Correct sound setup for Skype under KDE in Slackware 12 - Slackware

This is a discussion on Correct sound setup for Skype under KDE in Slackware 12 - Slackware ; Running Slack 12 (close to vanilla install) and using KDE for my desktop**. I installed Skype beta 2.0.0.27 from linuxpackages.net, and when I call the Echo/Sound Test Service I get "Call Failed: Problem with audio playback". Now, here's the thing: ...

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Thread: Correct sound setup for Skype under KDE in Slackware 12

  1. Correct sound setup for Skype under KDE in Slackware 12

    Running Slack 12 (close to vanilla install) and using KDE for my
    desktop**.

    I installed Skype beta 2.0.0.27 from linuxpackages.net, and when I call
    the Echo/Sound Test Service I get "Call Failed: Problem with audio
    playback".

    Now, here's the thing: if I use a different window manager, such as
    Blackbox, it works fine. Obviously it is neither hardware nor ALSA
    libraries causing the problem.

    So, the question is, how should the audio setup in KDE be configured to
    make it work? I seem to have tried everything obvious in the KDE control
    panel for sound system, but I'm hoping someone here will tell me what
    works for them.

    Your responses, abuse, flames, and exhortations to RTFM, STFW, STFU, and
    FOAD are all appreciated. Actual help even more so.

    Mark

    ** Yes, I know that real Slackers run ODE, but I'm a softie who knows
    nothing at all about computing. Please forgive me, even though I am,
    remain, and always will be, unworthy.
    --
    Signature eagerly awaits ode, the reduced fat version of ODE.

  2. Re: Correct sound setup for Skype under KDE in Slackware 12

    On 2008-02-02, Mark South wrote:
    > Running Slack 12 (close to vanilla install) and using KDE for my
    > desktop**.
    >
    > I installed Skype beta 2.0.0.27 from linuxpackages.net, and when I call
    > the Echo/Sound Test Service I get "Call Failed: Problem with audio
    > playback".
    >
    > Now, here's the thing: if I use a different window manager, such as
    > Blackbox, it works fine. Obviously it is neither hardware nor ALSA
    > libraries causing the problem.
    >
    > So, the question is, how should the audio setup in KDE be configured to
    > make it work? I seem to have tried everything obvious in the KDE control
    > panel for sound system, but I'm hoping someone here will tell me what
    > works for them.


    The might KDE, which is supposed to make everything work at the click
    of a mouse (so the couch potatos don't have to put down their beer
    or pizza or dick to run their cumputers) is actually INTERFERING with
    an application that obviously works fine.

    Doesn't surprise me a bit.

    >
    > Your responses, abuse, flames, and exhortations to RTFM, STFW, STFU, and
    > FOAD are all appreciated. Actual help even more so.
    >
    > Mark
    >
    > ** Yes, I know that real Slackers run ODE, but I'm a softie who knows
    > nothing at all about computing. Please forgive me, even though I am,
    > remain, and always will be, unworthy.


    I don't know any more about computing than you do. You've been brainwashed
    by the KDE propagandists.

    For one thing, they have you believing that KDE is a window manager, which
    is simply not accurate. KDE _has_ a window manager, called "Kwin".

    I use a window manager and X. I don't use KDE.

    So tell us this: If skype works fine with blackbox, then what the hell
    are you complaining about? Why are you knocking yourself out to make
    it work with KDE? Afraid they'll take your computer away for failing
    to use the Korporate Desktop Environment?

    Will men in black come knocking on your door in the middle of the
    night and haul you off to some secret labor camp where enemies
    of the state toil their lives away?

    Tom





  3. Re: Correct sound setup for Skype under KDE in Slackware 12

    On 2008-02-02, Mark South wrote:
    > Running Slack 12 (close to vanilla install) and using KDE for my
    > desktop**.
    >
    > I installed Skype beta 2.0.0.27 from linuxpackages.net, and when I call
    > the Echo/Sound Test Service I get "Call Failed: Problem with audio
    > playback".
    >
    > Now, here's the thing: if I use a different window manager, such as
    > Blackbox, it works fine. Obviously it is neither hardware nor ALSA
    > libraries causing the problem.
    >
    > So, the question is, how should the audio setup in KDE be configured to
    > make it work? I seem to have tried everything obvious in the KDE control
    > panel for sound system, but I'm hoping someone here will tell me what
    > works for them.



