Why does anyone run Linux, when Solaris is open source? - Solaris

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Thread: Why does anyone run Linux, when Solaris is open source?

  1. Why does anyone run Linux, when Solaris is open source?


  2. Re: Why does anyone run Linux, when Solaris is open source?

    On Feb 19, 1:58 pm, inva...@example.net wrote:
    > Why not run both?
    >
    > How to install Sun Solaris 10 inside VMware Workstation 5.5:



    Why bother with VMware? You can run Linux in a Solaris zone if you
    like...


  3. Re: Why does anyone run Linux, when Solaris is open source?

    On Monday 19 February 2007 13:24 Thommy M. wrote:

    > On Feb 19, 1:58 pm, inva...@example.net wrote:
    >> Why not run both?
    >>
    >> How to install Sun Solaris 10 inside VMware Workstation 5.5:

    >
    >
    > Why bother with VMware? You can run Linux in a Solaris zone if you
    > like...


    Can you install Solaris like you would a Linux distro, and multi-boot?


  4. Re: Why does anyone run Linux, when Solaris is open source?

    invalid@example.net wrote:

    >
    >
    >
    > Why not run both?
    >


    Why bother?
    Linux is way ahead of Solaris, especially in supported hardware
    --
    We may not return the affection of those who like us,
    but we always respect their good judgement.


  5. Re: Why does anyone run Linux, when Solaris is open source?




    Thommy M. wrote:
    >
    >inva...@example.net wrote:
    >
    >> Why not run both?
    >>
    >> How to install Sun Solaris 10 inside VMware Workstation 5.5:

    >
    >Why bother with VMware? You can run Linux in a Solaris zone
    >if you like...


    The above caught my interest... I use Linux and Windows under
    VMWare, and my initial reaction was "why not run Solaris as well?
    actually using it seems like a good way to see if it's better
    for my needs than what I am using now." Seeing the above led me
    to a web search, where I found:

    "A Solaris Zone is a partitioned virtual OS environment
    working in a Solaris OS space."

    ....with much more info here:
    http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/zones/

    This raises the interesting possibility of running Open Source
    Solaris and Solaris Zones as the host OS and virtualization
    software, replacing Linux/Windows and VMWare Workstation.

    Alas, if the FAQ at the above website is correct, you *can't*
    run Linux or Windows in a Solaris zone. It says:

    Q: Are containers like VMware?
    A: They are only vaguely similar. Both technologies are very
    useful for consolidating servers. However, the basic model
    is different: Containers form isolated application
    environments that share one OS instance, while VMware hosts
    multiple OS instances. The differences also include:

    Containers are only available for Solaris 10. VMware
    supports Solaris, Microsoft Windows and Linux clients,
    simultaneously.

    So, Solaris experts, is Thommy M. wrong or is the FAQ wrong?


    Guy Macon



  6. Re: Why does anyone run Linux, when Solaris is open source?

    On Feb 19, 3:23 pm, Guy Macon wrote:
    > Thommy M. wrote:

    [...]
    >
    > So, Solaris experts, is Thommy M. wrong or is the FAQ wrong?


    Google for brandz


  7. Re: Why does anyone run Linux, when Solaris is open source?




    Thommy M. wrote:
    >
    >Guy Macon wrote:
    >>
    >>Thommy M. wrote:
    >>>
    >>>Why bother with VMware? You can run Linux in a Solaris zone
    >>>if you like...

    >>
    >>The above caught my interest... I use Linux and Windows under
    >>VMWare, and my initial reaction was "why not run Solaris as well?
    >>actually using it seems like a good way to see if it's better
    >>for my needs than what I am using now." Seeing the above led me
    >>to a web search, where I found:
    >>
    >> "A Solaris Zone is a partitioned virtual OS environment
    >> working in a Solaris OS space."
    >>
    >>...with much more info here:
    >>http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/zones/
    >>
    >>This raises the interesting possibility of running Open Source
    >>Solaris and Solaris Zones as the host OS and virtualization
    >>software, replacing Linux/Windows and VMWare Workstation.
    >>
    >>Alas, if the FAQ at the above website is correct, you *can't*
    >>run Linux or Windows in a Solaris zone. It says:
    >>
    >> Q: Are containers like VMware?
    >> A: They are only vaguely similar. Both technologies are very
    >> useful for consolidating servers. However, the basic model
    >> is different: Containers form isolated application
    >> environments that share one OS instance, while VMware hosts
    >> multiple OS instances. The differences also include:
    >>
    >> Containers are only available for Solaris 10. VMware
    >> supports Solaris, Microsoft Windows and Linux clients,
    >> simultaneously.
    >>
    >>So, Solaris experts, is Thommy M. wrong or is the FAQ wrong?
    >>

