I Need Some Help With X-Window System - Slackware

This is a discussion on I Need Some Help With X-Window System - Slackware ; On 2007-11-13, Ron Gibson wrote: > he On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 00:37:49 +0100, Tom N wrote: > >> Still can't figure out why X can't see that device file and kernel >> module.... > >> It looks like everyone ...

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Thread: I Need Some Help With X-Window System

  1. Re: I Need Some Help With X-Window System

    On 2007-11-13, Ron Gibson wrote:
    > he On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 00:37:49 +0100, Tom N wrote:
    >
    >> Still can't figure out why X can't see that device file and kernel
    >> module....

    >
    >> It looks like everyone with an i810 chip has problems setting up X, so at
    >> least I'm not alone.

    >
    > I'd run as root...
    >
    > xorgconfig
    >
    > There will be a few easy questions asked at first. For naming if it
    > asks you if you want to accept the default name just hit enter. First
    > big question will be...
    >
    > "Now we want to set the specifications of the monitor. The two critical
    > parameters are the vertical refresh rate, which is the rate at which the
    > the whole screen is refreshed, and most importantly the horizontal sync
    > rate, which is the rate at which scanlines are displayed.
    >
    > The valid range for horizontal sync and vertical sync should be
    > documented in the manual of your monitor."
    >
    > Get that information by looking in your monitor manual or going to the
    > website and looking up that model's specs - usually they will archive a
    > manual for the monitor a very long time.
    >
    > The next big question will be...
    >
    > "Do you want to look at the card database?"
    >
    > Answer yes. You need...
    >
    > 15 ** Intel i810 (generic) [i810]
    >
    > or...
    >
    > 291 Intel 810 -
    >
    > One or the other should work.
    >
    > If all else fails these may work...
    >
    > 0 * Generic VESA compatible -
    > 1 * Generic VGA compatible -
    >
    > Don't worry as the very last question is...
    >
    > "Shall I write it to /etc/X11/xorg.conf?"
    >
    > You can bail out here by answering No (N). If it still wants to write
    > it somewhere write it as /test.conf if you are unsure if thats the right
    > settings. The file...
    >
    > /etc/X11/xorg.conf
    >
    > Is the default X settings file for the system. You can always regenerate
    > the file and you will probably need to tweak it a bit more later. Once
    > you get it all set up like you like it save a copy of the file to a safe
    > place. In fact I archive all of /etc on another partition.
    >


    Thanks, Ron. That's basically what I ended up doing, after about 12 tries
    with the various setup programs and all of the great input I received
    here and a lot of searching with google.

    Good that you've put it all in a single post.

    X seems to be running okay here now.

    I have decided not to use Gnome or KDE. After researching window managers
    on the web I've downloaded the source code for Ratpoison, which looks
    perfect for someone who runs from the command line.

    Many thanks again,


    Tom









  2. Re: I Need Some Help With X-Window System

    Tom N wrote:

    > I have decided not to use Gnome or KDE. After researching window managers
    > on the web I've downloaded the source code for Ratpoison, which looks
    > perfect for someone who runs from the command line.


    If you decide you want overlapping windows, you might want to check out
    blackbox, which already comes with Slackware (the command "xwmconfig"
    allows you to select from available window managers already on the system).

    - Kurt

  3. Re: I Need Some Help With X-Window System

    Tom N says:
    >On 2007-11-13, +Alan Hicks+ wrote:


    >> Give yourself a BOZO point.


    The term is bozo. No capitals. And it is an insult and nothing
    but.

    >Thanks very much, Alan. (I hope it is okay to leave off those
    >"+'s"). I read a lot about Unix and Linux distrbutions, and the
    >Unix ones like FreeBSD and OpenBSD seeme to be too limited and the
    >Linux ones like Mandrake and Redhat and Suse and Debian seem to be
    >catering to Windows users who don't want to learn about computers.


    Using slackware does not teach you more about computers than any
    other OS and that includes windoze.

    >Slackware is as simple and clean as a modern Operating System can
    >be, as far as I can tell.


    No, slackware is neither simple nor clean. Slackware uses an
    old-fashioned, text-based method of administration. This method of
    administration takes much longer to learn, and much longer to use.

    It is anything but simple and clean. And this is why other distros,
    including windoze, have abandoned it. The only people who like
    slackware's method of administration are either old folks who are
    used to it or idiots like The Coward Hicks.

    >I hope you don't mind if I take care of a little unfinished
    >business here, but it seems like I should follow through for the
    >record.


