Newer thinking about computers has arrived ( GOOGLE'S CHROME) - Slackware

This is a discussion on Newer thinking about computers has arrived ( GOOGLE'S CHROME) - Slackware ; Michael Black wrote: > > On Sat, 6 Sep 2008, Sidney Lambe wrote: > >> Two Ravens wrote: >>> ^OvO^ wrote: >>> >>>> The Google =A0Chrome Web Browser parodox =A0will change the way >>>> _all OS's_ interact with the Internet. ...

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Thread: Newer thinking about computers has arrived ( GOOGLE'S CHROME)

  1. Re: Newer thinking about computers has arrived ( GOOGLE'S CHROME)

    Michael Black wrote:
    >
    > On Sat, 6 Sep 2008, Sidney Lambe wrote:
    >
    >> Two Ravens wrote:
    >>> ^OvO^ wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> The Google =A0Chrome Web Browser parodox =A0will change the way
    >>>> _all OS's_ interact with the Internet.
    >>>
    >>> *Only* if the user of the OS installs the browser. If you can't
    >>> understand this, don't worry, ask here and if you're lucky
    >>> someone will explain to you that GNU/Linux is all about choice.
    >>>

    >>
    >> If websites incorporate features that are only accessible by Chrome,
    >> as they did with IE, then you won't have any choice but to use
    >> Chrome until Linux browsers catch up. That could be difficult or
    >> even impossible, and would certainly take a long time.
    >>
    >> So the fellow you are responding to is right.
    >>

    > But isn't he babbling about something that's already in place to
    > an extent, something that was common in the past and to which there
    > have been various forays into in recent years?


    Yes, although I wouldn't characterize it as "babble". He just isn't
    very articulate/literate. His thinking is basically sound.

    The corporations are always trying to control the internet by
    forcing people to use their software.

    > Gmail being the obvious. DOn't bother running a mailreader on your
    > computer, keep it at some central location along with the email,
    > and then you can use a really simple computer to access it (hah!),
    > and can check your email from your mobile phone or a friend's computer,
    > or some guy over in the coffee shop with the laptop.


    That's not true. Myself and many others use gmail's pop servers and
    a mail client like mutt.

    http://mail.google.com/support/bin/a...n&answer=13273

    http://mail.google.com/support/bin/a...n&answer=13287

    http://mail.google.com/support/bin/a...n&answer=10350

    >
    > Of course, as I just posted, it's no different from when I dialed
    > in to my ISP and had shell access, so the mailreader was on the ISP's
    > computer.
    >
    > It all used to be that way, then it changed so more was done on
    > the very smart home computer. Then groups like Sun and Microsoft
    > want to shift it back to mainframes, without that much success.
    > Meanwhile, google has been doing it slowly and without making any
    > fuss about it, and infiltrating the world. The browser is just
    > a summation of what's come before. They want you to run that browser,
    > and then everything else that you'd do at your home computer is
    > on google's computers.


    That is certainly true. Are we going to let them? Is there any way
    to stop them without creating an alternative internet?

    Sid



  2. Re: Newer thinking about computers has arrived ( GOOGLE'S CHROME)

    Michael Black wrote:
    There's nothing new about what you are yammering about.

    ANd it's a cycle that's been going on for decades. Mainframe, personal computer, move more back to the mainframe, move the mainframe OS to your
    computer, move the computing back to the mainframe.

    The fact that this isn't anything new significantly dimishes the hype
    you are spewing here.

