.xs4al l.nl...
    > I very much doubt Veritas will ever get their licensing structure in line
    > with what you would like to see. If you've ever seen the full version of a
    > Veritas price list you'll know what I mean.
    >
    > In stead of bickering about the cost of the software, can you take one

    step
    > back and explain what exactly it is that you're trying to accomplish? Your
    > message suggests you are trying to morph a Windows 2000 server into a FC
    > target, just to attach a single client to it? What is this client supposed
    > to do that it must use Fibre Channel? What do you need Veritas Volume
    > Manager for?
    >
    > In other words, "What's your problem?!?" ;-)
    >
    > Rob
    >
    >




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