    Here's a hint: arts is no longer part of KDE (as of 4.x).

    Here's a stronger hint: disable it completely and let alsa handle mixing.

    -RW

  4. Re: Correct sound setup for Skype under KDE in Slackware 12

    On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 21:47:56 +0100, Mark South wrote:

    > Running Slack 12 (close to vanilla install) and using KDE for my
    > desktop**.
    >
    > I installed Skype beta 2.0.0.27 from linuxpackages.net, and when I call
    > the Echo/Sound Test Service I get "Call Failed: Problem with audio
    > playback".
    >
    > Now, here's the thing: if I use a different window manager, such as
    > Blackbox, it works fine. Obviously it is neither hardware nor ALSA
    > libraries causing the problem.
    >
    > So, the question is, how should the audio setup in KDE be configured to
    > make it work? I seem to have tried everything obvious in the KDE
    > control panel for sound system, but I'm hoping someone here will tell me
    > what works for them.


    For what it's worth: I have tried to run Skype under Slackware/
    KDE ever since Skype came out for Linux. I have never, ever, for any
    Slackware/KDE/Skype combination managed to get it to run properly. Ever.
    At best, it sort of worked, but I always had issues with choppy sound,
    high latency or sound device problems.

    On the other hand, I have set it up under Slackware/Gnome
    (Dropline, Freerock, Gware and, most recently, Slacky Gnome) and it has
    always worked flawlessly. Indeed, my wife, who prefers KDE over Gnome big
    time, always uses a Gnome session for her Skype conversations - and for
    nothing else.

    I don't want to start a flame war here. This is just my
    experience.



  5. Re: Correct sound setup for Skype under KDE in Slackware 12

    On 2008-02-03, Robby Workman wrote:
    >
    > Here's a hint: arts is no longer part of KDE (as of 4.x).
    >


    Oh well. That's it. KDE doesn't support arts anymore, so you
    can't use it.

    Even though it works fine from the ODE, using blackbox for your
    window manager. And with any other independent window manager,
    I'm sure.

    And it's a great application.

    If the Korporate-Kontrolled geeks at KDE don't approve, then you
    better just toe the line and use whatever applications they want
    you to use or they'll take your computer away from you.


    Tom





  6. Re: Correct sound setup for Skype under KDE in Slackware 12

    Robby Workman wrote:

    >
    > Here's a hint: arts is no longer part of KDE (as of 4.x).
    >


    I'm glad to hear that.
    Never liked arts.

  7. Re: Correct sound setup for Skype under KDE in Slackware 12

    yawwnnnn is this ****head stil here ?


    On Sun, 3 Feb 2008, Tom Newton wrote:

    >
    > On 2008-02-03, Robby Workman wrote:
    >>
    >> Here's a hint: arts is no longer part of KDE (as of 4.x).
    >>

    >
    > Oh well. That's it. KDE doesn't support arts anymore, so you
    > can't use it.
    >
    > Even though it works fine from the ODE, using blackbox for your
    > window manager. And with any other independent window manager,
    > I'm sure.
    >
    > And it's a great application.
    >
    > If the Korporate-Kontrolled geeks at KDE don't approve, then you
    > better just toe the line and use whatever applications they want
    > you to use or they'll take your computer away from you.
    >
    >
    > Tom
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >


    --
    Cheers
    Res

    mysql> update auth set Framed-IP-Address='127.0.0.127' where user= 'troll';

  8. Re: Correct sound setup for Skype under KDE in Slackware 12

    On Sun, 3 Feb 2008, Franklin wrote:

    >
    > Robby Workman wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> Here's a hint: arts is no longer part of KDE (as of 4.x).
    >>

    >
    > I'm glad to hear that.
    > Never liked arts.


    nor I

    didn't Alan Cox swear a lot about it


    --
    Cheers
    Res

    mysql> update auth set Framed-IP-Address='127.0.0.127' where user= 'troll';

  9. Re: Correct sound setup for Skype under KDE in Slackware 12

    On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 01:07:57 +0000, Robby Workman wrote:

    Thanks for your reply, Robby.

