Re: WTF is it with ubuntu? - Slackware

This is a discussion on Re: WTF is it with ubuntu? - Slackware ; On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 20:44:28 +0000, Sylvain Robitaille wrote: >>> $xterm -bg #000000 -fg #d3d3d3 >>> xterm: bad command line option "-bg" >> Same here. > Wow ... I don't know what to say. The above command is > ...

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Thread: Re: WTF is it with ubuntu?

  1. Re: Slackware and KDE (was: Re: WTF is it with ubuntu?)

    On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 20:44:28 +0000, Sylvain Robitaille wrote:

    >>> $xterm -bg #000000 -fg #d3d3d3
    >>> xterm: bad command line option "-bg"


    >> Same here.


    > Wow ... I don't know what to say. The above command is
    > "copy-and-pasted" right from an existing Xterm (and I just tested again,
    > copying and pasting from Slrn), and works just fine here. There must be
    > something about our environments that makes the difference.




    Sylvain, as others have stated, the difference certainly appears to be the
    different shells used (csh for you, bash for me). I didn't see anything
    obvious in the environment stuff you posted, and I do nearly the same
    things, including booting to runlevel 3. Interesting sub-thread, and I've
    learned some things. Thanks for the info.


    --
    "Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
    The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org


  2. Re: Slackware and KDE (was: Re: WTF is it with ubuntu?)

    Beej Jorgensen wrote:

    > To csh and zsh, '#' is a comment character when input's not a tty. To
    > bash, it's always a comment character.


    Ok, that explains some of the differences we've been discussing (though
    I'm using tcsh, not csh; on Linux csh IS tcsh anyway and that's hardly
    going to make any difference to your point above; still, tcsh is to
    csh as bash is to sh: a more interactive-friendly version). Not the
    differences in fonts, of course.

    > $ xterm -bg \#000000 -fg \#d3d3d3


    Right: the portable version. :-)

    --
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Sylvain Robitaille syl@alcor.concordia.ca

    Network and Systems analyst Concordia University
    Instructional & Information Technology Montreal, Quebec, Canada
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

  3. Re: Slackware Sells Out To KDE/Gnome (was: Re: WTF is it with ubuntu?)

    On 2008-10-23, Sidney Lambe aka Tom Newton aka Alan Connor
    trolled:
    > Beej Jorgensen wrote:
    >> Sidney Lambe wrote:


    [from /etc/rc.d/rc.4]

    >>>echo "Hey, you don't have KDM, GDM, or XDM. Can't use runlevel 4 without"
    >>>echo "one of those installed."
    >>>

    >> The script bitches if you _don't_ have xdm installed AND you try to go
    >> into runlevel 4.
    >>
    >> How would it log you in without going through xdm or some other display
    >> manager? When would the user see a login prompt?

    >
    > They can do what myself and many others do: login at the console
    > and run startx which calls xinitrc which calls a window manager
    > which comes up with an xterm in it. And any other apps you want
    > to run at boot.


    They can do that *in runlevel 3 which is the default runlevel for
    Slackware*. If rc.4 is being called, the user went out of his way to
    select runlevel 4, so he shouldn't be surprised if it wants a
    graphical login manager. (Alternatively, he unwisely modified inittab
    to call rc.4 in runlevel 3. That's unwise.)

    >> xdm isn't necessary, but logging in is necessary. To log in, you can
    >> use the default runlevel 3 with agetty, or you can use runlevel 4 with
    >> xdm, kdm, or gdm.

    >
    > Sure.
    >
    > I have a function:
    >
    > x () { startx ; }
    >
    > So all I have to do is login and enter "x".


    Did you read Beej's post? Obviously not.

    >> With kdm and gdm there's a pulldown menu with all the crazy window
    >> manager/desktop options. I use kdm to log in, but then I use fvwm, not

    Beej uses fvwm ^^^^
    >> KDE.

    >
    > I wouldn't have thought you'd use kde, Mr. Beej.


    Did you read Beej's post? Obviously not. He uses fvwm. He probably
    used kdm because it has handy features that xdm does not. He probably
    uses a graphical login manager because he spends most of his time in X,
    so there's no point in logging in to a getty then always having to run
    startx.

    > I run screen on tty1 and bring up X and ratpoison on tty3 when I need it.


    Do you use Slackware? If so, you're either a lying sack of ****, a
    complete moron, or you've actually modified inittab not to call up a
    getty on tty3. In Slackware's default runlevel 3 gettys are run on
    tty[1-6]. I'm going to go with the first two, and guess that you're
    running X on tty7, as a default Slackware install would.