    Who cares what The Coward Hicks cares about? Nobody here, that's
    for sure. You won't win any awards by kissing his ass, that's for
    sure.

    >Even after I raised the DefaultDepth to 24, web pages with Firefox
    >were still loading too slow, and I was still getting those mtrr
    >error messages from the kernel, so I read the mtrr document in the
    >kernel sources and decided to cut the video ram that Xorg came up
    >with (according to /var/log/Xorg.0.log) in half, and it worked.


    Good for you.

    >I put this in the Devices Section of my /etc/X11/xorg.conf file


    >VideoRam 4096


    >Now everything seems to be okay and the kernel error messages are
    >gone.


    Great.

    >Take it easy, and thanks again,


    Don't tell The Coward to take it easy. And never, ever, thank
    hillbilly trash like The Coward Hicks. All you do is make yourself
    a laughing-stock.

    cordially, as always,

    rm

  4. Re: I Need Some Help With X-Window System

    Tom N says:

    >I have decided not to use Gnome or KDE. After researching window
    >managers on the web I've downloaded the source code for Ratpoison,
    >which looks perfect for someone who runs from the command line.


    Runs from the command line? WTF is that supposed to mean? If you
    want to run a CLI program, run it from the CLI. If you want to run
    a windowed program, run it from a windowed system.

    You never, ever, choose your application to fit your desired
    operating system, unless you're an imbecile. You always use the
    best application for the job, and you always use the OS and hardware
    that supports that application. If you do otherwise, you don't know
    what you are doing.

    And how about running "netconfig" from root (yes, from your beloved
    CLI) and changing your domain name from darkstar.example.net?

    cordially, as always,

    rm

  5. Re: I Need Some Help With X-Window System

    On 2007-11-13, ~kurt wrote:
    > Tom N wrote:
    >
    >> I have decided not to use Gnome or KDE. After researching window managers
    >> on the web I've downloaded the source code for Ratpoison, which looks
    >> perfect for someone who runs from the command line.

    >
    > If you decide you want overlapping windows, you might want to check out
    > blackbox, which already comes with Slackware (the command "xwmconfig"
    > allows you to select from available window managers already on the system).
    >


    Kurt,

    I checked out blackbox on the web. Looks really good. It's probably what I would
    use if I didn't prefer the keyboard to the mouse. Got ratpoison built and
    installed and it's really nice. Using rxvt for the xterms.

    I'm using less than a GB of hdd and have a RAM footprint of 29MB right now.

    As an aside, I built ratpoison and par (a paragraph formatter) and msmtp
    (simple sendmail) from code and notice that I have a makepkg utility.

    Do you know where I can FTP them for others to use?

    I appreciate the suggestion and the opportunity to learn about blackbox.


    Tom




  6. Re: I Need Some Help With X-Window System

    On 2007-11-12, Mutant wrote:
    > On Nov 12, 2:18 am, Tom N wrote:
    >> On 2007-11-12, Mutant wrote:
    >>
    >> > On Nov 11, 6:37 pm, Tom N wrote:
    >> >> On 2007-11-11, Thomas Overgaard wrote:

    >>
    >> HA!!!!
    >>
    >> I am posting this from an XTERM using TWM Window Manager!!
    >> The font is ridiculously small. I did like Mutant said here
    >> and found out that DRI needed a Depth of 16, then the server
    >> kept quitting because it couldn't find the default font 'fixed'.
    >> Searched with google and it turns out the misc cursor font package
    >> was missing from the CD and I downloaded it from slackware.com and
    >> installed it and I'm here!!!!!
    >>
    >> Blessings to Michael and Thomas and Olive and Mutant.
    >>
    >> I read everything that's posted here, even if a lot of it may as well be in
    >> Martian.
    >>
    >> So Mutant. What's mutated about you? Got two heads?
    >>
    >> Tom

    >
    > I got mutant powers. So ....
    >
    >


    Thanks for clearing that up.


    Tom



  7. Re: I Need Some Help With X-Window System

    Tom N says:
    >On 2007-11-13, ~kurt wrote:


    >> If you decide you want overlapping windows, you might want to
    >> check out blackbox, which already comes with Slackware (the
    >> command "xwmconfig" allows you to select from available window
    >> managers already on the system).


    >I checked out blackbox on the web. Looks really good. It's probably
    >what I would use if I didn't prefer the keyboard to the mouse.


    In other words, you've never learned how to use a mouse?

