samba/nfs/MSoffice confusion - SMB

This is a discussion on samba/nfs/MSoffice confusion - SMB ; Ok, this is all a bit odd. I will draw an ascii picture and hope it survives in Google: sun server | .------mandrake 8.2------. +----nfs mount------|client -> samba server|---share-+ | `------------------------' | | .----suse 9.0-----------. | `---nfs mount-----|client -> |-----share--+ ...

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Thread: samba/nfs/MSoffice confusion

  1. samba/nfs/MSoffice confusion

    Ok, this is all a bit odd. I will draw an ascii picture and hope it
    survives in Google:

    sun server
    | .------mandrake 8.2------.
    +----nfs mount------|client -> samba server|---share-+
    | `------------------------' |
    | .----suse 9.0-----------. |
    `---nfs mount-----|client -> |-----share--+
    | samba server | |
    .-----nfs mount--|client -> |---share----+
    | `-----------------------' |
    | |-- Windows
    IRIX workstation



    on Mandrake box smbd -V =Version 2.2.1a
    on Suse box smbd -V =Version 2.2.8a-SuSE

    A long time ago someone set up samba on a mandrake box, to give
    windows users access to the big unix file server. Everyone is a
    "guest" so the files are owned on the server by "nobody" - 99:99 (=
    nobody on Mandrake 8.2). I've tried creating matching pam logins on
    the suse box and (apart from having sensible UID/GID) the behaviour is
    just as bad. So guest, or not, is irrelevant.

    Snag, is, that mandrake box is supposed to be doing something
    important, and we need to get the traffic off. so I have built a
    similar setup with an old Dell server, and installed suse 9 on it.
    I've mounted the same exported drives from the sun box and run samba
    to share them to the windows people.

    It all works fine, except for Microsoft Office apps. If I open a file
    in word on the mandrake share it is fine, just like a local drive. If
    I open it on the suse share then word hangs "not responding" for about
    3 minutes, then comes back to life. Same when auto-save comes in or
    when you try to exit. Other software, other apps, no problem. Only
    Office.

    I have created a samba share to a local disk on the suse 9 box, and it
    works without any problems: I have added another NFS mount from an
    IRIX workstation, and that has the same fault: minutes to open
    word/excel.

    The local drive makes me think that the problem is in nfs, not samba.
    But I can heave huge amounts of data about over the nfs links between
    the unix boxes, and it seems to do what it does. The only bit of code
    that is likely to be handled differently by different windows apps is
    samba.

    I have changed user "nobody" on the suse box from 65544:65533 to 99:99
    to avoid conflicts - no better. I have checked what is happening on
    the sun server: the windows ~$ lock file and ~WOR buffer files are
    created instantly, with the right owners and permission bits.

    The only thing that might take time is that an acl is created on the
    original word file on the sun server from the suse box, but not from
    the mandrake box. the acl appears benign, but I wonder if the act of
    creation is the problem. Other applications do not create acls, and
    the two temporary files that microsoft creates don't have acls.

    The setup of the nfs mounts on the two boses is the same - the options
    are "defaults, rw" on both of them.

    AA: Has anyone seen anything like this before?
    BB: how can I create an nfs mount that does not invoke the acl
    mechanism?
    CC: Is it worth updating to samba 3?
    DD: how can I watch what is going on?

    Bob Harvey
    obs {dot} fugro {dot} venturer {at} rieber-shipping {dot} no

  2. Re: samba/nfs/MSoffice confusion

    robertharvey@my-deja.com (Robert E A Harvey) wrote in
    news:5acbdcbf.0405172224.744f95db@posting.google.c om:

    > Ok, this is all a bit odd. I will draw an ascii picture and hope it
    > survives in Google:
    >
    > sun server
    > | .------mandrake 8.2------.
    > +----nfs mount------|client -> samba server|---share-+
    > | `------------------------' |
    > | .----suse 9.0-----------. |
    > `---nfs mount-----|client -> |-----share--+
    > | samba server | |
    > .-----nfs mount--|client -> |---share----+
    > | `-----------------------' |
    > | |-- Windows
    > IRIX workstation
    >
    >
    >
    > on Mandrake box smbd -V =Version 2.2.1a
    > on Suse box smbd -V =Version 2.2.8a-SuSE
    >


    My suggestion is to run samba on the sun server and the IRIX
    workstation which have access to the "real disks".
    NFS versions may differ between Sun and the Linuxes. Locking mechanisms
    may be different...

