Re: login new user ? - Slackware

This is a discussion on Re: login new user ? - Slackware ; On Wed, 3 Sep 2008, problems@gmail wrote: > > I always run as root, because the continual set-up changes > > need the facilities of root. Michael Black wrote:- > YOu aren't even clear there. Are you saying "since I ...

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Thread: Re: login new user ?

  1. Re: login new user ?

    On Wed, 3 Sep 2008, problems@gmail wrote:
    > > I always run as root, because the continual set-up changes
    > > need the facilities of root.


    Michael Black wrote:-
    > YOu aren't even clear there. Are you saying "since I have to
    > constantly get root privilege to change things, I might
    > as well be root all the time" or "waa, waa, waa, it's too much
    > trouble to configure things so I don't have to be root to run
    > things so I'll run as root"?


    Apparently I *am* clear because you've understood well.

    > you may find you can run a program
    > for years or decades and not do any configuring.


    You may find you can cross the road blindfolded.
    I'm asking for a reliable method.
    Statistically a lot of root-permission is required to get
    non-mainstream [what the herd/kiddies use] packages
    running.

    > Note also that a lot of programs either have local configuration
    > files or allow for them. So except for global configuration, you
    > can set that application you like just the way you want it from
    > your user account.


    If you do the cost benefit analysis, you'll have to consider:
    * does the package work at all,
    * does it do what it want,
    * can I amortise the setup/configuration costs
    We all rationally want to taste-before-comitting ?

    > It's really quite simple. And the thing is, it is safe. If you've
    > got a Big Mult-user System, you want that ability to control who
    > has access. You don't want a random person sliding a CDROM into
    > the machine. But as a desktop user, you can give yourself access
    > to all the things, yet still keep the security.
    >

    I'm asking for a solution for MY circumstances.
    Not YOUR imagined circumstances.

    > > Now I want to setup some other 'users', mainly to get the
    > > default file locations spread around different/better
    > > 'roots'. So eg. If I login as emacs, then I'll get emacs'
    > > files defaulting to /home/emacs.

    >
    > What's the point of this? I think this is a reflection of
    > the cluelessness of your first point, but I'm not sure. If you
    > have emacs running as one user, and your browser in another,
    > then you can edit all you like, but you won't have anything
    > valuable to edit, because they'll be elsewhere.


    Are you saying that emacs, app-X, app-Y will NOT have
    mutual write-permission, so interacting will be
    problematic ? I'd hope the be able to use root-mode
    to do any such interaction.

    Chris F.A. Johnson whose scripts help fetch my https without
    the eye-candy of 'your browser', for my expensive dialup
    wrote:-
    > Log in as emacs; switch to root with:
    >
    > xterm -e sudo -i


    OK, but that would only give me 2: emacs & root.
    I want more: A,B,C ... & root.
    And switching should be fast because I may only spend
    a few seconds in each. Eg. to cut some text out of A's
    home and paste it in B's home-dir.

    If I was in VT-mode instead of X, I could quickly switch
    between the different /home/ s
    And gpm can 'carry text' between users and apps.

    > > I just want to quickly toggle between 'root' & 'emacs' users.


    Maxwell Lol wrote:-
    > Lots of ways. You can have different tabs in a XTERM-like window.


    What is the meaning of this new word "tab" which all the kiddies
    are using these days ?

    > You can have different XTERM windows running as different users.


    That's what I want. AFAIK, under KDE & gnome when I 'add' an
    extra xterm/s it's 'under' the same user ?

    > You can have different virtual desktops and switch between them.


    And again they ALL are 'descendants' of their ONE login-ID ?

    == Chris Glur.

    PS. another 'optimisation' which works for me, since I'm
    operating from 3rd world, with an expensive dial-up:
    always cross-post general linux queries to 'slak' because:
    it's a low volume group and you only need to fetch a few
    headers, to get your replies, and slak-users tend to be less
    mainstream [follow the herd] and there are some mad
    dogs there, whose uncontolled barking will confirm that
    your post arrived.



  2. Re: login new user ?

    On Thu, 04 Sep 2008 03:04:52 -0500, problems wrote:

    > Statistically a lot of root-permission is required to get non-mainstream
    > [what the herd/kiddies use] packages running.


    Bull****, n00b.

    > I'm asking for a solution for MY circumstances. Not YOUR imagined
    > circumstances.


    I bet your shrink can help you with that.

    >> Lots of ways. You can have different tabs in a XTERM-like window.


    > What is the meaning of this new word "tab" which all the kiddies are
    > using these days ?


    LOL. Are you really "Alan Connor" posting under yet another name?

    Bugger off, you ignorant stooge.


    --
    "Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
    The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org


  3. Re: login new user ?

    ["Followup-To:" header set to alt.os.linux.slackware.]

    problems@gmail wrote:

    > Statistically a lot of root-permission is required to get
    > non-mainstream [what the herd/kiddies use] packages running.