    >> So, the question is, how should the audio setup in KDE be configured to
    >> make it work? I seem to have tried everything obvious in the KDE
    >> control panel for sound system, but I'm hoping someone here will tell
    >> me what works for them.

    >
    > Here's a hint: arts is no longer part of KDE (as of 4.x).


    I hear OSS is set to make a comeback too, in its new, rebuilt version.

    > Here's a stronger hint: disable it completely and let alsa handle
    > mixing.


    I tried that one ("everything obvious") but I have since refined the
    observation. If I start KDE with no apps running in the system tray from
    the previous session, Skype works OK. Once I play some music with
    noatun, it fails. This is true even with ALSA set to handle mixing.

    I guess noatun is activating arts and locking ALSA. It feels like the
    old days of dealing with OSS, except without the "another application has
    the soundcard locked" message.

  10. Re: Correct sound setup for Skype under KDE in Slackware 12

    On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 00:58:55 +0000, Tom Newton wrote:

    > So tell us this: If skype works fine with blackbox, then what the hell
    > are you complaining about?


    No complaints here. I was asking a question. I'd like to understand in
    slightly better detail what the difference between the two setups is.

    > Why are you knocking yourself out to make it
    > work with KDE?


    I actually like KDE. I like Gnome too. I like Xfce, Enlightenment,
    WindowMaker, Fluxbox, Blackbox, Openbox, fvwm, and twm. I even quite
    like jwm, god help me.

    But any of them should be capable of working correctly, and so I asked
    because I am obviously missing exactly how to ensure that KDE works with
    Skype. I'm sure that, reading this group, there are many who have this
    setup working.

    > Afraid they'll take your computer away for failing to use
    > the Korporate Desktop Environment?


    They're more likely to take it away for not using that OS from the top
    left corner of the US called (*expletive deleted*).

  11. Re: Correct sound setup for Skype under KDE in Slackware 12

    On 2008-02-03, Mark South wrote:
    > On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 00:58:55 +0000, Tom Newton wrote:
    >
    >> So tell us this: If skype works fine with blackbox, then what the hell
    >> are you complaining about?

    >
    > No complaints here. I was asking a question. I'd like to understand in
    > slightly better detail what the difference between the two setups is.


    I know. I was just using your post as an excuse to rant.

    I think you know that too.

    >> Why are you knocking yourself out to make it
    >> work with KDE?

    >
    > I actually like KDE. I like Gnome too. I like Xfce, Enlightenment,
    > WindowMaker, Fluxbox, Blackbox, Openbox, fvwm, and twm. I even quite
    > like jwm, god help me.
    >


    Once again, you are talking apples and oranges above. A window
    manager and an integrated desktop environment like KDE or Gnome,
    are very different beasts.

    KDE/Gnome _have_ window managers. They are not window managers.

    I am using a great window manager right now, called ratpoison. It's just
    about infinitely configurable.

    It's 112K with no special libs. Compare that to the size of KDE
    or Gnome and all the special libs they need...

    We are talking orders of magnitude of size difference and
    functional difference.

    > But any of them should be capable of working correctly, and so I asked
    > because I am obviously missing exactly how to ensure that KDE works with
    > Skype. I'm sure that, reading this group, there are many who have this
    > setup working.
    >
    >> Afraid they'll take your computer away for failing to use
    >> the Korporate Desktop Environment?

    >
    > They're more likely to take it away for not using that OS from the top
    > left corner of the US called (*expletive deleted*).


    :-)

    But KDE/Gnome are clones of the Windows user-interface. By going down
    that path you are protecting yourself from them by doing what they
    want: Becoming more like them.

    That makes no sense.

    KDE/Gnome are all free and open source now, but they won't be
    for long. And once the patents are all secured in the corrupt,
    corporate-controlled courts, Linux is a thing of the past.

    We shouldn't be helping these greedhead traitors ruin Linux.

