Solaris x86 11/06 , fragmentation & I/O problem, HP DL380 g5, Help !! Thank you - Solaris

This is a discussion on Solaris x86 11/06 , fragmentation & I/O problem, HP DL380 g5, Help !! Thank you - Solaris ; Dear all, Allthough, we successfully installed solaris 10 x86 ver 11/06 , on a HP 380 g5 with p400 smartarray card and SAS 72Gb disks. The problem is that from the beginning fsck displays a file fragmentation much higher than ...

+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Solaris x86 11/06 , fragmentation & I/O problem, HP DL380 g5, Help !! Thank you

  1. Solaris x86 11/06 , fragmentation & I/O problem, HP DL380 g5, Help !! Thank you

    Dear all,

    Allthough, we successfully installed solaris 10 x86 ver 11/06 , on a
    HP 380 g5 with p400 smartarray card and SAS 72Gb disks.
    The problem is that from the beginning fsck displays a file
    fragmentation much higher than usual ( 1.8 % and up ), doing Oracle
    import is very slow ( much more slower than Solaris 9 + DL 380g3 ) and
    the worse is that our database after few days become corrupted. We try
    to find some clue about what's going on without success. Do you also
    have the same fragmentation and corruption issue with solaris 10x86 ??
    Any advice ???

    Thanks

    Steven


  2. Re: Solaris x86 11/06 , fragmentation & I/O problem, HP DL380 g5, Help !! Thank you

    On Jun 29, 2:04 pm, and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel)
    wrote:
    > In article <1183087822.982005.276...@i38g2000prf.googlegroups. com>,
    > fdouts...@gmail.com writes:
    >
    > > Dear all,

    >
    > > Allthough, we successfully installed solaris 10 x86 ver 11/06 , on a
    > > HP 380 g5 with p400 smartarray card and SAS 72Gb disks.
    > > The problem is that from the beginning fsck displays a file
    > > fragmentation much higher than usual ( 1.8 % and up ), doing Oracle
    > > import is very slow ( much more slower than Solaris 9 + DL 380g3 ) and
    > > the worse is that our database after few days become corrupted. We try
    > > to find some clue about what's going on without success. Do you also
    > > have the same fragmentation and corruption issue with solaris 10x86 ??

    >
    > The fragmentation reported by fsck is an absolutely normal feature
    > of ufs. It is an indication of the number of files which are sharing
    > a fragmented ufs block in order to avoid wasting a whole ufs block
    > when they don't need that much disk space. It does not have anything
    > to do with fragmented allocation layout.
    >
    > When/why is fcsk being run?
    >
    > --
    > Andrew Gabriel
    > [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]


    Hi andrew,

    Thanks a lot for your update, the point is that even we applied latest
    patch from HP and SUN ( we have 3 servers in the same bad condition ),
    the IO are very slow ( compare to solaris9 + dl380 g3 ) and day by
    day hard disks conditions are deteriorating ( our database is
    corrupted with bad blocks every 2/3 days, corrupted tables seems the
    one with the largest volume of Data and the largest IO ).
    I am quite puzzled because i cannot find a lot of post about these
    issues and i guess i am not the only one using HP G5 with solaris 10 !
    ( we did the default installation ).
    We tried to create a file partition using ZFS , IO seems faster ( but
    not exceptionnal ), so i am very wondering that an incompatibilty
    issue still exists between HP and Solaris 10 , or pehaps it is the SAS
    hard disk format that is not well managed by solaris....still very
    very wondering what's going on ! :-)

    Steven


  3. Re: Solaris x86 11/06 , fragmentation & I/O problem, HP DL380 g5, Help !! Thank you

    fdoutside@gmail.com wrote:
    > Thanks a lot for your update, the point is that even we applied latest
    > patch from HP and SUN ( we have 3 servers in the same bad condition ),
    > the IO are very slow ( compare to solaris9 + dl380 g3 ) and day by


    What does iostat tell you? Is Oracle configured to do use directio?

    Have you run any benchmarks using a tool such as Bonnie++?

    I suspect he wanted to know when you're running fsck in order to establish
    whether or not you're running fsck against an in-use filesystem, which might
    account for data corruption.

    --
    Brandon Hume - hume -> BOFH.Ca, http://WWW.BOFH.Ca/

  4. Re: Solaris x86 11/06 , fragmentation & I/O problem, HP DL380 g5, Help !! Thank you

    I had a problem quite similar to yours.
    Please mount the file system (ufs) without caching. I had similar
    issues with EMC storages, they do not work good with FS cahcing
    enabled, Maybe this is also the case here.
    Hope it helps.
    Kind regards.

