adding disk - Solaris

This is a discussion on adding disk - Solaris ; Ian Collins wrote: > Cydrome Leader wrote: >> >> If you can point me >> to the sun doc that outlines the steps in my previous post to make sure an >> solaris 10 box for x86 can detect a ...

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Thread: adding disk

  1. Re: adding disk

    Ian Collins wrote:
    > Cydrome Leader wrote:
    >>
    >> If you can point me
    >> to the sun doc that outlines the steps in my previous post to make sure an
    >> solaris 10 box for x86 can detect a drive and then prepare it for use,
    >> please share the link. I haven't located it, neither has any search on the
    >> sun site either.
    >>
    >>

    > http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/819...dd+disk&a=view
    >
    > I must admit it took almost 2 minutes to find.


    That's the garbage document I found as well. It won't get you anywhere at
    all if the disk is not probed or setup correctly/magically.

    My favorite part is this;

    ====
    Steps
    Become superuser.

    Display the current fdisk identifier.
    ====

    That's brilliant, I'll go ahead and do just that. Maybe it should just
    say:

    Become superuser

    setup new disk(s)

    end of task.





  2. Re: adding disk

    Cydrome Leader wrote:
    >
    >>http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/819...dd+disk&a=view
    >>
    >>I must admit it took almost 2 minutes to find.

    >
    >
    > That's the garbage document I found as well. It won't get you anywhere at
    > all if the disk is not probed or setup correctly/magically.
    >
    > My favorite part is this;
    >
    > ====
    > Steps
    > Become superuser.
    >
    > Display the current fdisk identifier.
    > ====
    >
    > That's brilliant, I'll go ahead and do just that. Maybe it should just
    > say:
    >
    > Become superuser
    >
    > setup new disk(s)
    >
    > end of task.
    >

    Did you bother to read on? That section is about changing the fdisk
    identifier and is labelled as optional, not something you will have to
    do on a new disk. Should be moved to the end.

    I think my nine year old could follow the steps outlined in rest of the
    document. Maybe I'll get it a go

    --
    Ian Collins.

  3. Re: adding disk

    Cydrome Leader wrote:
    >>Welcome to PC land.

    >
    >
    > Welcome to unix.


    Oh I've been here for a long time, perhaps too long...

    --
    Ian Collins.

  4. Re: adding disk

    Ian Collins wrote:
    > Cydrome Leader wrote:
    >>
    >>>http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/819...dd+disk&a=view
    >>>
    >>>I must admit it took almost 2 minutes to find.

    >>
    >>
    >> That's the garbage document I found as well. It won't get you anywhere at
    >> all if the disk is not probed or setup correctly/magically.
    >>
    >> My favorite part is this;
    >>
    >> ====
    >> Steps
    >> Become superuser.
    >>
    >> Display the current fdisk identifier.
    >> ====
    >>
    >> That's brilliant, I'll go ahead and do just that. Maybe it should just
    >> say:
    >>
    >> Become superuser
    >>
    >> setup new disk(s)
    >>
    >> end of task.
    >>

    > Did you bother to read on? That section is about changing the fdisk
    > identifier and is labelled as optional, not something you will have to
    > do on a new disk. Should be moved to the end.
    >
    > I think my nine year old could follow the steps outlined in rest of the
    > document. Maybe I'll get it a go


    You should do that. Maybe you can house break them too.

  5. Re: adding disk

    Cydrome Leader wrote:
    >>
    >>I think my nine year old could follow the steps outlined in rest of the
    >>document. Maybe I'll get it a go

    >
    >
    > You should do that. Maybe you can house break them too.


    House break? They're children, not criminals.

    --
    Ian Collins.

  6. Re: adding disk

    Cydrome Leader wrote:
    > Bull****. Sun has horrible docs. You'll notive I don't post to AIX groups
    > asking how to add disks.


    I must admit you're the first one I've ever seen that asked how to add
    disks to a Solaris system.

    > I've never had a problem with SCO, any BSD, Irix, NeXTstep or AIX with
    > adding drives. Since I can handle other past and present unixes just fine,


    Neither have I. In fact IRIX, HP-UX and Solaris are very similar, which
    is not surprising considering all the three of them are true SVR4 POSIX
    operating environments. Sure they have their HW specific commands, but
    that's a narrow subset.