    In Slackware's default runlevel 4, an extra getty hangs out on tty6,
    IIRC. I usually modify inittab to run gettys on all of tty[2-6] in
    runlevel 4, just in case I really b0rk X.

    > I'll be posting a page of links for the newbies on alt.linux.


    The best advice I could give to newbies is to ignore all your so-called
    ''advice''.

    --keith

    --
    kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
    (try just my userid to email me)
    AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
    see X- headers for PGP signature information


  4. Re: Slackware and KDE (was: Re: WTF is it with ubuntu?)

    Sylvain Robitaille wrote:

    [delete]

    Off-topic drivel because he doesn't want this topic
    discussed.

    Take a look at what he doesn't want you to see:

    http://groups.google.com/group/comp....e0c940fc86096b

    Sid

    --
    contact: http://tinyurl.com/5jxzoj
    googlegroups users see:
    http://tinyurl.com/5mbs7c

  5. Re: Slackware and KDE (was: Re: WTF is it with ubuntu?)

    Sylvain Robitaille wrote:

    [delete]

    More off-topic ramblings snipped.

    Here's what he doesn't want you to see:

    http://groups.google.com/group/comp....e0c940fc86096b

    Sid


    --
    contact: http://tinyurl.com/5jxzoj
    googlegroups users see:
    http://tinyurl.com/5mbs7c

  6. Re: Slackware Sells Out To KDE/Gnome

    Beej Jorgensen wrote:
    > With kdm and gdm there's a pulldown menu with all the crazy window
    > manager/desktop options. I use kdm to log in, but then I use fvwm, not
    > KDE.


    At home I use XDM to log into xfce (as because of space limitations
    I don't have any kde/kdm packages installed there),
    at work I use kdm to get to the same (XFCE) environment (but as
    the machine is a pure clone of our standard "workstation" full
    KDE is available for those who want it - although I do not belong
    to that group).
    The standard "workstation" allows anyone of the group to login to
    any machine, so the setup of Slackware is not user specific (but
    the configs in your (shared) home dir, of course, ARE).
    --
    ************************************************** *****************
    ** Eef Hartman, Delft University of Technology, dept. SSC/ICT **
    ** e-mail: E.J.M.Hartman@tudelft.nl, fax: +31-15-278 7295 **
    ** snail-mail: P.O. Box 5031, 2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands **
    ************************************************** *****************

  7. Re: Slackware and KDE (was: Re: WTF is it with ubuntu?)

    On Wed, 22 Oct 2008, Sidney Lambe wrote:

    > Sylvain Robitaille wrote:
    >
    > [delete]
    >
    > More off-topic ramblings snipped.
    >
    > Here's what he doesn't want you to see:
    >
    > http://groups.google.com/group/comp....e0c940fc86096b
    >

    Apparently there's a big conspiracy to make sure nobody sees it. Google
    says it is unable to find that message.

    A far more likely explanation is that you've done it wrong.

    The trick to being an "expert" is to try things where nobody sees
    you, and then you come off looking capable. But if you err in public,
    that blows the cover.

    Michael


  8. Re: Slackware Sells Out To KDE/Gnome (was: Re: WTF is it with ubuntu?)

    On 2008-10-23, Sidney Lambe wrote:

    > x () { startx ; }
    >
    > So all I have to do is login and enter "x".


    .....which, again, opens the default KDE. One can go from any tty,
    login, and run:

    $startx /etc/X11/xinit/xinit.rc.foo

    foo=desktop mgr, being any one of six choices in slack. These cas easily be
    aliased.

    nb

  9. Re: Slackware Sells Out To KDE/Gnome (was: Re: WTF is it with ubuntu?)

    notbob wrote:

    >> x () { startx ; }
    >>
    >> So all I have to do is login and enter "x".

    >
    > ....which, again, opens the default KDE. ...


    *if* KDE is installed, of course. "Sidney's" great accomplishment is
    being able to do the above on Slackware without having installed KDE.
    (if that makes you go "wooptedoo!" you're on the right track ...)

    He believes that newbies to Linux won't know any other way but to go
    ahead and install KDE, and won't bother investigating any other options.
    He would try and "save" them, by having Slackware's default X environment
    be something other than KDE (ratpoison, or perhaps "ODE", it seems).

    "Sidney" believes that KDE prevents the user from operating at a
    command-line. Others have tried to correct him on this matter, but he's
    incredibly obstinate and historically impervious to Clue. Oh well...