    On Jun 29, 6:30 am, fdouts...@gmail.com wrote:
    > Dear all,
    >
    > Allthough, we successfully installed solaris 10 x86 ver 11/06 , on a
    > HP 380 g5 with p400 smartarray card and SAS 72Gb disks.
    > The problem is that from the beginning fsck displays a file
    > fragmentation much higher than usual ( 1.8 % and up ), doing Oracle
    > import is very slow ( much more slower than Solaris 9 + DL 380g3 ) and
    > the worse is that our database after few days become corrupted. We try
    > to find some clue about what's going on without success. Do you also
    > have the same fragmentation and corruption issue with solaris 10x86 ??
    > Any advice ???
    >
    > Thanks
    >
    > Steven




  5. Re: Solaris x86 11/06 , fragmentation & I/O problem, HP DL380 g5, Help !! Thank you

    On Jun 30, 7:28 am, pavelj wrote:
    > I had a problem quite similar to yours.
    > Please mount the file system (ufs) without caching. I had similar
    > issues with EMC storages, they do not work good with FS cahcing
    > enabled, Maybe this is also the case here.
    > Hope it helps.
    > Kind regards.
    >
    > On Jun 29, 6:30 am, fdouts...@gmail.com wrote:
    >
    > > Dear all,

    >
    > > Allthough, we successfully installed solaris 10 x86 ver 11/06 , on a
    > > HP 380 g5 with p400 smartarray card and SAS 72Gb disks.
    > > The problem is that from the beginning fsck displays a file
    > > fragmentation much higher than usual ( 1.8 % and up ), doing Oracle
    > > import is very slow ( much more slower than Solaris 9 + DL 380g3 ) and
    > > the worse is that our database after few days become corrupted. We try
    > > to find some clue about what's going on without success. Do you also
    > > have the same fragmentation and corruption issue with solaris 10x86 ??
    > > Any advice ???

    >
    > > Thanks

    >
    > > Steven


    Fragmentation can occur on the datablocks in the oracle database.
    Oracle has it's own tools for dealing with this. The fragmentation on
    oracle is totally separate from the OS level. Please get a good
    oracle dba or read the oracle documentation on your version db to see
    how to use their tools. Solaris is also slow compared to linux for
    performance. Version 10 is supposed to be better, but we gave up on
    solaris due to our database vendor (progress) no longer supporting
    their database on solaris x86 (this was after sun declared that they
    would NOT support x86 a few years ago). Sun hurt their customers a
    lot by doing that.

    Good luck,

    Oskar



  6. Re: Solaris x86 11/06 , fragmentation & I/O problem, HP DL380 g5, Help !! Thank you

    On 2 juil, 02:56, "pheoni...@gmail.com" wrote:
    > On Jun 30, 7:28 am, pavelj wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > I had a problem quite similar to yours.
    > > Please mount the file system (ufs) without caching. I had similar
    > > issues with EMC storages, they do not work good with FS cahcing
    > > enabled, Maybe this is also the case here.
    > > Hope it helps.
    > > Kind regards.

    >
    > > On Jun 29, 6:30 am, fdouts...@gmail.com wrote:

    >
    > > > Dear all,

    >
    > > > Allthough, we successfully installed solaris 10 x86 ver 11/06 , on a
    > > > HP 380 g5 with p400 smartarray card and SAS 72Gb disks.
    > > > The problem is that from the beginning fsck displays a file
    > > > fragmentation much higher than usual ( 1.8 % and up ), doing Oracle
    > > > import is very slow ( much more slower than Solaris 9 + DL 380g3 ) and
    > > > the worse is that our database after few days become corrupted. We try
    > > > to find some clue about what's going on without success. Do you also
    > > > have the same fragmentation and corruption issue with solaris 10x86 ??
    > > > Any advice ???

    >
    > > > Thanks

    >
    > > > Steven

    >
    > Fragmentation can occur on the datablocks in the oracle database.
    > Oracle has it's own tools for dealing with this. The fragmentation on
    > oracle is totally separate from the OS level. Please get a good
    > oracle dba or read the oracle documentation on your version db to see
    > how to use their tools. Solaris is also slow compared to linux for
    > performance. Version 10 is supposed to be better, but we gave up on
    > solaris due to our database vendor (progress) no longer supporting
    > their database on solaris x86 (this was after sun declared that they
    > would NOT support x86 a few years ago). Sun hurt their customers a
    > lot by doing that.
    >
    > Good luck,
    >
    > Oskar- Masquer le texte des messages prÚcÚdents -
    >
    > - Afficher le texte des messages prÚcÚdents -


    Dear All,

    Thanks a lot for all your post , i am just back from few days break.
    Yes, we indeed fsck on unmounted disks, the purpose of fsck was to try
    to find a clue about our frag' problem. I will checl you suggestion on
    caching and other Oracle tuning if any. Keep u guys update. Thanks
    again to the community, it rocks !!!


