I Need Some Help With X-Window System - Slackware

This is a discussion on I Need Some Help With X-Window System - Slackware ; Tom N wrote: > Everyone here seems great to me. Except that one fellow, who is probably posting > from Ward 16 at the state mental hospital. That's rm, our windoze/mouse fanatic. If it can't be done by using a ...

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Thread: I Need Some Help With X-Window System

  1. Re: I Need Some Help With X-Window System

    Tom N wrote:

    > Everyone here seems great to me. Except that one fellow, who is probably posting
    > from Ward 16 at the state mental hospital.


    That's rm, our windoze/mouse fanatic. If it can't be done by using a
    mouse, its outdated, stupid and evil. No doubt he's partial to this
    particular input device due to his superior skill at fondling small things.

    nb

  2. Re: I Need Some Help With X-Window System

    On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 12:30:15 +0100, Tom N wrote:

    > On 2007-11-14, ~kurt wrote:
    >> Tom N wrote:
    >>>
    >>> VERY interesting. Condensed history. I'll have to read that a few
    >>> times and

    >>
    >> We have our share of crazies. The group Mr_full_of_himself believed
    >> that Pat V. had to listen to his ideas or Slackware would fail (people
    >> have been saying that for a while). He considers me the group
    >> sociopath, and Alan the group bully. GP was also very full of himself,
    >> not being able to understand how Slackware could survive without his
    >> input. Then, there was Allan (sp?) Connor (one of many aliases) who
    >> was a bit schizo. Connor had this belief that he was some super hacker
    >> for using Slackware. It was funny because he would keep coming back
    >> under a different name, but would essentially out himself when he went
    >> into one of his little rants. I haven't quite figured out what Dan C
    >> is. I know he likes guns, so he can't be all bad.



    This questioning should be a good track to have a clue on the topic
    of 'liking guns'...
    Well, besides, I like knives ;D)


    >> But, other than
    >> that....
    >>
    >> - Kurt

    >
    > Wow! a regular sap-opera. (Joke) I'm almost sorry I missed it.
    >
    > Everyone here seems great to me. Except that one fellow, who is probably
    > posting from Ward 16 at the state mental hospital.



    You may like to read the report Alice Cooper wrote
    about this place a few years before it existed ;-)

    ---
    Vicious Rumours

    You feel the knife stuck in your back
    You feel it twist and you hear it crack
    Can't make a sound for the sudden pain
    You wish your blood were novocaine

    You see the smoke and you feel the flak
    You're burning up and you're turning black
    They say you fell and you hit your head
    Your other bun is Whitenbread

    Vicious rumours, paranoic fears
    Sonic boomers ringing in your ears
    All of this is getting normal now
    You'll never go back to your farming plough
    Vicious rumours

    You're right at home back at William's flat
    You heard a sound you turned and shot your cat
    Your hands are shaking, everybody sees
    And there's a rhythm drumming in your knees

    You return into a foreign night
    Inside you know something is just not right
    Sometimes you duck when you see your pet
    Canary turned into a Saber jet

    Shocked consumer - you're just an average guy
    Swelling tumor pushing on your eye
    And now you know why all the headaches come
    And why you're getting progressively numb
    Vicious rumours

    I've been denied, debriefed, detuned
    Sometimes I howl right at the moon
    My family treats me gradually
    They know my volatility

    Vicious rumours, paranoic fears
    Sonic boomers ringing in your ears
    And now I know why all the headaches come
    And why you're getting progressively numb
    Vicious rumours

    (Vicious rumours) [ x8 ]

    Who do you think we are [ x5 ]
    We don't care
    We don't care
    ---

    quite catalyst and sightful isn't it?

  3. Re: I Need Some Help With X-Window System

    On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 18:44:58 +0000, loki harfagr wrote:

    >> Everyone here seems great to me. Except that one fellow, who is probably
    >> posting from Ward 16 at the state mental hospital.

    >
    >
    > You may like to read the report Alice Cooper wrote
    > about this place a few years before it existed ;-)


    (snipppppppp...)

    These days, a.o.l.s is pretty tame, and the real keyboard nutjobs,
    spammers, wintrolls, headcases, multiple personalities, &c., are to be
    found in far greater profusion in alt.os.linux.ubuntu.

    All that lacks so far from a.o.l.ubuntu is someone promoting
    challenge-response mail systems - once one of those arrives, happiness
    will be complete.