    >
    >Google for brandz


    Ah. That clears things up.

    "BrandZ is a framework that extends the Solaris Zones
    infrastructure to create Branded Zones, which are
    zones that contain non-native operating environments.

    "Each operating environment is provided by a brand
    that plugs into the BrandZ framework. A brand may
    be as simple as an environment with the standard
    Solaris utilities replaced by their GNU equivalents,
    or as complex as a complete Linux userspace.

    "The lx brand enables Linux binary applications to
    run unmodified on Solaris, within zones running a
    complete Linux userspace. The combination of BrandZ
    and the lx brand will be productized as Solaris
    Containers for Linux Applications.

    "The lx brand is not a Linux distribution and does
    not contain any Linux software at all. The lx brand
    enables user-level Linux software to run on a machine
    with a Solaris kernel"


    So the answer to Thommy M's question ("Why bother with VMware?
    You can run Linux in a Solaris zone if you like...") is this:

    VMWare lets you run Linux, Solaris, BSD, Windows, QNX, DOS, etc.
    on the same PC at the same time. Solaris Zones, don't even let
    you run Linux, much less Windows or the others. Solaris Zones
    combined with BrandZ and the lx brand appears to be a good
    solution to the problem of running Linux applications under
    Solaris, but it was never meant to be an alternative to VMWare.


    Guy Macon



  8. Re: Why does anyone run Linux, when Solaris is open source?

    On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 12:58:43 +0000, invalid wrote:

    >
    >
    >
    > Why not run both?
    >
    > How to install Sun Solaris 10 inside VMware Workstation 5.5:
    >
    > http://www.virtualization.info/2005/...10-inside.html
    >
    > http://www.virtualization.info/lab/H...tion%205.5.pdf
    >
    > http://pubs.vmware.com/guestnotes/ww...solaris10.html


    I ordered the DVD set from Solaris on January 15, 2007. I received a
    confirmation e-mail that I would have it withing 10 days. Checked with
    them on Feb 15 and they indicated there had been a manufacturing delay, I
    should have them in two weeks. Still not here.

    Frankly, I don't feel like downloading the stuff to try. If they ever
    ship, then I'll give it a try; but if this is an example of their
    corporate support . . .

    Until then, I cannot comment on ease of install, compatibility, ease of
    use, all of which would be of concern to me.


  9. Re: Why does anyone run Linux, when Solaris is open source?

    On 2007-02-19 14:44:47 +0000, Guy Macon said:

    > So the answer to Thommy M's question ("Why bother with VMware?
    > You can run Linux in a Solaris zone if you like...") is this:
    >
    > VMWare lets you run Linux, Solaris, BSD, Windows, QNX, DOS, etc.
    > on the same PC at the same time. Solaris Zones, don't even let
    > you run Linux, much less Windows or the others. Solaris Zones
    > combined with BrandZ and the lx brand appears to be a good
    > solution to the problem of running Linux applications under
    > Solaris, but it was never meant to be an alternative to VMWare.


    Also note that the lx brand only emulates a Linux 2.4.x kernel.

