mailinglist manager - Slackware

This is a discussion on mailinglist manager - Slackware ; Helmut Hullen wrote: > cd /path/to/majordomo; ./wrapper config-test > > requests UID 123, GID 45, Path /usr/test/majordomo Hrmmm... Our majordomo installation here is quite extensively customized, but the equivalent run here produces much more output, including: --------------------- euid/egid checks --------------------- ...

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Thread: mailinglist manager

  1. Re: mailinglist manager

    Helmut Hullen wrote:

    > cd /path/to/majordomo; ./wrapper config-test
    >
    > requests UID 123, GID 45, Path /usr/test/majordomo


    Hrmmm... Our majordomo installation here is quite extensively
    customized, but the equivalent run here produces much more output,
    including:

    --------------------- euid/egid checks ---------------------
    effective user = majordom (uid 332)
    effective group = majordom ... (gid 332 ...)
    ---------------------- uid/gid checks ----------------------
    real user = majordom (uid 332)
    real group = majordom ... (gid 332 ...)
    ------------------------------------------------------------

    I don't know how to imagine config-test's output from what you've
    written above, or whether it is or isn't what you expected from the
    configuration you haven't posted ...

    --
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Sylvain Robitaille syl@alcor.concordia.ca

    Network and Systems analyst Concordia University
    Instructional & Information Technology Montreal, Quebec, Canada
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

  2. Re: mailinglist manager

    Peter Chant wrote:

    > ... Bit conscious thought that From headers are forgable.


    Trivially forgeable in fact. It's a mailing list, though, not something
    that should be counted on for any sense of security.

    > ... the virus issue is a real one, one that hit me.


    I doubt you're alone. Still, since that's an issue that affects mail
    delivery in general, if you're going to address it at all, better to
    address it as the mail arrives, not while it's being processed for
    mailing lists. As you said, better to look at (hooks into) Sendmail for
    that.

    --
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Sylvain Robitaille syl@alcor.concordia.ca

    Network and Systems analyst Concordia University
    Instructional & Information Technology Montreal, Quebec, Canada
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

  3. Re: mailinglist manager

    On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 19:16:21 +0000 (UTC), Sylvain Robitaille wrote:

    >Helmut Hullen wrote:
    >
    >> cd /path/to/majordomo; ./wrapper config-test
    >>
    >> requests UID 123, GID 45, Path /usr/test/majordomo

    >
    >Hrmmm... Our majordomo installation here is quite extensively
    >customized, but the equivalent run here produces much more output,

    ....

    lkml and friends at vger.kernel.org use majordomo, lkml has over 4k
    members. They do fairly good spam filter as well, but I run a gmail
    account there which snags ~1900 spams/month, leaving maybe a couple
    a day coming through. Virus in email hasn't bothered me for years,
    can't get executed, and this old email/news client doesn't know how
    to render html.

    Grant.
    --
    http://bugsplatter.id.au/

  4. Re: mailinglist manager

    Hallo, Sylvain,

    Du meintest am 29.09.08:

    >> cd /path/to/majordomo; ./wrapper config-test
    >>
    >> requests UID 123, GID 45, Path /usr/test/majordomo


    > Hrmmm... Our majordomo installation here is quite extensively
    > customized, but the equivalent run here produces much more output,
    > including:


    > --------------------- euid/egid checks ---------------------
    > effective user = majordom (uid 332)
    > effective group = majordom ... (gid 332 ...)
    > ---------------------- uid/gid checks ----------------------
    > real user = majordom (uid 332)
    > real group = majordom ... (gid 332 ...)
    > ------------------------------------------------------------


    > I don't know how to imagine config-test's output from what you've
    > written above, or whether it is or isn't what you expected from the
    > configuration you haven't posted ...


    I had tried 28:28, and "wrapper config-test" stopped with an error
    message.

    (Both UID ans GID were not occupied by another user or group)

    Viele Gruesse
    Helmut

    "Ubuntu" - an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".


  5. Re: mailinglist manager

    Helmut Hullen wrote:

    > I had tried 28:28, and "wrapper config-test" stopped with an error
    > message.