    I don't see where your hangup is. touch /reconfigure, reboot the system,
    and fdisk the disks in question. Run format, slice up the disk(s), and
    use newfs to lay out FileSystems. Simple as that. Why are you
    unnecessarily complicating?

    And, if you really want to avoid rebooting the system, you might either
    want to run `disks` or the `devfsadm` command instead of the `touch
    /reconfigure` part.

    Finally, I'd like to end this article with the following link:

    http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/817...ng+disk&a=view

    or:

    "Solaris 10 System Administrator Collection >> System Administration
    Guide: Devices and File Systems >> 14. x86: Adding a Disk (Tasks)".

  7. Re: adding disk

    Ian Collins wrote:

    > Oh I've been here for a long time, perhaps too long...


    Heh! You know what they say?

    "Once UNIX, always UNIX."

  8. Re: adding disk

    Ian Collins wrote:

    > I must admit it took almost 2 minutes to find.


    (:-)

    47 seconds.

  9. Re: adding disk

    Cydrome Leader wrote:

    > That's the garbage document I found as well. It won't get you anywhere at
    > all if the disk is not probed or setup correctly/magically.
    >
    > My favorite part is this;
    >
    > ====
    > Steps
    > Become superuser.
    >
    > Display the current fdisk identifier.
    > ====
    >
    > That's brilliant, I'll go ahead and do just that. Maybe it should just
    > say:
    >
    > Become superuser
    >
    > setup new disk(s)
    >
    > end of task.


    Why don't you just admit to yourself (and not to us), that you aren't
    jiggy with Solaris, and that you need to sit down, warm up the chair,
    and study some basic concepts, like what it means to `fdisk` a disk
    under Solaris? That's a task I gave my apprentices to do.

    It's 1st level, help desk UNIX support.

  10. Re: adding disk

    Cydrome Leader wrote:
    >> And the online manual pages are a PITA to read.

    >
    > You must be a consultant, fast effective information is not something
    > that's good for your billable time.


    You obviously never read the online manual pages of Solaris. But from your
    previous posts we already know that.


    >> Do yourself and us a favour: Remove Solaris from your machine and unsubscribe
    >> this newsgroup.

    >
    > Won't happen.


    What a pity.

    --
    Daniel

  11. Re: adding disk

    UX-admin wrote:
    > Cydrome Leader wrote:
    >
    >> That's the garbage document I found as well. It won't get you anywhere at
    >> all if the disk is not probed or setup correctly/magically.
    >>
    >> My favorite part is this;
    >>
    >> ====
    >> Steps
    >> Become superuser.
    >>
    >> Display the current fdisk identifier.
    >> ====
    >>
    >> That's brilliant, I'll go ahead and do just that. Maybe it should just
    >> say:
    >>
    >> Become superuser
    >>
    >> setup new disk(s)
    >>
    >> end of task.

    >
    > Why don't you just admit to yourself (and not to us), that you aren't
    > jiggy with Solaris, and that you need to sit down, warm up the chair,
    > and study some basic concepts, like what it means to `fdisk` a disk
    > under Solaris? That's a task I gave my apprentices to do.
    >
    > It's 1st level, help desk UNIX support.


    We can have a show and tell. I'll bring properly written documentation.

  12. Re: adding disk

    UX-admin wrote:
    > Cydrome Leader wrote:
    >> Bull****. Sun has horrible docs. You'll notive I don't post to AIX groups
    >> asking how to add disks.

    >
    > I must admit you're the first one I've ever seen that asked how to add
    > disks to a Solaris system.
    >
    >> I've never had a problem with SCO, any BSD, Irix, NeXTstep or AIX with
    >> adding drives. Since I can handle other past and present unixes just fine,

    >
    > Neither have I. In fact IRIX, HP-UX and Solaris are very similar, which
    > is not surprising considering all the three of them are true SVR4 POSIX
    > operating environments. Sure they have their HW specific commands, but
    > that's a narrow subset.
    >
    > I don't see where your hangup is. touch /reconfigure, reboot the system,
    > and fdisk the disks in question. Run format, slice up the disk(s), and
    > use newfs to lay out FileSystems. Simple as that. Why are you
    > unnecessarily complicating?


