Question of setting environment variables

On Wed, 01 Oct 2008 23:24:09 -0700, Keith Keller wrote:
[color=blue]
> On 2008-10-02, Sylvain Robitaille <syl@alcor.concordia.ca> wrote:[color=green]
>> Grant wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> One of the big issues people complain about with the new Chrome
>>> browser is that it doesn't search within document for '/' keypress --
>>> Firefox and Opera have had '/' for searching within doc for ages :)[/color]
>>
>> (checks Firefox ... Holy Crap! It works! Firefox gains a point in my
>> book for adopting a well-known single-keystroke command ...)[/color][/color]

I learn something new every day. Strangely it brings up a different
search from Ctrl-F.
[color=blue]
> Double Holy Crap! It works in Firefox 3 on OS X![/color]

Did you test Safari?
[color=blue]
> Any heathens out there want to test Firefox on Windows? ;-)[/color]

What, you think we're a bunch of freaking maniacs? You want to live
dangerously, that's your look-out!

Responding to Sylvain Robitaille:

[...][color=blue]
>[color=green]
>> You're making way too much of this bit, ...[/color]
>
> You trolled. I bit. you've strung me along, changing specifications
> along the way. The line broke.
>[/color]

There has been no "stringing along" here. There has been me trying to get
my point into a shape you could grasp, and I think I've not done that
well on that task. Whenever I think "He's sure to get it now!" you end up
facing in the other direction and bogged down in "Oh no! He went for that
one!" stuff.

I keep pointing over here, and you end up looking over there each time.

Maybe we should just let it go as a communications thing?

--
*===( [url]http://principiadiscordia.com/[/url]
*===( [url]http://www.badphorm.co.uk/[/url]
*===( [url]http://www.zenwalk.org/[/url]

Loki Harfagr <l0k1@thedarkdesign.free.fr.invalid> wrote:[color=blue]
> of course that's with a real vi, not the vim-basquiatizer...[/color]

Which "real vi"?
Elvis is even more "non-standard vi compatibel" then vim (and I
like the VIM implementation much better).
I don't know (not saying there are not, of course) of any "real VI"
implementations for Linux yet, although I have used several
different ports of it to MS-Dos etc.

The only "real VI" is the BSD or optional System-V implementation
and I haven't seen any HTML adaptations in it (tried it under HP-UX,
a "real System-V Unix").

PS: vi was original implemented as a "visual" extention to the "ex"
extended (line-)editor, for the BSD port of Unix version 7 (or 6,
I forgot). That's why it still has the :<some ex-command> escapes.
--
*******************************************************************
** Eef Hartman, Delft University of Technology, dept. SSC/ICT **
** e-mail: [email]E.J.M.Hartman@tudelft.nl[/email], fax: +31-15-278 7295 **
** snail-mail: P.O. Box 5031, 2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands **
*******************************************************************

On 2008-10-02 at 03:31 ADT, Mark Madsen <mark.s.madsen+news@gmail.com> wrote:[color=blue]
> On Wed, 01 Oct 2008 19:30:42 -0300, Jim Diamond wrote:
>[color=green]
>> On 2008-09-30 at 19:43 ADT, Mark Madsen <mark.s.madsen+news@gmail.com>
>> wrote:[color=darkred]
>>> On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:30:58 +0000, Sylvain Robitaille wrote:
>>>
>>>> The only reason why the nroff/troff way of markup isn't "more widely
>>>> cross-compatible" is simply because it hasn't been as widely learned
>>>> or deployed outside of Unix/unix-like systems.
>>>
>>> That said, I have used runoff and/or and troff or clones thereof on
>>> VAX/ VMS and Univac 1100 systems.[/color]
>>
>> And the venerable "runoff" that came with the mighty PDP-10.[/color][/color]
[color=blue]
> I never had the pleasure of using the PDP-10,[/color]
My sincere condolences.
[color=blue]
> but the PDP series collection of user software was taken over
> wholesale to the VAX.[/color]
Hmmm... there was (is?) just something icky about VMS. I sometimes
wonder if VMS was the beginning of the end for DEC.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> I think when TeX became available, most people with the mindset to be
>> able to use that sort of non-wysiwyg system probably switched to using
>> plain TeX and/or LaTeX. And then word processors for everyone else...[/color]
> I used to use LaTeX not only for writing articles, but also for my
> everyday paper correspondence. Once one had a working template for a
> letter only the actual content needed to be changed.
>
> Then I went to spend a year at a computer science department (which shall
> remain nameless) where they turned out not to use TeX/LaTeX at all and we
> were all forced to use MS-Word to write scientific papers. On Apple Mac
> SEs. The experience scarred me.[/color]
I feel for you, as do others. You can hear what Marlon Brando had to
say about using m$-word here:
[url]http://cs.acadiau.ca/~jdiamond/Marlon-Brando-on-ms-word.wav[/url]
And he wasn't even talking about using it on Macintoy SEs.