    ** Michael

    As seen by ^@v@^ :



    Then maybe you should have stayed with the BBS's. :-\ The name computers was then, but something else (as yet un-named) is now. * no matter how hard many people may try to remain in the past, time moves on without them. Google intends to tie their Googleearth and Search engine into that Chrome thingy. Zip codes may become GPS coordinates... HELL, I don't know! ^@v@^ (I C, do U C 2) ? -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ There are none so blind as those who do not want to see, and close their feeble mind, and eyes, ever tighter to see even less... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


  3. Re: Newer thinking about computers has arrived ( GOOGLE'S CHROME)

    On Sat, 6 Sep 2008 18:14:46 -0400, Michael Black wrote:

    ....
    >Kid, until 1999, all my on-line experience was with the actual software
    >running elsewhere. First there were BBSs, and then when I got full
    >internet access in 1996, I had shell access at my ISP. I simply ran
    >a terminal program. Ironically, I ended up losing shell access when
    >that ISP was attacked (some say it was "Mafiaboy") in early September
    >1999, the ISP claiming it was no longer safe to keep the shell going.
    >And I lost some of the email and files that I'd kept at the ISP.
    >
    >Ever since I started using Linux in mid-2001, I in effect moved
    >the shell to my end. I'm still using Pine that I started using on
    >the ISP way back in 1996, and I'm still using Lynx that I started
    >using the same time, a text only browser that is fine virtually
    >all the time.


    I started with a service called discovery80, called that 'cos it was
    80 column text screen, superseding the previous discovery40 service
    for people using TV for monitor Shell access and no ftp, one used
    archie to locate files and requested an ftp file via an ftpmail gateway
    which snagged the file, chopped it up and sent it as email -- much
    like usenet binaries. )
    >
    >There's nothing new about what you are yammering about.


    Agree.

    Chrome is a nice browser, my web site looks the same in it as it does
    for any decent browser whether firefox / konqueror in slackware or the
    various windoze offerings (except msie <7, who cares
    >
    >ANd it's a cycle that's been going on for decades. Mainframe, personal
    >computer, move more back to the mainframe, move the mainframe OS to your
    >computer, move the computing back to the mainframe.


    Chrome is no move to another new world, just another browser, the user
    gets to choose where the surf with the thing. I still use Firefox,
    Opera, Safari -- each browser has its merits -- Chrome uses the Safari
    rendering engine (Apple webkit) -- so it's hardly any revolution even
    on a technical level. Just a no-nonsense browser without the bling.
    Google say it'll be on linux soon.

    Grant.
    --
    Cats, no less liquid than their shadows, offer no angles to the wind.

  4. Re: Newer thinking about computers has arrived ( GOOGLE'S CHROME)

    On Sat, 06 Sep 2008 14:31:11 -0700, Sidney Lambe wrote:

    >Two Ravens wrote:
    >> ^OvO^ wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>> The Google *Chrome Web Browser parodox *will change the way
    >>> _all OS's_ interact with the Internet.

    >>
    >> *Only* if the user of the OS installs the browser. If you can't
    >> understand this, don't worry, ask here and if you're lucky
    >> someone will explain to you that GNU/Linux is all about choice.
    >>

    >
    >If websites incorporate features that are only accessible by Chrome,
    >as they did with IE, then you won't have any choice but to use
    >Chrome until Linux browsers catch up. That could be difficult or
    >even impossible, and would certainly take a long time.


    Wont happen, Chrome is standards compliant using known technologies
    now getting web sites away from being designed to suit bugs -- that's
    a problem.

    Grant.
    --
    Cats, no less liquid than their shadows, offer no angles to the wind.

  5. Re: Newer thinking about computers has arrived ( GOOGLE'S CHROME)

    Grant wrote:
    > On Sat, 06 Sep 2008 14:31:11 -0700, Sidney Lambe wrote:
    >
    >>Two Ravens wrote:
    >>> ^OvO^ wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> The Google *Chrome Web Browser parodox *will change the way
    >>>> _all OS's_ interact with the Internet.
    >>>
    >>> *Only* if the user of the OS installs the browser. If you can't
    >>> understand this, don't worry, ask here and if you're lucky
    >>> someone will explain to you that GNU/Linux is all about choice.
    >>>

    >>
    >>If websites incorporate features that are only accessible by Chrome,
    >>as they did with IE, then you won't have any choice but to use
    >>Chrome until Linux browsers catch up. That could be difficult or
    >>even impossible, and would certainly take a long time.