    Such as ...?

    (some apps I use require root privilege for real-time operation, but you
    haven't given any specific examples, and there certainly are ways to get
    that root privilege per-process without "operating as root" generally.)

    > I'm asking for a solution for MY circumstances.
    > Not YOUR imagined circumstances.


    Your tone is not likely to cause too many to jump up to offer assistance.
    You've indicated that you want to work in a manner that is far from what
    anyone (worth paying attention to) would recommend, and then you respond
    as above to the assistance offered by others. No doubt you can find
    your own solution without any help then.

    > Are you saying that emacs, app-X, app-Y will NOT have mutual
    > write-permission, so interacting will be problematic ?


    That depends on how you setup group memberships, file and directory
    permissions, umasks, etc. What you seem to be trying to do seems (to me
    at least) to be much more complicated than it would be if you just set
    yourself up a per-user account and used your applications that way.

    > I'd hope the be able to use root-mode to do any such interaction.


    Ok, then ...

    > OK, but that would only give me 2: emacs & root.
    > I want more: A,B,C ... & root.


    login as "problem". open an xterm. switch to any other user with su.
    You'll need to know the other user's password (or you might as well set
    them up without passwords; it wouldn't be worse than operating as root
    as a matter of course).

    > And switching should be fast because I may only spend
    > a few seconds in each. Eg. to cut some text out of A's
    > home and paste it in B's home-dir.


    Seems to me it would be a lot easier to just operate as one non-root
    user, but hey, don't let my "imagination" get in your way ...

    > What is the meaning of this new word "tab" which all the kiddies
    > are using these days ?
    > ...
    > That's what I want. AFAIK, under KDE & gnome when I 'add' an
    > extra xterm/s it's 'under' the same user ?


    What's the meaning of these new words "KDE" and "gnome" which all the
    kiddies are using these days?

    If you're such an old hand, perhaps you've already looked at "man su"?

    > always cross-post general linux queries to 'slak' because:
    > it's a low volume group and you only need to fetch a few
    > headers, to get your replies, and slak-users tend to be less
    > mainstream [follow the herd] and there are some mad
    > dogs there, whose uncontolled barking will confirm that
    > your post arrived.


    Ah yes ... outed. Hi Al.

    The best advice that was given in this thread was apparently ignored:

    Joost Kremers suggested you read a book.

    --
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Sylvain Robitaille syl@alcor.concordia.ca

    Network and Systems analyst Concordia University
    Instructional & Information Technology Montreal, Quebec, Canada
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

  4. Re: login new user ?

    problems@gmail wrote:
    > You may find you can cross the road blindfolded.
    > I'm asking for a reliable method.
    > Statistically a lot of root-permission is required to get
    > non-mainstream [what the herd/kiddies use] packages
    > running.


    Either you don't know what you're talking about, or the idiots who wrote
    those programs don't know what they're doing.

    Care to name some of these "non-mainstream" programs?

    Either way, running as root continuously is wrong.
    Defending running as root continuously is wrong and stupid.

    Learn what a user space is for.
    And USE it.

    >> Note also that a lot of programs either have local configuration
    >> files or allow for them. So except for global configuration, you
    >> can set that application you like just the way you want it from
    >> your user account.

    >
    > If you do the cost benefit analysis, you'll have to consider:


    Cost benefit analysis of what? using linux correctly?

    > * does the package work at all,


    If it doesn't, contact the maintainer with the problem.

    > * does it do what it want,


    If it doesn't do what you want, dump it.

    > * can I amortise the setup/configuration costs


    What setup/configuration costs?
    If you're talking about compiling, you only need to be root for the final
    step and that can be done with sodo.
    So instead of logging in as root to make install, you can sudo make install.
    If you're talking about configuring the PROGRAM...
    What program? IF you want a program to have a specific default configuration
    for all users it's not difficult to setup what files (and config files)
    begin in a user's brand new home directory.

    > We all rationally want to taste-before-comitting ?


    That's what live cd based distros are for... this has nothing to do with
    your root issue.

    >> It's really quite simple. And the thing is, it is safe. If you've
    >> got a Big Mult-user System, you want that ability to control who
    >> has access. You don't want a random person sliding a CDROM into
    >> the machine. But as a desktop user, you can give yourself access
    >> to all the things, yet still keep the security.
    >>

    > I'm asking for a solution for MY circumstances.
    > Not YOUR imagined circumstances.


    Your circumstances are artificial and, to put it bluntly, smack of a windows
    "must login as administrator" mindset which isn't true for linux.

    >> > Now I want to setup some other 'users', mainly to get the
    >> > default file locations spread around different/better
    >> > 'roots'. So eg. If I login as emacs, then I'll get emacs'
    >> > files defaulting to /home/emacs.