    Cheers,

    Chris


  10. Re: Why does anyone run Linux, when Solaris is open source?

    Guy Macon wrote:
    > Thommy M. wrote:
    >> Guy Macon wrote:
    >>> Thommy M. wrote:
    >>>> Why bother with VMware? You can run Linux in a Solaris zone
    >>>> if you like...
    >>> The above caught my interest... I use Linux and Windows under
    >>> VMWare, and my initial reaction was "why not run Solaris as well?
    >>> actually using it seems like a good way to see if it's better
    >>> for my needs than what I am using now." Seeing the above led me
    >>> to a web search, where I found:
    >>>
    >>> "A Solaris Zone is a partitioned virtual OS environment
    >>> working in a Solaris OS space."
    >>>
    >>> ...with much more info here:
    >>> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/zones/
    >>>
    >>> This raises the interesting possibility of running Open Source
    >>> Solaris and Solaris Zones as the host OS and virtualization
    >>> software, replacing Linux/Windows and VMWare Workstation.
    >>>
    >>> Alas, if the FAQ at the above website is correct, you *can't*
    >>> run Linux or Windows in a Solaris zone. It says:
    >>>
    >>> Q: Are containers like VMware?
    >>> A: They are only vaguely similar. Both technologies are very
    >>> useful for consolidating servers. However, the basic model
    >>> is different: Containers form isolated application
    >>> environments that share one OS instance, while VMware hosts
    >>> multiple OS instances. The differences also include:
    >>>
    >>> Containers are only available for Solaris 10. VMware
    >>> supports Solaris, Microsoft Windows and Linux clients,
    >>> simultaneously.
    >>>
    >>> So, Solaris experts, is Thommy M. wrong or is the FAQ wrong?
    >>>

    >> Google for brandz

    >
    > Ah. That clears things up.
    >
    > "BrandZ is a framework that extends the Solaris Zones
    > infrastructure to create Branded Zones, which are
    > zones that contain non-native operating environments.
    >
    > "Each operating environment is provided by a brand
    > that plugs into the BrandZ framework. A brand may
    > be as simple as an environment with the standard
    > Solaris utilities replaced by their GNU equivalents,
    > or as complex as a complete Linux userspace.
    >
    > "The lx brand enables Linux binary applications to
    > run unmodified on Solaris, within zones running a
    > complete Linux userspace. The combination of BrandZ
    > and the lx brand will be productized as Solaris
    > Containers for Linux Applications.
    >
    > "The lx brand is not a Linux distribution and does
    > not contain any Linux software at all. The lx brand
    > enables user-level Linux software to run on a machine
    > with a Solaris kernel"
    >
    >
    > So the answer to Thommy M's question ("Why bother with VMware?
    > You can run Linux in a Solaris zone if you like...") is this:
    >
    > VMWare lets you run Linux, Solaris, BSD, Windows, QNX, DOS, etc.
    > on the same PC at the same time. Solaris Zones, don't even let
    > you run Linux, much less Windows or the others. Solaris Zones
    > combined with BrandZ and the lx brand appears to be a good
    > solution to the problem of running Linux applications under
    > Solaris, but it was never meant to be an alternative to VMWare.
    >
    >
    > Guy Macon
    >
    >


    As I said, why bother. There is Solaris.



  11. Re: Why does anyone run Linux, when Solaris is open source?

    Guy Macon wrote:

    > VMWare lets you run Linux, Solaris, BSD, Windows, QNX, DOS, etc.
    > on the same PC at the same time. Solaris Zones, don't even let
    > you run Linux, much less Windows or the others. Solaris Zones
    > combined with BrandZ and the lx brand appears to be a good
    > solution to the problem of running Linux applications under
    > Solaris, but it was never meant to be an alternative to VMWare.


    Alternative to VMware is xen, but why bother? There is Solaris.

  12. Re: Why does anyone run Linux, when Solaris is open source?

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy Thommy M. wrote:
    >
    > As I said, why bother. There is Solaris.


    Some would say the same about Windows... why bother. There is Linux.



    Thad


  13. Re: Why does anyone run Linux, when Solaris is open source?

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy Thommy M. wrote:
    >
    > Alternative to VMware is xen, but why bother? There is Solaris.


    Maybe because Solaris sucks rocks through a garden hose on anything
    but massive multi-processor systems? Seriously, there is a reason
    Linux is shoving Solaris farther up market.