    That it didn't work, there's no section about how to list hardware that's
    on your system. This is natually stuff you want to know before you start
    formatting disks. I ask why. Say I want to add 3 disks at once. How do I
    tell them apart? It's one command in AIX, lscfg.

    > And, if you really want to avoid rebooting the system, you might either
    > want to run `disks` or the `devfsadm` command instead of the `touch
    > /reconfigure` part.


    Not in the docs, that people seem to love so much. I ask why. I don't see
    any sections about troubleshooting.

    > Finally, I'd like to end this article with the following link:
    >
    > http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/817...ng+disk&a=view
    >
    > or:
    >
    > "Solaris 10 System Administrator Collection >> System Administration
    > Guide: Devices and File Systems >> 14. x86: Adding a Disk (Tasks)".


    That's the link that started all this.

  13. Re: adding disk

    Cydrome Leader wrote:

    > UX-admin wrote:
    >
    >>Cydrome Leader wrote:
    >>
    >>>Bull****. Sun has horrible docs. You'll notive I don't post to AIX groups
    >>>asking how to add disks.

    >>
    >>I must admit you're the first one I've ever seen that asked how to add
    >>disks to a Solaris system.
    >>
    >>
    >>>I've never had a problem with SCO, any BSD, Irix, NeXTstep or AIX with
    >>>adding drives. Since I can handle other past and present unixes just fine,

    >>
    >>Neither have I. In fact IRIX, HP-UX and Solaris are very similar, which
    >>is not surprising considering all the three of them are true SVR4 POSIX
    >>operating environments. Sure they have their HW specific commands, but
    >>that's a narrow subset.
    >>
    >>I don't see where your hangup is. touch /reconfigure, reboot the system,
    >>and fdisk the disks in question. Run format, slice up the disk(s), and
    >>use newfs to lay out FileSystems. Simple as that. Why are you
    >>unnecessarily complicating?

    >
    >
    > That it didn't work, there's no section about how to list hardware that's
    > on your system. This is natually stuff you want to know before you start
    > formatting disks. I ask why. Say I want to add 3 disks at once. How do I
    > tell them apart? It's one command in AIX, lscfg.
    >
    >
    >>And, if you really want to avoid rebooting the system, you might either
    >>want to run `disks` or the `devfsadm` command instead of the `touch
    >>/reconfigure` part.

    >
    >
    > Not in the docs, that people seem to love so much. I ask why. I don't see
    > any sections about troubleshooting.
    >
    >
    >>Finally, I'd like to end this article with the following link:
    >>
    >>http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/817...ng+disk&a=view
    >>
    >>or:
    >>
    >>"Solaris 10 System Administrator Collection >> System Administration
    >>Guide: Devices and File Systems >> 14. x86: Adding a Disk (Tasks)".

    >
    >
    > That's the link that started all this.


    You could:

    take a class

    read a book

    hire somebody who knows

    ask here (which you apparently did)

    or simply bitch and moan.

    --
    The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
    minimize spam. Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net.

  14. Re: adding disk

    Andrew Gabriel wrote:

    > Minor nit, but HP-UX was based on a SysV source licence much earlier
    > than SVR4. I can't recall exactly which SysV release HP had a source
    > licence for (I have it in some notes at home), but I think it might
    > have been SVR3.0. HP's lack of rights to more recent SysV was the
    > reason HP-UX shipped with such an anchient borne shell for years
    > after it was 'fixed' in SysV (where calling a macro overwrote the
    > shell's $1, $2, $3, etc). I don't know the detailed history of IRIX.


    IRIX has AT & T's SVR4 notices plastered all over the place.
    SGI calls those "boiler plates".


  15. Re: adding disk

    Cydrome Leader wrote:

    > That it didn't work, there's no section about how to list hardware that's
    > on your system. This is natually stuff you want to know before you start
    > formatting disks. I ask why. Say I want to add 3 disks at once. How do I
    > tell them apart? It's one command in AIX, lscfg.


    So it is in Solaris, `cfgadm`. But it works slightly differently from
    AIX. However:

    > Not in the docs, that people seem to love so much. I ask why. I don't see
    > any sections about troubleshooting.


    you know, as a system administrator (obviously you've got some ways to
    go before you get to the system engineer or even sr. system engineer
    level), you should be able to use your brains effectively.