    >
    > Wont happen, Chrome is standards compliant using known technologies


    Whose standards? Not mine. They are standards basically set by Microsoft
    that require browsers to be so complex that it takes a team of developers
    years to write a new one.

    > now getting web sites away from being designed to suit bugs -- that's
    > a problem.


    I think those "bugs" are what I am talking about. Enough sites use them
    and pretty soon they are "standard", right? Isn't that how it has worked
    in the past?

    The sites use them then Microsoft builds browsers that accomodate
    them and you have new standards. I'll bet those "bugs" come from
    Microsoft in the first place. What would that take? An anonymous
    encrypted email with some code in it and maybe the numbers and
    info of an anonymous credit card that accesses an account with
    bucks in it.

    Sid


  6. Re: Newer thinking about computers has arrived ( GOOGLE'S CHROME)

    Grant wrote:
    > Chrome is no move to another new world, just another browser, the user
    > gets to choose where the surf with the thing.


    well, it may turn out that chrome is just another browser, but i don't
    think it's too far-fetched to say that google is at least *trying* to move
    applications away from the desktop and onto the web. and chrome seems to me
    to be part of this strategy. i suspect it will eventually be tied very
    closely to the various on-line services that google provides.

    i mean, why would the tab bar appear *above* the menu bar? the idea, i
    suspect, is that eventually each tab can define its own set of buttons, or
    rather, a web app running in a tab can replace the browser's controls with
    its own. the tab bar then becomes essentially a taskbar, and it would be
    unintuitive to have the taskbar sitting in between the menus/buttons and
    the app.

    fact that each tab in chrome runs (or can run) in a separate process points
    to the same conclusion: chrome is being designed to run applications, not
    just to show web pages. if your mail app crashes, you don't want your word
    processor, presentation software and music player to go down with it. tabs
    in separate processes is hardly an advantage in a browser that's just used
    to view web pages, especially if that browser can simply restore the
    session after a crash. but if you use the browser like a virtual machine,
    it's a whole different thing.

    of course, nothing about this is terribly new in the sense that no-one has
    thought of it before. obviously, lots of people are saying that this is the
    future of computing. with chrome, google probably wants to achieve two
    goals: push the world a little faster toward this future than it would
    normally go, and gain more control over the user's environment by providing
    not only the apps but also the virtual machine in which they run.

    wether things will actually develop in that direction is a very different
    question, of course.


    --
    Joost Kremers joostkremers@yahoo.com
    Selbst in die Unterwelt dringt durch Spalten Licht
    EN:SiS(9)

  7. Re: Newer thinking about computers has arrived ( GOOGLE'S CHROME)

    On Sat, 06 Sep 2008 14:31:11 -0700, Sidney Lambe wrote:

    > If websites incorporate features that are only accessible by Chrome, as
    > they did with IE, then you won't have any choice but to use Chrome until
    > Linux browsers catch up. That could be difficult or even impossible, and
    > would certainly take a long time.
    >
    > So the fellow you are responding to is right.


    Only if one *wnats* the so-called 'features', 'Lynx still sems to work OK
    for me, is this suddenly going to become obsolete? The "fellow" I, and
    others, are responding to thinks that the sky is going to fall down on
    his head.



    --
    Two Ravens
    "...hit the squirrel..."

  8. Re: Newer thinking about computers has arrived ( GOOGLE'S CHROME)

    On Sat, 06 Sep 2008 15:56:42 -0700, ^OvO^ wrote:

    > Google intends to tie in their Googleearth and
    > Search engine into Chrome...


    Shouldn't you be cross-posting to alt.illuminati and alt.conspiracy,
    where people will be *really* interested?

    --
    Two Ravens
    "...hit the squirrel..."