    Thad


  14. Re: Why does anyone run Linux, when Solaris is open source?

    On Tue, 20 Feb 2007, thad01@tux.glaci.remove-this.com wrote:

    > Maybe because Solaris sucks rocks through a garden hose on anything
    > but massive multi-processor systems? Seriously, there is a reason
    > Linux is shoving Solaris farther up market.


    Oh, you really believe that old hyperbole? AMD would seem to
    disagree with you:

    http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/...115594,00.html

    I don't think anyone would seriously claim that an AMD Opteron
    Model 2220 SE processor was a "masive multi-processor system".

    If you're a geek who's genuinely interested in technology, you
    owe to yourself to have a look at recent versions of Solaris.
    OTOH, if you're just a Linux fanboy, then by all means carry on
    with your omphaloskepsis.

    --
    Rich Teer, SCSA, SCNA, SCSECA, OpenSolaris CAB member

    President,
    Rite Online Inc.

    Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638
    URL: http://www.rite-group.com/rich

  15. Re: Why does anyone run Linux, when Solaris is open source?

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy Rich Teer wrote:
    > On Tue, 20 Feb 2007, thad01@tux.glaci.remove-this.com wrote:
    >
    >> Maybe because Solaris sucks rocks through a garden hose on anything
    >> but massive multi-processor systems? Seriously, there is a reason
    >> Linux is shoving Solaris farther up market.

    >
    > Oh, you really believe that old hyperbole? AMD would seem to
    > disagree with you:
    >


    So they compare an AMD based system running Solaris with a Intel
    based system running Linux... but is that telling us something
    about the hardware or the operating system. Not a very useful
    comparison really.

    In my experience Solaris underperformed compared to Linux on the
    same hardware, at least on anything up to a 4 processor system.
    If you were running a 128 or 256 massive Sun server, yes, Solaris
    kicked ass. If Sun has finally addressed their performance
    problems on the low end, I salute them, but they will have an
    uphill slog getting that market share back. Linux is free, open,
    performs well, and has a massive developer following.

    Thad


  16. Re: Why does anyone run Linux, when Solaris is open source?

    In article ,
    thad01@tux.glaci.remove-this.com writes:
    > In comp.os.linux.advocacy Rich Teer wrote:
    >> On Tue, 20 Feb 2007, thad01@tux.glaci.remove-this.com wrote:
    >>
    >>> Maybe because Solaris sucks rocks through a garden hose on anything
    >>> but massive multi-processor systems? Seriously, there is a reason
    >>> Linux is shoving Solaris farther up market.

    >>
    >> Oh, you really believe that old hyperbole? AMD would seem to
    >> disagree with you:
    >>

    >
    > So they compare an AMD based system running Solaris with a Intel
    > based system running Linux... but is that telling us something
    > about the hardware or the operating system. Not a very useful
    > comparison really.
    >
    > In my experience Solaris underperformed compared to Linux on the
    > same hardware, at least on anything up to a 4 processor system.
    > If you were running a 128 or 256 massive Sun server, yes, Solaris
    > kicked ass. If Sun has finally addressed their performance
    > problems on the low end, I salute them, but they will have an
    > uphill slog getting that market share back. Linux is free, open,
    > performs well, and has a massive developer following.
    >



    Solaris 10 6/06 vs Fedora Core 6, same hardware (single dual-core CPU):

    http://www.geekpatrol.ca/2006/10/sun...x-performance/


    Took all of about 2 minutes with Google to find that...


    --
    eMail: mailto:rlhamil@smart.net
    Home page: http://www.smart.net/~rlhamil
    MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/yesterdays_geek
    AIM, Yahoo, etc: ask

  17. Re: Why does anyone run Linux, when Solaris is open source?

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy Richard L. Hamilton wrote:
    >
    > Solaris 10 6/06 vs Fedora Core 6, same hardware (single dual-core CPU):
    >
    > http://www.geekpatrol.ca/2006/10/sun...x-performance/


    Interesting comparison. Thanks.