    Tom


  12. Re: Correct sound setup for Skype under KDE in Slackware 12

    On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 15:08:14 +0000, Tom Newton wrote:

    > On 2008-02-03, Mark South wrote:
    >> On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 00:58:55 +0000, Tom Newton wrote:
    >>
    >>> So tell us this: If skype works fine with blackbox, then what the hell
    >>> are you complaining about?

    >>
    >> No complaints here. I was asking a question. I'd like to understand
    >> in slightly better detail what the difference between the two setups
    >> is.

    >
    > I know. I was just using your post as an excuse to rant.


    You are developing a reputation in that direction.

    > I think you know that too.


    :-)

    >>> Why are you knocking yourself out to make it work with KDE?

    >>
    >> I actually like KDE. I like Gnome too. I like Xfce, Enlightenment,
    >> WindowMaker, Fluxbox, Blackbox, Openbox, fvwm, and twm. I even quite
    >> like jwm, god help me.
    >>

    > Once again, you are talking apples and oranges above. A window manager
    > and an integrated desktop environment like KDE or Gnome, are very
    > different beasts.


    Some say so. I believe it to be a matter of degree. There is a
    spectrum, and some window managers come close to providing desktop
    environments (Enlightenment, Windowmaker) and some have configuration to
    make it possible, like fvwm-crystal.

    > KDE/Gnome _have_ window managers. They are not window managers.


    Yup. It's a layered stack.

    > I am using a great window manager right now, called ratpoison. It's just
    > about infinitely configurable.
    >
    > It's 112K with no special libs. Compare that to the size of KDE or Gnome
    > and all the special libs they need...
    >
    > We are talking orders of magnitude of size difference and functional
    > difference.


    Indeed. And I prefer a bicycle as a means of getting about, but
    sometimes a train is more practical.

    >> But any of them should be capable of working correctly, and so I asked
    >> because I am obviously missing exactly how to ensure that KDE works
    >> with Skype. I'm sure that, reading this group, there are many who have
    >> this setup working.
    >>
    >>> Afraid they'll take your computer away for failing to use the
    >>> Korporate Desktop Environment?

    >>
    >> They're more likely to take it away for not using that OS from the top
    >> left corner of the US called (*expletive deleted*).

    >
    > :-)
    >
    > But KDE/Gnome are clones of the Windows user-interface. By going down
    > that path you are protecting yourself from them by doing what they want:
    > Becoming more like them.


    It's like alcohol. I can take it or let it alone.

    > That makes no sense.
    >
    > KDE/Gnome are all free and open source now, but they won't be for long.
    > And once the patents are all secured in the corrupt,
    > corporate-controlled courts, Linux is a thing of the past.


    Not over this side of the water, here it's going the other direction.

  13. Re: Correct sound setup for Skype under KDE in Slackware 12

    On 2008-02-03, Mark South wrote:
    >>>


    ....

    >> Once again, you are talking apples and oranges above. A window manager
    >> and an integrated desktop environment like KDE or Gnome, are very
    >> different beasts.

    >
    > Some say so. I believe it to be a matter of degree. There is a
    > spectrum, and some window managers come close to providing desktop
    > environments (Enlightenment, Windowmaker) and some have configuration to
    > make it possible, like fvwm-crystal.


    It's not as simple as 'degree'. A window manager is a utility.

    An integrated desktop environment is a user-interface that conceals
    the way you OS really works.

    >> KDE/Gnome _have_ window managers. They are not window managers.

    >
    > Yup. It's a layered stack.
    >
    >> I am using a great window manager right now, called ratpoison. It's just
    >> about infinitely configurable.
    >>
    >> It's 112K with no special libs. Compare that to the size of KDE or Gnome
    >> and all the special libs they need...
    >>
    >> We are talking orders of magnitude of size difference and functional
    >> difference.

    >
    > Indeed. And I prefer a bicycle as a means of getting about, but
    > sometimes a train is more practical.


    That's not an accurate analogy. You can't do anything with KDE that
    others can't do with ODE.

