Re: WTF is it with ubuntu? - Slackware

This is a discussion on Re: WTF is it with ubuntu? - Slackware ; On 2008-10-22, Loki Harfagr wrote: > On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 05:18:42 +0000, Sylvain Robitaille sprout: > >> Robby Workman wrote: >> >>> liberty $ echo $SHELL >>> /bin/ksh >> >> After all you've done for the community, don't you ...

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Thread: Re: WTF is it with ubuntu?

  1. Re: Slackware and KDE (was: Re: WTF is it with ubuntu?)

    On 2008-10-22, Loki Harfagr wrote:
    > On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 05:18:42 +0000, Sylvain Robitaille sprout:
    >
    >> Robby Workman wrote:
    >>
    >>> liberty $ echo $SHELL
    >>> /bin/ksh

    >>
    >> After all you've done for the community, don't you think you can lay off
    >> the self-punishment??? ;-)

    >
    > seconded! or at least Robby, if you really insist you deserve such a
    > lot of self-punishment don't dilly-dally, play real game where the
    > game and the hunter have equal chances to claw their foot and set your
    > shell to be csh ;-)



    HA! Now *that* would be insane.

    -RW

  2. Re: Slackware and KDE (was: Re: WTF is it with ubuntu?)

    On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 03:45:11 +0000, Robby Workman wrote:

    > I don't even use bash, for what it's worth.
    >
    > liberty $ echo $SHELL
    > /bin/ksh


    If I may ask, why do you choose that shell (over bash). I have not
    explored alternate shells, and am just looking for a brief answer...


    --
    "Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
    The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org


  3. Re: Slackware and KDE (was: Re: WTF is it with ubuntu?)

    On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 18:36:25 +0000, notbob wrote:

    >> I don't know, "xterm -bg #000000 -fg #d3d3d3" looks fine on my systems.


    > Hmmmm... Doesn't work at all on mine:
    >
    > $xterm -bg #000000 -fg #d3d3d3
    > xterm: bad command line option "-bg"
    >
    > usage:[blah blah...]


    Same here. It did come out if I take out the "#" symbols, although it
    appeared to be black-on-black and not real useful that way. I then tried
    "xterm -bg black -fg white" and it worked fine, other than having a tiny
    font that was very difficult to read. I'm sure that can be tweaked also,
    but I'll just be sticking to Xfce's "Terminal" app.


    --
    "Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
    The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org


  4. Re: Slackware Sells Out To KDE/Gnome (was: Re: WTF is it with ubuntu?)

    On 2008-10-22, Sidney Lambe wrote:
    > ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.misc.]
    >
    > Robby Workman wrote:
    >> NOTE: I sincerely apologize to everyone suffering through this thread,
    >> but on the off chance that some new user is reading Sid's worthless
    >> drivel and not realizing that he's so full of **** his eyes are brown,
    >> I feel obliged to set the record straight.
    >>

    >
    > You feel obliged to attack anyone who points out the fact that
    > slackware has sold out...



    No, that's impossible, because no such facts exist. I'm attacking
    you because you're a lying moron.


    > http://fixunix.com/slackware/336517-...ends-kde-4-0-r



    I was there, dumb****. I don't need a link.


    > Sylvain Robitaille and you and the other lying bullies on aols keep
    > denying this, but let's take a look at the system initialization
    > script for runlevel 4 on slackware 12.0:
    >
    > /etc/rc.d/rc.4
    > ...
    > # All done.
    >
    > First it looks for gnome, which is a bit weird.



    No, some users choose to install gnome, so the assumption is that
    those users will want to use gdm instead of kdm.


    > And this is run whenever a newbie boots up slackware.



    See, you're a moron.

    liberty $ head -n 25 /etc/inittab
    #
    # inittab This file describes how the INIT process should set up
    # the system in a certain run-level.
    #
    # Version: @(#)inittab 2.04 17/05/93 MvS
    # 2.10 02/10/95 PV
    # 3.00 02/06/1999 PV
    # 4.00 04/10/2002 PV
    #
    # Author: Miquel van Smoorenburg,
    # Modified by: Patrick J. Volkerding,
    #

    # These are the default runlevels in Slackware:
    # 0 = halt
    # 1 = single user mode
    # 2 = unused (but configured the same as runlevel 3)
    # 3 = multiuser mode (default Slackware runlevel)
    # 4 = X11 with KDM/GDM/XDM (session managers)
    # 5 = unused (but configured the same as runlevel 3)
    # 6 = reboot

    # Default runlevel. (Do not set to 0 or 6)
    id:3:initdefault:


    As is plainly evident, the default runlevel is *3* -- not *4*


    > Yet these liars have posted here many times that graphical desktop
    > enviroments are _optional_ on slackware.'