    For example, we know that the `disks` command used to be used to add
    disks on the fly to the system. We know this, right? That's Solaris 101.
    If we don't know this, then we have some reading to do, don't we? Hold
    that thought, we'll get to that.

    `man disks`, as on all good SVR4 systems, has this section labeled

    "SEE ALSO"

    and what does it say there? Well, let's see:

    "SEE ALSO
    add_drv(1M), devfsadm(1M), fdisk(1M), attributes(5),
    isp(7D), devfs(7FS), dkio(7I), attach(9E),
    ddi_create_minor_node(9F)"

    Let's use our brains a little, since being a UNIX system administrator
    requires INTUITION and above all, FEELING.

    It won't be add_drv(1M), since obviously the drivers for the disk
    controller would already be loaded. What else is left? Other topis
    listed are under sections (5), (7D), (7FS), (7I), (9E) and (9F), which
    obviously aren't command sections, and therefore do not come into these
    tales.

    That leaves us with two commands, which, wouldn't you know it, are
    devfsadm(1M) and fdisk(1M). So, now we know without a doubt, those are
    in the (1Maintenance) section.

    What else does the `man` page for `disks(1M)` tell us?

    Well, right at the beginning it says:

    "DESCRIPTION
    devfsadm(1M) is now the preferred command for /dev and
    should be used instead of disks."

    That leaves no doubt as where we should look next.

    But, since your nit spciefically is with docs.sun.com, let us go there
    and see what it has to say about it:

    "Solaris 10 Reference Manual Collection >>
    man pages section 1M: System Administration Commands >>
    System Administration Commands >>
    devfsadm(1M) administration command for /dev"

    http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/816...bb1kq01?a=view

    Apparently, the same thing, which is *everything* an *experienced* UNIX
    system administrator would need. Which is who you claim to be, if I may
    remind you!

    So, what can be concluded, based on empirical evidence, fact, and the
    information you provided?

    We could conclude that you simply aren't experienced with Solaris.
    Additionally, there is information that indicates you are not
    particularly resourceful when it comes to locating readily available
    information. You need to know that this is very bad for a system
    administrator, especially one that would be a UNIX system administrator.

  16. Re: adding disk

    UX-admin wrote:

    : We could conclude that you simply aren't experienced with Solaris.
    : Additionally, there is information that indicates you are not
    : particularly resourceful when it comes to locating readily available
    : information. You need to know that this is very bad for a system
    : administrator, especially one that would be a UNIX system administrator.

    Well in Cydrome Leaders defense and saying this with 10+ years unix
    experience under my belt, Solaris has a more complicated learning curve and
    simply isn't that easy to deal with "by reading the correct man page".

    It's also I think alone in being available for two different platforms
    consistantly (sparc and x86). If you guys were in the sparc camp, some kind
    of dialog about running probe-scsi-all from the OBP (stop-a), which doesn't
    apply to this discussion and yet has extensive coverage in the documentation.

    If anything, my point is that there is too much documentation Sun delivers
    with the product and it's difficult to get yer feet wet if you have no
    experience with it at all. I've seen linux and bsd guys get in a second
    drive by barely touching the keyboard. Solaris just don't play that game.

    Even with documentation in hand, things like "slice 2" of the drive (and why
    it's always assigned) isn't really spelled out, and of course that leads
    into "how can I get more than 7 slices on a disk" which wanders into the
    Disk Management and virtual disks which burns up more time and mucking
    around experimenting.

    So I can see the linux and bsd guys snickering, if they want 16 slices, few
    key strokes later, they have 16. The solaris guys instead print out a 400+
    manual then go through the trial and error setting up metadb, rethinking the
    disk layout, redo metadb then proceed on with actually doing something with
    the disks via metainit and metattach.

    In the end the Solaris guys win out, after going through that ordeal you
    have a flexibility of moving stuff around via mirrors, can have hot spares,
    raids.

    But to give that in the end, it starts out far more complicated and not as
    obvious so I really don't see faulting someone who is trying to cut corners
    and get things rolling.

    It shouldn't be that hard but it is.

    These days I wouldn't think of setting up a Solaris box without the boot
    drive mirrored AND knowing/testing the ability to boot from the mirror, but
    that really isn't what someone just jumps into either.

