This is why I use slackware - Slackware

This is a discussion on This is why I use slackware - Slackware ; Can there be any more proof that ubuntu is aimed at the braindead?: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFirewall ----- Policy (Completed: Hardy) The default firewall policy will be: 1. ACCEPT all on loopback 2. ACCEPT all outgoing 3. default policy of ACCEPT for incoming ...

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Thread: This is why I use slackware

  1. This is why I use slackware

    Can there be any more proof that ubuntu is aimed at the braindead?:

    https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFirewall

    -----

    Policy

    (Completed: Hardy)

    The default firewall policy will be:

    1. ACCEPT all on loopback
    2. ACCEPT all outgoing
    3. default policy of ACCEPT for incoming (configurable)
    4. LOG all dropped packets (perhaps use --limit 3/min
    --limit-burst 10 or similar)
    5. Firewall is disabled on installation

    -----

    Granted, Slack comes with no ipchains packet filter utility, but at least it
    doesn't offer bogus claims to lull users into a false sense of security.
    Even linux.com would have you believe this is a good thing:

    http://www.linux.com/feature/148629

    "The Uncomplicated Firewall (UFW) is a new tool from Ubuntu whose goal is to
    make configuration of the built-in Linux packet filter less complicated and
    more secure for novice users."

    Oh yeah? Look at the default settings above.

    This has to be insanely confusing to the new user. Do I have a firewall?
    Ubuntu says yes. DOH!

    "With UFW, enabling and disabling packet filtering is a simple matter of
    issuing the sudo ufw enable and sudo ufw disable commands."

    Yeah, like Windows XP users hava a clue what sudo is. Lordy! Is it me or
    is this whole ubuntu phenomema just a scam?

    nb



  2. Re: This is why I use slackware

    * notbob wrote in alt.os.linux.slackware on 2008-10-03:

    > Yeah, like Windows XP users hava a clue what sudo is.


    So?

    > Lordy! Is it me or
    > is this whole ubuntu phenomema just a scam?


    Works great for thousands of other users, isnt choice grand?

    --
    David | Fight Back!
    Optimism is the content of small men in high places.
    -- F. Scott Fitzgerald, "The Crack Up"

  3. Re: This is why I use slackware

    On Fri, 03 Oct 2008 21:39:24 GMT, notbob wrote:

    >Can there be any more proof that ubuntu is aimed at the braindead?:
    >
    >https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFirewall
    >
    >-----
    >
    >Policy
    >
    >(Completed: Hardy)
    >
    >The default firewall policy will be:
    >
    > 1. ACCEPT all on loopback
    > 2. ACCEPT all outgoing
    > 3. default policy of ACCEPT for incoming (configurable)
    > 4. LOG all dropped packets (perhaps use --limit 3/min
    > --limit-burst 10 or similar)
    > 5. Firewall is disabled on installation
    >
    >-----
    >
    >Granted, Slack comes with no ipchains packet filter utility, but at least it

    ^^^^^^^^--> iptables anyone?
    >doesn't offer bogus claims to lull users into a false sense of security.


    Slack-11 offers something to do with iptables in /etc/rc.d/rc.modules-2.4.33.3
    Slamd64-12.1 has iptables statements in /etc/rc.d/rc.modules-2.6.24.5 too, so
    I assume slack-12.1 does.

    I just did a quick grep from /etc. Both are comments on setting up firewall
    and direct user to 'man iptables' in the usual 'teach a man to fish...'
    fashion.

    >Even linux.com would have you believe this is a good thing:
    >
    >http://www.linux.com/feature/148629
    >
    >"The Uncomplicated Firewall (UFW) is a new tool from Ubuntu whose goal is to
    >make configuration of the built-in Linux packet filter less complicated and
    >more secure for novice users."
    >
    >Oh yeah? Look at the default settings above.


    It's crap...
    >
    >This has to be insanely confusing to the new user. Do I have a firewall?
    >Ubuntu says yes. DOH!


    'Tis bad, another generation of linux 'botnets?
    >
    >"With UFW, enabling and disabling packet filtering is a simple matter of
    >issuing the sudo ufw enable and sudo ufw disable commands."
    >
    >Yeah, like Windows XP users hava a clue what sudo is. Lordy! Is it me or
    >is this whole ubuntu phenomema just a scam?


