mailinglist manager - Slackware

This is a discussion on mailinglist manager - Slackware ; Hallo alle miteinander, which mailinglist manager is a "ready for use" tarball for slackware? I've searched some hours, majordomo very old, too old? mailman no slackware package (?) ezmlm no slackware package (?) listserv no slackware package (?), is it ...

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Thread: mailinglist manager

  1. mailinglist manager

    Hallo alle miteinander,

    which mailinglist manager is a "ready for use" tarball for slackware?

    I've searched some hours,

    majordomo very old, too old?
    mailman no slackware package (?)
    ezmlm no slackware package (?)
    listserv no slackware package (?), is it free?

    other packages?

    Viele Gruesse
    Helmut

    "Ubuntu" - an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".


  2. Re: mailinglist manager

    On Sat, 27 Sep 2008, Helmut Hullen wrote:

    > Hallo alle miteinander,
    >
    > which mailinglist manager is a "ready for use" tarball for slackware?
    >
    > I've searched some hours,
    >
    > majordomo very old, too old?
    > mailman no slackware package (?)
    > ezmlm no slackware package (?)
    > listserv no slackware package (?), is it free?
    >
    > other packages?


    Ecartis, it has tarball and rpm, you could use rpm2tgz
    if you really want to use a Slackware package version of it.



    --
    Cheers
    Res

    "The hopes we had, were much to high, way out of reach, but we have to
    try, no need to hide, no need to run, cause all the answers come one by
    one" -Freiheit

  3. Re: mailinglist manager

    Hallo Helmut,

    Op zaterdag 27 september 2008 schreef Helmut Hullen aan All:

    HH> majordomo very old, too old?

    I got the impressio that it' nof supported any more.

    HH> mailman no slackware package (?)

    Very clear installation instructions. Good support from the
    mailing list. Used by many people. I'm happy with it.

    HH> ezmlm no slackware package (?)
    HH> listserv no slackware package (?), is it free?

    Don't know.

    HH> other packages?

    Groeten,

    Hans.

    jdh punt beekhuizen bij duinheks punt nl


  4. Re: mailinglist manager

    Hallo, Res,

    Du meintest am 27.09.08:

    >> which mailinglist manager is a "ready for use" tarball for
    >> slackware?


    > Ecartis, it has tarball and rpm, you could use rpm2tgz
    > if you really want to use a Slackware package version of it.


    Looks good - thank you!

    Viele Gruesse
    Helmut

    "Ubuntu" - an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".


  5. Re: mailinglist manager

    On Sat, 27 Sep 2008, Helmut Hullen wrote:

    > Hallo, Res,
    >
    > Du meintest am 27.09.08:
    >
    >>> which mailinglist manager is a "ready for use" tarball for
    >>> slackware?

    >
    >> Ecartis, it has tarball and rpm, you could use rpm2tgz
    >> if you really want to use a Slackware package version of it.

    >
    > Looks good - thank you!


    Thats OK, it looks good, and works good, very customisable, more so IMHO
    then other MLM's I've used, and I've used it since it was known as listar
    pre 2K, ISC uses it and freelists use it, they dont release versions every
    few months, because it does everything now


    --
    Cheers
    Res

    "The hopes we had, were much to high, way out of reach, but we have to
    try, no need to hide, no need to run, cause all the answers come one by
    one" -Freiheit

  6. Re: mailinglist manager

    Helmut Hullen wrote:

    > majordomo very old, too old?


    Too old for what? It has no moving parts, and therefore has shown no
    signs of wear ... It works. Can you honestly argue with that?

    > listserv no slackware package (?), is it free?


    I think it is, yes, but I haven't actually looked at that in years.

    > other packages?


    Sendmail. If your mailing-list needs are simple, just create the list
    as a mail alias (I use included files for that on my personal system).

    --
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Sylvain Robitaille syl@alcor.concordia.ca

    Network and Systems analyst Concordia University
    Instructional & Information Technology Montreal, Quebec, Canada
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

  7. Re: mailinglist manager

    Hallo, Sylvain,

    Du meintest am 27.09.08:

    >> majordomo very old, too old?


    > Too old for what? It has no moving parts, and therefore has shown no
    > signs of wear ... It works. Can you honestly argue with that?


    I have now recompiled majordomo-1.94.5, with strange side effects: I can
    change UID and GID (and some other variables) in the Makefile, but
    "wrapper" doesn't care.

    Seems to work with the predefined values.

    >> other packages?