    -bruce
    bje@ripco.com

  17. Re: adding disk

    CJT wrote:
    > Cydrome Leader wrote:
    >
    >> UX-admin wrote:
    >>
    >>>Cydrome Leader wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>Bull****. Sun has horrible docs. You'll notive I don't post to AIX groups
    >>>>asking how to add disks.
    >>>
    >>>I must admit you're the first one I've ever seen that asked how to add
    >>>disks to a Solaris system.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>I've never had a problem with SCO, any BSD, Irix, NeXTstep or AIX with
    >>>>adding drives. Since I can handle other past and present unixes just fine,
    >>>
    >>>Neither have I. In fact IRIX, HP-UX and Solaris are very similar, which
    >>>is not surprising considering all the three of them are true SVR4 POSIX
    >>>operating environments. Sure they have their HW specific commands, but
    >>>that's a narrow subset.
    >>>
    >>>I don't see where your hangup is. touch /reconfigure, reboot the system,
    >>>and fdisk the disks in question. Run format, slice up the disk(s), and
    >>>use newfs to lay out FileSystems. Simple as that. Why are you
    >>>unnecessarily complicating?

    >>
    >>
    >> That it didn't work, there's no section about how to list hardware that's
    >> on your system. This is natually stuff you want to know before you start
    >> formatting disks. I ask why. Say I want to add 3 disks at once. How do I
    >> tell them apart? It's one command in AIX, lscfg.
    >>
    >>
    >>>And, if you really want to avoid rebooting the system, you might either
    >>>want to run `disks` or the `devfsadm` command instead of the `touch
    >>>/reconfigure` part.

    >>
    >>
    >> Not in the docs, that people seem to love so much. I ask why. I don't see
    >> any sections about troubleshooting.
    >>
    >>
    >>>Finally, I'd like to end this article with the following link:
    >>>
    >>>http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/817...ng+disk&a=view
    >>>
    >>>or:
    >>>
    >>>"Solaris 10 System Administrator Collection >> System Administration
    >>>Guide: Devices and File Systems >> 14. x86: Adding a Disk (Tasks)".

    >>
    >>
    >> That's the link that started all this.

    >
    > You could:
    >
    > take a class
    >
    > read a book
    >
    > hire somebody who knows
    >
    > ask here (which you apparently did)
    >
    > or simply bitch and moan.
    >


    I opted for the last two.

  18. Re: adding disk

    UX-admin wrote:
    > Cydrome Leader wrote:
    >
    >> That it didn't work, there's no section about how to list hardware that's
    >> on your system. This is natually stuff you want to know before you start
    >> formatting disks. I ask why. Say I want to add 3 disks at once. How do I
    >> tell them apart? It's one command in AIX, lscfg.

    >
    > So it is in Solaris, `cfgadm`. But it works slightly differently from
    > AIX. However:
    >
    >> Not in the docs, that people seem to love so much. I ask why. I don't see
    >> any sections about troubleshooting.

    >
    > you know, as a system administrator (obviously you've got some ways to
    > go before you get to the system engineer or even sr. system engineer
    > level), you should be able to use your brains effectively.
    >
    > For example, we know that the `disks` command used to be used to add
    > disks on the fly to the system. We know this, right? That's Solaris 101.
    > If we don't know this, then we have some reading to do, don't we? Hold
    > that thought, we'll get to that.
    >
    > `man disks`, as on all good SVR4 systems, has this section labeled
    >
    > "SEE ALSO"
    >
    > and what does it say there? Well, let's see:
    >
    > "SEE ALSO
    > add_drv(1M), devfsadm(1M), fdisk(1M), attributes(5),
    > isp(7D), devfs(7FS), dkio(7I), attach(9E),
    > ddi_create_minor_node(9F)"
    >
    > Let's use our brains a little, since being a UNIX system administrator
    > requires INTUITION and above all, FEELING.
    >
    > It won't be add_drv(1M), since obviously the drivers for the disk
    > controller would already be loaded. What else is left? Other topis
    > listed are under sections (5), (7D), (7FS), (7I), (9E) and (9F), which
    > obviously aren't command sections, and therefore do not come into these
    > tales.
    >
    > That leaves us with two commands, which, wouldn't you know it, are
    > devfsadm(1M) and fdisk(1M). So, now we know without a doubt, those are
    > in the (1Maintenance) section.
    >
    > What else does the `man` page for `disks(1M)` tell us?
    >
    > Well, right at the beginning it says:
    >
    > "DESCRIPTION
    > devfsadm(1M) is now the preferred command for /dev and
    > should be used instead of disks."
    >
    > That leaves no doubt as where we should look next.
    >
    > But, since your nit spciefically is with docs.sun.com, let us go there
    > and see what it has to say about it:
    >
    > "Solaris 10 Reference Manual Collection >>
    > man pages section 1M: System Administration Commands >>
    > System Administration Commands >>
    > devfsadm(1M) ? administration command for /dev"
    >
    > http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/816...bb1kq01?a=view
    >
    > Apparently, the same thing, which is *everything* an *experienced* UNIX
    > system administrator would need. Which is who you claim to be, if I may
    > remind you!
    >
    > So, what can be concluded, based on empirical evidence, fact, and the
    > information you provided?
    >
    > We could conclude that you simply aren't experienced with Solaris.
    > Additionally, there is information that indicates you are not
    > particularly resourceful when it comes to locating readily available
    > information. You need to know that this is very bad for a system
    > administrator, especially one that would be a UNIX system administrator.