    Scary how this sudo crap fad whatever now permeates the linux 'guidance'
    for beginners. Okay, I've set sudoers to let me as 'wheel' member sudo
    a 'make install' for example without have to enter root's password, but
    *buntu take it to ridiculous lengths, pages of commands, each prefixed
    with sudo -- erm root login, anyone?

    Scam? Other day I notice 'how do it remove grub?' thread, bagging
    linux because brainless *buntu install mode wipes the MBR -- but some
    'doze users too stupid to think in terms on 'how do I rewrite MBR?'
    with 'doze FIXMBR and/or FIXBOOT tools on the recovery console (the
    what??) that's been around I think since Win2k.

    UFW? Why put another layer between users and the basic tools?

    Or id this the only way to appeal to 'dozing Drag'n'Droolers?

    Grant.
    --
    http://bugsplatter.id.au/

  4. Re: This is why I use slackware

    On Fri, 3 Oct 2008, SINNER wrote:

    > * notbob wrote in alt.os.linux.slackware on 2008-10-03:
    >
    >> Yeah, like Windows XP users hava a clue what sudo is.

    >
    > So?
    >
    >> Lordy! Is it me or
    >> is this whole ubuntu phenomema just a scam?

    >
    > Works great for thousands of other users, isnt choice grand?


    and not so for many more, my laptop tri-boots, and ubuntu is the ONLY
    one that doesnt have a clue on what to do with my battery, the reported
    percents never change and I have, apparently 72 hours on battery

    the best the ubuntu maintainers can say is the battery is old and should
    be replaced, pitty its 7 months old and under Slackware and win**** it
    reports accordingly 3.5 hours, laptop mode works, as under win**** I only
    get 3.5 hours, under both linux's with powersave mode etc on if I do
    little use, like leave it no msn only etc, I can get 5+ hours out of it.

    Ubuntu is put together by 98% debian maintainers, so its just as ****ed as
    debian, IOW its just as hacked to ****house, apparently they admit gutting
    a lot of laptop tools/GPM functionality, which is prolly why GPM is brain
    dead on ubuntu, oh and my wireless only operates in 11b as well, on win
    and slack it works as designed at 11g.

    Even under my ol ****dora partition things worked as well as it does on
    slack, but i detest RH/fedoras politics, hence why i removed fedora and
    put in ubuntu as my 3rd OS on it, personally I think its better only for
    win**** newbies to linux, since the political u-cant-use because of U.S
    law (hello, the entire world is NOT governed by U.S law) firmware X or
    codec Y is available at the repos where all you gota do is confirm you
    accept it might be against the law of your country in using foo or bar
    and it gets and installs it, now thats a no brainer for most of us
    experienced linux users as we tend to use the tarballs, but newbies
    have not got a clue, they just want X, Y and Z to work out of the box,
    this is the only way ubuntu is better than many distros, and even for us
    ol timers, it saves time, which can be very precious when you dont have
    any spare

    ubuntu is to debian what fedora is to redhat... so user beware.

    I have no problem using ubuntu on my laptop, maybe even a desktop one day,
    but hell will freeze over before I use it in mission critical situations
    like a data center, or even my private home mail/file servers, they will
    always be Slackware


    --
    Cheers
    Res

    "The hopes we had, were much to high, way out of reach, but we have to
    try, no need to hide, no need to run, cause all the answers come one by
    one" -Freiheit

  5. Re: This is why I use slackware

    On Sat, 4 Oct 2008, Grant wrote:

    > On Fri, 03 Oct 2008 21:39:24 GMT, notbob wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> Granted, Slack comes with no ipchains packet filter utility, but at least it

    > ^^^^^^^^--> iptables anyone?