    Mark
    --
    Signature requires you to respond to a challenge before it can be read.

  4. Re: I Need Some Help With X-Window System

    On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 19:55:43 +0100, Mark South wrote:

    > On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 18:44:58 +0000, loki harfagr wrote:
    >
    >>> Everyone here seems great to me. Except that one fellow, who is
    >>> probably posting from Ward 16 at the state mental hospital.

    >>
    >>
    >> You may like to read the report Alice Cooper wrote about this place a
    >> few years before it existed ;-)

    >
    > (snipppppppp...)
    >
    > These days, a.o.l.s is pretty tame,


    that's a fact.

    > and the real keyboard nutjobs,
    > spammers, wintrolls, headcases, multiple personalities, &c., are to be
    > found in far greater profusion in alt.os.linux.ubuntu.


    probably, though it's a shared honour with many groups like col.misc

    > All that lacks so far from a.o.l.ubuntu is someone promoting
    > challenge-response mail systems


    So they decided to shot them in the foot by proxy but
    with instant effect !?
    Quite very good bad bad news indeed ;D)

    > - once one of those arrives, happiness
    > will be complete.


    ...
    Gal Surgeon advice(replace with your localized usual fool sticker)
    *not to be played at home.*

  5. Re: I Need Some Help With X-Window System

    On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 03:32:53 +0000, ~kurt wrote:

    > A decade ago, this newsgroup was fairly mature in terms of peoples'
    > dispositions. Simple repetitive easily searched questions were not shot
    > down with an elitist attitude, but suggestions to seach the web
    > (pre-google) were not taken as an insult either. I guess it was about 6
    > years ago someone named +Chiron+ had some anger management issues, and
    > took a great deal of pleasure degrading and insulting people. At the same
    > time the Slackware.com forums were being shut down, and a number of really
    > clueless people, along with BSD trolls, came to this group. Everything
    > combined led to what I would call the dark ages for this newsgroup. rm,
    > the Resident Moron, is the afterbirth of this period as he is a well known
    > troll who had his feelings hurt at some point in time (probably by
    > +Chiron+), and has kind of become the group's herpes infection - he just
    > hangs around like baggage. While +Chiron+ was a dick, he was also very
    > helpful, and was often right about many things. The concept of looking
    > for an answer before blurting out a question was emphasized by him, as was
    > understanding what was going on under the hood. Many of the regulars at
    > the time who were somewhat sympathetic to +Chiron+ on some level (like I
    > said, he did bring some good things to the group) were labeled BOZOs, and
    > such people generally embrace the philosophy behind Slackware - simple,
    > stable, Unix-like. That is kind of the quick history, anyway, the way I
    > remember it....


    Pretty good recap. IMO, the +C+ guy was more a presumptuous ass than
    anything else.

    Slackware newsgroups also have another early history. Before the
    internet was widely available something called a BBS was very popular
    for us in the 9600 dial up modem clan. Some of them, not many early on,
    also carried USENET but more than likely it was FIDO, another type of
    newsgroup thing. That's where I got the idea to try Slackware. My first
    kernel was version 0.9 :-) I can't remember what Pat was using for a
    version number for Slackware. It (installation media) fit onto what guys,
    about 7-8 floppies?

    I see a few people I've seen posting all the way back to then on FIDO.

    --
    Linux Help: http://rsgibson.com/linux.htm
    Email - rsgibson@verizon.borg
    Replace borg with net


  6. Re: I Need Some Help With X-Window System

    On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 03:17:44 +0100, Tom N wrote:

    > Even after I raised the DefaultDepth to 24, web pages with Firefox were
    > still loading too slow, and I was still getting those mtrr error messages
    > from the kernel, so I read the mtrr document in the kernel sources and
    > decided to cut the video ram that Xorg came up with (according to
    > /var/log/Xorg.0.log) in half, and it worked.


    > I put this in the Devices Section of my /etc/X11/xorg.conf file


    > VideoRam 4096


    > Now everything seems to be okay and the kernel error messages are gone.


    Good work. Be sure to copy that (/etc/X11/xorg.conf) to somewhere safe
    now. As time goes in you'll find a few new tweaks. Update your backup
    copy as needed.