Jim

On 2008-10-01, Mike <Not@Arizona.Bay> wrote:

Well, we are not going to agree on this issue. I think you're making a
mountain out of a mole hill....there are more pressing issues about man
pages and the reader isn't one of them, especially when there are viable,
simple options available.

So...with apologies to the Beatles and the rest of mankind........


When I find myself in times of trouble
Man and groff they come to me
Showing words of wisdom, let it be.
And in my hour of darkness
They are standing right in front of me
Showing words of wisdom, let it be.
Let it be, let it be.


ken

On Wed, 01 Oct 2008 23:24:09 -0700, Keith Keller sprout:
[color=blue]
> On 2008-10-02, Sylvain Robitaille <syl@alcor.concordia.ca> wrote:[color=green]
>> Grant wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> One of the big issues people complain about with the new Chrome
>>> browser is that it doesn't search within document for '/' keypress --
>>> Firefox and Opera have had '/' for searching within doc for ages :)[/color]
>>
>> (checks Firefox ... Holy Crap! It works! Firefox gains a point in my
>> book for adopting a well-known single-keystroke command ...)[/color]
>
> Double Holy Crap! It works in Firefox 3 on OS X!
>
> Any heathens out there want to test Firefox on Windows? ;-)[/color]

of course it works! The *nix world need spearheaded applications
to show the truth to the lost boys ;-)

Responding to No_One:
[color=blue]
> On 2008-10-01, Mike <Not@Arizona.Bay> wrote:
>
> Well, we are not going to agree on this issue. I think you're making a
> mountain out of a mole hill....there are more pressing issues about man
> pages and the reader isn't one of them, especially when there are
> viable, simple options available.
>
> So...with apologies to the Beatles and the rest of mankind........
>
>
> When I find myself in times of trouble Man and groff they come to me
> Showing words of wisdom, let it be.
> And in my hour of darkness
> They are standing right in front of me Showing words of wisdom, let it
> be.
> Let it be, let it be.
>
>
> ken[/color]


1: I didn't write the above. (Quote something already!)

2: I think you're near enough right.

3: :)

--
*===( [url]http://principiadiscordia.com/[/url]
*===( [url]http://www.badphorm.co.uk/[/url]
*===( [url]http://www.zenwalk.org/[/url]

Mike <Not@arizona.bay> wrote:[color=blue]
> Responding to Jerry Peters:
>[color=green]
>> Mike <Not@arizona.bay> wrote:[color=darkred]
>>> Responding to Jerry Peters:
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>>
>>>> Slack is a "minor" distro because you actually have to work at
>>>> mastering it. It is not a point & click type process with a lot of
>>>> hand-holding. The reward is a system that can be customized to work
>>>> exactly as you want it to.
>>>>
>>>> Jerry
>>>
>>>
>>> Actually, if you also count the derivatives, Slackware is a base for
>>> quite a few projects, and the base for at least a couple of serious
>>> challengers for the Ubuntu "Its not Windows but..." products.
>>>
>>> Zenwalk is my (current) derivative of choice, but Vector is pretty
>>> sophisticated, and there are others worth looking at too.
>>>
>>> Slackware might not be as visible as some distros, but its there, and
>>> in more places than one might expect.
>>>[/color]
>> Yeah, it seems Ubuntu & its derivatives are getting most of the press
>> these days, along with RH/Fedora.
>>
>> If I wanted something that acts almost exactly like Windows, I'd just
>> _use_ Windows.
>>
>> Jerry[/color]
>
>
> No dude, you wouldn't. Nobody is that insane.
>
> You'd use DedRat/Fedupwith, Whoburntwho, or similar.
>
> Be realistic. ;)[/color]

And miss the "benefits" of Windows Genuine disAdvantage?
Not to mention the incomprehensible error messages and the
interminable wait while the damn thing starts up.

I actually have a WinXP machine, BTW, for the rare things that reuqire
it. It hasn't been turned on in several months; the first thing it'll
do when I eventually do turn it on is spend the next hour or two
downloading "security" fixes.

Jerry

Jerry Peters wrote:[color=blue]
> I actually have a WinXP machine, BTW, for the rare things that reuqire
> it. It hasn't been turned on in several months; the first thing it'll
> do when I eventually do turn it on is spend the next hour or two
> downloading "security" fixes.[/color]

Uh, you're really lucky! If it were *buntu you could easily spend twice
as much time.