    >>
    >> What's the point of this? I think this is a reflection of
    >> the cluelessness of your first point, but I'm not sure. If you
    >> have emacs running as one user, and your browser in another,
    >> then you can edit all you like, but you won't have anything
    >> valuable to edit, because they'll be elsewhere.

    >
    > Are you saying that emacs, app-X, app-Y will NOT have
    > mutual write-permission, so interacting will be
    > problematic ? I'd hope the be able to use root-mode
    > to do any such interaction.


    That's what users are for. To stop user A from reading user B's files.
    Why on earth do you want application based users.

    Create a username based on YOUR name or a nickname and use that for ALL your
    programs, then they'll all share the same home directory and you can use
    them all without stupid and pointless userswitcing.

    > OK, but that would only give me 2: emacs & root.
    > I want more: A,B,C ... & root.
    > And switching should be fast because I may only spend
    > a few seconds in each. Eg. to cut some text out of A's
    > home and paste it in B's home-dir.


    Really don't think you've got the idea of "users".
    Here for example, I am user spike1.
    Everything I need to do short of the odd software update is done AS user
    spike1. I keep a root terminal handy for when I want to fiddle but all
    day-to-day stuff is done as user spike1.

    You're proposing having 4 different users each with access to only one
    program? (that's what it looks like anyway)...

    Why? To what purpose?


    > What is the meaning of this new word "tab" which all the kiddies
    > are using these days ?


    Have you never used firefox?
    Or opera?
    Where each new browser window appears as a tabbed window within the main
    browser? Rather than creating a whole new seperate browser window?

    Terminals can have tabs too, so you can just click to the next tab for
    whatever else you're doing in another shell.

    --
    | |What to do if you find yourself stuck in a crack|
    | spike1@freenet.co.uk |in the ground beneath a giant boulder, which you|
    | |can't move, with no hope of rescue. |
    | Andrew Halliwell BSc |Consider how lucky you are that life has been |
    | in |good to you so far... |
    | Computer Science | -The BOOK, Hitch-hiker's guide to the galaxy.|

  5. Re: login new user ?

    On Thu, 4 Sep 2008, Dan C wrote:

    > On Thu, 04 Sep 2008 03:04:52 -0500, problems wrote:
    >
    >> Statistically a lot of root-permission is required to get non-mainstream
    >> [what the herd/kiddies use] packages running.

    >
    > Bull****, n00b.
    >
    >> I'm asking for a solution for MY circumstances. Not YOUR imagined
    >> circumstances.

    >
    > I bet your shrink can help you with that.
    >
    >>> Lots of ways. You can have different tabs in a XTERM-like window.

    >
    >> What is the meaning of this new word "tab" which all the kiddies are
    >> using these days ?

    >
    > LOL. Are you really "Alan Connor" posting under yet another name?
    >

    Isn't it more likely "Tom Newton"?

    Oddly enough, the followup post hasn't appeared here. I had to look
    it up at google. I think you're headed in the right way, that comment
    about deliberate cross-posting to alt.os.linux.slackware has the mark
    of a troll.

    Either he is a troll, or he's very misguided. He's so certain of
    what he needs, yet at the same time it's clear he doesn't know what
    he's talking about. Our problem understanding him isn't because
    he's working on some greater level, it's because it makes no
    sense.

    Michael

    > Bugger off, you ignorant stooge.
    >
    >
    > --
    > "Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
    > The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
    >
    >


  6. Re: login new user ?

    problems@gmail writes:

    > Maxwell Lol wrote:-
    >> Lots of ways. You can have different tabs in a XTERM-like window.

    >
    > What is the meaning of this new word "tab" which all the kiddies
    > are using these days ?


    Don't you use tabs in firefox?

    In many of the xterm applications, like gnome-terminal, you can do a
    File=>New Tab and create another TTY session inside the same X
    application. You can switch back and forth between these sessions by
    just clicking on a tab.


    Heck, you can do this in a VT100 using screen.

    >
    >> You can have different XTERM windows running as different users.

    >
    > That's what I want. AFAIK, under KDE & gnome when I 'add' an
    > extra xterm/s it's 'under' the same user ?


    This depends on your window manager. but you can create new ways to
    launch an application. (pop-up menu, pull down menu, icon on toolbar,
    icon on desktop, etc.)

    One can do
    gnome-terminal
    and another can do somethink like
    gnome-terminal -e sudo root
    and a third can do
    gnome-terminal -e ssh remotehost

    You can also specify size, location, color, and other properties on a
    termiinal startup.

    When I was a sysadmin, I'd have dozens of windows - each color coded
    for a different server. But that was decades ago, so I am not certain of
    the best way to do this with current software.

    The best way to get help is to describe the OS and window manager you
    use.

  7. Re: login new user ?

    Maxwell Lol writes:

    > gnome-terminal -e sudo root


    Oops. Sorry for the brain fart.
    Instead of sudo root you want something like
    su
    or sudo -i
    or sudo bash
    or ........ whatever


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