    --
    Linux Help: http://rsgibson.com/linux.htm
    Email - rsgibson@verizon.borg
    Replace borg with net


  7. Re: I Need Some Help With X-Window System

    Mike says:
    >Responding to Tom N...


    >> I'll look into it, Mike. My aversion to the mouse is probably
    >> kind of silly. But almost all of my experience with computers
    >> comes from a time when there was no such thing as mice or
    >> personal computers or X-windows. It feels really strange to me to
    >> take one of my hands off the keyboard when I am at a computer.


    >Nothing silly about this idea at all IMO. The whole point of a user
    >interface is that it should make things as streamlined as possible,
    >therefore not acting as a set of hoops the user will have to jump
    >through just to perform normal everyday tasks. If a user has to stop
    >doing what they are doing, and do something else because of how a
    >user interface is designed, then that user interface is faulty in my
    >book.


    Sorry, doofus, but mice remove hoops. Using a mouse in a windowed
    system is far, far, far faster than even the fastest typist with a
    photographic memory.

    By insisting on no mouse and using CLI as much as possible with
    modern hardware this clown is intent on installing a Yugo engine in
    a Hummer. We don't need any of this fancy electronic crap! Give us
    a carburetor and a good set of points anyday!

    You guys are hilarious. Maybe you're all Amish...

    cordially, as always,

    rm

  8. Re: I Need Some Help With X-Window System

    Mike says:

    >Nope. It was a complement, but you've doubtless already read the
    >other replies by now.


    The word is compliment, you ignoramous.

    >Well done scoring such a complement in such a short time BTW.


    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Scoring such a "complement" from The Coward Hicks is about as
    insulting as it gets. And who are _you_ to be telling this guy "how
    it is?"

    >Whatever interface does the trick for you, have fun.


    Great. But don't do it here. We don't want to be known as the
    place where people install Yugo engines in Hummers.

    cordially, as always,

    rm

  9. Re: I Need Some Help With X-Window System

    notbob says:
    >Tom N wrote:


    >> Everyone here seems great to me. Except that one fellow, who is
    >> probably posting from Ward 16 at the state mental hospital.


    >That's rm, our windoze/mouse fanatic.


    There is no "our" where you're concerned, sweetie. You're quite
    alone. And if we are a fanatic for using a mouse, then virtually
    the whole world is fanatical.

    >If it can't be done by using a mouse, its outdated, stupid and
    >evil.


    No. But if it can be done using a mouse, doing it with a keyboard
    from CLI is outdated and silly.

    >No doubt he's partial to this particular input device due to
    >his superior skill at fondling small things.


    Sorry. But we're not your brain surgeon.

    cordially, as always,

    rm

  10. Re: I Need Some Help With X-Window System

    On 2007-11-14, Ron Gibson wrote:
    > On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 03:17:44 +0100, Tom N wrote:
    >
    >> Even after I raised the DefaultDepth to 24, web pages with Firefox were
    >> still loading too slow, and I was still getting those mtrr error messages
    >> from the kernel, so I read the mtrr document in the kernel sources and
    >> decided to cut the video ram that Xorg came up with (according to
    >> /var/log/Xorg.0.log) in half, and it worked.

    >
    >> I put this in the Devices Section of my /etc/X11/xorg.conf file

    >
    >> VideoRam 4096

    >
    >> Now everything seems to be okay and the kernel error messages are gone.

    >
    > Good work. Be sure to copy that (/etc/X11/xorg.conf) to somewhere safe
    > now. As time goes in you'll find a few new tweaks. Update your backup
    > copy as needed.
    >


    Hi Ron. Thanks. I made the backup copy and am looking forward to the 'tweaks'.

    Went through /var/log/Xorg.0.log and the only WW/EE flags have to do with
    DRI and this, which is related to DRI being disabled:
    intel(0): xf86AllocateGARTMemory: allocation of 1024 pages failed
    (Cannot allocate memory).

    Aand ACPI "Open ACPI failed...." (I didn't install that package.)

    I'll be studying up on those subjects.