    > Sendmail. If your mailing-list needs are simple, just create the
    > list as a mail alias (I use included files for that on my personal
    > system).


    My collegue from the neighbour school just works this way ...

    Viele Gruesse
    Helmut

    "Ubuntu" - an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".


  8. Re: mailinglist manager

    Sylvain Robitaille wrote:

    >
    > Sendmail. If your mailing-list needs are simple, just create the list
    > as a mail alias (I use included files for that on my personal system).
    >


    I'd advise against that. You need a little more intelligence in the system
    than a simple sendmail alias based list. I ran such a list once and all
    was well until one of the subscribers got a virus (worm?) that happily sent
    itself out as an email to the list.

    I replaced it with procmail basedscript called from aliases that checked
    that users put a certain word in the subject. Whilst this worked it was
    probaly more effort than installing some mailing list software.

    Pete

    --
    http://www.petezilla.co.uk

  9. Re: mailinglist manager

    Helmut Hullen wrote:

    > I have now recompiled majordomo-1.94.5, with strange side effects: I
    > can change UID and GID (and some other variables) in the Makefile,
    > but "wrapper" doesn't care.


    Hrmmm... that hasn't been a problem here. I last installed majordomo
    in 2004 on Slackware-9.1, and our current mail admins have it running on
    Slamd64-12.0, with the same configuration I produced in 2004.

    > Seems to work with the predefined values.


    I don't see why it wouldn't work with changed values also, though.

    Perhaps you can post more detail?

    --
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Sylvain Robitaille syl@alcor.concordia.ca

    Network and Systems analyst / (ex)Postmaster Concordia University
    Instructional & Information Technology Montreal, Quebec, Canada
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

  10. Re: mailinglist manager

    Peter Chant wrote:

    >> ... If your mailing-list needs are simple, just create the list as a
    >> mail alias (I use included files for that on my personal system).
    >>

    >
    > ... I ran such a list once and all was well until one of the
    > subscribers got a virus (worm?) that happily sent itself out as an
    > email to the list.
    >
    > I replaced it with procmail basedscript called from aliases that
    > checked that users put a certain word in the subject. Whilst this
    > worked it was probaly more effort than installing some mailing list
    > software.


    Most mailing list management software (at least those packages that I'm
    familiar with) don't normally require list subscribers to include a
    specific string in the subject header either, though, so that wouldn't
    have produced the same solution you decided you needed.

    --
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Sylvain Robitaille syl@alcor.concordia.ca

    Network and Systems analyst Concordia University
    Instructional & Information Technology Montreal, Quebec, Canada
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

  11. Re: mailinglist manager

    Sylvain Robitaille wrote:


    > Most mailing list management software (at least those packages that I'm
    > familiar with) don't normally require list subscribers to include a
    > specific string in the subject header either, though, so that wouldn't
    > have produced the same solution you decided you needed.
    >


    Good point. How do they stop virii / worms etc?

    Pete

    --
    http://www.petezilla.co.uk

  12. Re: mailinglist manager

    On Sun, 28 Sep 2008, Peter Chant wrote:

    > Sylvain Robitaille wrote:
    >
    >
    >> Most mailing list management software (at least those packages that I'm
    >> familiar with) don't normally require list subscribers to include a
    >> specific string in the subject header either, though, so that wouldn't
    >> have produced the same solution you decided you needed.
    >>

    >
    > Good point. How do they stop virii / worms etc?


    Since when has that been the job of any mailing list manager?
    Mosdt of them have basic regexp anti spam, but even thats not the real
    job of a MLM>


    --
    Cheers
    Res

    "The hopes we had, were much to high, way out of reach, but we have to
    try, no need to hide, no need to run, cause all the answers come one by
    one" -Freiheit

  13. Re: mailinglist manager

    Helmut Hullen wrote:
    > which mailinglist manager is a "ready for use" tarball for slackware?
    >
    > I've searched some hours,
    >
    > majordomo very old, too old?


    Yes. Why do you put up with such pain and suffering?

    > mailman no slackware package (?)


    No. But you'd be classified a true masochist if you used it, so
    that's alright.

    > ezmlm no slackware package (?)


    And qmail-specific anyway. There's an alternative for any MTA though,
    called mlmmj.

    > listserv no slackware package (?), is it free?


    Listserv has long been sold commercially. It's actually very good,
    even now, to be sure; a close approximation - perhaps even a
    replacement - is in Majordomo2, an entirely perl-based alternative
    that makes even Ecartis seem a little shy. (I use Ecartis though
    myself, because it's lovely, even if it's a bit rough. Now, Ecartis
    makes Mailman definitely look shy, or at least rather silly. Spend
    some time with the source.)