    >>> But any of them should be capable of working correctly, and so I asked
    >>> because I am obviously missing exactly how to ensure that KDE works
    >>> with Skype. I'm sure that, reading this group, there are many who have
    >>> this setup working.
    >>>
    >>>> Afraid they'll take your computer away for failing to use the
    >>>> Korporate Desktop Environment?
    >>>
    >>> They're more likely to take it away for not using that OS from the top
    >>> left corner of the US called (*expletive deleted*).

    >>
    >> :-)
    >>
    >> But KDE/Gnome are clones of the Windows user-interface. By going down
    >> that path you are protecting yourself from them by doing what they want:
    >> Becoming more like them.

    >
    > It's like alcohol. I can take it or let it alone.
    >
    >> That makes no sense.
    >>
    >> KDE/Gnome are all free and open source now, but they won't be for long.
    >> And once the patents are all secured in the corrupt,
    >> corporate-controlled courts, Linux is a thing of the past.

    >
    > Not over this side of the water, here it's going the other direction.


    If they are using KDE/Gnome, then that's an illusion.

    Here's how it works: The people behind KDE, the one's that
    are financing all that development (hundreds of thousands of
    person-hours by very skilled workers*), want people to become
    dependent on KDE. They want them to forget about the shell.
    To be afraid of it.

    (* Do you think the corporations make that kind of investment
    without expecting a huge payoff?)

    Pretty soon there won't BE any shell or 'xterms' on the KDE OSes.
    It doesn't need the shell. They have developed their own way of
    making system calls. A different protocol.

    That's exactly what happenned with Windows: When it first began
    it kept the DOS shell user-interface, then it phased it out.

    So now there isn't any way to run Windows except with their
    integrated desktop environment, and no one can tell what's
    really going on under the hood. And the user certainly can't
    control it, either.

    Because it's not open source software. They are just coming
    at it from another direction with Linux.

    In the case of Linux, making it closed-source and non-free
    software will be the last step, rather than the first.

    But the end result will be the same.

    Getting rid of the shell and all those wonderful utilities
    will be the next step after everyone is hooked on KDE.
    And integrating the whole system like Windows is: KDE
    won't be an option, it will BE Linux, as far as the user
    is concerned.

    See? Whenever you are dealing with a group that wants to
    make it easy: "user-friendly", you are dealing with someone
    who wants you to be an ignorant and dependent appliance
    operator.

    Computers just aren't simple and they never will be.

    But running Linux from the shell is a lot easier than
    running it from KDE. It only seems to be the other way
    around to most people because they already know how to
    use Windows and KDE is a Windows-interface clone.

    Tom



  14. Re: Correct sound setup for Skype under KDE in Slackware 12

    Mark South wrote:

    > But any of them should be capable of working correctly, and so I asked
    > because I am obviously missing exactly how to ensure that KDE works
    > with Skype...


    Perhaps an enquiry on comp.windows.x.kde might elicit an answer, I have
    found that someone there usually has an answer to most 'hitches' quite
    quickly.
    --
    Two Ravens
    "...hit the squirrel..."


  15. Re: Correct sound setup for Skype under KDE in Slackware 12


    Mark South wrote :

    > If I start KDE with no apps running in the system tray from the
    > previous session, Skype works OK. Once I play some music with
    > noatun, it fails.


    Then try start skype with 'artsdsp' like this:
    artsdsp -m /foo/bar/skype
    --
    Thomas O.

    This area is designed to become quite warm during normal operation.

  16. Re: Correct sound setup for Skype under KDE in Slackware 12

    On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 17:48:56 +0000, Two Ravens wrote:

    > Mark South wrote:
    >
    >> But any of them should be capable of working correctly, and so I asked
    >> because I am obviously missing exactly how to ensure that KDE works
    >> with Skype...

    >
    > Perhaps an enquiry on comp.windows.x.kde might elicit an answer, I have
    > found that someone there usually has an answer to most 'hitches' quite
    > quickly.


    Thanks for the advice - it's noted. As is usual, I asked first in the
    group I know before entering a strange group and asking a question that
    everyone there already knows the answer to. There's also the danger that
    the response will be "No-one here uses Slack, so that must be the
    problem."

    Further experimentation leads me to suspect that noatun is badly
    behaved. Why do I say that? Because when I close noatun and run Amarok
    (configured to use ALSA) instead, Skype can't connect when Amarok is
    playing, but the moment Amarok is paused, the Skype test call works.

