On 2007-11-19, loki harfagr wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 01:26:52 +0100, Tom N wrote:
>
>> They look like the little space vehicle that Dave used in "2001 a Space
>> Odyssey".
>>
>> I'd say that I regret all this, but the fact is that I learned a great
>> deal about sound on Linux/Slackware and that's a good thing. Plus, these
>> posts will be here for others to reference along with the other almost
>> concurrent thread on 12.0 sound.
>>
>> Many thanks to you, Loki, and Ron, and to notbob and Charlie Siegrist.
>>
>> Now, about getting my CDRW to play tunes on my box. :-)
>>
>> I'll start a new thread about that.
>>
>> Can I use cdparanoia to copy them onto my harddrive and play the files
>> from there? Or am I misunderstanding the description in packages.txt?
>

Hi Loki,

> No, that's right you can do it that way, there are other options
> I personnally prefer (and I'm sure Joerg will say so if he happens to
> pass by ;-):

??? Did he write them?

> cdda2wav and cdrdao, you can "tune" cdda2wav to mimick
> cdparanoia (I'll let you find out how in the doc, it's crystal clear)
> or chose other useful settings, and it has better control on hardware
> and data flow.
>
> If you want to extract tracks:
>
> $ cdda2wav -B -D /dev/hdc
>
> Or, extract the 6 first tracks:
> $ cdda2wav -B -D /dev/hdc -t 1+6
>
> (which would be exactly what the doctor ordered in case
> you're rip'in a phoney CDaudio [like a Cactus-Crippled CD])

I've had pretty good luck with cdparanoia. Though it did fail
to copy two tracks that play fine on a boom box.

> This would allow you to quickly transmute the wav files into
> good lossless Flac format or good lossy ogg vorbis format or
> even to wacky mpeg layer3 variations :-) eg:
>
> If you want to get a disk image, just use cdrdao, eg:
> $ cdrdao read-toc
> $ cdrdao disk-info --device /dev/hdc
> $ cdrdao read --read-raw --datafile vanWelke.iso --device 1001,0,0 vanWelke.toc

Am I understanding you correctly? Those will produce "Flac" versions of the
tracks on an audio CD? I don't see a mention of Flac in the aplay manpage...

>
> Note that for the use and choice of what device name and/or
> type to use you'll have to read a few lines in the man pages and
> then experiment with your installation to check what'll suit it
> the best, especially since -- as Ron Gibson noted afore -- it's
> not yet clear if you have fully connected CD hardware or not,
> if the doodah's quite recent I'd say it's OK but YMMV :-)
>
> Hold on ! At the end of the rainbow there's happiness ;D)

Better than a pot of gold!

I found the cdrdao package and the cdda2wav package. Will install
them and read the docs.

The above examples will help.

Thanks, Loki,

Tom

On 2007-11-20, Tom N wrote:
> On 2007-11-19, Ron Gibson wrote:
>> On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 01:26:52 +0100, Tom N wrote:
>>
>>> I'd say that I regret all this, but the fact is that I learned a great
>>> deal about sound on Linux/Slackware and that's a good thing. Plus, these
>>> posts will be here for others to reference along with the other almost
>>> concurrent thread on 12.0 sound.
>>
>> Oh one more item that in general is good to know. When you play with
>> some of these services you may need to retsart the service sometimes.
>>
>> Most services are initialized in /etc/rc.d/ : The rc scripts that are
>> executable (mc hand here) are the one run on boot.
>>
>> For example you will see an rc.alsa script that is executable there.
>
> It's there, and executable, (.../init.d/rc.alsa) but it doesn't run.
> I checked dmesg and /var/log/messages and /var/log/syslog. It's not
> mentioned in /etc/init.d/rc.S or .../rc.K, but it is in .../rc.M.

Oops. Those files are not in init.d, but just in rc.d.