    --
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Sylvain Robitaille syl@alcor.concordia.ca

    Network and Systems analyst Concordia University
    Instructional & Information Technology Montreal, Quebec, Canada
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

  10. Re: Slackware Sells Out To KDE/Gnome (was: Re: WTF is it with ubuntu?)

    On 2008-10-23, Sylvain Robitaille wrote:

    > incredibly obstinate and historically impervious to Clue. Oh well...


    LOL.....



  11. Re: Slackware Sells Out To KDE/Gnome (was: Re: WTF is it with ubuntu?)

    On 2008-10-23, notbob wrote:
    > login, and run:
    >
    > $startx /etc/X11/xinit/xinit.rc.foo
    >
    > foo=desktop mgr, being any one of six choices in slack. These cas easily be
    > aliased.



    Why not just use xwmconfig(1) to set your user's default?
    Then you can do only "startx" instead...

    -RW

  12. Re: Slackware and KDE (was: Re: WTF is it with ubuntu?)

    On 2008-10-22, Sidney Lambe wrote:
    > ["Followup-To:" header set to alt.os.linux.slackware.]
    > Robby Workman wrote:
    >> On 2008-10-21, Sidney Lambe wrote:
    >>>
    >>> A clarifying note: Slackware does not just "come" with kde on it. It
    >>> is a part of its default install and is heavily pushed by all the
    >>> main people at Slackware.

    >>
    >> No, it's not. I neither use nor recommend kde.

    >
    > Why do you bozos keep posting stupid statements like that?



    Did you even bother to read what *YOU* wrote? You said:
    "[KDE] is heavily pushed by all the main people at Slackware."

    Last I checked, I was one of the "main people at Slackware" (whatever
    that means). Therefore, your statement logically expands to:
    "[KDE] is heavily pushed by [me]."

    That's incorrect, as I've already pointed out. I realize that logic
    and reasoning aren't your strengths, but surely you can manage this
    simple jump.


    > You don't have to use or recommend kde _personally_. The
    > slackware website and docs and installation utility and system
    > initialization scripts do it for you.



    You've already been corrected on these points as well.


    > I'm sure glad that you don't bother thinking before you run
    > your mouth.



    I do, but then, refuting the crap you say doesn't require much thinking.


    > You want to produce ignorant appliance operators that you
    > have by the balls because they don't understand linux at all,
    > but just some kindergarten cartoon eye candy artificial
    > interface.



    Of course. That's why I am an active contributor to the unofficial
    Slackware wiki, at the official Slackware forum on LinuxQuestions.org,
    on this newsgroup, on multiple IRC channels related to Slackware and
    several upstream projects, and maintain quite a few howto documents
    for various things. In damn near every instance of doing user support,
    I make a conscious effort to explain the underlying reasons for things
    along the way, and a search of my posting history will confirm that.
    The same can be said of Eric Hameleers and Alan Hicks, and countless
    others here on usenet that you continue to badmouth.


    > You aren't going to bully me, Robby. Never in a million
    > years.



    I don't want to bully you - you're not worth the effort.
    Granted, it would be nice if you'd gulp down a big cup of STFU,
    but I'm content with just correcting your misinformation.


    > And YOU are an effing LIAR.



    There you go with projection again.

    -RW

  13. Re: Slackware Sells Out To KDE/Gnome (was: Re: WTF is it with ubuntu?)

    Sylvain Robitaille wrote:
    > notbob wrote:
    >
    >>> x () { startx ; }
    >>>
    >>> So all I have to do is login and enter "x".

    >>
    >> ....which, again, opens the default KDE. ...


    No it doesn't. First of all, there's no kde on my box, so
    it can't be opened under any circumstances.

    Here, startx calls xinitrc which brings up the xserver and opens
    a window manager.

    Yes. notbrains, you can actually edit those files.

    >
    > *if* KDE is installed, of course. "Sidney's" great accomplishment is
    > being able to do the above on Slackware without having installed KDE.
    > (if that makes you go "wooptedoo!" you're on the right track ...)


    It isn't difficult at all. Never said it was.

    Do you even know what honesty is?

    >
    > He believes that newbies to Linux won't know any other way but to go
    > ahead and install KDE, and won't bother investigating any other options.


    That's what the technocrats running Slackware want them to do.
    Obviously.


    > He would try and "save" them, by having Slackware's default X environment
    > be something other than KDE (ratpoison, or perhaps "ODE", it seems).


    No. I never said anything like that.

    You are an incredibly dishonest person.

    I don't care what the technocratic corporate sellouts at
    Slackware do.

    Getting around you is simple as pie. Slackware, like any distro,
    can easily be modified.

    >
    > "Sidney" believes that KDE prevents the user from operating at a
    > command-line.


    You are lying AGAIN.

    I never said any such thing.

    You are a disgusting human being.