    Is it 1984 again?


    > No newbie is going to mess with the system initialization scripts.



    Which is why they'll get a console by default.


    > And since kde installs by default, that's what they are going
    > to find themselves faced with.
    >
    > Duh.



    Oops. Why don't you just shut your piehole? All you're doing is
    proving to even more people that you wouldn't know your ass from
    a hole in the ground, even though your head is firmly planted in it.

    -RW

  5. Re: Slackware and KDE (was: Re: WTF is it with ubuntu?)

    On 2008-10-22, Dan C wrote:
    > On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 03:45:11 +0000, Robby Workman wrote:
    >
    >> I don't even use bash, for what it's worth.
    >>
    >> liberty $ echo $SHELL
    >> /bin/ksh

    >
    > If I may ask, why do you choose that shell (over bash). I have not
    > explored alternate shells, and am just looking for a brief answer...



    Answered in msg id rn84t5xl6f.ln2@Cardinal.lizella.net

    -RW

  6. Re: Slackware and KDE (was: Re: WTF is it with ubuntu?)

    On 2008-10-22, Dan C wrote:
    > On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 03:45:11 +0000, Robby Workman wrote:
    >
    >> I don't even use bash, for what it's worth.
    >>
    >> liberty $ echo $SHELL
    >> /bin/ksh

    >
    > If I may ask, why do you choose that shell (over bash). I have not
    > explored alternate shells, and am just looking for a brief answer...



    Er, I gave the wrong one earlier. Should have been:
    ms84t5xl6f.ln2@Cardinal.lizella.net

    -RW

  7. Re: Slackware and KDE (was: Re: WTF is it with ubuntu?)

    ["Followup-To:" header set to alt.os.linux.slackware.]
    Robby Workman wrote:
    > On 2008-10-21, Sidney Lambe wrote:
    >>
    >> A clarifying note: Slackware does not just "come" with kde on it. It
    >> is a part of its default install and is heavily pushed by all the
    >> main people at Slackware.

    >
    > No, it's not. I neither use nor recommend kde.


    Why do you bozos keep posting stupid statements like that?

    You don't have to use or recommend kde _personally_. The
    slackware website and docs and installation utility and system
    initialization scripts do it for you.

    I'm sure glad that you don't bother thinking before you run
    your mouth.

    Obviously the people behind slackware aren't dependent on
    kde/gnome/xfce.

    Which is one of my main points: You can't actually run linux
    from these interfaces. People who are dependent on them are
    dependent on pros like you, which is how you want it to be.

    You want to produce ignorant appliance operators that you
    have by the balls because they don't understand linux at all,
    but just some kindergarten cartoon eye candy artificial
    interface.

    Slackware used to be a very different distro. Now it's just
    another sellout version of linux trying to be like windows.

    If the truth offends you, and it should, trying to shoot
    the messenger won't change it one iota.

    Notice I said "trying".

    You aren't going to bully me, Robby. Never in a million
    years.

    And YOU are an effing LIAR.

    Anyone interested in the truth can see this post of mine:

    http://groups.google.com/group/comp....e0c940fc86096b

    [delete]

    Sid


    --
    contact: http://tinyurl.com/5jxzoj
    googlegroups users see:
    http://tinyurl.com/5mbs7c

  8. Re: Slackware and KDE (was: Re: WTF is it with ubuntu?)

    * Dan C wrote in alt.os.linux.slackware:

    > On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 03:45:11 +0000, Robby Workman wrote:
    >
    >> I don't even use bash, for what it's worth.
    >>
    >> liberty $ echo $SHELL
    >> /bin/ksh

    >
    > If I may ask, why do you choose that shell (over bash). I have not
    > explored alternate shells, and am just looking for a brief answer...
    >
    >


    Probably a programmer.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korn_shell

    --
    David

  9. Re: Slackware and KDE (was: Re: WTF is it with ubuntu?)

    Dan C wrote:

    > On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 03:45:11 +0000, Robby Workman wrote:
    >
    >> I don't even use bash, for what it's worth.
    >>
    >> liberty $ echo $SHELL
    >> /bin/ksh

    >
    > If I may ask, why do you choose that shell (over bash). I have not
    > explored alternate shells, and am just looking for a brief answer...
    >

    Because the evil corporations want you to not use linux by making you use
    the training wheels command line bash...