  9. Re: Newer thinking about computers has arrived ( GOOGLE'S CHROME)

    Two Ravens wrote:
    > On Sat, 06 Sep 2008 14:31:11 -0700, Sidney Lambe wrote:
    >
    >> If websites incorporate features that are only accessible by Chrome, as
    >> they did with IE, then you won't have any choice but to use Chrome until
    >> Linux browsers catch up. That could be difficult or even impossible, and
    >> would certainly take a long time.
    >>
    >> So the fellow you are responding to is right.


    I should have said that he *could* prove to be right.

    >
    > Only if one *wnats* the so-called 'features', 'Lynx still sems to work OK
    > for me, is this suddenly going to become obsolete? The "fellow" I, and
    > others, are responding to thinks that the sky is going to fall down on
    > his head.


    I use links most of the time myself. And it could very well
    become obsolete. More and more I keep encountering websites that
    are in flash files. There's nothing else there. Links/Lynx are
    useless on such sites. I guess you could call a flash app like
    gnash from the text mode browser, but it still wouldn't be using
    the browser in the sense we are referring to.

    There are even more sites with flash files that are an integral
    part of them, and the text mode browsers miss most of what's
    going on there.

    Considering the trends in websites, I have to say again that
    the original poster could be right. What can we do about it?
    You have to deal with whatever the webmasters put up or pass
    on the site. And what the webmasters use is often determined
    by the webhosting service they are leasing the space from. Each
    of them have their own standards.

    As far as I am concerned, the sky has already fallen down
    on our heads. The web is a mess that takes a browser that
    is considerably larger than the early linuxes to access
    effectively.

    Sorry, but that's the way I feel about it.

    Sid



  10. Re: Newer thinking about computers has arrived ( GOOGLE'S CHROME)

    Two Ravens wrote:
    > On Sat, 06 Sep 2008 15:56:42 -0700, ^OvO^ wrote:
    >
    >> Google intends to tie in their Googleearth and
    >> Search engine into Chrome...

    >
    > Shouldn't you be cross-posting to alt.illuminati and alt.conspiracy,
    > where people will be *really* interested?
    >


    :-) Come on! You are being much too hard on this fellow. He
    has made some good points that have spawned an interesting
    discussion.

    Besides, I think the tin foil hat is cute.

    (I couldn't resist.)

    Sid


  11. Re: Newer thinking about computers has arrived ( GOOGLE'S CHROME)

    On Sat, 06 Sep 2008 21:49:29 +0000, ray wrote:

    > Hundreds of people using the software on one computer is hardly
    > revolutionary. It's an idea that went out in the early 80's as hardware
    > become cheap enough for everyone to have a computer rather than just a
    > dumb terminal.


    I didn't even bother reading the article. First off it was the kind of
    exaggeration often made when trying to generate a market.

    Second off it's absolute nonsense. I sometimes spend 7-8 hours on one
    video capture -recoding, dubbing, and finally authoring a DVD. I'm sure
    plenty others do other tasks that are just as complex and time
    consuming.

    This guy is shooting for the market that only requires a "network
    appliance", a sort of smart toaster oven. It's limited functionality is
    ideal for those with limited computer expertise and job load, i.e., the
    dummies.

    Anyone who really pushes the envelope - Video, Numerical Methods, ACAD,
    CAM, controlling multiple mechanical systems could never get by with
    such a primitive tool as that. I say primitive because it's a giant
    step back like stepping down from a PC back to a slide rule.


    --
    Email - rsgibson@verizon.borg
    Replace borg with net
    "Ubuntu" - an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".


  12. Re: Newer thinking about computers has arrived ( GOOGLE'S CHROME)

    Ron Gibson wrote:
    > On Sat, 06 Sep 2008 21:49:29 +0000, ray wrote:
    >
    >> Hundreds of people using the software on one computer is hardly
    >> revolutionary. It's an idea that went out in the early 80's as hardware
    >> become cheap enough for everyone to have a computer rather than just a
    >> dumb terminal.