Tom

Tue, 20 Nov 2007 02:06:56 +0100, Tom N did catÂ*:

> On 2007-11-19, loki harfagr wrote:
>> On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 01:26:52 +0100, Tom N wrote:
....
>>> I'll start a new thread about that.
>>>
>>> Can I use cdparanoia to copy them onto my harddrive and play the files
>>> from there? Or am I misunderstanding the description in packages.txt?
>>
>>
> Hi Loki,

Hi Tom, remember this is a Usenet group, not really a
mailing list, if we all start to cheers hello to each other on
every post it certainly will be a nice place but the reading
may become a bit overpowered ;D)

>> No, that's right you can do it that way, there are other options
>> I personnally prefer (and I'm sure Joerg will say so if he happens to
>> pass by ;-):
>
> ??? Did he write them?

Check the cdrtools site ;-)

>> cdda2wav and cdrdao, you can "tune" cdda2wav to mimick cdparanoia (I'll
>> let you find out how in the doc, it's crystal clear) or chose other
>> useful settings, and it has better control on hardware and data flow.
>>
>> If you want to extract tracks:
>>
>> $ cdda2wav -B -D /dev/hdc
>>
>> Or, extract the 6 first tracks:
>> $ cdda2wav -B -D /dev/hdc -t 1+6
>>
>> (which would be exactly what the doctor ordered in case
>> you're rip'in a phoney CDaudio [like a Cactus-Crippled CD])
>
> I've had pretty good luck with cdparanoia. Though it did fail to copy
> two tracks that play fine on a boom box.

Then that'll be an interesting test to check the same CD with
cdda2wav, if you like the cdparanoia settings use it with
the -paranoia switch :-)

>> This would allow you to quickly transmute the wav files into
>> good lossless Flac format or good lossy ogg vorbis format or even to
>> wacky mpeg layer3 variations :-) eg:
>>
>> If you want to get a disk image, just use cdrdao, eg:
>> $ cdrdao read-toc
>> $ cdrdao disk-info --device /dev/hdc
>> $ cdrdao read --read-raw --datafile vanWelke.iso --device 1001,0,0
>> vanWelke.toc
>
> Am I understanding you correctly? Those will produce "Flac" versions of
> the tracks on an audio CD? I don't see a mention of Flac in the aplay
> manpage...

The extract tools will produce RIFF (wav or aif), sun (au) or raw (cdr)
formats but in case you like to keep them in lossless format the Flac
utility is recommended (globally 50p100 size saved).
(I was just fooling around about Open projects vs Closed ;-)

(
something along this line will play your flac files:
$ flac -d -c yourfile.flac | aplay
)

On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 02:06:45 +0100, Tom N wrote:

>> It really is a lot easier than this sounds especially if you know
>> where the mobo socket is.

> No clue. I searched the Gateway website for information on my computer,
> using google, and there was not a single reference to it there.

Well what you have to do is open the case and look for the actual maker
of the mobo. Gateway does not make mobos - They buy them in large lots.
Also there is a very good chance it is marked in small print (The
connector and/or the mobo model). You may need a magnifying glass and
flashlight to see the print.

I am not surprised Gateway didn't tell you which mobo they used. When I
said look it up I meant from the actual maker of the mobo.

Unfortunately I do not know of a utility that will ID a mobo under
Linux. Sandra which is a windows app is the only thing I've ever seen
that will do that.

Wait - This isn't a laptop is it?

If not actually the easiest thing would be to go down to a repair shop
and ask them when they are not busy to show you a sound card and cable.
There are two type analog and a digital (SPDIF, IIRC). I like the analog
ones. They are just easier for me to work with. Once you see what they
look like you most likely can spot the right socket immediately on your
mobo. It's a small thing about 3/4" WIDE AND 1/8" thick. There will be 4
connection points on the plug but only 3 are used. The center two are
grounds and the outer two are Left and Right channel. So the worst you
can do is reverse the channels.