    Thanks for the lesson in circular reasoning and adventures in recursive
    manpages. I think that if maybe I get brain damage, I may become a sharp
    solaris admin in no time.

    I'll explain my whining since you cannot see the source.

    Dun documentation is horrible, absolutely horrible. It's so horrible, I'm
    shocked. I'm even more shocked people can even try to defend it. You
    really need to examine some other operating systems and see how clear
    documentation can be for what should be a simple task.

    You can continue to live in a small world. I encourage it, since you
    clearly aren't looking for any sort of progress.



  19. Re: adding disk

    Bruce Esquibel wrote:

    Let me start off by writing that you are partially right. I agree with
    some points, but disagree with others.

    > Well in Cydrome Leaders defense and saying this with 10+ years unix
    > experience under my belt, Solaris has a more complicated learning curve and
    > simply isn't that easy to deal with "by reading the correct man page".


    This depends largely on which UNIX you started out first. I was
    practically a kid when I started working on UNIX, and my first contact
    with UNIX was Solaris 2.5.1. This was ten+ years ago! So I learned UNIX
    on Solaris first, then branched out into everything else.

    Therefore, thinking the "Solaris way" comes naturally to me. This might
    be a problem for someone coming from AIX background. And although I find
    AIX to be extremely exotic, since it's neither SVR4 nor BSD, thanks to
    Solaris I could wade my way through anything IBM and AIX could throw at me.
    What I find particularly interesting and fascinating is how easy it is
    to work on IRIX 6.5 and HP-UX if you come from Solaris background. And
    since Solaris 1 used to be BSD based, you also have a learning curve
    advantage when you try out BSD.

    > It's also I think alone in being available for two different platforms
    > consistantly (sparc and x86). If you guys were in the sparc camp, some kind
    > of dialog about running probe-scsi-all from the OBP (stop-a), which doesn't
    > apply to this discussion and yet has extensive coverage in the documentation.


    I understand that. But, Solaris itself is 99% the same on both i86pc and
    sun4u / sun4v platforms. There are some HW specific implementation
    details like `installboot` vs. `bootadm`, GRUB on i86pc and so on, but
    for example GRUB is new for us Solaris folks too. Any because it's been
    so heavily modified, you can pretty much throw your previous GRUB
    knowledge out through the window. So, it's a whole new adventure for us
    as well. But it's also 1% of Solaris, which I find reasonable.

    > If anything, my point is that there is too much documentation Sun delivers
    > with the product and it's difficult to get yer feet wet if you have no
    > experience with it at all. I've seen linux and bsd guys get in a second
    > drive by barely touching the keyboard. Solaris just don't play that game.


    I will partially agree with you here. The trick is that Sun
    documentation is delivered in certain format, more importantly in
    certain structure. Once one comprehends that structure, locating any
    kind of even obscure information becomes a truly trivial task!

    If you go to docs.hp.com or techpubs.sgi.com, you'll find the
    documentation in almost the same format, layout and structure
    (conceptually, of course). So again, understanding how Sun documentation
    "works" is automatically being able to seamlessly locate information on
    three different platforms.