    >
    > I didn't even bother reading the article. First off it was the kind of
    > exaggeration often made when trying to generate a market.
    >
    > Second off it's absolute nonsense. I sometimes spend 7-8 hours on one
    > video capture -recoding, dubbing, and finally authoring a DVD. I'm sure
    > plenty others do other tasks that are just as complex and time
    > consuming.
    >
    > This guy is shooting for the market that only requires a "network
    > appliance", a sort of smart toaster oven. It's limited functionality is
    > ideal for those with limited computer expertise and job load, i.e., the
    > dummies.
    >
    > Anyone who really pushes the envelope - Video, Numerical Methods, ACAD,
    > CAM, controlling multiple mechanical systems could never get by with
    > such a primitive tool as that. I say primitive because it's a giant
    > step back like stepping down from a PC back to a slide rule.
    >
    >


    It's not a giant step back if you want to control the Internet.

    You seem to know your stuff, so I'd like to ask you a question, if
    I may, that's loosely related to this issue.

    Do we really need ISPs? Is there any reason, other than corporate
    greed and control, that we can't just hook up to the internet through
    simple routers?

    Thanks,

    Sid

    --
    My newsfilter kills all threads and subthreads
    originating with a post from googlegroups.
    See: http://tinyurl.com/5n3vt6

  13. Re: Newer thinking ( GOOGLE'S CHROME)

    On Fri, 12 Sep 2008, Mike wrote:

    >> A better model would be for each community to have their own intranet,
    >> and a router to connect to adjacent intranets, the sum of all of them
    >> being the Internet. All under local control.

    >
    > Sounds like a recipice for either multiple broken standards in
    > competition with each other, and/or a blueprint for a fractured form of
    > communism to me. I might be mis-reading your post though.



    Yikes! He wants us to go backwards? Afterall, thats how things started
    out, different intranets linking together.


    --
    Cheers
    Res

    "The hopes we had, were much to high, way out of reach, but we have to
    try, no need to hide, no need to run, cause all the answers come one by
    one. The game will never be over, because we're keeping the dream alive"
    -Freiheit

  14. Re: Newer thinking ( GOOGLE'S CHROME)

    Sidney Lambe wrote:
    >
    > You want some Big Daddy to impose order on the 'peasants', which is
    > much more like communism than what I've suggested.


    Big Daddy imposing order on the 'peasants' is pretty much what you see in
    any government. Communism is the elimination of personal property. Because
    a small percentage of people actually have ambition and drive, communism
    then requires Big Daddy to impose such a lack of personal property.

    BTW, there has never existed a true communist society. We are all "evolving"
    towards such an existence, like it or not - even the U.S....

    - Kurt

  15. Re: Newer thinking ( GOOGLE'S CHROME)

    ~kurt wrote:
    > Sidney Lambe wrote:
    >>
    >> You want some Big Daddy to impose order on the 'peasants', which is
    >> much more like communism than what I've suggested.

    >
    > Big Daddy imposing order on the 'peasants' is pretty much what you see in
    > any government. Communism is the elimination of personal property. Because
    > a small percentage of people actually have ambition and drive, communism
    > then requires Big Daddy to impose such a lack of personal property.


    Except for the personal property of the elite rulers, the animals that are
    "more equal" than the other animals, if you remember your Orwell.

    Communism is an attempt to make the economy and culture of a tiny village
    of hunter-gatherers/farmers/herders work on a large scale, and it doesn't.

    So you get a system that is so much like the so-called 'democracy' of the
    West that the Soviets had no trouble at all becoming Capitalists after
    the U.S.S.R. allegedly collapsed.

    > BTW, there has never existed a true communist society.


    Except for the self-sufficient hunter-gatherer/farmer/herder villages that
    have formed the mainstay of human existence throughout most of our
    history.

