Shutdown permissions - Slackware

This is a discussion on Shutdown permissions - Slackware ; On 2007-12-22, ~kurt wrote: > Tom N wrote: >>> the system down. >> >> I just discovered that I don't use that app (acpi). Got the modules, but they aren't >> loaded. Nothing in PATH. Nothing from apropos. >> > ...

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Thread: Shutdown permissions

  1. Re: Shutdown permissions

    On 2007-12-22, ~kurt wrote:
    > Tom N wrote:
    >>> the system down.

    >>
    >> I just discovered that I don't use that app (acpi). Got the modules, but they aren't
    >> loaded. Nothing in PATH. Nothing from apropos.
    >>

    >
    > I manually loaded the button module in rc.modules - but I believe that was
    > unnecessary. It might automatically get loaded when needed.


    Must be that udev program again. That could get confusing. How do you know what
    modules are being loaded if they aren't there the next time you do lsmod?

    > I haven't tested
    > that yet. I found it doesn't help out if I lock the system up (I was having
    > some issues with DOOM III). I had to resort to using the the "Linux Magic
    > System Request" key to nicely shut the system down (kinda like Stop A on
    > a Sun system).


    What the hell is a "Linux Magic System Request"?

    Do you have to draw a pentagram on the floor and light black candles to use it?

    >> I think you could make a popup xterm that displayed the output. Wouldn't that be
    >> seen by everyone as long as it went to ttys as text, too?

    >
    > Not sure. I don't know if root will aways be able to show a X window on a
    > remote system if the local computer hasn't been xhost +'ed on the remote one.
    > I'm sure a network could be configured for this behaviour though.


    I thought that might get kind of tricky.

    Tom

    --
    simpleman.s43
    That would be at gee male


  2. [OT] Note for Dan C (was:o Re: Shutdown permissions)

    On 2007-12-22, Tom N wrote:

    Hi Dan C. I'm sorry your boyfriend Allen Connor ditched you for
    someone with a bigger hard drive, but it really isn't my fault
    and I'm not reading any more of your bitchy posts.

    That's the way it is. Nothing you can do about it.

    Tom



  3. Re: [OT] Note for Dan C (was:o Re: Shutdown permissions)

    Tom N wrote:

    > Hi Dan C. I'm sorry your boyfriend Allen Connor ditched you for someone
    > with a bigger hard drive, but it really isn't my fault and I'm not
    > reading any more of your bitchy posts.


    ....making you the last person on the internet to put Dan C in your
    killfile?

  4. Re: [OT] Note for Dan C (was:o Re: Shutdown permissions)

    On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 01:28:14 +0100, Tom N wrote:

    > That's the way it is. Nothing you can do about it.


    OK, Alan. You'll read all my posts because you can't resist.

    > Tom


    It's "Alan", Tom.

    --
    "Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".


  5. [OT] Note for Swede (AKA Dan C) (was: Shutdown permissions)

    On 2007-12-23, Tom N wrote:

    Hi again, Dan C, AKA "Swede" and a hundred other names.

    Damn, you are so incredibly CLEVER! You can actually type a different
    name on the From line.

    I wish I was a criminal genius like you.

    Just hang in there. The nice young man in the white coat will be there
    soon with your shot, then everything will be all better.

    Tom




  6. Re: Shutdown permissions

    Tom N wrote:
    >
    > Must be that udev program again. That could get confusing. How do you know what
    > modules are being loaded if they aren't there the next time you do lsmod?


    I haven't bothered to look up what automagically loads kernel modules on
    demand now days. Before the 2.6 kernel, kerneld used to take care of it - I
    think there is something else now that run entirely in kernel space.

    Lets say the FAT file system is needed. You try and mount a fat system, the
    module isn't loaded, but gets loaded magically if it exists. I believe the
    same should happen with the button module. I just need to unload it, and
    then push the power button. It will either work, loading the module, or
    I think it will kill the power to my computer (not good...). I usually
    don't start experimenting with the computer too much until I'm close to
    upgrading the OS....

    > What the hell is a "Linux Magic System Request"?
    >


    This is a very helpful key combination. It is turned on by default in
    Slackware now days. This link explains it more:



    Basically, if your system locks up (as it might under X when using an OpenGL
    program with some issues), you can press "Alt-SysRq-key" where "key" could
    be a 's' to sync the hard drives, 'u' mounts them read only, and 'b' reboots
    the computer, cleanly. It is especially helpful on a non-networked computer
    since you can't just telnet in and kill off the offending process. I think
    there was only one time I locked up a Unix/Linux box so bad I couldn't even
    telnet in to save it. I had not locked up my home computer in years until
    I got this damn game. But, I was still able to shut it down nicely thanks
    to the magic key.