--
Email - rsgibson@verizon.borg
Replace borg with net

On 2007-11-20, Loki Harfagr wrote:
> Tue, 20 Nov 2007 02:06:56 +0100, Tom N did cat*:
>
>> On 2007-11-19, loki harfagr wrote:
>>> On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 01:26:52 +0100, Tom N wrote:
> ...
>>>> I'll start a new thread about that.
>>>>
>>>> Can I use cdparanoia to copy them onto my harddrive and play the files
>>>> from there? Or am I misunderstanding the description in packages.txt?
>>>
>>>
>> Hi Loki,
>
> Hi Tom, remember this is a Usenet group, not really a
> mailing list, if we all start to cheers hello to each other on
> every post it certainly will be a nice place but the reading
> may become a bit overpowered ;D)

Hi Loki,

Devoting a single line to simple courtesy doesn't do any harm at all.
And it might help things improve around here. There are some serious jerks on
this group, and such people thrive in an atmosphere of rudeness.

>>> No, that's right you can do it that way, there are other options
>>> I personnally prefer (and I'm sure Joerg will say so if he happens to
>>> pass by ;-):
>>
>> ??? Did he write them?
>
> Check the cdrtools site ;-)

I will.

>>> cdda2wav and cdrdao, you can "tune" cdda2wav to mimick cdparanoia (I'll
>>> let you find out how in the doc, it's crystal clear) or chose other
>>> useful settings, and it has better control on hardware and data flow.
>>>
>>> If you want to extract tracks:
>>>
>>> $ cdda2wav -B -D /dev/hdc
>>>
>>> Or, extract the 6 first tracks:
>>> $ cdda2wav -B -D /dev/hdc -t 1+6
>>>
>>> (which would be exactly what the doctor ordered in case
>>> you're rip'in a phoney CDaudio [like a Cactus-Crippled CD])
>>
>> I've had pretty good luck with cdparanoia. Though it did fail to copy
>> two tracks that play fine on a boom box.
>
> Then that'll be an interesting test to check the same CD with
> cdda2wav, if you like the cdparanoia settings use it with
> the -paranoia switch :-)

Okay. I look forward to it.

>
>>> This would allow you to quickly transmute the wav files into
>>> good lossless Flac format or good lossy ogg vorbis format or even to
>>> wacky mpeg layer3 variations :-) eg:
>>>
>>> If you want to get a disk image, just use cdrdao, eg:
>>> $ cdrdao read-toc
>>> $ cdrdao disk-info --device /dev/hdc
>>> $ cdrdao read --read-raw --datafile vanWelke.iso --device 1001,0,0
>>> vanWelke.toc
>>
>> Am I understanding you correctly? Those will produce "Flac" versions of
>> the tracks on an audio CD? I don't see a mention of Flac in the aplay
>> manpage...
>
> The extract tools will produce RIFF (wav or aif), sun (au) or raw (cdr)
> formats but in case you like to keep them in lossless format the Flac
> utility is recommended (globally 50p100 size saved).
> (I was just fooling around about Open projects vs Closed ;-)
>
> (
> something along this line will play your flac files:
> $ flac -d -c yourfile.flac | aplay
> )

I found the flac package. Thanks for another example.

What does "lossless" mean in this context?


Tom

On 2007-11-20, Ron Gibson wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 02:06:45 +0100, Tom N wrote:
>
>>> It really is a lot easier than this sounds especially if you know
>>> where the mobo socket is.
>
>> No clue. I searched the Gateway website for information on my computer,
>> using google, and there was not a single reference to it there.

Greetings, Ron,

>
> Well what you have to do is open the case and look for the actual maker
> of the mobo. Gateway does not make mobos - They buy them in large lots.
> Also there is a very good chance it is marked in small print (The
> connector and/or the mobo model). You may need a magnifying glass and
> flashlight to see the print.
>
> I am not surprised Gateway didn't tell you which mobo they used. When I
> said look it up I meant from the actual maker of the mobo.

I have the original packing slip and it doesn't list the motherboard.

> Unfortunately I do not know of a utility that will ID a mobo under
> Linux. Sandra which is a windows app is the only thing I've ever seen
> that will do that.

Be nice to have. Can't that utility be ported to Unix/Linux? Aren't
there utilities that will make the changes in the source code?

>
> Wait - This isn't a laptop is it?

No. It's a horizontal system unit that takes low-profile cards with
a CRT.