    There were, and are, alliances of large numbers of these
    villages, cultural and defensive alliances, that could reasonably
    be called small communist societies. Tribes, if you will. But
    each village is self-sufficient in all of the basics. No
    real trading, as we understand it, goes on.

    > We are all "evolving"
    > towards such an existence, like it or not - even the U.S....
    >
    > - Kurt


    I think the world is becoming the vast third-world country it
    has been for almost everyone for ages. It's just coming _here_.
    now. We used to be able to keep our de facto slaves and much of
    our environmental damage and warfare tastefully out of our way in
    undeveleped countries around the globe.

    I suppose you could call it corporate communism. Labels are just
    labels. What you'll have is a half a billion haves (middle-class
    and above) being served by six and half billion have-nots.

    Sid

    --
    My newsfilter kills all threads and subthreads
    originating with a post from googlegroups.
    See: http://tinyurl.com/5n3vt6

  16. Re: Newer thinking ( GOOGLE'S CHROME)

    On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 18:29:08 -0700, Sidney Lambe wrote:

    > I suppose you could call it corporate communism. Labels are just
    > labels. What you'll have is a half a billion haves (middle-class
    > and above) being served by six and half billion have-nots.


    How about we label you a retarded ****ing whack-job, and tell you to take
    your political bull**** somewhere else.

    How about you just **** right off, and leave.


    --
    "Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
    The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org


  17. Re: Newer thinking ( GOOGLE'S CHROME)

    Sidney Lambe wrote:

    [...]

    > It occurs to me that it might be possible to create this ideal Internet
    > by leasing channels on satellites.


    [...]

    > I hope that makes sense.


    No. Think about the ping

    --
    No sig available.

  18. Re: Newer thinking ( GOOGLE'S CHROME)

    tTh wrote:
    > Sidney Lambe wrote:
    >
    > [...]
    >
    >> It occurs to me that it might be possible to create this ideal Internet
    >> by leasing channels on satellites.

    >
    > [...]
    >
    >> I hope that makes sense.

    >
    > No. Think about the ping
    >


    :-)

    Seriously, isn't that possible? I know that some of the big ISPs offer
    Internet connections via satellite. And radio stations lease channels on them,
    like Sirius. Might mean forming a corporation, but that's just paperwork.

    > --
    > No sig available.


    Now wait a minute...

    Sid

    --
    My newsfilter kills all threads and subthreads
    originating with a post from googlegroups.
    See: http://tinyurl.com/5n3vt6

  19. Re: Newer thinking ( GOOGLE'S CHROME)

    Sidney Lambe wrote:
    >
    > I'd like to welcome you to my killfile, with the rest of the ignorant
    > and obnoxious losers with computers who spend their lives running
    > their punk mouths on the Internet.


    Not sure why you spent so much time replying to me then. Not sure why
    you have gotten yourself so spun up either - must be another one of those
    people with a really fragile ego?

    Where have you lived - or do you get everything you know out of a book?
    I've actually lived around the world, including a communist country.

    - Kurt

  20. Re: Newer thinking ( GOOGLE'S CHROME)

    On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 11:19:22 -0700, Sidney Lambe wrote:

    > I'd like to welcome you to my killfile, with the rest of the ignorant
    > and obnoxious losers with computers who spend their lives running
    > their punk mouths on the Internet.


    Ahh HAH!

    You *are* Alan Connor! The dip**** who made his presence known here not
    long ago as "Tom Newton". Yup. You can't resist using your trademark
    phrases, can you?

    Bugger off, you psychotic ****ing loser. You're outed (again).


    --
    "Tom N" ("Tom Newton") - the latest nymshift of "Alan Connor".
    Read more about the netkook Alan Connor here:
    http://www.pearlgates.net/nanae/kooks/ac/fga.shtml
    Email him: calhobbit@gmail.com or simpleman.s43@gmail.com

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