    Another possible reasons may be in the ethernet setup. We encountered
    similar problems and it turned out that our server's ethernet card
    used autonegotiation for speed and duplex but the router was set up
    for 100Mbps/full duplex. Setting both sides to autonegotiation solved
    the problems.

    Hope this helps.

    Regards,

    Dirk

    --
    Dirk Krause
    http://et.fh-schmalkalden.de/personen/dhp/krause

  3. Re: samba/nfs/MSoffice confusion

    Dirk Krause wrote
    > My suggestion is to run samba on the sun server and the IRIX
    > workstation which have access to the "real disks".
    > NFS versions may differ between Sun and the Linuxes. Locking mechanisms
    > may be different...

    Yes, I was frightened someone would say this. I have decided to leave
    the sun server and the IRIX box alone, as I have no method of
    repairing them if I do any damage. The distribution media for the OS
    are not on board the ship, because of misguided stupidity by IT
    managers.

    I had a look at pre-compiled samba binaries for Solaris, and they
    require about 8 libraries/utilities. I just don't have time to persue
    a forensic hunt to make sure I can install them without fear!


    > Another possible reasons may be in the ethernet setup. We encountered
    > similar problems and it turned out that our server's ethernet card
    > used autonegotiation for speed and duplex but the router was set up
    > for 100Mbps/full duplex. Setting both sides to autonegotiation solved
    > the problems.

    Hmm. All of these are at 100M/fd, but it was an interesting thought.

    I've done some trials using a separate suse9 workstation with samba 3,
    and although the effect is still visible in word and excel the delay
    is never more than 2 seconds, rather than minutes. I have accordingly
    installed samba 3.0.4 onto the server, and am well satisfied with the
    results. I still don't know what word/excel are doing, but the impact
    is negligable, so we can live with it.

    Thanks for your thoughts.

  4. Re: samba/nfs/MSoffice confusion

    Robert E A Harvey wrote:
    > Dirk Krause wrote
    >
    >>My suggestion is to run samba on the sun server and the IRIX
    >>workstation which have access to the "real disks".
    >>NFS versions may differ between Sun and the Linuxes. Locking mechanisms
    >>may be different...

    >
    > Yes, I was frightened someone would say this. I have decided to leave
    > the sun server and the IRIX box alone, as I have no method of
    > repairing them if I do any damage. The distribution media for the OS
    > are not on board the ship, because of misguided stupidity by IT
    > managers.


    Ship?????? Then I looked at your e-mail address. Cool job, but then
    being there might be a different matter. I'd make a serious point that
    you *need* to be able to restore/reinstall those servers. Point out the
    cost of abandoning a mission just because you didn't have the tapes. I'm
    sure SUN would agree to duplicates considering the nature of the
    installation.

    Other than that though... Office does some strange things opening files.
    We had to go between version 3.0.0 and 3.0.2 of samba because we
    couldn't open Excel files from a read-only share.

    I may be wrong but I think that Office tries to open files read-write,
    Samba 3.0.0 replies 'nope' but NT says 'OK - but it's read-only'. You
    might be hitting a similar problem with the 2.x.x series of Samba.

  5. Re: samba/nfs/MSoffice confusion

    Kevin Thorpe wrote
    > Ship?????? Then I looked at your e-mail address. Cool job, but then
    > being there might be a different matter. I'd make a serious point that
    > you *need* to be able to restore/reinstall those servers.

    It won't happen till they fail. This industry does not "do"
    pro-active.

    > Other than that though... Office does some strange things opening files.
    > We had to go between version 3.0.0 and 3.0.2 of samba because we
    > couldn't open Excel files from a read-only share.

    I know about this one. If you office files as a different user M$oft
    update an internal list of accesses _even if you do nothing_ : the
    files can get bigger and the modification date gets touched.

    of course, there is no way to _access_ this internal log and use the
    information...

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