    >Got ratpoison built and installed and it's really nice. Using rxvt
    >for the xterms.


    rxvt? ratpoison? Are you nuts? Why don't you just install
    slackware 3.0 or something?

    >I'm using less than a GB of hdd and have a RAM footprint of 29MB
    >right now.


    And you are bragging about this? What on earth are you going to
    run? Are you just going to sit there, smack your lips, and watch
    the cursor blink? Is that what this is all about?

    >As an aside, I built ratpoison and par (a paragraph formatter) and
    >msmtp (simple sendmail) from code and notice that I have a makepkg
    >utility.


    >Do you know where I can FTP them for others to use?


    Why? Who would want them, who couldn't, and wouldn't, compile them
    for themselves?

    >I appreciate the suggestion and the opportunity to learn about
    >blackbox.


    If you are going to spend time learning, there are better things to
    learn than ratpoison, blackbox, and CLI.

    Please stop posting to this ng. We are trying to clean things up
    for real computer users and admins. You are an idiot and you don't
    belong here.

    cordially, as always,

    rm

  8. Re: I Need Some Help With X-Window System

    Realto Margarino wrote:

    > Who cares what The Coward Hicks cares about? *Nobody here, that's
    > for sure... *


    Do you have any evidence to back up the assertion you make in the second
    sentence above? Can you quantify the number of those reading this
    newsgroup, and separate them into those who do care what any given person
    subscribed to this newsgroup posts to it, and those who don't? As you so
    often make similar remarks concerning Alan Hicks it is self evident that
    you must be included in the former group, those who do care.
    --
    Two Ravens
    "...hit the squirrel..."

  9. Re: I Need Some Help With X-Window System

    Responding to Tom N...

    [...]
    >
    > I have decided not to use Gnome or KDE. After researching window managers
    > on the web I've downloaded the source code for Ratpoison, which looks
    > perfect for someone who runs from the command line.
    >

    Missed most of the rest of the thread, but have you looked at IceWM?
    I found it rather well designed with regard to not needing to use a
    mouse. YMMV of course.

    --
    ________________.0.________________
    The Way of the Chao-Pao! is strong.
    http://tinyurl.com/382gmp
    -----------.|.-----------

  10. Re: I Need Some Help With X-Window System

    On 2007-11-13, Realto Margarino wrote:

    > Please stop posting to this ng. We are trying to clean things up
    > for real computer users and admins. You are an idiot and you don't
    > belong here.


    Perfect advice for you to follow yourself, dimwit.

    > cordially, as always,


    Smeg off, troll.


    --
    "Ubuntu" - an African word meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".


  11. Re: I Need Some Help With X-Window System

    On 2007-11-13, Mike wrote:
    > Responding to Tom N...
    >
    > [...]
    >>
    >> I have decided not to use Gnome or KDE. After researching window managers
    >> on the web I've downloaded the source code for Ratpoison, which looks
    >> perfect for someone who runs from the command line.
    >>

    > Missed most of the rest of the thread, but have you looked at IceWM?
    > I found it rather well designed with regard to not needing to use a
    > mouse. YMMV of course.
    >


    I'll look into it, Mike. My aversion to the mouse is probably kind of
    silly. But almost all of my experience with computers comes from a
    time when there was no such thing as mice or personal computers or
    X-windows. It feels really strange to me to take one of my hands
    off the keyboard when I am at a computer.

    I guess that guy was trying to insult me with the "Boze" thing.
    Weird. I have vague memories of watching Bozo the Clown on the
    television when I was a very small child, and loved him.

    Guess I've met my first troll. I thought they were supposed to
    be scary instead of silly and pathetic.

    Tom



  12. Re: I Need Some Help With X-Window System

    Tom N wrote:
    >
    > As an aside, I built ratpoison and par (a paragraph formatter) and msmtp
    > (simple sendmail) from code and notice that I have a makepkg utility.
    >
    > Do you know where I can FTP them for others to use?
    >


    Not sure, I generally start looking for software at:



    They sometimes list ftp addresses.

    - Kurt

  13. Re: I Need Some Help With X-Window System

    Tom N wrote:
    >
    > I'll look into it, Mike. My aversion to the mouse is probably kind of
    > silly. But almost all of my experience with computers comes from a
    > time when there was no such thing as mice or personal computers or
    > X-windows. It feels really strange to me to take one of my hands
    > off the keyboard when I am at a computer.


    There are some simple window managers out there that allow you to tab
    between windows very easily -

    > I guess that guy was trying to insult me with the "Boze" thing.
    > Weird. I have vague memories of watching Bozo the Clown on the
    > television when I was a very small child, and loved him.


