On Sun, 25 May 2008, No_One wrote:

>
> http://bentham.k2.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp/media/linux-srom.html

Performs the best on this server poll http://polls.ausics.net/v7.php
(thats been up for over 12 months now I think...) interesting that even
suse is way ahead of RH...

But Slack lacks in desktop poll http://polls.ausics.net/v1.php
Just about every person I've spoken to says they wont use it there because
gnome is not included, and its "too much messing around" to put gnome on
it or use an unknown third party repo and install some customised gnome,
especially when they get it in the install CD/DVD's in fu#kdora and
Ubuntu and so on.

Plenty of people simply hate KDE, and I confess I'm one of em.


--
Cheers
Res

I read usenet and lists in pine. But m$ outlook, thunderbird and gmail
often use html span/whatever for quotes, makes it hard to tell who said
what, so I dont try. If I ignore you, thats why! Use a compliant mailer.

On Mon, 26 May 2008 08:44:52 +1000, Res wrote:

> But Slack lacks in desktop poll http://polls.ausics.net/v1.php
> Just about every person I've spoken to says they wont use it there because
> gnome is not included, and its "too much messing around" to put gnome on
> it or use an unknown third party repo and install some customised gnome,
> especially when they get it in the install CD/DVD's in fu#kdora and
> Ubuntu and so on.
>
> Plenty of people simply hate KDE, and I confess I'm one of em.

Me too. When Slack dropped Gnome, I used the various third party Gnomes
for a while, and then switched to XFCE. Haven't looked back since.


--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
Now filtering out all posts originating from Google Groups.
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org

Dan C wrote:
>
> Me too. When Slack dropped Gnome, I used the various third party Gnomes
> for a while, and then switched to XFCE. Haven't looked back since.

Still using Blackbox after all these years - change is bad....

- Kurt

On 2008-05-25, Dan C wrote:
> On Mon, 26 May 2008 08:44:52 +1000, Res wrote:
>
>> But Slack lacks in desktop poll http://polls.ausics.net/v1.php
>> Just about every person I've spoken to says they wont use it there because
>> gnome is not included, and its "too much messing around" to put gnome on
>> it or use an unknown third party repo and install some customised gnome,
>> especially when they get it in the install CD/DVD's in fu#kdora and
>> Ubuntu and so on.
>>
>> Plenty of people simply hate KDE, and I confess I'm one of em.
>
> Me too. When Slack dropped Gnome, I used the various third party Gnomes
> for a while, and then switched to XFCE. Haven't looked back since.

On the bright side, no one will ever confuse your desktop with a concrete
lawn ornament.

ken

On 2008-05-25, Res wrote:


>
> But Slack lacks in desktop poll http://polls.ausics.net/v1.php
> Just about every person I've spoken to says they wont use it there because
> gnome is not included, and its "too much messing around" to put gnome on
> it or use an unknown third party repo and install some customised gnome,
> especially when they get it in the install CD/DVD's in fu#kdora and
> Ubuntu and so on.

I would have thought SUSE would have a better showing in the desktop field

>
> Plenty of people simply hate KDE, and I confess I'm one of em.
>
>

Never liked it myself, when I have to use a GUI I use fluxbox, simple,
uncomplicated and easy to manage.

ken

On Sun, 25 May 2008 23:33:48 -0500, No_One wrote:

> On the bright side, no one will ever confuse your desktop with a
> concrete lawn ornament.

On Mon, 26 May 2008 08:44:52 +1000, Res wrote:

> But Slack lacks in desktop poll http://polls.ausics.net/v1.php Just
> about every person I've spoken to says they wont use it there because
> gnome is not included, and its "too much messing around" to put gnome on
> it or use an unknown third party repo and install some customised gnome,
> especially when they get it in the install CD/DVD's in fu#kdora and
> Ubuntu and so on.
>
> Plenty of people simply hate KDE, and I confess I'm one of em.

This is like saying that you have to paint your walls salmon pink because
you hate cerise.

There are loads of choices. Loads.

On Mon, 26 May 2008, Mark Madsen wrote:

>
> On Mon, 26 May 2008 08:44:52 +1000, Res wrote:
>
>> But Slack lacks in desktop poll http://polls.ausics.net/v1.php Just
>> about every person I've spoken to says they wont use it there because
>> gnome is not included, and its "too much messing around" to put gnome on
>> it or use an unknown third party repo and install some customised gnome,
>> especially when they get it in the install CD/DVD's in fu#kdora and
>> Ubuntu and so on.
>>
>> Plenty of people simply hate KDE, and I confess I'm one of em.
>
> This is like saying that you have to paint your walls salmon pink because
> you hate cerise.
>
> There are loads of choices. Loads.

That there is, and we stay with what we like, we dont stop liking it
(Gnome) just because Pat doesn't like it and deciodes to not include it
in Slack, for some of us we go to the trouble to install gnome, some dont
want that hassle and go with another distro that has that they want
built in.