    Grant, he's right, ipchains doesnt come with slackware, because most
    distros stop using ipchains many many many years ago ... haha, sorry
    couldnt resist that


    --
    Cheers
    Res

    "The hopes we had, were much to high, way out of reach, but we have to
    try, no need to hide, no need to run, cause all the answers come one by
    one" -Freiheit

  6. Re: This is why I use slackware

    On 2008-10-03, Grant wrote:

    >>Granted, Slack comes with no ipchains packet filter utility, but at least it

    > ^^^^^^^^--> iptables anyone?


    DOH!

    ....and I know better.

    nb ...braindead slack user

  7. Re: This is why I use slackware

    On 2008-10-04, notbob wrote:
    >
    > nb ...braindead slack user


    A perfect candidate for Ubuntu! ;-O

    --keith

    --
    kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
    (try just my userid to email me)
    AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
    see X- headers for PGP signature information


  8. Re: This is why I use slackware

    Grant wrote:

    > Scary how this sudo crap fad whatever now permeates the linux 'guidance'
    > for beginners. Okay, I've set sudoers to let me as 'wheel' member sudo
    > a 'make install' for example without have to enter root's password, but
    > *buntu take it to ridiculous lengths, pages of commands, each prefixed
    > with sudo -- erm root login, anyone?
    >


    If you really want to get flamed go over to alt.os.linux.ubuntu and ask (or
    explain) how to enable the root account.


    Pete
    --
    http://www.petezilla.co.uk

  9. Re: This is why I use slackware

    notbob wrote:
    > [...] default policy of ACCEPT for incoming [...]


    Ubuntu by default offers no services at all, thus has no open doors
    anyway.

    --
    enos76

  10. Re: This is why I use slackware

    On 04 Oct 2008 07:45:54 GMT, enos76 wrote:

    >notbob wrote:
    >> [...] default policy of ACCEPT for incoming [...]

    >
    >Ubuntu by default offers no services at all, thus has no open doors
    >anyway.


    Whaddya mean offers no services? Soon as some *ubuntu luser does a
    sudo apt-crap some_daemon install they're wide open and no thought
    given to limiting resource access or DoS. And the social engineering
    behind this means that these same lusers will be the ones exploited
    'cos they'll likely do anything without thinking, just as long as the
    instructions or scriptlet starts with a 'sudo' it must be okay )

    Grant.
    --
    http://bugsplatter.id.au/

  11. Re: This is why I use slackware

    Peter Chant wrote:
    > Grant wrote:
    >> *buntu take it to ridiculous lengths, pages of commands, each prefixed
    >> with sudo -- erm root login, anyone?


    > If you really want to get flamed go over to alt.os.linux.ubuntu and ask
    > (or explain) how to enable the root account.


    My father uses ubuntu. Life got a lot easier for him once I told him that
    he could do "sudo bash".

    Being an oldfashioned Slackware user myself I prefer to have a root
    login, but I can also understand the good points of sudo. A few years back
    at work we used to have a root aliases for different people which should
    have different administrative priveleges. Today those root aliases are
    replaced with the usage of sudo.

    Still in a networked environment I find a real root login necessary for
    administrative tasks those times when a normal user is unable to login.
    Things that could make it impossible for normal users to login is when the
    NFS server which exports the users home directory is down or if the NIS or
    ldap server which serves user login data is down. At those occasions you
    really need a root account to login to.

    regards Henrik
    --
    The address in the header is only to prevent spam. My real address is:
    hc3(at)poolhem.se Examples of addresses which go to spammers:
    root@localhost postmaster@localhost


  12. Re: This is why I use slackware

    On Sat, 4 Oct 2008, Henrik Carlqvist wrote:

    > Being an oldfashioned Slackware user myself I prefer to have a root
    > login, but I can also understand the good points of sudo. A few years back
    > at work we used to have a root aliases for different people which should
    > have different administrative priveleges. Today those root aliases are
    > replaced with the usage of sudo.


    sudo is far less secure in its default configuration on most OS's

    sudo -i
    do foo
    do bar
    exit
    ....get up, go for a coffee
    ....2 mins later someone types sudo -i oh lookie in like flyn with no
    password

    rm -rf /

    ...you come back and find a totally borked system

    Yes, you can disable the time cache, but it SHOULD be disbled in the FIRST
    place, therefor sudo is less secure than a root login.