    Here's what I have said:

    It isn't kde that prevents people from learning how the linux
    operating system works and from using bash to create their
    own, individualized user interfaces.

    It's people who push artificial user interfaces like kde on
    the newbies and don't tell them they have another option and
    and offer to teach them that other option too.

    People like the technocratic corporate puppets at Slackware.

    Dishonest people like you.

    > Others have tried to correct him on this matter, but he's
    > incredibly obstinate and historically impervious to Clue. Oh well...


    That's right. I don't let dishonest bullies like you push me
    around.

    The fact that you are so willing to lie tells everyone what kind
    of person you are and that you know you are wrong.

    Here's what these dishonest bullies don't want you to think about:

    http://groups.google.com/group/comp....e0c940fc86096b

    Fellows? If you don't like what I have to say, here's what you can
    do about it:

    1. Get down on your hands and knees.
    2. Pucker up.
    3. Kiss my ass.


    Sid

    --
    contact: http://tinyurl.com/5jxzoj
    googlegroups users see:
    http://tinyurl.com/5mbs7c

  14. Re: Slackware and KDE (was: Re: WTF is it with ubuntu?)

    On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 18:51:42 +0000, Robby Workman wrote:

    >> You aren't going to bully me, Robby. Never in a million
    >> years.


    > I don't want to bully you - you're not worth the effort.
    > Granted, it would be nice if you'd gulp down a big cup of STFU,
    > but I'm content with just correcting your misinformation.


    LOL! I'd like him to gulp down a big cup of friggin arsenic.

    RW, here's a cup you can save for passing out to the clueless in the
    future, and I'll pass it along to Sidney/Tom/Alan right now for his
    gulping pleasure:

    http://brandybuck.site40.net/pics/hot-cup.jpg


    --
    "Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
    The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org


  15. Re: Slackware Sells Out To KDE/Gnome (was: Re: WTF is it with ubuntu?)

    On 2008-10-23, Sidney Lambe wrote:
    > It isn't kde that prevents people from learning how the linux
    > operating system works and from using bash to create their
    > own, individualized user interfaces.
    >
    > It's people who push artificial user interfaces like kde on
    > the newbies and don't tell them they have another option and
    > and offer to teach them that other option too.


    Assume all that you have stated is true...here's a thought, it's the
    individual's responsibility to investigate and learn. There is nothing in
    the world to prevent that activity.


    >
    > People like the technocratic corporate puppets at Slackware.
    >
    > Dishonest people like you.
    >
    >> Others have tried to correct him on this matter, but he's
    >> incredibly obstinate and historically impervious to Clue. Oh well...

    >
    > That's right. I don't let dishonest bullies like you push me
    > around.
    >
    > The fact that you are so willing to lie tells everyone what kind
    > of person you are and that you know you are wrong.
    >
    > Here's what these dishonest bullies don't want you to think about:
    >
    > http://groups.google.com/group/comp....e0c940fc86096b


    Once again, this url is useless, just a google error message. You did check
    before you posted...right??



    ken

  16. Re: Slackware Sells Out To KDE/Gnome (was: Re: WTF is it with ubuntu?)

    # Followup-To: alt.os.linux.slackware
    Robby Workman wrote:
    > NOTE: I sincerely apologize to everyone suffering through this thread,
    > but on the off chance that some new user is reading Sid's worthless
    > drivel and not realizing that he's so full of **** his eyes are brown,
    > I feel obliged to set the record straight.
    >


    You feel obliged to attack anyone who points out the fact that
    slackware has sold out to the corporations backing kde (and to a
    lesser extent, gnome), who want to destroy linux by turning it
    into a windows clone. They throw these big parties disguised as
    'business seminars' and wine and dine the leaders of slackware
    and now you aren't the 'hacker distro' anymore, but just another
    sellout distro turning out ignorant appliance operators rather
    than people who really understand linux.

    http://troy-at-kde.livejournal.com/14690.html

    That's one of about a thousand hits that this search string turned up:

    "patrick volkerding" kde conference OR seminar

    (He's the leader and founder and owner of slackware incorporated)

    It's not a "conference", it's an expensive vacation disguised
    as a conference. A bribe, in-other-words.

    Slackware does not just "come" with kde on it. It is a part of
    its default install and is heavily pushed by all the main people
    at Slackware.

    kde site:slackware.com

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&i...kware.com&btnG

    217 hits

    On ONE effing website that offers a computer operating system with
    over a thousand applications on it, not counting kde.