--
Cheers
Res

I read usenet and lists in pine. But m$ outlook, thunderbird and gmail
often use html span/whatever for quotes, makes it hard to tell who said
what, so I dont try. If I ignore you, thats why! Use a compliant mailer.

On Sun, 25 May 2008, No_One wrote:

> I would have thought SUSE would have a better showing in the desktop field

*shrug* used SuSE once, a few years ago, its just another rpm based
system, nothing special about it, and RH seem to have that type of market
share in their hands... rpm is ok, but its bloated.


--
Cheers
Res

I read usenet and lists in pine. But m$ outlook, thunderbird and gmail
often use html span/whatever for quotes, makes it hard to tell who said
what, so I dont try. If I ignore you, thats why! Use a compliant mailer.

Res wrote:
>
> *shrug* used SuSE once, a few years ago, its just another rpm based

Hmm, didn't remeber it using rpms - but what I do remember were all the
config files that said "DO NOT EDIT" - you were supposed to use their
little config tool for everything. My SuSE experiment didn't last very
long....

- Kurt

On Mon, 26 May 2008 16:21:25 +1000, Res wrote:

> On Mon, 26 May 2008, Mark Madsen wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 26 May 2008 08:44:52 +1000, Res wrote:
>>
>>> But Slack lacks in desktop poll http://polls.ausics.net/v1.php Just
>>> about every person I've spoken to says they wont use it there because
>>> gnome is not included, and its "too much messing around" to put gnome
>>> on it or use an unknown third party repo and install some customised
>>> gnome, especially when they get it in the install CD/DVD's in fu#kdora
>>> and Ubuntu and so on.
>>>
>>> Plenty of people simply hate KDE, and I confess I'm one of em.
>>
>> This is like saying that you have to paint your walls salmon pink
>> because you hate cerise.
>>
>> There are loads of choices. Loads.
>
> That there is, and we stay with what we like, we dont stop liking it
> (Gnome) just because Pat doesn't like it and deciodes to not include it
> in Slack, for some of us we go to the trouble to install gnome, some
> dont want that hassle and go with another distro that has that they want
> built in.

There is a huge logical gap between "I use Gnome because I like it better
than anything else" and "I use Gnome because I hate KDE" is all.

Personally, I never met a desktop or window manager I couldn't like,
although I've also never met one that didn't annoy me from time to
time....

Res said...

>(Gnome) just because Pat doesn't like it and deciodes to not include it
>in Slack,

He didn't "just decide to not include it" there were sound
reasons to do so

From the Mar 26 2005 Slackware Current ChangeLog:


New Entry: gnome/*: Removed from -current, and turned over to community support and
New Entry: distribution. I'm not going to rehash all the reasons behind this, but it's
New Entry: been under consideration for more than four years. There are already good
New Entry: projects in place to provide Slackware GNOME for those who want it, and
New Entry: these are more complete than what Slackware has shipped in the past. So, if
New Entry: you're looking for GNOME for Slackware -current, I would recommend looking at
New Entry: these two projects for well-built packages that follow a policy of minimal
New Entry: interference with the base Slackware system:
New Entry:
New Entry: http://gsb.sf.net
New Entry: http://gware.sf.net
New Entry:
New Entry: There is also Dropline, of course, which is quite popular. However, due to
New Entry: their policy of adding PAM and replacing large system packages (like the
New Entry: entire X11 system) with their own versions, I can't give quite the same sort
New Entry: of nod to Dropline. Nevertheless, it remains another choice, and it's _your_
New Entry: system, so I will also mention their project:
New Entry:
New Entry: http://www.dropline.net/gnome/
New Entry:
New Entry: Please do not incorrectly interpret any of this as a slight against GNOME
New Entry: itself, which (although it does usually need to be fixed and polished beyond
New Entry: the way it ships from upstream more so than, say, KDE or XFce) is a decent
New Entry: desktop choice. So are a lot of others, but Slackware does not need to ship
New Entry: every choice. GNOME is and always has been a moving target (even the
New Entry: "stable" releases usually aren't quite ready yet) that really does demand a
New Entry: team to keep up on all the changes (many of which are not always well
New Entry: documented). I fully expect that this move will improve the quality of both
New Entry: Slackware itself, and the quality (and quantity) of the GNOME options
New Entry: available for it.
New Entry:
New Entry: Folks, this is how open source is supposed to work. Enjoy. :-)

Slackware may drop GNOME
By Sam Varghese
October 27, 2004

One of the oldest Linux distributions may drop the GNOME desktop and leave it
to users to install this environment if they so wish.

Slackware Linux was started by Patrick Volkerding in early 1993.

In reply to a recent mailing list post, asking why the packages for the latest
GNOME - version 2.8 - was still not available for Slackware, Volkerding wrote
that since GNOME 1.4 he had felt that it (GNOME) was going in a direction that
did not fit well with Slackware's goals.