>
> If not actually the easiest thing would be to go down to a repair shop
> and ask them when they are not busy to show you a sound card and cable.
> There are two type analog and a digital (SPDIF, IIRC). I like the analog
> ones. They are just easier for me to work with. Once you see what they
> look like you most likely can spot the right socket immediately on your
> mobo. It's a small thing about 3/4" WIDE AND 1/8" thick. There will be 4
> connection points on the plug but only 3 are used. The center two are
> grounds and the outer two are Left and Right channel. So the worst you
> can do is reverse the channels.
>

That sounds like a good idea. I've looked over the board. The only apparent
sockets are a group of three with "JATD" (I think) beside them. They are
near the PCI slots.

They are shaped much like this:

# .....
# .... | |.....
# | o o o o |
# ~~~~~a~~~~~~b~~~
# 1..............2

With the four "o"' being metal pins. The center one is yellow, the outer ones are
black and green. The distance from "1" to "2" is about 1/2". "a" and "b"
are grooves in the plastic that go to the board, or close to it. The heighth
of the sockets are are maybe 1/4". They are butted against each other, one
above the other, aligned as above.

I don't see the name of the motherboard, but a lot of it is covered by the
CD and floppy and I'm not sure I would recognize it if I saw it :-\.

Tom

On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 23:29:55 +0100, Tom N wrote:

> With the four "o"' being metal pins. The center one is yellow, the
> outer
> ones are black and green. The distance from "1" to "2" is about 1/2". "a"
> and "b" are grooves in the plastic that go to the board, or close to it.
> The heighth of the sockets are are maybe 1/4". They are butted against
> each other, one above the other, aligned as above.

> I don't see the name of the motherboard, but a lot of it is covered by the
> CD and floppy and I'm not sure I would recognize it if I saw it :-\.

OK. What you posted helps. Unfortunately Gateway had some bad habits
when they were building those slim line type desktops. I'd try going to
the repair shop and asking to see one of those cables and a sound card.
They are always packaged with a PC CD or DVD drive when bought
separately. Sometimes a sound card will include one also. You might look
at the rear of your CD drive. Looking from the rear the analog output
will be the socket on the far left. If there are two next to each other,
the one inside is usually an SPDIF digital output - Does same thing but
is digital.

It may very well turn out that you'll have to buy a sound card to get
sound out of the CD drive. Gateway was really in bed with MS back then
and they may have ordered a batch of mobos that does not have the
connector as they assumed you would be running W98 only which doesn't
use the connector.

Oh here is just the thing you need to get a better idea...

http://compreviews.about.com/od/tuto...DIYCDDVD_6.htm

or

http://tinyurl.com/3b2vwm

Here is an excellent picture of what the cable looks like...

http://www.frontx.com/pro/c206_024.html

or...

http://tinyurl.com/ysmfap

Pick a sound card if you have to with guidance from here...

http://www.alsa-project.org/main/ind...x:Main#Vendors

or

http://tinyurl.com/2hm8vl

--
Email - rsgibson@verizon.borg
Replace borg with net

Tom N says:
>On 2007-11-20, Ron Gibson wrote:

>Greetings, Ron,

Smooch. Smoochie koo! Smoochie woochie!

>> Well what you have to do is open the case and look for the actual
>> maker of the mobo. Gateway does not make mobos - They buy them in
>> large lots. Also there is a very good chance it is marked in
>> small print (The connector and/or the mobo model). You may need a
>> magnifying glass and flashlight to see the print.

>> I am not surprised Gateway didn't tell you which mobo they used.
>> When I said look it up I meant from the actual maker of the mobo.

>I have the original packing slip and it doesn't list the motherboard.

Phone them up and ask them, moron.