    :-)

    --
    http://www.petezilla.co.uk

  10. Re: Slackware and KDE (was: Re: WTF is it with ubuntu?)

    On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 18:36:25 +0000, notbob wrote:

    > Hmmmm... Doesn't work at all on mine:
    >
    > $xterm -bg #000000 -fg #d3d3d3
    > xterm: bad command line option "-bg"
    >
    > usage:[blah blah...]



    Dan C wrote:

    > Same here.


    Wow ... I don't know what to say. The above command is
    "copy-and-pasted" right from an existing Xterm (and I just tested again,
    copying and pasting from Slrn), and works just fine here. There must be
    something about our environments that makes the difference.

    : charlotte[syl] ~; which xterm
    /usr/bin/xterm
    : charlotte[syl] ~; cat /etc/slackware-version
    Slackware 12.1.0

    Like I mentioned in an earlier message, though, I've been using the same
    configuration for over a decade, so it certainly isn't specific to the
    version of Slackware I'm using.

    > It did come out if I take out the "#" symbols, although it appeared to
    > be black-on-black and not real useful that way.


    :-) Maybe you need reading glasses? ;-)

    > I then tried "xterm -bg black -fg white" and it worked fine, other
    > than having a tiny font that was very difficult to read.


    Hrmmm... definitely an environment issue, then. The default font used
    by Xterm on my systems is quite "normal" in size and appearance.

    Oddly, there isn't much done to the environment by my personal startup
    files (nothing in .login, and only the following in .cshrc):

    : charlotte[syl] ~; grep setenv .cshrc
    setenv OSTYPE `uname | tr '[A-Z]' '[a-z]'`
    setenv HOST `hostname`
    setenv WHOAMI `whoami`
    setenv EDITOR 'vim'
    setenv VISUAL 'vim'
    setenv NNTPSERVER 'newsflash'
    setenv SHELL ${shell}
    setenv MANPATH "$HOME/man:/local/manpaths:/usr/man:/usr/share/man:/usr/X11R6/man"

    Nothing there that we can expect to affect how Xterm runs ... Do you
    start in runlevel 3? (maybe there's something in my X startup files
    ....)

    : charlotte[syl] ~; which startx
    startx: aliased to exec ssh-agent startx
    : charlotte[syl] ~; which \startx
    /usr/bin/startx

    Hrmmm... .Xresources has only:

    ! 2005/12/20 Sylvain Robitaille
    ! ----------

    Xterm.cutNewline: true
    Xterm.trimSelection: true

    ..xinitrc:

    #!/bin/sh
    # $XConsortium: xinitrc.cpp,v 1.4 91/08/22 11:41:34 rws Exp $

    userresources=$HOME/.Xresources
    usermodmap=$HOME/.Xmodmap
    sysresources=/local/X11R6/lib/X11/xinit/.Xresources
    sysmodmap=/local/X11R6/lib/X11/xinit/.Xmodmap

    # merge in defaults and keymaps

    if [ -f $sysresources ]; then
    xrdb -merge $sysresources
    fi

    if [ -f $sysmodmap ]; then
    xmodmap $sysmodmap
    fi

    if [ -f $userresources ]; then
    xrdb -merge $userresources
    fi

    if [ -f $usermodmap ]; then
    xmodmap $usermodmap
    fi

    # turn off screen blanking?
    xset s 0

    # start some nice programs
    exec fvwm2
    #exec twm

    ..xserverrc

    #!/bin/sh
    exec X "$@" -auth "$HOME/.Xauthority"

    (note that $HOME/.Xmodmap referred to in .xinitrc doesn't exist ...)

    > I'm sure that can be tweaked also, but I'll just be sticking to Xfce's
    > "Terminal" app.


    Right. I would do the same faced with Xterm as you're seeing it: stick
    to what you know works as you like. Why bother wrestling something else
    into behaving like what you already have working. That is indeed why I
    switch Konsole to Xterm in KDE when I'm working in that.