    > other packages?


    MLMMJ is quite easy to set up if you do plus addressing, but it works
    better on something besides Sendmail for use of the '-' extension
    char. It still works though and is AFAIK the only other MLM that will
    natively support VERP, not counting patches and mods to other MLMs and
    not counting entirely standalone alternatives like Sympa. MLMMJ, for
    Mailing List Management Made Joyful, is kind of nice for everybody to
    use because it uses the famous listname-command@host syntax.

    There is Dada Mail, for a mostly one-way MLM. It's different, in that
    it requires no installation (it was meant for use on webhosts), and
    works by fetching gatewayed mails and bounces from POP boxes.

    Listmanager was written by a Sendmail guy (listmanager.org). It was
    closed source when I last looked (due to embarassment of the author,
    apparently) but it runs sendmail.org's lists. He provides easy-to-go
    binaries.

    Listproc, naturally, is the Listserv competitor of Bitnet that never
    made it. But you can still get the source, if you fancy it. And I've
    even seen it running occasionally on current lists.

    Doubtless, there are others, if only Google weren't so full of spam
    nowadays we could find them.

    HTH

    Cheers,
    Sabahattin

  14. Re: mailinglist manager

    Sabahattin Gucukoglu :
    > Helmut Hullen wrote:
    >> mailman no slackware package (?)

    >
    > No. But you'd be classified a true masochist if you used it, so
    > that's alright.


    I've been following this thread since I'm going to be setting up a
    managed mailing list myself, and I'd like to know a bit more about why
    this is a masochistic choice. I've chosen it to try first. I've already
    got the mailing list set up in sendmail and will soon be configuring
    Mailman.

    By 'soon' I mean within the next week or two.

    --
    I want another RE-WRITE on my CEASAR SALAD!!

    www.websterscafe.com

  15. Re: mailinglist manager

    Handover Phist wrote:
    > Sabahattin Gucukoglu :
    > > Helmut Hullen wrote:
    > >> mailman no slackware package (?)

    > >
    > > No. But you'd be classified a true masochist if you used it, so
    > > that's alright.

    >
    > I've been following this thread since I'm going to be setting up a
    > managed mailing list myself, and I'd like to know a bit more about why
    > this is a masochistic choice. I've chosen it to try first. I've already
    > got the mailing list set up in sendmail and will soon be configuring
    > Mailman.


    Yeah, you just do that. And when you're all finished, bruised and
    bleeding, you come back here and ask us, all tears and penitence, for
    further advice. :-)

    Seriously though, it's of course a matter of preference, but I
    couldn't stand it from the beginning. I can't stand the installation
    procedure, I can't stand the webification of absolutely everything, I
    can't stand the user experience and the hopeless, useless,
    bastardised, crappy email interface, I can't stand the per-list
    configuration procedure or the painfully slow moderation process that
    take me so far from my lovely email clients, I can't stand the way the
    files are scattered about on the FS and the use of unreadable DB
    files, I can't stand the need for sixty billion commandline tools for
    doing bloody simple things, I can't stand the way it keeps
    optimistically sending backscatter in the hopes the bounced will
    somehow come back from the dead, I can't stand Mailman Tuesday or the
    password reminders or, goddammit, even the need for a password by
    compulsion, I can't stand having to maintain common configuration
    across lists by noting every change on each one and then painfully
    having to make them per list, I just can't bloody stand it! I run
    several of these bastards, and all I can say is that I wish I had
    control of the host machine so I could RIP it off and replace it with
    Ecartis.

    But you may feel differently. Just in case you don't, let me
    recommend Ecartis again. You'll see why, when you get there. If you
    start on it now, you'll see before it's too late. Honestly, it only
    takes one directory in a simple build, and you'll forgive all your
    wrongs when you see the beauty of it.

    But let me point out a few very good features of Mailman: it's highly
    suitable in virtual domain setups and it also has a great degree of
    pre-existing integration with Exim, if you happen to use that.
    There's also very robust MIME support. Perhaps if you enjoy these,
    you'll appreciate Mailman.