Now, run along. Please. Find a more appropriate forum for your
asskissing, ok?

cordially, as always,

rm

On 2007-11-21, Ron Gibson wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 23:29:55 +0100, Tom N wrote:
>
>> With the four "o"' being metal pins. The center one is yellow, the
>> outer
>> ones are black and green. The distance from "1" to "2" is about 1/2". "a"
>> and "b" are grooves in the plastic that go to the board, or close to it.
>> The heighth of the sockets are are maybe 1/4". They are butted against
>> each other, one above the other, aligned as above.
>
>> I don't see the name of the motherboard, but a lot of it is covered by the
>> CD and floppy and I'm not sure I would recognize it if I saw it :-\.
>

Ron,

> OK. What you posted helps. Unfortunately Gateway had some bad habits
> when they were building those slim line type desktops. I'd try going to
> the repair shop and asking to see one of those cables and a sound card.
> They are always packaged with a PC CD or DVD drive when bought
> separately. Sometimes a sound card will include one also. You might look
> at the rear of your CD drive. Looking from the rear the analog output
> will be the socket on the far left. If there are two next to each other,
> the one inside is usually an SPDIF digital output - Does same thing but
> is digital.

There seems to be two jacks on the left side. What looks like the outside
one is smaller than the inside one, which is a mirror image of the ones
I described above. That outside one has only two pins.

Are those the right ones? Looks like it from the picture of the cable
on the website below.

Then there's one further right that's quite different in appearance,
with the pins kind of exposed and grouped in a bunch, rather than
side-by-side, with a white plastic tab beside them.

>
> It may very well turn out that you'll have to buy a sound card to get
> sound out of the CD drive. Gateway was really in bed with MS back then
> and they may have ordered a batch of mobos that does not have the
> connector as they assumed you would be running W98 only which doesn't
> use the connector.
>
> Oh here is just the thing you need to get a better idea...
>
> http://compreviews.about.com/od/tuto...DIYCDDVD_6.htm
>
> or
>
> http://tinyurl.com/3b2vwm

Those look like the connectors on my mother board, all right.

Why do you think they aren't the right ones?

>
> Here is an excellent picture of what the cable looks like...
>
> http://www.frontx.com/pro/c206_024.html

Yeh. They look they'd fit right into those sockets on my
motherboard.

>
> or...
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ysmfap
>
> Pick a sound card if you have to with guidance from here...
>
> http://www.alsa-project.org/main/ind...x:Main#Vendors
>
> or
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2hm8vl
>

Are you sure I need a soundcard?


Thanks much. I'll read the whole tutorial carefully.


Tom

On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 23:29:15 +0100, Tom N wrote:

> On 2007-11-20, Loki Harfagr wrote:
>> Tue, 20 Nov 2007 02:06:56 +0100, Tom N did catÂ*:
>>
>>> On 2007-11-19, loki harfagr wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 01:26:52 +0100, Tom N wrote:
>> ...
>>>>> I'll start a new thread about that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Can I use cdparanoia to copy them onto my harddrive and play the
>>>>> files from there? Or am I misunderstanding the description in
>>>>> packages.txt?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Hi Loki,
>>
>> Hi Tom, remember this is a Usenet group, not really a mailing list, if
>> we all start to cheers hello to each other on every post it certainly
>> will be a nice place but the reading may become a bit overpowered ;D)
>
> Hi Loki,
>
> Devoting a single line to simple courtesy doesn't do any harm at all.
> And it might help things improve around here. There are some serious
> jerks on this group, and such people thrive in an atmosphere of
> rudeness.

OK, so... Hello Tom ;-)

>>>> No, that's right you can do it that way, there are other options
>>>> I personnally prefer (and I'm sure Joerg will say so if he happens to
>>>> pass by ;-):
>>>
>>> ??? Did he write them?
>>
>> Check the cdrtools site ;-)
>
> I will.

I think you'd find the name in the cdrecord man page as well.

....
>>> Am I understanding you correctly? Those will produce "Flac" versions
>>> of the tracks on an audio CD? I don't see a mention of Flac in the
>>> aplay manpage...
>>
>> The extract tools will produce RIFF (wav or aif), sun (au) or raw (cdr)
>> formats but in case you like to keep them in lossless format the Flac
>> utility is recommended (globally 50p100 size saved).
>> (I was just fooling around about Open projects vs Closed ;-)
>>
>> (
>> something along this line will play your flac files:
>> $ flac -d -c yourfile.flac | aplay
>> )
>
> I found the flac package. Thanks for another example.

just in case, here's the equivalent with ogg123 decoder:
$ ogg123 -d wav -f - $* | aplay

of course there are many integrated tools in GUI that will
play most every format, but I thought someone interested in ratware
would enjoy to have a few lines to type ;-)

> What does "lossless" mean in this context?