    The magic keys were also supposed to answer a criticism the Windoz guys
    had of Linux saying there was no trusted key combo on a Linux box. Ever
    since Windoz NT, the Ctrl-Alt-Del combo talks directly to the Windoz "kernel",
    and results in what is considered a completely trusted, non-trojan window
    that the user can either log in from, unlock the screen, or change the
    password. Such an interface is necessary to meet some minimum government
    security level and this is one of the few things Windoz was able to meet
    (forgot the name of the standard - I think it comes from the Orange Book,
    Trusted Computer System Evaluation Criteria). It never worked well for
    Linux in that sense, and because the demand was never really there, I don't
    believe it was ever refined to work in that way. But, the magic keys still
    work damn well for a few other things.

    The other option I have taken to shut down the computer cleanly when
    it locked up was to pull the plug on my UPS. That made the computer
    shut itself down. It isn't a good idea to run the computer off an
    ungrounded UPS - but oh well....

    - Kurt

  7. Re: [OT] Note for Swede (AKA Dan C) (was: Shutdown permissions)

    On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 02:21:07 +0100, Tom N wrote:

    > Hi again, Dan C, AKA "Swede" and a hundred other names.


    > Damn, you are so incredibly CLEVER! You can actually type a different
    > name on the From line.


    Jesus, you're truly a dumb ****.

    Free clue, dimwit: I didn't write anything under any different name.

    Wait a minute. You said you had plonked me. LOL!


    --
    "Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".


  8. Re: Shutdown permissions

    On 2007-12-23, ~kurt wrote:
    > Tom N wrote:
    >>
    >> Must be that udev program again. That could get confusing. How do you know what
    >> modules are being loaded if they aren't there the next time you do lsmod?

    >
    > I haven't bothered to look up what automagically loads kernel modules on
    > demand now days. Before the 2.6 kernel, kerneld used to take care of it - I
    > think there is something else now that run entirely in kernel space.
    >


    Someone said it was udev on another thread.

    In the kernel sources documentation in the Changes file (Slack 12/2.6.21.5)
    it says:

    DevFS has been obsoleted in favour of udev
    (http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/kernel/hotplug/)

    > Lets say the FAT file system is needed. You try and mount a fat system, the
    > module isn't loaded, but gets loaded magically if it exists. I believe the
    > same should happen with the button module. I just need to unload it, and
    > then push the power button. It will either work, loading the module, or
    > I think it will kill the power to my computer (not good...). I usually
    > don't start experimenting with the computer too much until I'm close to
    > upgrading the OS....


    :-)

    >
    >> What the hell is a "Linux Magic System Request"?
    >>

    >
    > This is a very helpful key combination. It is turned on by default in
    > Slackware now days. This link explains it more:
    >
    >
    >
    > Basically, if your system locks up (as it might under X when using an OpenGL
    > program with some issues), you can press "Alt-SysRq-key" where "key" could
    > be a 's' to sync the hard drives, 'u' mounts them read only, and 'b' reboots
    > the computer, cleanly. It is especially helpful on a non-networked computer
    > since you can't just telnet in and kill off the offending process. I think
    > there was only one time I locked up a Unix/Linux box so bad I couldn't even
    > telnet in to save it. I had not locked up my home computer in years until
    > I got this damn game. But, I was still able to shut it down nicely thanks
    > to the magic key.
    >
    > The magic keys were also supposed to answer a criticism the Windoz guys
    > had of Linux saying there was no trusted key combo on a Linux box. Ever
    > since Windoz NT, the Ctrl-Alt-Del combo talks directly to the Windoz "kernel",
    > and results in what is considered a completely trusted, non-trojan window
    > that the user can either log in from, unlock the screen, or change the
    > password. Such an interface is necessary to meet some minimum government
    > security level and this is one of the few things Windoz was able to meet
    > (forgot the name of the standard - I think it comes from the Orange Book,
    > Trusted Computer System Evaluation Criteria). It never worked well for
    > Linux in that sense, and because the demand was never really there, I don't
    > believe it was ever refined to work in that way. But, the magic keys still
    > work damn well for a few other things.


    Are you saying that these can be used by an ordinary user? If so, please
    tell me how to disable them.

    > The other option I have taken to shut down the computer cleanly when
    > it locked up was to pull the plug on my UPS. That made the computer
    > shut itself down. It isn't a good idea to run the computer off an
    > ungrounded UPS - but oh well....


    I don't have an UPS. During a lightning storm a while back the power
    went off. No problem. I just booted up later and the boot took longer than
    usual but everything was just fine.

    I hear about Windows users having the problems you are talking about, but
    this is the first I've heard of a Linux machine having them. Doesn't seem
    like it happens often enough to justify the kind of security hole you
    are talking about (assuming a normal user can use these magic keys).

    Tom

    --
    simpleman.s43
    That would be at gee male


  9. Re: Shutdown permissions

    Tom N wrote:
    >
    > Are you saying that these can be used by an ordinary user? If so, please
    > tell me how to disable them.


    Yes, a normal user with physical access to the machine can use any of the
    magic key options with the default setup (in the same way that Stop A is
    available to users by default on Sun machines).