    Thad


  18. Re: Why does anyone run Linux, when Solaris is open source?

    ray wrote:
    > On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 12:58:43 +0000, invalid wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>
    >> Why not run both?
    >>
    >> How to install Sun Solaris 10 inside VMware Workstation 5.5:
    >>
    >> http://www.virtualization.info/2005/...10-inside.html
    >>
    >> http://www.virtualization.info/lab/H...tion%205.5.pdf
    >>
    >> http://pubs.vmware.com/guestnotes/ww...solaris10.html

    >
    > I ordered the DVD set from Solaris on January 15, 2007. I received a
    > confirmation e-mail that I would have it withing 10 days. Checked with
    > them on Feb 15 and they indicated there had been a manufacturing delay, I
    > should have them in two weeks. Still not here.


    Feb 15 + 14 days = 1 Mar

    > Frankly, I don't feel like downloading the stuff to try. If they ever
    > ship, then I'll give it a try; but if this is an example of their
    > corporate support . . .



    I received mine in no time. Maybe the are overloaded with requests...
    However it's worth the wait. In the mean time look into the install pages at

    http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/...ationhowto.jsp

    > Until then, I cannot comment on ease of install, compatibility, ease of
    > use, all of which would be of concern to me.


    It's like an average Linux dist. If you aim for multiboot you better
    read carefully the parts on that. Solaris is not Linux afterall and
    don't expect it to be. There are differences especially on the low level
    like partitioning, disk naming etc. Do the Solaris last and use its GRUB.

  19. Re: Why does anyone run Linux, when Solaris is open source?

    On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 21:17:08 +0000, Thommy M. wrote:

    > ray wrote:
    >> On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 12:58:43 +0000, invalid wrote:
    >>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Why not run both?
    >>>
    >>> How to install Sun Solaris 10 inside VMware Workstation 5.5:
    >>>
    >>> http://www.virtualization.info/2005/...10-inside.html
    >>>
    >>> http://www.virtualization.info/lab/H...tion%205.5.pdf
    >>>
    >>> http://pubs.vmware.com/guestnotes/ww...solaris10.html

    >>
    >> I ordered the DVD set from Solaris on January 15, 2007. I received a
    >> confirmation e-mail that I would have it withing 10 days. Checked with
    >> them on Feb 15 and they indicated there had been a manufacturing delay, I
    >> should have them in two weeks. Still not here.

    >
    > Feb 15 + 14 days = 1 Mar


    That would be correct. It would also be correct that January 15 + 10 days
    should have been January 25 - evidently it was not. Would not have
    bothered me nearly so much if they had sent out a follow up saying "due to
    unprecedented demand, shipping will be delayed by a month".


    >
    >> Frankly, I don't feel like downloading the stuff to try. If they ever
    >> ship, then I'll give it a try; but if this is an example of their
    >> corporate support . . .

    >
    >
    > I received mine in no time. Maybe the are overloaded with requests...
    > However it's worth the wait. In the mean time look into the install pages at
    >
    > http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/...ationhowto.jsp
    >
    >> Until then, I cannot comment on ease of install, compatibility, ease of
    >> use, all of which would be of concern to me.

    >
    > It's like an average Linux dist. If you aim for multiboot you better
    > read carefully the parts on that. Solaris is not Linux afterall and
    > don't expect it to be. There are differences especially on the low level
    > like partitioning, disk naming etc. Do the Solaris last and use its GRUB.



  20. Re: Why does anyone run Linux, when Solaris is open source?

    On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 12:14:49 -0600, Richard L. Hamilton wrote:
    > Solaris 10 6/06 vs Fedora Core 6, same hardware (single dual-core CPU):
    > http://www.geekpatrol.ca/2006/10/sun...x-performance/


    Well, it's actually Solaris 10 with Sun Studio vs Fedora Core 6 with gcc.
    And as the tests appear to be CPU-bound it's more likely to be just
    comparing compilers instead of OSes. I bet the results for Solaris 10 with
    gcc would be pretty similar to Fedora Core with gcc.


    Christof

    --
    http://cmeerw.org sip:cmeerw at cmeerw.org
    mailto:cmeerw at cmeerw.org xmpp:cmeerw at cmeerw.org

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