    --
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Sylvain Robitaille syl@alcor.concordia.ca

    Network and Systems analyst Concordia University
    Instructional & Information Technology Montreal, Quebec, Canada
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

  11. Re: Slackware and KDE (was: Re: WTF is it with ubuntu?)

    Sylvain Robitaille wrote:
    > On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 18:36:25 +0000, notbob wrote:
    >
    >> Hmmmm... Doesn't work at all on mine:
    >>
    >> $xterm -bg #000000 -fg #d3d3d3
    >> xterm: bad command line option "-bg"

    [...]
    > Wow ... I don't know what to say.


    well, it seems that the above works in csh but not in bash.


    --
    Joost Kremers joostkremers@yahoo.com
    Selbst in die Unterwelt dringt durch Spalten Licht
    EN:SiS(9)

  12. Re: Slackware and KDE (was: Re: WTF is it with ubuntu?)

    On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 20:51:17 +0000, Joost Kremers wrote:

    > Sylvain Robitaille wrote:
    >> On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 18:36:25 +0000, notbob wrote:
    >>
    >>> Hmmmm... Doesn't work at all on mine:
    >>>
    >>> $xterm -bg #000000 -fg #d3d3d3
    >>> xterm: bad command line option "-bg"

    > [...]
    >> Wow ... I don't know what to say.

    >
    > well, it seems that the above works in csh but not in bash.


    But Sylvain didn't need to mention that because csh is the standard shell
    on Slackware, right? Oh, wait...?

  13. Re: Slackware and KDE (was: Re: WTF is it with ubuntu?)

    Mark Madsen wrote:
    > On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 20:51:17 +0000, Joost Kremers wrote:
    >
    >> Sylvain Robitaille wrote:
    >>> On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 18:36:25 +0000, notbob wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Hmmmm... Doesn't work at all on mine:
    >>>>
    >>>> $xterm -bg #000000 -fg #d3d3d3
    >>>> xterm: bad command line option "-bg"

    >> [...]
    >>> Wow ... I don't know what to say.

    >>
    >> well, it seems that the above works in csh but not in bash.

    >
    > But Sylvain didn't need to mention that because csh is the standard shell
    > on Slackware, right? Oh, wait...?


    Oh, wait, these folks are changing the subect without changing
    the Subject header. It appears that they don't want discuss KDE
    and Slackware, and I'm sure they think they are unbelievably
    clever.

    If you want to know the truth about KDE and Slackware, see this
    article:

    http://groups.google.com/group/comp....e0c940fc86096b

    Don't let these corporate drones turn you into an ignorant appliance
    operator. Learn Linux, not kde/gnome/xfce...

    Sid

    --
    contact: http://tinyurl.com/5jxzoj
    googlegroups users see:
    http://tinyurl.com/5mbs7c

  14. Re: ksh (was: Slackware and KDE)

    Robby Workman wrote:
    >I don't recall when, but pdksh was in Slackware at some point, and
    >then Pat put in the real Korn shell. As for the rationale/motivation
    >behind the change, I don't know.


    Wikipedia says the ksh license changed to be more open-sourcey in
    2000--I'll bet that was it.

    -Beej


  15. Re: ksh

    Robby Workman wrote:
    > On 2008-10-22, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
    >> Robby Workman wrote:



    > I don't recall when, but pdksh was in Slackware at some point, and
    > then Pat put in the real Korn shell. As for the rationale/motivation
    > behind the change, I don't know.


    I suspect PV includes it now due to a licence change.
    ksh licence was changed a many years ago to some type
    of 'open' licence.

    >
    > -RW


    Regards
    Jack

    --
    To announce that there must be no criticism of the president,
    or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is
    not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
    to the American public. -- Theodore Roosevelt

  16. Re: Slackware and KDE (was: Re: WTF is it with ubuntu?)

    On 2008-10-22, Dan C wrote:

    > Same here.


    It works ok if I do:

    $xterm -bg black -fg green


    Six of one, half dozen of the other. I like Konsole cuz it's remembered by
    kde and always opens when I boot to kde, all five terms. I can add/delete
    more if needed, all the same with a couple key-stokes. Even when I use xfce
    or fluxbox, I still keep Konsole around. There's also eterm and aterm.
    Never could figure out the advantage of any of them over konsole, but that's
    the beauty of choice.

    nb

  17. Re: Slackware Sells Out To KDE/Gnome (was: Re: WTF is it with ubuntu?)

    Sidney Lambe wrote:
    >echo "Hey, you don't have KDM, GDM, or XDM. Can't use runlevel 4 without"
    >echo "one of those installed."
    >
    >Then the script looks for kde. And if it doesn't find it it
    >actually bitches that all you have is xdm installed.