Like for images, there are two main types of compression, 'lossless' and
'lossy', the RIFF(wav and Aif) used in CD tracks is a direct sound code
sequence, if you compress it with flac then uncompress it, you'll get the
exact same sequence of code, that's what a lossless audio compress
algorithm *has* to do.

If you use a 'lossy' algorithm, like eg. mpeg or vorbis you'll introduce
artefacts in the redecoded sequence, if you do the compress/uncomp several
times you may even get a really much more funny song than the original,
but in most cases all you'll get will be having the experience of an old
radio set drowning in a pool while an helicopter tries to punch it,
quite the same effect for sound that you'll get in text if you use a
systranslator through a loop of several different languages, I'm
sure you know this game ;-)

On 2007-11-21, loki harfagr wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 23:29:15 +0100, Tom N wrote:

......

>
> OK, so... Hello Tom ;-)

:-)

Hi Loki.

....

>>>> Am I understanding you correctly? Those will produce "Flac" versions
>>>> of the tracks on an audio CD? I don't see a mention of Flac in the
>>>> aplay manpage...
>>>
>>> The extract tools will produce RIFF (wav or aif), sun (au) or raw (cdr)
>>> formats but in case you like to keep them in lossless format the Flac
>>> utility is recommended (globally 50p100 size saved).
>>> (I was just fooling around about Open projects vs Closed ;-)
>>>
>>> (
>>> something along this line will play your flac files:
>>> $ flac -d -c yourfile.flac | aplay
>>> )
>>
>> I found the flac package. Thanks for another example.
>
> just in case, here's the equivalent with ogg123 decoder:
> $ ogg123 -d wav -f - $* | aplay

Thanks. I'll put it in my sound notes file.

> of course there are many integrated tools in GUI that will
> play most every format, but I thought someone interested in ratware
> would enjoy to have a few lines to type ;-)

You got that right. I can also write simple scripts that will make
using the commandline tools very easy indeed.

>> What does "lossless" mean in this context?
>
> Like for images, there are two main types of compression, 'lossless' and
> 'lossy', the RIFF(wav and Aif) used in CD tracks is a direct sound code
> sequence, if you compress it with flac then uncompress it, you'll get the
> exact same sequence of code, that's what a lossless audio compress
> algorithm *has* to do.
>
> If you use a 'lossy' algorithm, like eg. mpeg or vorbis you'll introduce
> artefacts in the redecoded sequence, if you do the compress/uncomp several
> times you may even get a really much more funny song than the original,
> but in most cases all you'll get will be having the experience of an old
> radio set drowning in a pool while an helicopter tries to punch it,
> quite the same effect for sound that you'll get in text if you use a
> systranslator through a loop of several different languages, I'm
> sure you know this game ;-)

Okay, you've convinced me. I'll be using Flac. Those WAV files are huge,
and compression will be a big help, but not if it is going to wreck them.

Clearly, spending the time to learn to use the cdrtools and flac will
be worth the investment.

Cheers,

Tom

On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 10:16:46 +0100, Tom N wrote:

> Okay, you've convinced me. I'll be using Flac. Those WAV files are huge,
> and compression will be a big help, but not if it is going to wreck them.
>
> Clearly, spending the time to learn to use the cdrtools and flac will
> be worth the investment.

The compression ratio flac achieves is not great, about 1/2 the size of
the original .wav. Worth having, of course.

Before you encode all your music in flac, you may want to read about the
critical vulnerability issue that surfaced this week (think it was
slashdotted) and maybe wait until there is a fix.

On 2007-11-21, Mark South wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 10:16:46 +0100, Tom N wrote:
>
>> Okay, you've convinced me. I'll be using Flac. Those WAV files are huge,
>> and compression will be a big help, but not if it is going to wreck them.
>>
>> Clearly, spending the time to learn to use the cdrtools and flac will
>> be worth the investment.