    If you were talking about Alan, then no, he was actually complementing
    you although I'm not a big fan of where the entire BOZO points thing
    came from.

    A decade ago, this newsgroup was fairly mature in terms of peoples'
    dispositions. Simple repetitive easily searched questions were not
    shot down with an elitist attitude, but suggestions to seach the
    web (pre-google) were not taken as an insult either. I guess it was about
    6 years ago someone named +Chiron+ had some anger management issues, and
    took a great deal of pleasure degrading and insulting people. At the same
    time the Slackware.com forums were being shut down, and a number of
    really clueless people, along with BSD trolls, came to this group. Everything
    combined led to what I would call the dark ages for this newsgroup. rm, the
    Resident Moron, is the afterbirth of this period as he is a well known
    troll who had his feelings hurt at some point in time (probably by
    +Chiron+), and has kind of become the group's herpes infection - he just
    hangs around like baggage. While +Chiron+ was a dick, he was also very
    helpful, and was often right about many things. The concept of looking
    for an answer before blurting out a question was emphasized by him, as was
    understanding what was going on under the hood. Many of the regulars at the
    time who were somewhat sympathetic to +Chiron+ on some level (like I said, he
    did bring some good things to the group) were labeled BOZOs, and such people
    generally embrace the philosophy behind Slackware - simple, stable, Unix-like.
    That is kind of the quick history, anyway, the way I remember it....

    - Kurt

  14. Re: I Need Some Help With X-Window System

    On 2007-11-14, ~kurt wrote:
    > Tom N wrote:
    >>
    >> I'll look into it, Mike. My aversion to the mouse is probably kind of
    >> silly. But almost all of my experience with computers comes from a
    >> time when there was no such thing as mice or personal computers or
    >> X-windows. It feels really strange to me to take one of my hands
    >> off the keyboard when I am at a computer.

    >
    > There are some simple window managers out there that allow you to tab
    > between windows very easily -
    >
    >> I guess that guy was trying to insult me with the "Boze" thing.
    >> Weird. I have vague memories of watching Bozo the Clown on the
    >> television when I was a very small child, and loved him.

    >
    > If you were talking about Alan, then no, he was actually complementing
    > you although I'm not a big fan of where the entire BOZO points thing
    > came from.
    >


    Kurt,

    Good! Thanks for setting me straight. He did seem to be sincere.
    Sorry to +Alan+ for letting the real troll lead me astray.


    > A decade ago, this newsgroup was fairly mature in terms of peoples'
    > dispositions. Simple repetitive easily searched questions were not
    > shot down with an elitist attitude, but suggestions to seach the
    > web (pre-google) were not taken as an insult either. I guess it was about
    > 6 years ago someone named +Chiron+ had some anger management issues, and
    > took a great deal of pleasure degrading and insulting people. At the same
    > time the Slackware.com forums were being shut down, and a number of
    > really clueless people, along with BSD trolls, came to this group. Everything
    > combined led to what I would call the dark ages for this newsgroup. rm, the
    > Resident Moron, is the afterbirth of this period as he is a well known
    > troll who had his feelings hurt at some point in time (probably by
    > +Chiron+), and has kind of become the group's herpes infection - he just
    > hangs around like baggage. While +Chiron+ was a dick, he was also very
    > helpful, and was often right about many things. The concept of looking
    > for an answer before blurting out a question was emphasized by him, as was
    > understanding what was going on under the hood. Many of the regulars at the
    > time who were somewhat sympathetic to +Chiron+ on some level (like I said, he
    > did bring some good things to the group) were labeled BOZOs, and such people
    > generally embrace the philosophy behind Slackware - simple, stable, Unix-like.
    > That is kind of the quick history, anyway, the way I remember it....
    >
    > - Kurt


    VERY interesting. Condensed history. I'll have to read that a few times and think
    about it. Once again, I apologize to +Alan+.

    Got the freshmeat link. Thanks for that, too. Will check it out right now.

    Tom



  15. Re: I Need Some Help With X-Window System

    Tom N wrote:
    >
    > VERY interesting. Condensed history. I'll have to read that a few times and


    We have our share of crazies. The group Mr_full_of_himself believed that
    Pat V. had to listen to his ideas or Slackware would fail (people have
    been saying that for a while). He considers me the group sociopath, and
    Alan the group bully. GP was also very full of himself, not being able to
    understand how Slackware could survive without his input. Then, there was
    Allan (sp?) Connor (one of many aliases) who was a bit schizo. Connor had this
    belief that he was some super hacker for using Slackware. It was funny because
    he would keep coming back under a different name, but would essentially out
    himself when he went into one of his little rants. I haven't quite figured
    out what Dan C is. I know he likes guns, so he can't be all bad. But, other
    than that....