    The script bitches if you _don't_ have xdm installed AND you try to go
    into runlevel 4.

    How would it log you in without going through xdm or some other display
    manager? When would the user see a login prompt?

    xdm isn't necessary, but logging in is necessary. To log in, you can
    use the default runlevel 3 with agetty, or you can use runlevel 4 with
    xdm, kdm, or gdm.

    If you're in runlevel 3, you can type "startx" to start X; but only
    after you've logged in, obviously.

    With kdm and gdm there's a pulldown menu with all the crazy window
    manager/desktop options. I use kdm to log in, but then I use fvwm, not
    KDE.

    -Beej


  18. Re: Slackware and KDE (was: Re: WTF is it with ubuntu?)

    Sylvain Robitaille wrote:
    >Wow ... I don't know what to say. The above command is
    >"copy-and-pasted" right from an existing Xterm (and I just tested
    >again, copying and pasting from Slrn), and works just fine here. There
    >must be something about our environments that makes the difference.


    Try running this script:

    ---------------------------- 8< ----------------------------
    #!/bin/sh

    xterm -bg #000000 -fg #d3d3d3
    ---------------------------- 8< ----------------------------

    You can put whatever shell you want in there and get the same error
    results, including csh and zsh. Funky, huh!

    To csh and zsh, '#' is a comment character when input's not a tty. To
    bash, it's always a comment character.

    % echo foo # bar
    foo # bar

    $ echo foo # bar
    foo

    % echo echo foo # bar | csh -s
    foo

    $ xterm -bg \#000000 -fg \#d3d3d3

    -Beej


  19. Re: Slackware Sells Out To KDE/Gnome (was: Re: WTF is it with ubuntu?)

    Beej Jorgensen wrote:
    > Sidney Lambe wrote:
    >>echo "Hey, you don't have KDM, GDM, or XDM. Can't use runlevel 4 without"
    >>echo "one of those installed."
    >>
    >>Then the script looks for kde. And if it doesn't find it it
    >>actually bitches that all you have is xdm installed.

    >
    > The script bitches if you _don't_ have xdm installed AND you try to go
    > into runlevel 4.
    >
    > How would it log you in without going through xdm or some other display
    > manager? When would the user see a login prompt?


    They can do what myself and many others do: login at the console
    and run startx which calls xinitrc which calls a window manager
    which comes up with an xterm in it. And any other apps you want
    to run at boot.

    >
    > xdm isn't necessary, but logging in is necessary. To log in, you can
    > use the default runlevel 3 with agetty, or you can use runlevel 4 with
    > xdm, kdm, or gdm.


    Sure.

    I have a function:

    x () { startx ; }

    So all I have to do is login and enter "x".

    >
    > If you're in runlevel 3, you can type "startx" to start X; but only
    > after you've logged in, obviously.


    :-)

    >
    > With kdm and gdm there's a pulldown menu with all the crazy window
    > manager/desktop options. I use kdm to log in, but then I use fvwm, not
    > KDE.
    >
    > -Beej
    >


    I wouldn't have thought you'd use kde, Mr. Beej.

    I run screen on tty1 and bring up X and ratpoison on tty3 when I need it.

    I'll be posting a page of links for the newbies on alt.linux.

    Would appreciate it if you'd contribute your favorites to the thread.

    Sid

    --
    contact: http://tinyurl.com/5jxzoj
    googlegroups users see:
    http://tinyurl.com/5mbs7c

  20. Re: Slackware and KDE (was: Re: WTF is it with ubuntu?)

    notbob wrote:

    > Six of one, half dozen of the other. I like Konsole cuz it's
    > remembered by kde ...


    Well, you can configure KDE to "remember" Xterm in place of Konsole, of
    course ...

    > ... and always opens when I boot to kde, all five terms.


    .... and that should work just as well, since it's session-management,
    not Konsole-specific.

    Nevertheless ...

    > ... that's the beauty of choice.


    Yes, of course.

    --
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Sylvain Robitaille syl@alcor.concordia.ca

    Network and Systems analyst Concordia University
    Instructional & Information Technology Montreal, Quebec, Canada
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

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