    Tom


  11. Re: I Need Some Help With X-Window System

    On 2007-11-14, Ron Gibson wrote:
    > On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 03:32:53 +0000, ~kurt wrote:
    >
    >> A decade ago, this newsgroup was fairly mature in terms of peoples'
    >> dispositions. Simple repetitive easily searched questions were not shot
    >> down with an elitist attitude, but suggestions to seach the web
    >> (pre-google) were not taken as an insult either. I guess it was about 6
    >> years ago someone named +Chiron+ had some anger management issues, and
    >> took a great deal of pleasure degrading and insulting people. At the same
    >> time the Slackware.com forums were being shut down, and a number of really
    >> clueless people, along with BSD trolls, came to this group. Everything
    >> combined led to what I would call the dark ages for this newsgroup. rm,
    >> the Resident Moron, is the afterbirth of this period as he is a well known
    >> troll who had his feelings hurt at some point in time (probably by
    >> +Chiron+), and has kind of become the group's herpes infection - he just
    >> hangs around like baggage. While +Chiron+ was a dick, he was also very
    >> helpful, and was often right about many things. The concept of looking
    >> for an answer before blurting out a question was emphasized by him, as was
    >> understanding what was going on under the hood. Many of the regulars at
    >> the time who were somewhat sympathetic to +Chiron+ on some level (like I
    >> said, he did bring some good things to the group) were labeled BOZOs, and
    >> such people generally embrace the philosophy behind Slackware - simple,
    >> stable, Unix-like. That is kind of the quick history, anyway, the way I
    >> remember it....

    >
    > Pretty good recap. IMO, the +C+ guy was more a presumptuous ass than
    > anything else.
    >
    > Slackware newsgroups also have another early history. Before the
    > internet was widely available something called a BBS was very popular
    > for us in the 9600 dial up modem clan. Some of them, not many early on,
    > also carried USENET but more than likely it was FIDO, another type of
    > newsgroup thing. That's where I got the idea to try Slackware. My first
    > kernel was version 0.9 :-) I can't remember what Pat was using for a
    > version number for Slackware. It (installation media) fit onto what guys,
    > about 7-8 floppies?
    >
    > I see a few people I've seen posting all the way back to then on FIDO.
    >


    That would be in the early 1990', Ron?

    Tom



  12. Re: I Need Some Help With X-Window System

    On 2007-11-14, Mike wrote:
    > Responding to Tom N...
    >> On 2007-11-13, Mike wrote:
    >>> Responding to Tom N...
    >>>
    >>> [...]
    >>>>
    >>>> I have decided not to use Gnome or KDE. After researching window managers
    >>>> on the web I've downloaded the source code for Ratpoison, which looks
    >>>> perfect for someone who runs from the command line.
    >>>>
    >>> Missed most of the rest of the thread, but have you looked at IceWM?
    >>> I found it rather well designed with regard to not needing to use a
    >>> mouse. YMMV of course.
    >>>

    >>
    >> I'll look into it, Mike. My aversion to the mouse is probably kind of
    >> silly. But almost all of my experience with computers comes from a
    >> time when there was no such thing as mice or personal computers or
    >> X-windows. It feels really strange to me to take one of my hands
    >> off the keyboard when I am at a computer.

    >
    > Nothing silly about this idea at all IMO. The whole point of a user
    > interface is that it should make things as streamlined as possible,
    > therefore not acting as a set of hoops the user will have to jump
    > through just to perform normal everyday tasks. If a user has to stop
    > doing what they are doing, and do something else because of how a
    > user interface is designed, then that user interface is faulty in my
    > book.


    I am redeemed. Thank you, Mike.

    >
    > I do sometimes use the rodent, but only really for things the rodent
    > is good for. Most tasks I use the IceWM (configurable) fastkeys to
    > do, which leave my hands free to get on with doing what they should
    > be doing without me having to play "peck here" with the "pecker
    > thingie".


    So far, I have to use it with Firefox. Be nice if the links were
    numbered so you could select them with the kb.

    >
    >> I guess that guy was trying to insult me with the "Boze" thing.
    >> Weird. I have vague memories of watching Bozo the Clown on the
    >> television when I was a very small child, and loved him.

    >
    > Nope. It was a complement, but you've doubtless already read the
    > other replies by now.


    My _feeling_, originally, was that it was a compliment. Good to
    hear it again, though.

    >
    > Well done scoring such a complement in such a short time BTW.


    Once upon a time, in the stone-age of computers, I was God.
    Otherwise known as The System Administrator.

    Now I am the system administrator of a computer and operating
    system that makes the one I was using then look like a stone axe,
    but I don't have a bunch of underlings from their workstations
    bowing and scraping in my august presence.