    .... and that error message was ...

    --
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Sylvain Robitaille syl@alcor.concordia.ca

    Network and Systems analyst Concordia University
    Instructional & Information Technology Montreal, Quebec, Canada
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

  6. Re: mailinglist manager

    On 2008-09-27, Helmut Hullen wrote:
    >
    > which mailinglist manager is a "ready for use" tarball for slackware?
    >
    > I've searched some hours,
    >
    > mailman no slackware package (?)


    No, but mailman is incredibly easy to compile and install oneself. I
    use it at two different sites for dozens of mailing lists.

    --keith

    --
    kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
    (try just my userid to email me)
    AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
    see X- headers for PGP signature information


  7. Re: mailinglist manager

    Sabahattin Gucukoglu :
    > Handover Phist wrote:
    >> I've been following this thread since I'm going to be setting up a
    >> managed mailing list myself, and I'd like to know a bit more about why
    >> this is a masochistic choice. I've chosen it to try first. I've already
    >> got the mailing list set up in sendmail and will soon be configuring
    >> Mailman.

    >
    > Yeah, you just do that. And when you're all finished, bruised and
    > bleeding, you come back here and ask us, all tears and penitence, for
    > further advice. :-)


    Yowsa. OK, you know more on this subject than I. Let me outline what I'm
    doing. I need to send periodic mails out to a list of (currently) about
    350 people. Replies are not needed as it's a newsletter type dealie. My
    boss wants control over adding or removing names from the list. I dont
    mind him having that as I dont want to be sitting around typing or
    erasing e-mail addies all day.

    Would mailing list software be the best choice for this task? Can one
    restrict Sendmail to allow only a certain email address to mail another
    e-mail address, because if spam gets on the mailing list
    then....welll...deadly poison. Our customer base would look at us and
    spit.

    --
    World War Three can be averted by adherence to a strictly enforced
    dress code!

    www.websterscafe.com

  8. Re: mailinglist manager

    On 2008-09-28, Sabahattin Gucukoglu wrote:
    >
    > It's only when the end-users
    > mostly consist in "Normal" people that you begin to think that
    > perhaps, if nothing else, Mailman is sufficiently popular that your
    > users have a reasonable chance of using it (but is telling them to
    > email commands like "subscribe" and "help", or using a CGI interface
    > that requires registration first *really* all that hard?).


    Most lists consist of ''normal'' people. I have users who can't even
    manage to use the web interface for Mailman; if I tried to teach them
    how to use an email-command interface (which I certainly do prefer) I'd
    be answering their questions for days. Literally.

    I've also had very few complaints from people on my tech-savvy lists.
    Most of them have actually centered around the poor performance of my
    SpamAssassin configuration, which has b0rked my MTA and Mailman; but
    that's not a Mailman problem, obviously.

    --keith

    --
    kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
    (try just my userid to email me)
    AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
    see X- headers for PGP signature information


  9. Re: mailinglist manager

    Handover Phist wrote:

    > Would mailing list software be the best choice for this task? Can one
    > restrict Sendmail to allow only a certain email address to mail another
    > e-mail address, ...


    Majordomo can do that (and I imagine that Mailman can as well, but I
    don't actually know). Whether Majordomo is suitable for your situation
    depends on whether or not your boss knows how to edit a text file (most
    direct way of modifying list subscription), or whether he finds it
    "hard" to send email without HTML polution all over it (in which case
    he'll have a horrible time with Majordomo at any level; the "official"
    way of interacting with Majordomo is via commands emailed to the
    software).

    I hope that helps ...

    --
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Sylvain Robitaille syl@alcor.concordia.ca

    Network and Systems analyst / (ex)Postmaster Concordia University
    Instructional & Information Technology Montreal, Quebec, Canada
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

  10. Re: mailinglist manager

    Grant wrote:
    > lkml and friends at vger.kernel.org use majordomo, lkml has over 4k
    > members.