He said as far back as release 1.4 he had considered removing it completely
"and taking whatever flames I get for that decision."

"Right now, I think removing it would be the best thing for Slackware as it's
become a maintainance (sic) nightmare," Volkerding wrote.

"I do believe it would be best to let Dropline produce Slackware's GNOME and
quit wasting my own time with it. Probably 1/3 of developement time here is
used maintaining GNOME, and *most* of the bug reports I get have something to
do with GNOME (and aren't bugs I caused, or can fix)."

Dropline Systems is now producing a version of GNOME, designed specifically for
Slackware systems.

Volkerding continued: "KDE, on the other hand, tends to build using the
existing build scripts with no changes at all. I can start the build and come
back to finished packages in a few hours. A GNOME update usually takes at least
a week of manual labor, and another week of cleaning up broken things. It's
been a long time (like I said, around GNOME 1.4), since I've felt the effort
was worth the return."

Asked for a reaction, Jeff Waugh, release manager for GNOME, said he could
speak for himself and not the GNOME Project or Foundation.

Waugh said: "Integrating and supporting a complete desktop software stack such
as GNOME is a challenging task, comparable to the maintenance of a simplified
Linux system such as Slackware. It is no surprise to me that Patrick is
thinking about passing the torch to Dropline, who have done a sterling job
providing high-quality, up-to-date releases of GNOME for Slackware.

"That will give Patrick more time to focus on the core system, while leaving
desktop integration to the Dropline folks, who rock so hard."

you are telling me nothing i did not already know.
i disagree with its removal as I dont consider it any more of a nightmare
to maintain then kde, but Pat made his decision, one that I know has cost
him many desktop users, but its his distro and he can do what he wants
with it.


On Mon, 26 May 2008, me@privacy.net wrote:


--
Cheers
Res

I read usenet and lists in pine. But m$ outlook, thunderbird and gmail
often use html span/whatever for quotes, makes it hard to tell who said
what, so I dont try. If I ignore you, thats why! Use a compliant mailer.

On Mon, 26 May 2008, Mark Madsen wrote:

> There is a huge logical gap between "I use Gnome because I like it better
> than anything else" and "I use Gnome because I hate KDE" is all.

I do like it better than kde, hence my reason to sticking with it, but I
also hate kde so that sealed it.


--
Cheers
Res

I read usenet and lists in pine. But m$ outlook, thunderbird and gmail
often use html span/whatever for quotes, makes it hard to tell who said
what, so I dont try. If I ignore you, thats why! Use a compliant mailer.

On Mon, 26 May 2008, ~kurt wrote:

>
> Res wrote:
>>
>> *shrug* used SuSE once, a few years ago, its just another rpm based
>
> Hmm, didn't remeber it using rpms - but what I do remember were all the

yep, you can bascially install any rpm from RH into aSuSE system or at
erlast you could a few years back when I tried it.

> config files that said "DO NOT EDIT" - you were supposed to use their
> little config tool for everything. My SuSE experiment didn't last very
> long....

agreed

--
Cheers
Res

I read usenet and lists in pine. But m$ outlook, thunderbird and gmail
often use html span/whatever for quotes, makes it hard to tell who said
what, so I dont try. If I ignore you, thats why! Use a compliant mailer.

On Mon, 26 May 2008 21:02:19 +1000, Res wrote:

> On Mon, 26 May 2008, Mark Madsen wrote:
>
>> There is a huge logical gap between "I use Gnome because I like it
>> better than anything else" and "I use Gnome because I hate KDE" is all.
>
> I do like it better than kde, hence my reason to sticking with it, but I
> also hate kde so that sealed it.

OK, but that's not a logical flow of argument, it's a confluence of
decision factors.

There is an argument that the default desktop on any distro is the one
best adapted to work with that distro. If one believes this, one should
use Gnome on Debian, KDE or Xfce on Slack, and twm on NetBSD :-)

On May 26, 12:04 am, ~kurt wrote:
> Dan C wrote:
>
> > Me too. When Slack dropped Gnome, I used the various third party Gnomes
> > for a while, and then switched to XFCE. Haven't looked back since.
>
> Still using Blackbox after all these years - change is bad....
>
> - Kurt

Yup blackbox is what I have been using for the past few years.
George

Dan C wrote:


>> Plenty of people simply hate KDE, and I confess I'm one of em.
>
> Me too. When Slack dropped Gnome, I used the various third party Gnomes
> for a while, and then switched to XFCE. Haven't looked back since.

Horses for courses. Installed Ubuntu to have a look and I've decided I'm
happy with KDE.

--
http://www.petezilla.co.uk

On 2008-05-26, Res wrote:
> you are telling me nothing i did not already know.
> i disagree with its removal as I dont consider it any more of a nightmare
> to maintain then kde, but Pat made his decision, one that I know has cost
> him many desktop users, but its his distro and he can do what he wants
> with it.


Ran across this while I was, supposedly, catching up on my paperwork...

http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20060129

ken