    Damn. Now I have to work out how to configure all those options in
    Amarok, it's almost as complex as gxine....

  17. Re: Correct sound setup for Skype under KDE in Slackware 12

    On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 16:25:38 +0000, Tom Newton wrote:

    > On 2008-02-03, Mark South wrote:
    >>>>
    >>> Once again, you are talking apples and oranges above. A window manager
    >>> and an integrated desktop environment like KDE or Gnome, are very
    >>> different beasts.

    >>
    >> Some say so. I believe it to be a matter of degree. There is a
    >> spectrum, and some window managers come close to providing desktop
    >> environments (Enlightenment, Windowmaker) and some have configuration
    >> to make it possible, like fvwm-crystal.

    >
    > It's not as simple as 'degree'. A window manager is a utility.
    >
    > An integrated desktop environment is a user-interface that conceals the
    > way you OS really works.


    The degree is in how much the wm does for you, and how much the
    underlying system is concealed. Fvwm is a very plain, no-frills, wm.
    When one uses the fvwm-crystal setup, it's basically like interacting
    with a desktop environment.

    >>> KDE/Gnome _have_ window managers. They are not window managers.

    >>
    >> Yup. It's a layered stack.
    >>
    >>> I am using a great window manager right now, called ratpoison. It's
    >>> just about infinitely configurable.
    >>>
    >>> It's 112K with no special libs. Compare that to the size of KDE or
    >>> Gnome and all the special libs they need...
    >>>
    >>> We are talking orders of magnitude of size difference and functional
    >>> difference.

    >>
    >> Indeed. And I prefer a bicycle as a means of getting about, but
    >> sometimes a train is more practical.

    >
    > That's not an accurate analogy. You can't do anything with KDE that
    > others can't do with ODE.


    Well, no analogy is accurate, but the train and the bicycle have
    different advantages. No one has ever taken a train to the top of
    Kilimanjaro, and no bicycle has ever gone over 400 km/h (well, OK, inside
    a train or plane it has :-).

    > Getting rid of the shell and all those wonderful utilities will be the
    > next step after everyone is hooked on KDE. And integrating the whole
    > system like Windows is: KDE won't be an option, it will BE Linux, as far
    > as the user is concerned.
    >
    > See? Whenever you are dealing with a group that wants to make it easy:
    > "user-friendly", you are dealing with someone who wants you to be an
    > ignorant and dependent appliance operator.


    When we first interacted in this group, you said you were going to ignore
    me because I was trying to make you paranoid....

  18. Re: Correct sound setup for Skype under KDE in Slackware 12

    On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 19:18:00 +0100, Thomas Overgaard wrote:

    > Mark South wrote :
    >
    >> If I start KDE with no apps running in the system tray from the
    >> previous session, Skype works OK. Once I play some music with noatun,
    >> it fails.

    >
    > Then try start skype with 'artsdsp' like this: artsdsp -m /foo/bar/skype


    Will experiment, thanks for the tip.

  19. Re: Correct sound setup for Skype under KDE in Slackware 12

    On 2008-02-03, Mark South wrote:
    > On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 16:25:38 +0000, Tom Newton wrote:
    >
    >> On 2008-02-03, Mark South wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>> Once again, you are talking apples and oranges above. A window manager
    >>>> and an integrated desktop environment like KDE or Gnome, are very
    >>>> different beasts.
    >>>
    >>> Some say so. I believe it to be a matter of degree. There is a
    >>> spectrum, and some window managers come close to providing desktop
    >>> environments (Enlightenment, Windowmaker) and some have configuration
    >>> to make it possible, like fvwm-crystal.

    >>
    >> It's not as simple as 'degree'. A window manager is a utility.
    >>
    >> An integrated desktop environment is a user-interface that conceals the
    >> way you OS really works.

    >
    > The degree is in how much the wm does for you, and how much the
    > underlying system is concealed. Fvwm is a very plain, no-frills, wm.
    > When one uses the fvwm-crystal setup, it's basically like interacting
    > with a desktop environment.