Hi Mark,

>
> The compression ratio flac achieves is not great, about 1/2 the size of
> the original .wav. Worth having, of course.

Good to know.

> Before you encode all your music in flac, you may want to read about the
> critical vulnerability issue that surfaced this week (think it was
> slashdotted) and maybe wait until there is a fix.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Vulnerability to what?

Tom

On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 12:00:51 +0100, Tom N wrote:

> On 2007-11-21, Mark South wrote:
>> On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 10:16:46 +0100, Tom N wrote:
>>
>>> Okay, you've convinced me. I'll be using Flac. Those WAV files are huge,
>>> and compression will be a big help, but not if it is going to wreck them.
>>>
>>> Clearly, spending the time to learn to use the cdrtools and flac will
>>> be worth the investment.
>
> Hi Mark,

Hi Tom :-) <------------ rm flamebait

>> The compression ratio flac achieves is not great, about 1/2 the size of
>> the original .wav. Worth having, of course.
>
> Good to know.

Not scientific estimates by any means, just random observations.

>> Before you encode all your music in flac, you may want to read about the
>> critical vulnerability issue that surfaced this week (think it was
>> slashdotted) and maybe wait until there is a fix.
>
> I have no idea what you are talking about. Vulnerability to what?

There was a critical security vulnerability discovered in flac, the devs
are working on fixing it now. Personally, I have never downloaded a flac
file from a website and played it, so I'm not worried. All mine are
distilled from the original CDs. And I live in Europe, so I'm allowed
to do that under fair use.

Cheers,
Mark

On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 08:34:30 +1000, Richard James wrote:

> ...someone could possibly inject poison into beer in a
> bottle shop.

What are you trying to do, ruin everyone's day or something?
--
Signature is going teetotal as of now.

On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 13:09:14 +0100, Mark South wrote:

> On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 12:00:51 +0100, Tom N wrote:
>
>> On 2007-11-21, Mark South wrote:
>>> On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 10:16:46 +0100, Tom N wrote:
>>>
>>>> Okay, you've convinced me. I'll be using Flac. Those WAV files are
>>>> huge, and compression will be a big help, but not if it is going to
>>>> wreck them.
>>>>
>>>> Clearly, spending the time to learn to use the cdrtools and flac will
>>>> be worth the investment.
>>
>> Hi Mark,
>
> Hi Tom :-) <------------ rm flamebait

That won't be good for the S/N ratio )
Oh well, Hi Tom, Hi Mark, Hi Tom and Mark.

>>> The compression ratio flac achieves is not great, about 1/2 the size
>>> of the original .wav. Worth having, of course.
>>
>> Good to know.
>
> Not scientific estimates by any means, just random observations.

That has to be it, it's close to the theoretical limit of a
general lossless sound compress algorithm. And besides the
theoretical and hairy maths behind you just have the
pudding proof by looking at the comparizon tables between the
recent (10 years) software in this class. Some will be
slightly better on some types of soundfiles but all in all
it is all around fifty fifty and the main differences are in
the facilities, the possibilities to use it in low-end
components and/or the compress/decompress speeds.
Whether based on rice algorithm or on time chart analysis
(like the Roland compression used in their multitrack recorders)
makes no difference on a global data field, absolute chaos in
data means entropy for the compressor, nothing can be done,
that's the ordered beauty of music that allows to have a chance to
find a way to "simplify" the representation of its data :-)

>>> Before you encode all your music in flac, you may want to read about
>>> the critical vulnerability issue that surfaced this week (think it was
>>> slashdotted) and maybe wait until there is a fix.
>>
>> I have no idea what you are talking about. Vulnerability to what?
>
> There was a critical security vulnerability discovered in flac,

Well, I didn't pay much attention to it because that's for an
external attack and we were about the use of flac as a room maker
for collections but that's certainly could be a problem for
embedded stuff or for some too fast downloaders ;-)

On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 12:00:55 +0100, Tom N wrote:

> On 2007-11-21, loki harfagr wrote:
>> On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 10:16:46 +0100, Tom N wrote:
>
> Greetings Loki, linux/unix guru par exellence.