    It's running the (still-maintained!) Zmailer. This among other
    reasons is why I think it's important that mailing list managers let
    the MTA do the important work of actually distributing mail, because
    that's their role. The MLM just tells the MTA which addresses to
    distribute to at any given time. Zmailer is pretty well speed-
    optimised, but that discussion is definitely OT.

    Cheers,
    Sabahattin

  11. Re: mailinglist manager

    Handover Phist wrote:

    > Yowsa. OK, you know more on this subject than I. Let me outline what I'm
    > doing. I need to send periodic mails out to a list of (currently) about
    > 350 people. Replies are not needed as it's a newsletter type dealie. My
    > boss wants control over adding or removing names from the list. I dont
    > mind him having that as I dont want to be sitting around typing or
    > erasing e-mail addies all day.
    >


    Mindful that this does not cover the level of checking that Sabahattin
    discussed, but sendmail aliases might cover a lot of what you want. You
    can reference a file with a mailing list in it from aliases. If your boss
    was content editing that then job done...

    Except for limiting who can post.

    Pete

    --
    http://www.petezilla.co.uk

  12. Re: mailinglist manager

    Peter Chant :
    > Handover Phist wrote:
    >
    >> Yowsa. OK, you know more on this subject than I. Let me outline what I'm
    >> doing. I need to send periodic mails out to a list of (currently) about
    >> 350 people. Replies are not needed as it's a newsletter type dealie. My
    >> boss wants control over adding or removing names from the list. I dont
    >> mind him having that as I dont want to be sitting around typing or
    >> erasing e-mail addies all day.
    >>

    >
    > Mindful that this does not cover the level of checking that Sabahattin
    > discussed, but sendmail aliases might cover a lot of what you want. You
    > can reference a file with a mailing list in it from aliases. If your boss
    > was content editing that then job done...
    >
    > Except for limiting who can post.
    >
    > Pete


    I've gotten that far already, but the fact that anyone can e-mail that
    address and send mail to the entire list kinda creeps me out. If I can,
    through some entry in sendmail.mc or access or whatever, restrict access
    to that particular accout, I'd be a happy man indeed. Why learn new
    software when you dont have to?

    --
    HUG A REVOLUTIONARY

    www.websterscafe.com

  13. Re: mailinglist manager

    Handover Phist wrote:
    > Peter Chant :
    > > Handover Phist wrote:
    > > > Yowsa. OK, you know more on this subject than I. Let me outline what I'm
    > > > doing. I need to send periodic mails out to a list of (currently) about
    > > > 350 people. Replies are not needed as it's a newsletter type dealie. My
    > > > boss wants control over adding or removing names from the list. I dont
    > > > mind him having that as I dont want to be sitting around typing or
    > > > erasing e-mail addies all day.

    > >
    > > Mindful that this does not cover the level of checking that Sabahattin
    > > discussed, but sendmail aliases might cover a lot of what you want. You
    > > can reference a file with a mailing list in it from aliases. If your boss
    > > was content editing that then job done...
    > >
    > > Except for limiting who can post.
    > >
    > > Pete

    >
    > I've gotten that far already, but the fact that anyone can e-mail that
    > address and send mail to the entire list kinda creeps me out. If I can,
    > through some entry in sendmail.mc or access or whatever, restrict access
    > to that particular accout, I'd be a happy man indeed. Why learn new
    > software when you dont have to?


    Primarily because the alternative is to do it yourself, and the
    authors of existing mailing list managers are already well-aware of
    your problem and many others like it. They also know lots of
    complicated stuff about mail protocols and formats that you may not
    and that would anyhow bore you to death. :-)

    You *could* conceivably go modifying Sendmail and use your aliases/
    include file, add a check to the check_compat or check_rcpt rule to
    enforce a given sender's address. (Actually, this has great
    implications for avoiding either /dev/nulling or backscattering
    unwanted mail because you now have SMTP-level rejection.)

    But that still leaves you with:
    1. No *definite* forgery prevention.
    2. No automated way for users to get on or off lists.
    3. No boss-compatibility interface.
    4. No automatic bounce handling or other useful features.
    5. Entirely non-future-proof - aliases the limit.