Rupa

Responding to Jerry Peters:

[...][color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>>
>>> If I wanted something that acts almost exactly like Windows, I'd just
>>> _use_ Windows.
>>>
>>> Jerry[/color]
>>
>>
>> No dude, you wouldn't. Nobody is that insane.
>>
>> You'd use DedRat/Fedupwith, Whoburntwho, or similar.
>>
>> Be realistic. ;)[/color]
>
> And miss the "benefits" of Windows Genuine disAdvantage? Not to mention
> the incomprehensible error messages and the interminable wait while the
> damn thing starts up.
>
> I actually have a WinXP machine, BTW, for the rare things that reuqire
> it. It hasn't been turned on in several months; the first thing it'll do
> when I eventually do turn it on is spend the next hour or two
> downloading "security" fixes.
>
> Jerry[/color]


Enjoy. You're going to be there a while...

[url]http://images.wikia.com/uncyclopedia/images/4/45/Errors.png[/url]


--
*===( [url]http://principiadiscordia.com/[/url]
*===( [url]http://www.badphorm.co.uk/[/url]
*===( [url]http://www.zenwalk.org/[/url]

On 2008-10-02, Mike <Not@Arizona.Bay> wrote:[color=blue]
> Responding to Sylvain Robitaille:
>
> [...][color=green]
>>[color=darkred]
>>> You're making way too much of this bit, ...[/color]
>>
>> You trolled. I bit. you've strung me along, changing specifications
>> along the way. The line broke.
>>[/color]
>
> There has been no "stringing along" here. There has been me trying to get
> my point into a shape you could grasp, and I think I've not done that
> well on that task. Whenever I think "He's sure to get it now!" you end up
> facing in the other direction and bogged down in "Oh no! He went for that
> one!" stuff.
>
> I keep pointing over here, and you end up looking over there each time.
>
> Maybe we should just let it go as a communications thing?
>[/color]

The nicest thing about man, and its maturity is that it can be found on
nearly all unix-like systems. It works more or less the same on all that
systems, because the interface to 'more' or 'less' is virtually the same.

Mike, may I ask you what program you use to view the content of text files?
Is it perhaps 'less'? Or maybe 'more'?
I believe most newbie's also use more or less, maybe a few use view, to show
the contents of large files.

The point is, that there is nothing different about showing a normal text
file with 'less' and showing a manpage with 'less'.

Besides, I use PageUp and PageDown in 'less' to scroll up and down. Heck
even the cursor-keys seem to work with 'less'.
Ok, searching within a manpage needs to be taught and is not really
intuitive if you are not familiar with it, but `man less` would soon
show you how to do it.

Then there is also the point of configuring your system. I don't want to
have a browser on a server that has no need for webaccess. It only imposes
a possible security risc. *roff and less/more are available on almost any
system, so there would be no need to install another app just to view
your manpages on a server.

Blikjeham wrote:[color=blue]
> Ok, searching within a manpage needs to be taught and is not really
> intuitive if you are not familiar with it, but `man less` would soon
> show you how to do it.[/color]

or just hit 'h' in less: it tells you anything you need to know about using
less.


--
Joost Kremers [email]joostkremers@yahoo.com[/email]
Selbst in die Unterwelt dringt durch Spalten Licht
EN:SiS(9)

On Wed, 01 Oct 2008 20:56:05 GMT,
Mike <Not@Arizona.Bay> wrote:[color=blue]
>
> Its a basic tool. Granted its got lots of things you can do with
> it IF you know how to use them AND yo know they're there. T'aint
> newbie stuff though, and it IS a PITA when you're trying to
> focus on something else, and you have to learn yet more
> app-specific syntax and commands just to find a basic bit of
> information.
>
> Its really not that intuitive at all if you never spent the time
> learning it's peculiarities.
>
> People are not born knowing how to read a man page, and its not
> a genetic skill that develops with adulthood. It is, however,
> yet another thing to (have to) learn, and for the trivial reason
> that its documentation is in a format from another planet, and
> it's reader has it's own unique and invisible interface.[/color]

Okay, I just have to ask. Are you *intentionally* inverting
apostrophe usage in "its" and "it's"?

--
Theodore (Ted) Heise <theo@heise.nu> Bloomington, IN, USA

Blikjeham wrote:
[color=blue]
> Then there is also the point of configuring your system. I don't want
> to have a browser on a server that has no need for webaccess. It only
> imposes a possible security risc.[/color]

I would ask, though, what "security risk" is posed by installing a web
browser that is never used to access content outside the local system
(especially if used only as an unprivileged user)?
[color=blue]
> *roff and less/more are available on almost any system, so there would
> be no need to install another app just to view your manpages on a
> server.[/color]

Agreed.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sylvain Robitaille [email]syl@alcor.concordia.ca[/email]

Network and Systems analyst Concordia University
Instructional & Information Technology Montreal, Quebec, Canada
----------------------------------------------------------------------