    Sylvain Robitaille and you and the other lying bullies on aols keep
    denying this, but let's take a look at the system initialization
    script for runlevel 4 on slackware 12.0:

    /etc/rc.d/rc.4

    #l rc.4
    #! /bin/sh
    #
    # rc.4 This file is executed by init(8) when the system is being
    # initialized for run level 4 (XDM)
    #
    # Version: @(#)/etc/rc.d/rc.4 2.00 02/17/93
    #
    # Author: Fred N. van Kempen,
    # At least 47% rewritten by: Patrick J. Volkerding
    #

    # Tell the viewers what's going to happen...
    echo "Starting up X11 session manager..."

    # Try to use GNOME's gdm session manager. This comes first because if
    # gdm is on the machine then the user probably installed it and wants
    # to use it by default:
    if [ -x /usr/bin/gdm ]; then
    exec /usr/bin/gdm -nodaemon
    fi

    # Someone thought that gdm looked prettier in /usr/sbin,
    # so look there, too:
    if [ -x /usr/sbin/gdm ]; then
    exec /usr/sbin/gdm -nodaemon
    fi

    # Not there? OK, try to use KDE's kdm session manager:
    if [ -x /opt/kde/bin/kdm ]; then
    exec /opt/kde/bin/kdm -nodaemon
    elif [ -x /usr/bin/kdm ]; then
    exec /usr/bin/kdm -nodaemon
    fi

    # If all you have is XDM, I guess it will have to do:
    if [ -x /usr/bin/xdm ]; then
    exec /usr/bin/xdm -nodaemon
    elif [ -x /usr/X11R6/bin/xdm ]; then
    exec /usr/X11R6/bin/xdm -nodaemon
    fi

    # error
    echo
    echo "Hey, you don't have KDM, GDM, or XDM. Can't use runlevel 4 without"
    echo "one of those installed."
    sleep 30

    # All done.

    First it looks for gnome, which is a bit weird. But right on
    track because it's basically the same thing as kde. Many of the
    corporations behind kde also back gnome, because they may be
    competitors but they both want you using a graphical desktop
    environment rather than running linux directly.

    Then the script looks for kde. And if it doesn't find it it
    actually bitches that all you have is xdm installed.

    I run X here and don't use xdm, so obviously not even it is
    necessary. What you are seeing here is a special runlevel
    devoted to graphical desktop environments.

    And this is run whenever a newbie boots up slackware.

    Yet these liars have posted here many times that graphical desktop
    enviroments are _optional_ on slackware.'

    No newbie is going to mess with the system initialization scripts.

    And since kde installs by default, that's what they are going
    to find themselves faced with.

    Duh.

    And that's what I'm talking about: How the newbies are treated,
    not what the pros can do.


    [delete]

    Sid

    --
    contact: http://tinyurl.com/5jxzoj
    googlegroups users see:
    http://tinyurl.com/5mbs7c

  17. Re: Slackware Sells Out To KDE/Gnome (was: Re: WTF is it with ubuntu?)

    On 2008-10-23, Robby Workman wrote:

    > Why not just use xwmconfig(1) to set your user's default?
    > Then you can do only "startx" instead...


    Yet another way. Ain't slack great?

    nb

  18. Re: Slackware Sells Out To KDE/Gnome (was: Re: WTF is it with ubuntu?)

    On 2008-10-23, Sidney Lambe wrote:

    > You feel obliged....blah blah blah....
    > slackware has sold out to the corporations....blah blah...
    > ....who want to destroy linux.....blah
    > into a windows clone....bluh
    > sellout distro...blahblah
    > than people who really understand linux...b l a h


    Apparently, you feel obligated to piss into the wind and call it rain. Do
    you have anything to say that doesn't require a towel?

    nb

  19. Re: Slackware Sells Out To KDE/Gnome (was: Re: WTF is it withubuntu?)

    On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 11:58:55 -0700, someone posting as Sidney Lambe
    purportedly wrote:

    > Fellows? If you don't like what I have to say, here's what you can do
    > about it:
    >
    > 1. Get down on your hands and knees.
    > 2. Pucker up.
    > 3. Kiss my ass.


    actually there is one other thing I could do...

    4. Plonk

    In the meantime, would you kindly **** off? You're so boring, my nipples
    fell off and one of them rolled under the stove.

    --
    poking dumbasses in the forehead, one dumbass at a time.

  20. Re: Slackware Sells Out To KDE/Gnome (was: Re: WTF is it with ubuntu?)

    On 2008-10-24, wordsmith wrote:

    > In the meantime, would you kindly **** off? You're so boring, my nipples
    > fell off and one of them rolled under the stove.


    ROFLMAO!

    heh.... recover it... snort..... it may come in handy..... LOL.....!

    nb

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