    If so, then fvwm-crystal is not a window-manager, a utility, it is a
    large collection of applications and utilities.

    The fvwm package for 12.0 is only 1.4M, so it obviously is not in the
    same league as KDE/Gnome.

    Just the base install of KDE (total of packages) is almost 300MB.

    In both cases, of course, that's their compressed (gzipped) sizes.

    So using fvwm-crystal is not anything like running KDE/Gnome.

    >>>> KDE/Gnome _have_ window managers. They are not window managers.
    >>>
    >>> Yup. It's a layered stack.
    >>>
    >>>> I am using a great window manager right now, called ratpoison. It's
    >>>> just about infinitely configurable.
    >>>>
    >>>> It's 112K with no special libs. Compare that to the size of KDE or
    >>>> Gnome and all the special libs they need...
    >>>>
    >>>> We are talking orders of magnitude of size difference and functional
    >>>> difference.
    >>>
    >>> Indeed. And I prefer a bicycle as a means of getting about, but
    >>> sometimes a train is more practical.

    >>
    >> That's not an accurate analogy. You can't do anything with KDE that
    >> others can't do with ODE.

    >
    > Well, no analogy is accurate, but the train and the bicycle have
    > different advantages. No one has ever taken a train to the top of
    > Kilimanjaro, and no bicycle has ever gone over 400 km/h (well, OK, inside
    > a train or plane it has :-).


    I don't get that. But the fact is that an ODE user (running from the shell
    in the X environment) can do _more_ than the KDE user can.

    Yes, I know there's an 'xterm' available within KDE. But if you don't
    understand the shell it isn't of much use. It's just window-dressing.
    You are limited to what KDE can do.

    You are the one riding the bicycle, and the propagandists at KDE
    have convinced you that you are riding the train.

    "Things Go Better With KDE"

    >
    >> Getting rid of the shell and all those wonderful utilities will be the
    >> next step after everyone is hooked on KDE. And integrating the whole
    >> system like Windows is: KDE won't be an option, it will BE Linux, as far
    >> as the user is concerned.
    >>
    >> See? Whenever you are dealing with a group that wants to make it easy:
    >> "user-friendly", you are dealing with someone who wants you to be an
    >> ignorant and dependent appliance operator.

    >
    > When we first interacted in this group, you said you were going to ignore
    > me because I was trying to make you paranoid...


    (I'll have to see that quote, and I don't think you can come up with it. If
    you do, be sure to post the message id and such, so that it can be seen in
    context.)

    Paranoia is an irrational fear. There's nothing irrational about
    expecting corporations to do what corporations _always_ do. They
    claim to be in favor of competition and free markets, but every
    single action they take is in the opposite direction: Towards the
    creation of captive markets and monoply and the elimination of
    the competition.

    But that's all beside the point. Like the rest of the KDE addicts,
    you are clearly unwilling to face the important issues involved here.

    You refuse to even face basic facts like the enormous differences
    between a window manager and an integrated desktop environment.

    I sure hope that you don't think you are fooling me, or anyone
    else who has a functioning mind, with your evasive responses.

    If you want to use KDE, then do so. And those who want to use ODE
    will do so.

    Note: For anyone just tuning in, ODE, the Other Desktop
    Environment, is simply running Linux from the command prompt
    within the X environment. It is not, as the folks in the
    Korporate Desktop Environment boardroom (and their technocratic
    minions and couch potato parishioners) want you to believe, very
    difficult.

    Many, many Linux runners use the ODE.

    Tom



  20. Re: Correct sound setup for Skype under KDE in Slackware 12

    On Mon, 04 Feb 2008 00:48:52 +0000, Tom Newton wrote:

    >>> See? Whenever you are dealing with a group that wants to make it easy:
    >>> "user-friendly", you are dealing with someone who wants you to be an
    >>> ignorant and dependent appliance operator.

    >>
    >> When we first interacted in this group, you said you were going to
    >> ignore me because I was trying to make you paranoid...

    >
    > (I'll have to see that quote, and I don't think you can come up with it.
    > If you do, be sure to post the message id and such, so that it can be
    > seen in context.)


    http://www.linuxpackages.net/forum/v...=101842#101842

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