    - Kurt

  16. Re: I Need Some Help With X-Window System

    On 2007-11-14, ~kurt wrote:
    > Tom N wrote:
    >>
    >> VERY interesting. Condensed history. I'll have to read that a few times and

    >
    > We have our share of crazies. The group Mr_full_of_himself believed that
    > Pat V. had to listen to his ideas or Slackware would fail (people have
    > been saying that for a while). He considers me the group sociopath, and
    > Alan the group bully. GP was also very full of himself, not being able to
    > understand how Slackware could survive without his input. Then, there was
    > Allan (sp?) Connor (one of many aliases) who was a bit schizo. Connor had this
    > belief that he was some super hacker for using Slackware. It was funny because
    > he would keep coming back under a different name, but would essentially out
    > himself when he went into one of his little rants. I haven't quite figured
    > out what Dan C is. I know he likes guns, so he can't be all bad. But, other
    > than that....
    >
    > - Kurt


    Wow! a regular sap-opera. (Joke) I'm almost sorry I missed it.

    Everyone here seems great to me. Except that one fellow, who is probably posting
    from Ward 16 at the state mental hospital.


    Tom



  17. Re: I Need Some Help With X-Window System

    ~kurt says:
    >Tom N wrote:
    >>
    >> As an aside, I built ratpoison and par (a paragraph formatter) and msmtp
    >> (simple sendmail) from code and notice that I have a makepkg utility.
    >>
    >> Do you know where I can FTP them for others to use?
    >>


    >Not sure, I generally start looking for software at:


    >


    And do you look for paragraph reformatters at freshmeat? We usually
    look for paragraph reformatters in our text editor...

    Of course this clown probably uses ex or even ed. He gives us all a
    bad name. Killfile him. Slackware needs to get away from the image
    of one having one's head jammed way, way, up one's ass, an image
    that this guy promotes by his very existence.

    >They sometimes list ftp addresses.


    Of paragraph reformatter packages?

    Hilarious.

    cordially, as always,

    rm

  18. Re: I Need Some Help With X-Window System

    ~kurt says:
    >Tom N wrote:


    >> I'll look into it, Mike. My aversion to the mouse is probably
    >> kind of silly. But almost all of my experience with computers
    >> comes from a time when there was no such thing as mice or
    >> personal computers or X-windows. It feels really strange to me to
    >> take one of my hands off the keyboard when I am at a computer.


    Yep, durn it. That's why we still use horses instead of those
    new-fangled horseless carriage things...if gawd had wanted horseless
    carriages, he wouldn't have given us horses!

    >There are some simple window managers out there that allow you to
    >tab between windows very easily -


    >> I guess that guy was trying to insult me with the "Boze" thing.
    >> Weird. I have vague memories of watching Bozo the Clown on the
    >> television when I was a very small child, and loved him.


    >If you were talking about Alan, then no, he was actually
    >complementing you although I'm not a big fan of where the entire
    >BOZO points thing came from.


    The word is compliment, although The Coward Hicks and this clown do
    complement each other, as well.

    >A decade ago, this newsgroup was fairly mature in terms of peoples'
    >dispositions. Simple repetitive easily searched questions were not
    >shot down with an elitist attitude, but suggestions to seach the
    >web (pre-google) were not taken as an insult either. I guess it
    >was about 6 years ago someone named +Chiron+ had some anger
    >management issues, and took a great deal of pleasure degrading and
    >insulting people. At the same time the Slackware.com forums were
    >being shut down, and a number of really clueless people, along with
    >BSD trolls, came to this group. Everything combined led to what I
    >would call the dark ages for this newsgroup. rm, the Resident
    >Moron, is the afterbirth of this period as he is a well known troll
    >who had his feelings hurt at some point in time (probably by
    >+Chiron+), and has kind of become the group's herpes infection - he


    We had our feelings hurt? By -cibahole-, no less? We were using
    unix, and then slackware (and even SLS) long before you were old
    enough dress yourself.

    >just hangs around like baggage. While +Chiron+ was a dick, he was
    >also very helpful, and was often right about many things.