  7. Re: Solaris x86 11/06 , fragmentation & I/O problem, HP DL380 g5, Help !! Thank you


    Dear All,

    We switched from UFS file system to ZFS and things seem to improve a
    bit. So far result of our tests :

    - DL380 G5 / Smart array P400 or P800 + SAS disks = Not OK , ( ZFS or
    UFS )
    - DL380 G5 / Smart array P600 + SAS disks = Not OK with UFS , so far
    seems OK with ZFS

    I guess we are encountering so far some incompatibilty problems with
    smart array P400 / P800 and solaris 10 x86 and also perhaos some
    issues with SAS disk on solaris 10.

    What still amaze me , is the lack of information about this on the web
    ( i cannot believe we are the only one using this particular
    config ! )

    Thanks

    Steven


  8. Re: Solaris x86 11/06 , fragmentation & I/O problem, HP DL380 g5, Help !! Thank you

    fdoutside@gmail.com wrote:
    > We switched from UFS file system to ZFS and things seem to improve a
    > bit. So far result of our tests :


    I'd still be a bit worried... just because ZFS might be correcting/rebuilding
    corruption on the fly doesn't mean it isn't happening. I'd also be nervous
    about running Oracle on ZFS, which is just a bit too new (and I've heard of
    plenty of performance problems with the combo, as well).

    I'd really recommend allocating a chunk of disk space, and running some
    filesystem performance tools like Bonnie++, and perhaps the analysis and
    verification options in the format tool.

    > What still amaze me , is the lack of information about this on the web
    > ( i cannot believe we are the only one using this particular
    > config ! )


    Solaris x86 is still recovering from previous Sun neglect. You might also
    be in the odd middle ground between "cheap" (Linux on x86) and "serious"
    (Solaris on SPARC).

    --
    Brandon Hume - hume -> BOFH.Ca, http://WWW.BOFH.Ca/

  9. Re: Solaris x86 11/06 , fragmentation & I/O problem, HP DL380 g5, Help !! Thank you

    On Jul 4, 8:43 am, hume.spamfil...@bofh.ca wrote:
    > fdouts...@gmail.com wrote:
    > > We switched from UFS file system to ZFS and things seem to improve a
    > > bit. So far result of our tests :

    >
    > I'd still be a bit worried... just because ZFS might be correcting/rebuilding
    > corruption on the fly doesn't mean it isn't happening. I'd also be nervous
    > about running Oracle on ZFS, which is just a bit too new (and I've heard of
    > plenty of performance problems with the combo, as well).
    >
    > I'd really recommend allocating a chunk of disk space, and running some
    > filesystem performance tools like Bonnie++, and perhaps the analysis and
    > verification options in the format tool.
    >
    > > What still amaze me , is the lack of information about this on the web
    > > ( i cannot believe we are the only one using this particular
    > > config ! )

    >
    > Solaris x86 is still recovering from previous Sun neglect. You might also
    > be in the odd middle ground between "cheap" (Linux on x86) and "serious"
    > (Solaris on SPARC).
    >
    > --
    > Brandon Hume - hume -> BOFH.Ca,http://WWW.BOFH.Ca/


    Like I said before, we got out of solaris due to lack of support
    (progress database) and poor performance on x86. Linux is far
    superior in performance on x86 boxes. since you have HP servers, Suse
    or redhat work much better on HP servers. CentOS is a clone of redhat
    enterprise that is free. We use suse a lot (great admin tools, far
    better than solaris or redhat), suse runs awesome on HP servers and
    has excellent driver support. Suse also has excellent support from
    Novell. Speaking about vendor support, did you get the support
    contract from Sun? This would be a great time to call them. They
    also have very good support.

    It looks like your company is spending serious $$$ on this database,
    why risk running it on a flaky system? Solaris x86 has always had
    poor support when it comes to hardware/drivers. In regards to admin
    tools, Suse and Apple are far ahead of anyone else. Both make it easy
    to work on unix/linux. When was the last time you saw that?