    Since /proc/sysrq-trigger is writable only by root, you don't have to
    worry about a remote user accessing this functionality (unless they have
    root access on that machine).

    I believe:

    echo 0 > /proc/sys/kernel/sysrq

    turns it off completely (a value of 1 for sysrq means it is enabled).

    > I hear about Windows users having the problems you are talking about, but
    > this is the first I've heard of a Linux machine having them. Doesn't seem
    > like it happens often enough to justify the kind of security hole you
    > are talking about (assuming a normal user can use these magic keys).


    Until I installed DoomIII just a few months ago, I hadn't had the home machine
    lock up since 2001. I think Netscape had caused it to lock up a couple times
    back then, and I was having some issues with the nVidia graphics module. Wait,
    no, a few months before the DOOM III thing I was experimenting with Java3D.
    I was using an unsupported version of GLX, and it warned me that something
    bad could occasionally happen.... But before that - nothing that I can
    remember since 2001. Some programs can lock up the keyboard (especially
    graphics ones using OpenGL). It usually seems to be a graphics related
    issue that causes problems. At work, any time I have an issue (usually
    caused by bad software I have written), I can just telnet into the computer
    and kill the bad guy off and the system is happy after that.

    - Kurt

  10. Re: [OT] Note for Swede (AKA Dan C) (was: Shutdown permissions)

    Tom N wrote:

    > On 2007-12-23, Tom N wrote:
    >
    > Hi again, Dan C, AKA "Swede" and a hundred other names.
    >
    > Damn, you are so incredibly CLEVER! You can actually type a different
    > name on the From line.
    >
    > I wish I was a criminal genius like you.
    >
    > Just hang in there. The nice young man in the white coat will be there
    > soon with your shot, then everything will be all better.
    >
    > Tom


    hmmmmm... maybe you are a nitwit, Tom. I'm not Dan C but you are
    definately paranoid.


  11. Re: Shutdown permissions

    On 2007-12-23, ~kurt wrote:
    > Tom N wrote:
    >>
    >> Are you saying that these can be used by an ordinary user? If so, please
    >> tell me how to disable them.

    >
    > Yes, a normal user with physical access to the machine can use any of the
    > magic key options with the default setup (in the same way that Stop A is
    > available to users by default on Sun machines).
    >
    > Since /proc/sysrq-trigger is writable only by root, you don't have to
    > worry about a remote user accessing this functionality (unless they have
    > root access on that machine).
    >
    > I believe:
    >
    > echo 0 > /proc/sys/kernel/sysrq
    > turns it off completely (a value of 1 for sysrq means it is enabled).


    Thanks. It's set to 1 here, as you would imagine.

    I'll put that in my startup scripts.

    >> I hear about Windows users having the problems you are talking about, but
    >> this is the first I've heard of a Linux machine having them. Doesn't seem
    >> like it happens often enough to justify the kind of security hole you
    >> are talking about (assuming a normal user can use these magic keys).

    >
    > Until I installed DoomIII just a few months ago, I hadn't had the home machine
    > lock up since 2001.


    What would you expect with a name like "Doom"? :-)

    > back then, and I was having some issues with the nVidia graphics module. Wait,
    > no, a few months before the DOOM III thing I was experimenting with Java3D.
    > I was using an unsupported version of GLX, and it warned me that something
    > bad could occasionally happen.... But before that - nothing that I can
    > remember since 2001. Some programs can lock up the keyboard (especially
    > graphics ones using OpenGL). It usually seems to be a graphics related
    > issue that causes problems.


    Of all kinds. A lot of them are ruder than hell, for one thing. Ratpoison
    has special commands to control that kind of behavior. One of them is
    called rudeness (1-15). You can lock up rude X apps tighter than a
    frogs butt.

    > At work, any time I have an issue (usually
    > caused by bad software I have written),


    Your candor is refreshing.

    > I can just telnet into the computer
    > and kill the bad guy off and the system is happy after that.


    Cheers,

    Tom


    --
    simpleman.s43
    That would be at gee male


  12. Pine Killfile very slow, was: [OT] Note for Dan C (was:o Re: Shutdownpermissions)

    On Sun, 23 Dec 2007, Swede wrote:

    > Tom N wrote:
    >
    >> Hi Dan C. I'm sorry your boyfriend Allen Connor ditched you for someone
    >> with a bigger hard drive, but it really isn't my fault and I'm not
    >> reading any more of your bitchy posts.

    >
    > ...making you the last person on the internet to put Dan C in your
    > killfile?
    >



    By the way, is this happening to me only? I have two killfiled email
    adresses in Pine rules, but every time I start Pine it scans all
    newsgroups and applies the killfile and this takes 10-15 mins and brings
    the system to its knees.

    Is there a way to import a list of addresses from
    a flat file in Pine?

    I like Pine, this was my first tool in the Unix world but some features
    are a bit quirky.


    --
    Ottavio
    http://www.pledgebank.com/boycottvista

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