Slanderous allegation!

> How have you been, old
> sod? Wife and kids doing good? Little Johnny still active in the Cub
> Scouts? How'd the church picnic go? Yer wife make that godawful
> Hungarian potato salad again? You should never put turnips in a potato
> salad, it is a crime, no?

Hum, what's goin'on here? Was that again bait for kooks or
you just gone kook as well ?-D)
>
> ;-)

Now, do behave!

....
>> Anyway, these special won't ever use 44.KHz 16 bits, nothing less
>> than 192KHz 24bits please ;-)
>
> :-)
>
> Are there really people like that?

A lot, they outnumber honest lawyers ten million to one,
they should then be around 5 million if the guy's not dead...

> I just want to listen to good music,
> and it makes sense to use a lossless compression program. Probably need
> to add a second hard drive for music otherwise.

And probably also depends on how many songs you can have the time to
listen to in your life :-)
Approx. 11 MB per minute in CDformat (44.1KHz,16bits)
5.5 MB per minute in flac.
1 or 2 MB per minute in vorbis.

Or, to see it in the HD POV:
320 GB will play continuously (roughly):
20 days in wav
6 weeks in flac
7 months in vorbis

Tom N wrote:

> There seems to be two jacks on the left side. What looks like the outside
> one is smaller than the inside one, which is a mirror image of the ones
> I described above. That outside one has only two pins.

The one on the left with two pins sounds like the digital audio out. The
one just to the right of that with four pins sounds like the analog audio
out.

>
> Are those the right ones? Looks like it from the picture of the cable
> on the website below.
>
> Then there's one further right that's quite different in appearance,
> with the pins kind of exposed and grouped in a bunch, rather than
> side-by-side, with a white plastic tab beside them.

That sounds the jumper configuration block which lets you choose if the
device is master, slave, or cable selected.

>
Newegg has a nice picture of the rear of a CD drive with all of the
connectors labeled.

this link goes to the product pictures for Item#:N82E16827106228 a LITE-ON
dvd drive.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/yszh32

>
> Are you sure I need a soundcard?

No.
http://www.nabble.com/Still-can&#39;t-pl...-t4139431.html

>
>
> Thanks much. I'll read the whole tutorial carefully.
>
>
> Tom

--
Ed

On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 02:28:38 +0100, Tom N wrote:

>> http://tinyurl.com/2hm8vl

> Are you sure I need a soundcard?

Well you need to get the cable and try. The suggestions for other cards
are if you can't get it working. Also look real hard now on the mobo for
a hint. All modern boards now have silk screened the print on these
things and you hardly need to refer to the manual anymore. Older boards
were not so accomadating.

They'll name the socket "AUX" or "CD", something like that.

Just leave the case cover off and try one then the other if the first
one doesn't work. Be sure to always power down when changing mobo
connectors. I power down and pull the power cord from the power supply
for 10 seconds myself before making a cable change.

Unfortunately I've found these little cables are sometimes hard to find
in stores like CompUSA. If you can't find one there try a small shop.
Usually they cannabilize old machines and keep parts like these for when
needed. As I said there's been one included with every CD or DVD drive
I've ever bought.Oh here you go...

http://www.compusa.com/products/prod...&Ntt=cd+audio+
cable&N=0&df=0&Nty=1&Ntk=All&product_code=294966

or...

http://tinyurl.com/2jkgln

In fact if you carry the box there with the case open they might just sell
you one and plug it in for free! It only takes a few seconds.

BTW, you can use workbone in a VT to test it if you like, again the
simplest way to test things. See if you have it installed (which
workbone).

workbone: workbone (text-based CD player)

workbone: WorkBone is a simple interactive tool for for playing audio CDs
from the Linux console.

If not...

ftp://ftp.slackware.no/pub/linux/sla.../slackware/ap/
workbone-2.40-i386-3.tgz

or...

http://tinyurl.com/2ajq93

Have you gotten your slocate database up to date yet? Might want to do
that because here pretty soon you gonna need to find things easily.

--
Email - rsgibson@verizon.borg
Replace borg with net