    All of which, if you ask me, is worth installing mailing list software
    for.

    Or writing it yourself. :-) You can address each of the five points
    above individually, but here you've just reproduced a mailing list
    manager. But still, you can write a quick script to just filter posts
    for a special header; you can add it to your rulesets and produce a
    failsafe mailing list address, and you'll have most of what you want.
    So yes, you can do it with aliases if your careful in your situation.
    Don't forget to set the owner-listname contact to you, else all the
    users who bounce will return mail to the sender rather than the list
    owner. The sender can't do anything about the misdelivery from your
    system, whilst you can. (I'm not at all being condescending if you
    think I'm challenging your knowledge, just watch out for this common
    error.)

    I only have about ten users, and although my list (Ecartis on
    Sendmail) is two-way the importance of moderating external content and
    allowing users to get on or off whenever they wish hasn't really been
    clearer, because the list address gets found sooner rather than later,
    and there's always a trusted plonk who will gladly mail in the
    mandatory 3MB attachment. (Ecartis has a great feature that will post
    attached files into a directory served by your web server for users to
    pick up at their own will, thus solving the bulk bandwidth problem.)
    So for me, a mailing list manager isn't optional. And I've no gripes,
    because Ecartis is very smooth.

    Good luck with it, anyway.

    Cheers,
    Sabahattin

  14. Re: mailinglist manager

    Sabahattin Gucukoglu wrote:

    > I only have about ten users, and although my list (Ecartis on
    > Sendmail) is two-way the importance of moderating external content and
    > allowing users to get on or off whenever they wish hasn't really been
    > clearer, because the list address gets found sooner rather than later,
    > and there's always a trusted plonk who will gladly mail in the
    > mandatory 3MB attachment. (Ecartis has a great feature that will post
    > attached files into a directory served by your web server for users to
    > pick up at their own will, thus solving the bulk bandwidth problem.)
    > So for me, a mailing list manager isn't optional. And I've no gripes,
    > because Ecartis is very smooth.
    >


    You forgot the person who just marks all the messages as spam, even though
    the've been told how to unsubscribe, it was reasonable to put them on the
    list in the first place and they ought to remember that if they ask you
    will sort it anyway... Despite meeting regularly in real life, not just via
    the net!

    Pete



    --
    http://www.petezilla.co.uk

  15. Re: mailinglist manager

    Hallo, Sylvain,

    Du meintest am 29.09.08:

    >> I had tried 28:28, and "wrapper config-test" stopped with an error
    >> message.


    > ... and that error message was ...


    I tried to reproduce the error message on another machine: not
    reproducable. Strange ...

    But I won't mourn.
    Time to build a slackware package.

    Viele Gruesse
    Helmut

    "Ubuntu" - an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".


  16. Re: mailinglist manager

    Hallo, Sabahattin,

    Du meintest am 28.09.08:

    > MLMMJ is quite easy to set up if you do plus addressing, but it works
    > better on something besides Sendmail for use of the '-' extension
    > char.


    That's a little problem - I use servers which run "sendmail".

    http://mlmmj.org/man/sendmail

    doesn't look user-friendly (because it's sendmail).

    Viele Gruesse
    Helmut

    "Ubuntu" - an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".


  17. Re: mailinglist manager

    Helmut Hullen wrote:
    > Hallo, Sabahattin,
    >
    > Du meintest am 28.09.08:
    >
    > > MLMMJ is quite easy to set up if you do plus addressing, but it works
    > > better on something besides Sendmail for use of the '-' extension
    > > char.

    >
    > That's a little problem - I use servers which run "sendmail".
    >
    > http://mlmmj.org/man/sendmail
    >
    > doesn't look user-friendly (because it's sendmail).


    Yeah, it isn't, but only if you need VERP. But you're still stuck
    with '+' as your extension char, because we're Sendmail.

    If you don't like this (it was just a suggestion), then another MLM
    that doesn't need special extended addresses would be better for you.
    Personally I find listname+command@host a bit ugly/wrong, '-' is
    better but not configurable here.

    Cheers,
    Sabahattin

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