    Good luck,

    Oskar



  10. Re: Solaris x86 11/06 , fragmentation & I/O problem, HP DL380 g5, Help !! Thank you

    On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 19:33:36 -0700, pheonix1t@gmail.com
    wrote:
    >
    > Like I said before, we got out of solaris due to lack of support
    > (progress database) and poor performance on x86. Linux is far
    > superior in performance on x86 boxes. since you have HP servers, Suse


    Please post some proof of this superior performance. Until you do, I
    don't believe a word of this claim.

    From what I've read, Solaris 10 performs well on multicore x64. I can
    well imagine that on old 32bit hardware Linux performs better.

    As for HP, my current experience says 'don't touch them with a
    bargepole'.

    > It looks like your company is spending serious $$$ on this database,
    > why risk running it on a flaky system? Solaris x86 has always had
    > poor support when it comes to hardware/drivers.


    I've never had any problems with my hardware.

    > In regards to admin
    > tools, Suse and Apple are far ahead of anyone else. Both make it easy
    > to work on unix/linux. When was the last time you saw that?


    Eh? I'm writing this on a Mac, and other than the dialog boxes being a
    bit prettier, it was no easier to set up.

    A bientot
    Paul


  11. Re: Solaris x86 11/06 , fragmentation & I/O problem, HP DL380 g5,Help !! Thank you

    I've just had my second glass of wine.
    Iv'e been an oracle DBA for 12 years.
    Look you are all talking rubbish.
    Solaris performance is really hot and linux is horrid to administer.
    But the orginal post is about an import.
    the import of data is not a real test. of performance
    if your import is slow look at the commit rate and buffers size and the
    striping of disks( spread the I/O load).
    the operating system really shouldn't be getting in the way. it should
    be a load to hardware thing. so you should be looking at the io rates.
    remembering that the commit has to happen and write a header to all
    datafiles.
    so increase the number of rows processed before the commit. ( its a
    classic problem)
    Again HP gear is beautfully built as is sun just get the db processing
    right.
    Cheers Hope That helps


    Paul Floyd wrote:
    > On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 19:33:36 -0700, pheonix1t@gmail.com
    > wrote:
    >
    >> Like I said before, we got out of solaris due to lack of support
    >> (progress database) and poor performance on x86. Linux is far
    >> superior in performance on x86 boxes. since you have HP servers, Suse
    >>

    >
    > Please post some proof of this superior performance. Until you do, I
    > don't believe a word of this claim.
    >
    > From what I've read, Solaris 10 performs well on multicore x64. I can
    > well imagine that on old 32bit hardware Linux performs better.
    >
    > As for HP, my current experience says 'don't touch them with a
    > bargepole'.
    >
    >
    >> It looks like your company is spending serious $$$ on this database,
    >> why risk running it on a flaky system? Solaris x86 has always had
    >> poor support when it comes to hardware/drivers.
    >>

    >
    > I've never had any problems with my hardware.
    >
    >
    >> In regards to admin
    >> tools, Suse and Apple are far ahead of anyone else. Both make it easy
    >> to work on unix/linux. When was the last time you saw that?
    >>

    >
    > Eh? I'm writing this on a Mac, and other than the dialog boxes being a
    > bit prettier, it was no easier to set up.
    >
    > A bientot
    > Paul
    >
    >


  12. Re: Solaris x86 11/06 , fragmentation & I/O problem, HP DL380 g5, Help !! Thank you

    On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 20:16:47 GMT, Mike Duffy wrote:
    > Again HP gear is beautfully built as is sun just get the db processing
    > right.


    It may be so, but sadly here their service is so bad that they seem to
    be incapable of delivering what I ordered.

    Honestly, I wish I'd ordered a Dell.

    A bientot
    Paul


  13. Re: Solaris x86 11/06 , fragmentation & I/O problem, HP DL380 g5, Help !! Thank you

    On Jul 5, 3:31 pm, Paul Floyd wrote:
    > On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 20:16:47 GMT, Mike Duffy wrote:
    > > Again HP gear is beautfully built as is sun just get the db processing
    > > right.

    >
    > It may be so, but sadly here their service is so bad that they seem to
    > be incapable of delivering what I ordered.
    >
    > Honestly, I wish I'd ordered a Dell.
    >
    > A bientot
    > Paul


    Mr DBA (previous post), thank you. If you look at MY previous posts,
    I suggested that the poster talk with or get an oracle dba to look at
    this.
    As for Paul, I'd love to post performance tests but public ones are
    rare to come by since vendors make it illegal to make performance
    tests public without their consent.