    I have certainly come up in the world.

    >
    > Whatever interface does the trick for you, have fun.


    Excellent. Thanks for the intelligent support.

    Tom




  13. Re: I Need Some Help With X-Window System

    On 2007-11-14, notbob wrote:
    > Tom N wrote:
    >
    >> Everyone here seems great to me. Except that one fellow, who is probably posting
    >> from Ward 16 at the state mental hospital.

    >
    > That's rm, our windoze/mouse fanatic. If it can't be done by using a
    > mouse, its outdated, stupid and evil. No doubt he's partial to this
    > particular input device due to his superior skill at fondling small things.
    >
    > nb


    Snicker.

    Learning how to type takes some serious work. Undisciplined, scatter-brained,
    self-indulgent people don't work at anything. I see a lot of that. They were
    raised by the Boob Tube...

    Tom


  14. Re: I Need Some Help With X-Window System

    On 2007-11-14, loki harfagr wrote:
    > On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 12:30:15 +0100, Tom N wrote:
    >
    >> On 2007-11-14, ~kurt wrote:
    >>> Tom N wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>> VERY interesting. Condensed history. I'll have to read that a few
    >>>> times and
    >>>
    >>> We have our share of crazies. The group Mr_full_of_himself believed
    >>> that Pat V. had to listen to his ideas or Slackware would fail (people
    >>> have been saying that for a while). He considers me the group
    >>> sociopath, and Alan the group bully. GP was also very full of himself,
    >>> not being able to understand how Slackware could survive without his
    >>> input. Then, there was Allan (sp?) Connor (one of many aliases) who
    >>> was a bit schizo. Connor had this belief that he was some super hacker
    >>> for using Slackware. It was funny because he would keep coming back
    >>> under a different name, but would essentially out himself when he went
    >>> into one of his little rants. I haven't quite figured out what Dan C
    >>> is. I know he likes guns, so he can't be all bad.

    >
    >
    > This questioning should be a good track to have a clue on the topic
    > of 'liking guns'...
    > Well, besides, I like knives ;D)
    >


    I prefer suitcase nukes. Nobody bothers ME.

    >>> But, other than
    >>> that....
    >>>
    >>> - Kurt

    >>
    >> Wow! a regular sap-opera. (Joke) I'm almost sorry I missed it.
    >>
    >> Everyone here seems great to me. Except that one fellow, who is probably
    >> posting from Ward 16 at the state mental hospital.

    >
    >
    > You may like to read the report Alice Cooper wrote
    > about this place a few years before it existed ;-)
    >
    > ---
    > Vicious Rumours
    >
    > You feel the knife stuck in your back
    > You feel it twist and you hear it crack
    > Can't make a sound for the sudden pain
    > You wish your blood were novocaine
    >
    > You see the smoke and you feel the flak
    > You're burning up and you're turning black
    > They say you fell and you hit your head
    > Your other bun is Whitenbread
    >
    > Vicious rumours, paranoic fears
    > Sonic boomers ringing in your ears
    > All of this is getting normal now
    > You'll never go back to your farming plough
    > Vicious rumours
    >
    > You're right at home back at William's flat
    > You heard a sound you turned and shot your cat
    > Your hands are shaking, everybody sees
    > And there's a rhythm drumming in your knees
    >
    > You return into a foreign night
    > Inside you know something is just not right
    > Sometimes you duck when you see your pet
    > Canary turned into a Saber jet
    >
    > Shocked consumer - you're just an average guy
    > Swelling tumor pushing on your eye
    > And now you know why all the headaches come
    > And why you're getting progressively numb
    > Vicious rumours
    >
    > I've been denied, debriefed, detuned
    > Sometimes I howl right at the moon
    > My family treats me gradually
    > They know my volatility
    >
    > Vicious rumours, paranoic fears
    > Sonic boomers ringing in your ears
    > And now I know why all the headaches come
    > And why you're getting progressively numb
    > Vicious rumours
    >
    > (Vicious rumours) [ x8 ]
    >
    > Who do you think we are [ x5 ]
    > We don't care
    > We don't care
    > ---
    >
    > quite catalyst and sightful isn't it?


    Sure is. Alice Cooper is one of the best musicians and
    composers to come out of the 60's and '70's. I love his
    take on the "Desperado/Behind Blue Eyes" theme on the "Killer"
    album. Can't remember the name of tune.