    But I still think you're going to bleed if you're anything like the
    email and editor/shell addict I am. It's only when the end-users
    mostly consist in "Normal" people that you begin to think that
    perhaps, if nothing else, Mailman is sufficiently popular that your
    users have a reasonable chance of using it (but is telling them to
    email commands like "subscribe" and "help", or using a CGI interface
    that requires registration first *really* all that hard?). If
    performance counts and you're the one mostly doing the talking, and
    your users only need the ability to get on or off your list, or mostly
    consist in individuals generally clued in the matter of command-
    response-based software interfaces, then Ecartis or some other less
    frilly MLM is the clearest possible winner.

    Cheers,
    Sabahattin

  16. Re: mailinglist manager

    Peter Chant wrote:
    > Sylvain Robitaille wrote:
    > > Most mailing list management software (at least those packages that I'm
    > > familiar with) don't normally require list subscribers to include a
    > > specific string in the subject header either, though, so that wouldn't
    > > have produced the same solution you decided you needed.
    > >

    > Good point. How do they stop virii / worms etc?


    Assuming the MTA actually passes on such bad mail to the MLM, most of
    them can do regexp search/MIME mangling/message discard of one form or
    another. You could turn harmful mails into harmless ones. Converting
    HTML to plaintext is another popular one, as is removing all
    attachments. For moderation-only lists, the smart listservers like
    Mercury/32 and Ecartis let you specify a moderator's password in a
    message header, and that prevents even forged virus or malicious mail/
    spam/bad subscribers from getting to all the list subscribers without
    approval by forging an admin or moderator's address on a post.

    Cheers,
    Sabahattin

  17. Re: mailinglist manager

    Peter Chant wrote:

    > How do they stop virii / worms etc?


    In my experience, that's not the mailing-list management software's
    job. If any attempt for that is to be made, it would be done probably
    by the MTA (or more specifically software hooks into the MTA).

    The mailing list management software's job is to distribute messages to
    a list of recipients in an efficient manner. Perhaps also to make sure
    that messages sent to the list are permitted only from specific
    addresses (usually those subscribed to the list), and of course to
    provide an interface for people to subscribe and unsubscribe to the
    list.

    We could get into details of every little thing various mailing list
    management software makes possible, including some rudimentary
    spam/virus-detection, but these would be beside the point, in my
    opinion.

    --
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Sylvain Robitaille syl@alcor.concordia.ca

    Network and Systems analyst Concordia University
    Instructional & Information Technology Montreal, Quebec, Canada
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

  18. Re: mailinglist manager

    Sylvain Robitaille wrote:

    > Peter Chant wrote:
    >
    >> How do they stop virii / worms etc?

    >
    > In my experience, that's not the mailing-list management software's
    > job. If any attempt for that is to be made, it would be done probably
    > by the MTA (or more specifically software hooks into the MTA).
    >


    Point made in several posts. I see your point. If I wanted virus scanning
    better to go it generally via sendmail.


    > The mailing list management software's job is to distribute messages to
    > a list of recipients in an efficient manner. Perhaps also to make sure
    > that messages sent to the list are permitted only from specific
    > addresses (usually those subscribed to the list), and of course to
    > provide an interface for people to subscribe and unsubscribe to the
    > list.


    Yes, did that. Bit conscious thought that From headers are forgable. IIRC
    small list so I did it manually.

    >
    > We could get into details of every little thing various mailing list
    > management software makes possible, including some rudimentary
    > spam/virus-detection, but these would be beside the point, in my
    > opinion.
    >


    I was just asking out of curiosity. However, the virus issue is a real one,
    one that hit me.


    Pete

    --
    http://www.petezilla.co.uk

  19. Re: mailinglist manager

    Sabahattin Gucukoglu wrote:


    >
    > Yeah, you just do that. And when you're all finished, bruised and
    > bleeding, you come back here and ask us, all tears and penitence, for
    > further advice. :-)

    ....

    .....
    > having to make them per list, I just can't bloody stand it! I run
    > several of these bastards, and all I can say is that I wish I had
    > control of the host machine so I could RIP it off and replace it with
    > Ecartis.
    >


    Sorry, I'm not quite sure, but I'm getting the feeling that you don't like
    it...

    ;-)

    --
    http://www.petezilla.co.uk

  20. Re: mailinglist manager

    Hallo, Sylvain,

    Du meintest am 28.09.08:

    >> I have now recompiled majordomo-1.94.5, with strange side effects: I
    >> can change UID and GID (and some other variables) in the Makefile,
    >> but "wrapper" doesn't care.


    > Perhaps you can post more detail?


    cd /path/to/majordomo; ./wrapper config-test

    requests UID 123, GID 45, Path /usr/test/majordomo

    Viele Gruesse
    Helmut

    "Ubuntu" - an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".


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