    I rather just sudo passwd root ...and then onwards use root_login/su and
    be done with it.


    --
    Cheers
    Res

    "The hopes we had, were much to high, way out of reach, but we have to
    try, no need to hide, no need to run, cause all the answers come one by
    one" -Freiheit

  13. Re: This is why I use slackware

    In ,
    Res wrote:

    > sudo is far less secure in its default configuration on most OS's
    >
    > sudo -i
    > do foo
    > do bar
    > exit
    > ...get up, go for a coffee
    > ...2 mins later someone types sudo -i oh lookie in like flyn with
    > no password
    >
    > rm -rf /
    >
    > ..you come back and find a totally borked system
    >
    > Yes, you can disable the time cache, but it SHOULD be disbled in the
    > FIRST place, therefor sudo is less secure than a root login.


    Is it really any harder to remember to type `sudo -k` than it is to
    remember to log out of a root session? I guess it just depends on what
    you're in the habit of doing.

    --
    Q
    Kleeneness is next to Gdelness.


  14. Re: This is why I use slackware

    On Sat, 4 Oct 2008, Q wrote:

    > In ,
    > Res wrote:
    >
    >> sudo is far less secure in its default configuration on most OS's
    >>
    >> sudo -i
    >> do foo
    >> do bar
    >> exit
    >> ...get up, go for a coffee
    >> ...2 mins later someone types sudo -i oh lookie in like flyn with
    >> no password
    >>
    >> rm -rf /
    >>
    >> ..you come back and find a totally borked system
    >>
    >> Yes, you can disable the time cache, but it SHOULD be disbled in the
    >> FIRST place, therefor sudo is less secure than a root login.

    >
    > Is it really any harder to remember to type `sudo -k` than it is to
    > remember to log out of a root session? I guess it just depends on what
    > you're in the habit of doing.



    You only support my argument that sudo is insecure by default, as you
    quoted me saying it can be avoided/disabled, but remember 90% of users
    conned into using it, like debians (this include *buntu since they are all
    maintained by the debian devs) wont use it, they'll use sudo program
    or sudo -i, half the users using ubuntu etc wouldnt even know WTF 'man' is
    or think of looking up options, they will be conned into using it through
    examples, and yes I'm ashammed to admit I'm on the ubuntu-users list, and
    not once have I seen anyone suggest -k or edit options file to disable it,
    not bloody once, i feel sorry for the new users being left open by the
    drongos on there who dont offer 'secure' advice, its clear they are all
    home lusers who dont work in application critical environments, then
    again, maybe some do, sure would explain why some linux boxes in hosting
    companies get r00ted so easily all the time


    --
    Cheers
    Res

    "The hopes we had, were much to high, way out of reach, but we have to
    try, no need to hide, no need to run, cause all the answers come one by
    one" -Freiheit

  15. Re: This is why I use slackware

    »Q« wrote:

    > Is it really any harder to remember to type `sudo -k` than it is to
    > remember to log out of a root session? I guess it just depends on what
    > you're in the habit of doing.


    I'd lock a non-root session anyway!
    ....especially if I was my workmate ;-)

    --
    enos76

  16. Re: This is why I use slackware

    On Sun, 05 Oct 2008 10:19:18 +1000, Res wrote:

    > sudo is insecure by default, as you
    > quoted me saying it can be avoided/disabled, but remember 90% of users
    > conned into using it, like debians


    Debian creates a root account by default, and sudo for user accounts is
    disabled by default.

    > (this include *buntu since they are
    > all maintained by the debian devs)


    Is there any evidence to support that assertion?

    One can be a big Slackware fan, but if one is going to knock other people
    and distros one should base one's statements and criticisms on verifiable
    fact. Anything else is merely silly.

  17. Re: This is why I use slackware

    On Sun, 5 Oct 2008, Mark Madsen wrote:

    > On Sun, 05 Oct 2008 10:19:18 +1000, Res wrote:
    >
    >> sudo is insecure by default, as you
    >> quoted me saying it can be avoided/disabled, but remember 90% of users
    >> conned into using it, like debians

    >
    > Debian creates a root account by default, and sudo for user accounts is
    > disabled by default.


    ubuntu does not create a root account with a root password therefore root
    a/c as such is not usable until you sudo passwd root
    debian itself ive not used in years and never will again.