    Good poetry set to good music.

    Tom


  15. Re: I Need Some Help With X-Window System

    Tom N (tom@somewhere.com) writes:

    >> Slackware newsgroups also have another early history. Before the
    >> internet was widely available something called a BBS was very popular
    >> for us in the 9600 dial up modem clan. Some of them, not many early on,
    >> also carried USENET but more than likely it was FIDO, another type of
    >> newsgroup thing. That's where I got the idea to try Slackware. My first
    >> kernel was version 0.9 :-) I can't remember what Pat was using for a
    >> version number for Slackware. It (installation media) fit onto what guys,
    >> about 7-8 floppies?
    >>
    >> I see a few people I've seen posting all the way back to then on FIDO.
    >>

    >
    > That would be in the early 1990', Ron?
    >

    I got caught up in the history that I forgot that the key factor
    is when Slackware became available.

    In reality, the internet started becoming readily available about
    the time Linux and then Slackware made it onto the scene.

    Fido started up in 1983 or '84. Usenet in 1979. I know I first
    read about usenet in 1984. Yes, around that time the average
    BBS wouldn't carry Usenet, but there were already bigger systems
    like The Well that provided Usenet access.

    Certainly by '94 there was gatewaying of Usenet to various BBSs,
    since I started reading various newsgroups on a BBS. Since that
    was the first time I stayed (I'd been going through the rigamarole
    of dialing BBSs, getting registered and finding little of interest
    for a decade, and each time I made the effort I soon lost interest)
    so I can't say when it became common, but surely '94 was late.

    I used a 2400 baud modem up until the fall of '96, when I splurged
    on a 14.4K, but that was the year I got full internet access.

    Michael


  16. Re: I Need Some Help With X-Window System

    On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 01:31:34 +0100, Tom N wrote:

    >> newsgroup thing. That's where I got the idea to try Slackware. My
    >> first
    >> kernel was version 0.9 :-) I can't remember what Pat was using for a
    >> version number for Slackware. It (installation media) fit onto what
    >> guys, about 7-8 floppies?


    >> I see a few people I've seen posting all the way back to then on FIDO.


    > That would be in the early 1990', Ron?


    Exactly. IIRC, 1992 0r 1993.

    --
    Linux Help: http://rsgibson.com/linux.htm
    Email - rsgibson@verizon.borg
    Replace borg with net


  17. Re: I Need Some Help With X-Window System

    On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 01:52:07 +0000, Michael Black wrote:

    > I used a 2400 baud modem up until the fall of '96, when I splurged on a
    > 14.4K, but that was the year I got full internet access.


    LOL! Boy I remember getting my first ISA USR 14.4 - That kicked ass at
    the time :-)

    --
    Linux Help: http://rsgibson.com/linux.htm
    Email - rsgibson@verizon.borg
    Replace borg with net


  18. Re: I Need Some Help With X-Window System

    et472@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Michael Black) wrote:
    >Tom N (tom@somewhere.com) writes:
    >
    >>> Slackware newsgroups also have another early history. Before the
    >>> internet was widely available something called a BBS was very popular
    >>> for us in the 9600 dial up modem clan. Some of them, not many early on,
    >>> also carried USENET but more than likely it was FIDO, another type of
    >>> newsgroup thing. That's where I got the idea to try Slackware. My first
    >>> kernel was version 0.9 :-) I can't remember what Pat was using for a
    >>> version number for Slackware. It (installation media) fit onto what guys,
    >>> about 7-8 floppies?
    >>>
    >>> I see a few people I've seen posting all the way back to then on FIDO.
    >>>

    >>
    >> That would be in the early 1990', Ron?
    >>

    >I got caught up in the history that I forgot that the key factor
    >is when Slackware became available.


    Your account is pretty accurate.

    >In reality, the internet started becoming readily available about
    >the time Linux and then Slackware made it onto the scene.
    >
    >Fido started up in 1983 or '84. Usenet in 1979. I know I first
    >read about usenet in 1984. Yes, around that time the average
    >BBS wouldn't carry Usenet, but there were already bigger systems
    >like The Well that provided Usenet access.