    > Even with documentation in hand, things like "slice 2" of the drive (and why
    > it's always assigned) isn't really spelled out, and of course that leads
    > into "how can I get more than 7 slices on a disk" which wanders into the
    > Disk Management and virtual disks which burns up more time and mucking
    > around experimenting.


    Aaahhh, for this you need to have either SunOS 4.x (Solaris 1), or BSD
    background. Then it all suddenly becomes crystal clear.

    slice 2 is simply the whole disk. It effectively tells you the size of
    the entire disk, plus one can use it for elegant backups. But once you
    understand what it represents and where it comes from, that too becomes
    trivial. In practice, just don't ever modify slice 2 and everything will
    be hunky-dory.

    BTW, to get more than 7 slices on the disk, you can just run `format`
    and write the EFI instead of the Sun label. That'll give you 16 slices
    and over TB capacities, pronto.

    To do that requires maybe, what? 30-45 seconds in `format`, if that?

    > So I can see the linux and bsd guys snickering, if they want 16 slices, few
    > key strokes later, they have 16. The solaris guys instead print out a 400+
    > manual then go through the trial and error setting up metadb, rethinking the
    > disk layout, redo metadb then proceed on with actually doing something with
    > the disks via metainit and metattach.


    I can't see them snickering at all. In fact, I pity the poor ignorant
    bastards. They'll never truly understand UNIX.

    Whatever a Linux geek can accomplish "easily" on Linux, I can do it ten
    times easier and faster on Solaris. Or IRIX. Or HP-UX.

    To set up mirroring on Linux, I had to wade through tons and tons of
    Google "documentation", which I honestly found to be garbage. No
    structure, no quality. I found the *exact* answer I needed, in
    structured detail, on how to set up mirroring on Linux, on Sun's website!

    It took me a good whole day back then. Meanwhile, I could have had
    mirroring set up in under one minute on Solaris, with two commands.
    That's just the way it is.

    > In the end the Solaris guys win out, after going through that ordeal you
    > have a flexibility of moving stuff around via mirrors, can have hot spares,
    > raids.


    Well, perhaps. But this stuff is DESIGNED to be so easy, that once
    you've gone through it all, you can do just about any operation in under
    a minute (discounting waiting for the discs to sync).

    > But to give that in the end, it starts out far more complicated and not as
    > obvious so I really don't see faulting someone who is trying to cut corners
    > and get things rolling.


    Again, it's all in the state of mind. It's about which backroung you
    came from, and how you learned to think "in terms of UNIX".

    But some things, like having intuition and feeling for this stuff, are
    universal. They have nothing to do with particular operating environment.

    > It shouldn't be that hard but it is.


    It really isn't hard. Solaris is one of the easiest UNIXes I ever worked
    with. Only IRIX is easier.

    > These days I wouldn't think of setting up a Solaris box without the boot
    > drive mirrored AND knowing/testing the ability to boot from the mirror, but
    > that really isn't what someone just jumps into either.


    Actually, I don't *ever* set up any systems without mirroring. My
    Solaris workstation, on which I write this, has mirrors all over the
    place. All the three Solaris revisions I run on it are mirrored. It's
    simply not an option to do otherwise. And it's so trivial to do!

  20. Re: adding disk

    Cydrome Leader wrote:

    > Thanks for the lesson in circular reasoning and adventures in recursive
    > manpages. I think that if maybe I get brain damage, I may become a sharp
    > solaris admin in no time.
    >
    > I'll explain my whining since you cannot see the source.
    >
    > Dun documentation is horrible, absolutely horrible. It's so horrible, I'm
    > shocked. I'm even more shocked people can even try to defend it. You


    I believe your problem is the way that the documentation is structured.
    At this time, it does not seem like you've grasped the gist of the
    structure yet. This however is find, because not everybody learns the
    same way. So you may have trouble interpreting something I find
    extremely good. Apparently we learn in different ways.

    > really need to examine some other operating systems and see how clear
    > documentation can be for what should be a simple task.
    >
    > You can continue to live in a small world. I encourage it, since you
    > clearly aren't looking for any sort of progress.


    Actually, I regularly use docs.hp.com and techpubs.sgi.com. I also find
    those to be excellent sources of documentation, AND I find them to be
    identical in layout to docs.sun.com.

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