    We chased him out of here. He had to go and most of the trash went
    with him. The clown you are talking to is a throwback to that time
    in that he is building a system to do absolutely no work. At least
    it better not be doing any work, because the work his system will do
    will be primitive and shoddy at best. A paragraph reformatting
    program? Wow. Why are you humoring this moron?

    >The concept of looking for an answer before blurting out a question
    >was emphasized by him, as was understanding what was going on under
    >the hood. Many of the regulars at the time who were somewhat
    >sympathetic to +Chiron+ on some level (like I said, he did bring
    >some good things to the group) were labeled BOZOs, and such people
    >generally embrace the philosophy behind Slackware - simple, stable,
    >Unix-like. That is kind of the quick history, anyway, the way I
    >remember it....


    Simple, stable, unix-like, is the philosophy behind linux, not
    slackware. Slackware is pretty much identical to any other system,
    with the big difference being installation. Slackware still uses
    1980 technology in its installation routines and this is not
    something to crow about.

    cordially, as always,

    rm

  19. Re: I Need Some Help With X-Window System

    Tom N says:

    >Good! Thanks for setting me straight. He did seem to be sincere.
    >Sorry to +Alan+ for letting the real troll lead me astray.


    The + signs beside The Coward's name are supposed to light it up in
    some newsreaders. He copied this from -Cibahole- who was chased out
    of here.

    That should let you know who the real troll is. The fact that we
    have pointed out that you are a moron does not mean that we are a
    troll. If it was true that you were not a moron, you might have an
    argument, but since you are truly too stupid for words, we are
    right, you are wrong, and your continued participation in this ng
    can only be described as trolling.

    _Nobody_ wants a paragraph reformatter, you stupid ****. Nobody!

    >VERY interesting. Condensed history. I'll have to read that a few
    >times and think about it. Once again, I apologize to +Alan+.


    Anything written by Kurt is not interesting, by definition. And his
    history is certainly lacking. We are hardly an afterbirth of the
    -Cibahole- era. We were the one who drove him off, and made the
    group much better for it.

    If you want to study history, take a look in the past when
    Volkerding was seriously ill, and The Coward Hicks tried to seize
    official status, whereby he would try to take over the distro if
    Volkerding croaked. It's all there, he was exposed, and he was
    humiliated and that is one of the reasons he seldom posts here
    anymore.

    >Got the freshmeat link. Thanks for that, too. Will check it out
    >right now.


    Yep, you post that paragraph reformatter package. Everyone will be
    real glad to see that. We have all been running around with
    unreformatted paragraphs for years now. What a relief that you have
    arrived!

    If you ever get brave enough to startx make sure that you have it
    setup for 16 colours in vga mode! Ask The Coward Hicks how it is
    done. Or you might ask the Bash Programmer, aka, Faux_Pseudo. He
    eschews X altogether!

    cordially, as always,

    rm

  20. Re: I Need Some Help With X-Window System

    Responding to Tom N...
    > On 2007-11-13, Mike wrote:
    >> Responding to Tom N...
    >>
    >> [...]
    >>>
    >>> I have decided not to use Gnome or KDE. After researching window managers
    >>> on the web I've downloaded the source code for Ratpoison, which looks
    >>> perfect for someone who runs from the command line.
    >>>

    >> Missed most of the rest of the thread, but have you looked at IceWM?
    >> I found it rather well designed with regard to not needing to use a
    >> mouse. YMMV of course.
    >>

    >
    > I'll look into it, Mike. My aversion to the mouse is probably kind of
    > silly. But almost all of my experience with computers comes from a
    > time when there was no such thing as mice or personal computers or
    > X-windows. It feels really strange to me to take one of my hands
    > off the keyboard when I am at a computer.


    Nothing silly about this idea at all IMO. The whole point of a user
    interface is that it should make things as streamlined as possible,
    therefore not acting as a set of hoops the user will have to jump
    through just to perform normal everyday tasks. If a user has to stop
    doing what they are doing, and do something else because of how a
    user interface is designed, then that user interface is faulty in my
    book.

    I do sometimes use the rodent, but only really for things the rodent
    is good for. Most tasks I use the IceWM (configurable) fastkeys to
    do, which leave my hands free to get on with doing what they should
    be doing without me having to play "peck here" with the "pecker
    thingie".

    > I guess that guy was trying to insult me with the "Boze" thing.
    > Weird. I have vague memories of watching Bozo the Clown on the
    > television when I was a very small child, and loved him.


    Nope. It was a complement, but you've doubtless already read the
    other replies by now.

    Well done scoring such a complement in such a short time BTW.

    Whatever interface does the trick for you, have fun.

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