    Note that Usenet was not carried on The Internet
    initially. However, by perhaps 1987 it had
    significantly moved to The Internet for transport, and
    by 1990 that was virtually 100%. Prior to that it was
    major companies and major universities who had access to
    Usenet, which was somewhat similar to The Internet and
    that necessarily led to the two being integrated. Which
    was of course something that FidoNet could not really
    do, mostly because it simply was not technically
    sophisticated enough at the base level.

    FidoNet never came close to the sophisticated network
    that Usenet was from its beginning. But it is an
    interesting example though! One person with a
    reasonable about of savvy and a lot of go get 'em
    attitude put up a national network of home users that
    did actually function. That was astounding!

    But Usenet was put together by a small group of the
    brightest computer networking experts in the country and
    managed to make use of massive amounts of resources from
    both large companies (AT&T for example, in the early
    80's provided, at no cost, most of the coast to coast
    transport) and Universities (all of them, provided the
    regional distribution).

    There was never any real comparison, Usenet was larger
    and just plain slicker! Indeed, the history of Usenet
    is a series of way points at which the initial
    conceptualization continued to function, but the initial
    mechanisms had to be discarded. The use of the basic
    networking features built into Unix and modem transport,
    for example, gave way to NNTP via The Internet. Also
    the 1980's topology of major transport being provided by
    large companies and regional distribution provided
    gratis by various universities changed to the current
    system that is totally commercial. Yet even today the
    underlying concepts of Usenet have not significantly
    changed from what existed 1 year after it was started!

    >Certainly by '94 there was gatewaying of Usenet to various BBSs,
    >since I started reading various newsgroups on a BBS. Since that


    The gateway between Usenet and FidoNet actually began in
    1988.

    (Of course gatewaying these various messaging pseudo
    networks was a big deal back then. The absolute biggest
    was when the Russians first got access to The Internet
    in about 1991. Computer networking, at home or at work,
    at that point actually did become truly a global
    experience.)

    >was the first time I stayed (I'd been going through the rigamarole
    >of dialing BBSs, getting registered and finding little of interest
    >for a decade, and each time I made the effort I soon lost interest)
    >so I can't say when it became common, but surely '94 was late.


    One of the potentially useful things that never caught
    on could have made that easier. In the mid-1980's, just
    as the BBS idea was becoming popular, there were also a
    few publicly accessible Unix systems around the country.
    Some of them had Internet access too, and the potential
    was fabulous. But it was more expensive than the
    average BBS by a significant amount and the typical
    operator and the typical user were both techies to an
    extreme. And in about 1990 the Secret Service and the
    FBI infiltrated a few of them, and proceeded to press
    bogus charges of copyright and theft of IP against
    several people. Some of them actually served jail time
    before it was demonstrated to be an over reaction by
    government officials without a clue.

    But that totally killed the concept of global network
    access in that manner. Virtually all of the public
    access unix systems closed down.

    >I used a 2400 baud modem up until the fall of '96, when I splurged
    >on a 14.4K, but that was the year I got full internet access.


    That pretty much coincides with Microsoft discovering
    The Internet, the beginning of AOL, and the making of
    "Internet" into a household word.

    Before that Internet, and Usenet, were places where
    people discussed what was going to happen when the other
    99.9% of the population discovered the benefits of what
    it was...


    --
    Floyd L. Davidson
    Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com

  19. Re: I Need Some Help With X-Window System

    Realto Margarino wrote:

    > But we're not your brain surgeon.


    Yes, that would require a brain and you traded yours in for a mouse and
    a gui.

    nb

  20. Re: I Need Some Help With X-Window System

    Tom N says:
    >On 2007-11-14, Mike wrote:


    >> Nothing silly about this idea at all IMO. The whole point of a
    >> user interface is that it should make things as streamlined as
    >> possible, therefore not acting as a set of hoops the user will
    >> have to jump through just to perform normal everyday tasks. If a
    >> user has to stop doing what they are doing, and do something else
    >> because of how a user interface is designed, then that user
    >> interface is faulty in my book.


    >I am redeemed. Thank you, Mike.


    And endorsement from "Mike" is hardly redemption, doofus.

    >So far, I have to use it with Firefox. Be nice if the links were
    >numbered so you could select them with the kb.


    Sure, that's what we need. More information on web-pages for the
    technically-challenged.

    But why are you using firefox while lynx is still out there? Tsk,
    tsk, man, you're letting all the other Luddites down.

    cordially, as always,

    rm

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