    I've worked in IT for 16 years (hpux was my first unix at work, then
    solaris). If you've never seen suse, please don't say anything about
    it, it only make you look foolish. The admin tools from suse are much
    better than just about anything else on the market. Sun hasn't
    improved the management tools in YEARS.
    When I mention apple I'm talking about their servers. Again, if
    you've never worked on them please don't dismiss what I'm saying.

    solaris on x86 has always been poor in performance. It got better for
    version 10, but not as fast as linux. I've run suse and solaris 10 on
    same hardware, suse is faster by a long shot on simple things (users
    doing queries on database, samba file transfers, apache web sites
    working faster). If it does this better, the hard stuff would only be
    better too (keep in mind, this is on same hardware).

    I like sun, but their support on x86 has not been consistent and it
    shows. The place I work at just bought $15k HP server that was a
    better server than anything sun had for same price. $15k isn't
    enterprise class server, but for small/medium business this is a hefty
    sum. i did my research. We also (due to progress) had to look at
    other choices.

    Dell has been a bad experience everywhere I've had to work with it.
    One place (in 2004) bough 650 workstations and 12 servers. All 12
    servers had recall due to main boards burning up and smoking heavily!
    Imagine sites across country starting to call within 6 weeks saying
    all the servers are burning!

    workstations weren't much better, in less than 8 months more than half
    of the workstations had cdroms, disks or mainboards that went bad.

    I was amazed by it. But they are the cheapest....this showed me you
    get what you pay for.

    Anyway, mr DBA is the one who we should be paying attention to!

    cheers mr DBA







  14. Re: Solaris x86 11/06 , fragmentation & I/O problem, HP DL380 g5, Help !! Thank you

    On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 19:03:33 -0700, pheonix1t@gmail.com
    wrote:
    > On Jul 5, 3:31 pm, Paul Floyd wrote:
    >> On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 20:16:47 GMT, Mike Duffy wrote:
    >> > Again HP gear is beautfully built as is sun just get the db processing
    >> > right.

    >>
    >> It may be so, but sadly here their service is so bad that they seem to
    >> be incapable of delivering what I ordered.
    >>
    >> Honestly, I wish I'd ordered a Dell.

    >
    > Mr DBA (previous post), thank you. If you look at MY previous posts,
    > I suggested that the poster talk with or get an oracle dba to look at
    > this.
    > As for Paul, I'd love to post performance tests but public ones are
    > rare to come by since vendors make it illegal to make performance
    > tests public without their consent.
    >
    > I've worked in IT for 16 years (hpux was my first unix at work, then
    > solaris). If you've never seen suse, please don't say anything about
    > it, it only make you look foolish. The admin tools from suse are much


    I have used SUSE, though not recently. I didn't find it significantly
    easier to install than Solaris. The trickiest thing on Solaris, for me,
    was getting a networked PCL printer to work. That could have been
    easier, I must admit.

    > better than just about anything else on the market. Sun hasn't
    > improved the management tools in YEARS.


    There were significant changes in Solaris 10. In particular to the
    services.

    > When I mention apple I'm talking about their servers. Again, if
    > you've never worked on them please don't dismiss what I'm saying.


    Never used an Apple server, not even seen one. I have a Mac portable.
    Don't imagine that we'll ever have anything from Apple at work, ever.

    > solaris on x86 has always been poor in performance. It got better for
    > version 10, but not as fast as linux. I've run suse and solaris 10 on
    > same hardware, suse is faster by a long shot on simple things (users
    > doing queries on database, samba file transfers, apache web sites
    > working faster). If it does this better, the hard stuff would only be
    > better too (keep in mind, this is on same hardware).


    I'm not involved with databases, I'm a software developer. Perhaps Linux
    is handicapped by the slowness of GCC and GNU binutils, but on the same
    hardware, compiling/linking on Solaris is generally faster than on
    Linux.

    [Dell horror stories]

    We have perhaps 50 Dell workstations at work. Nothing much to report
    about them. My beef with HP is that they seem to choose the cheapest
    subcontractors for their distribution, and they don't do a very good
    job. But they finally seem to be getting their act together.

    A bientot
    Paul


  15. Re: Solaris x86 11/06 , fragmentation & I/O problem, HP DL380 g5, Help !! Thank you

    I couldn't help digging this one up.

    gcc uses /tmp which is ram on Solaris, disk in Linux.

    Quote Originally Posted by unix View Post
    On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 19:03:33 -0700, pheonix1t@gmail.com
    I'm not involved with databases, I'm a software developer. Perhaps Linux
    is handicapped by the slowness of GCC and GNU binutils, but on the same
    hardware, compiling/linking on Solaris is generally faster than on
    Linux.

+ Reply to Thread