    >
    >> (this include *buntu since they are
    >> all maintained by the debian devs)

    >
    > Is there any evidence to support that assertion?


    Scott Kitterman debian/ubuntu team.



    Cheers
    Res

    "The hopes we had, were much to high, way out of reach, but we have to
    try, no need to hide, no need to run, cause all the answers come one by
    one" -Freiheit

  18. Re: This is why I use slackware

    On Sun, 05 Oct 2008 20:42:39 +1000, Res wrote:

    > On Sun, 5 Oct 2008, Mark Madsen wrote:
    >
    >> On Sun, 05 Oct 2008 10:19:18 +1000, Res wrote:
    >>
    >>> sudo is insecure by default, as you
    >>> quoted me saying it can be avoided/disabled, but remember 90% of users
    >>> conned into using it, like debians

    >>
    >> Debian creates a root account by default, and sudo for user accounts is
    >> disabled by default.

    >
    > ubuntu does not create a root account with a root password therefore
    > root a/c as such is not usable until you sudo passwd root


    I said "Debian", not Ubuntu. Despite your assertions to the contrary,
    they are different.

    > debian itself
    > ive not used in years and never will again.


    Then why do you think you know anything about it?

    >>> (this include *buntu since they are
    >>> all maintained by the debian devs)

    >>
    >> Is there any evidence to support that assertion?

    >
    > Scott Kitterman debian/ubuntu team.


    Nice try, but you score a zero on the test.

    Your assertion was "...all....", so showing that one Debian maintainer
    out of over a thousand works on both teams demonstrates exactly nothing
    to back up your assertion.

    Your claim is that you can show that all the *buntu are "maintained by
    the Debian devs". Even a single non-Debian dev working on Xubuntu, say,
    would disprove your assertion.

    Logic. It gets us all in the end.

  19. Re: This is why I use slackware

    On Mon, 5 Oct 2008, Mark Madsen wrote:

    >>> Debian creates a root account by default, and sudo for user accounts is
    >>> disabled by default.

    >>
    >> ubuntu does not create a root account with a root password therefore
    >> root a/c as such is not usable until you sudo passwd root

    >
    > I said "Debian", not Ubuntu. Despite your assertions to the contrary,
    > they are different.


    by name and cosmetics only

    >>> Is there any evidence to support that assertion?

    >>
    >> Scott Kitterman debian/ubuntu team.


    I'd take his word that the debian devs also do ubuntus over yours any
    day sport, why should I think you know more then him, you, a completely
    unknown troll, now kiddie, go try pull a fast one elsewhere where someone
    might give a **** and be dumb enough to listen to you.


    --
    Cheers
    Res

    "The hopes we had, were much to high, way out of reach, but we have to
    try, no need to hide, no need to run, cause all the answers come one by
    one" -Freiheit

  20. Re: This is why I use slackware

    On Mon, 06 Oct 2008 16:00:56 +1000, Res wrote:

    > On Mon, 5 Oct 2008, Mark Madsen wrote:
    >
    >>>> Debian creates a root account by default, and sudo for user accounts
    >>>> is disabled by default.
    >>>
    >>> ubuntu does not create a root account with a root password therefore
    >>> root a/c as such is not usable until you sudo passwd root

    >>
    >> I said "Debian", not Ubuntu. Despite your assertions to the contrary,
    >> they are different.

    >
    > by name and cosmetics only


    OK, so you don't know the difference. That's fine. But then don't set
    yourself up as an expert on other distros.

    >>>> Is there any evidence to support that assertion?
    >>>
    >>> Scott Kitterman debian/ubuntu team.

    >
    > I'd take his word that the debian devs also do ubuntus over yours any
    > day sport, why should I think you know more then him, you, a completely
    > unknown troll, now kiddie, go try pull a fast one elsewhere where
    > someone might give a **** and be dumb enough to listen to you.


    Cool. An ad hominem attack. That's an excellent way to demonstrate that
    you don't actually have any evidence to support your wilder assertions.

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