Slack derivative? - Slackware

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Thread: Slack derivative?

  1. Slack derivative?

    Hi all! I'm looking to replace all the XP operating systems on 5 computers
    (family and friends). This XP Genuine Advantage (phone home spyware) is the
    last straw for me. They (M$) are moving to "renting" you the operating
    system, and there are 2 pending class action lawsuits over this and other
    issues. I'm tired of dealing with all this crap!

    I'm looking to learning Slackware, but alas, my friends and family cannot.
    Therefore, I'm wondering if there is a Slack spinoff worth using and which
    one?

    All computers will just be doing the basic stuff: surfing, e-mail, burning,
    office stuff, etc.
    It would be good if I could set up the remote boxes and not have to tinker
    with them after set-up.

    Would a newbie derivative be suitable for this, or a full blown Slackware
    install?

    Any help appreciated.
    Thanks!



  2. Re: Slack derivative?

    mikey coons wrote:
    > Hi all! I'm looking to replace all the XP operating systems on 5 computers
    > (family and friends).


    >
    > Would a newbie derivative be suitable for this, or a full blown Slackware
    > install?
    >


    My humble opinion: if this is your first exposure to Linux ever, I'd
    start from
    a live-cd. I have started with Knoppix, but if you want to get a
    Slackware
    flavour then go for Slax: .

    You can learn a lot from a live image. You can even install it.
    It's not a proper install, it will just copy itself to the hard drive,
    without messing
    with existing partitions, and you can also create a 'stealth'
    partition.

    Ottavio
    http://www.pledgebank.com/boycottvista


  3. Re: Slack derivative?

    On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 09:57:35 -0700, mikey coons wrote:

    > Hi all! I'm looking to replace all the XP operating systems on 5 computers
    > (family and friends). This XP Genuine Advantage (phone home spyware) is the
    > last straw for me. They (M$) are moving to "renting" you the operating
    > system, and there are 2 pending class action lawsuits over this and other
    > issues. I'm tired of dealing with all this crap!
    >
    > I'm looking to learning Slackware, but alas, my friends and family cannot.
    > Therefore, I'm wondering if there is a Slack spinoff worth using and which
    > one?
    >
    > All computers will just be doing the basic stuff: surfing, e-mail, burning,
    > office stuff, etc.
    > It would be good if I could set up the remote boxes and not have to tinker
    > with them after set-up.
    >
    > Would a newbie derivative be suitable for this, or a full blown Slackware
    > install?
    >
    > Any help appreciated.
    > Thanks!


    I can understand why you'd be attracted to slack, but in all honesty, the
    average home user, non-geek, is probably going to be much happier with
    something like ubuntu which is a bit easier to keep going and get
    information.


  4. Re: Slack derivative?

    On 2007-08-13, mikey coons wrote:
    >
    > I'm looking to learning Slackware, but alas, my friends and family cannot.
    > Therefore, I'm wondering if there is a Slack spinoff worth using and which
    > one?
    >
    > All computers will just be doing the basic stuff: surfing, e-mail, burning,
    > office stuff, etc.
    > It would be good if I could set up the remote boxes and not have to tinker
    > with them after set-up.
    >
    > Would a newbie derivative be suitable for this, or a full blown Slackware
    > install?


    A full Slackware install comes with KDE and Koffice, and OpenOffice is
    easy to install, too. Keep in mind that if you're the admin, your
    family doesn't have to know what they're doing--if they have a problem,
    they tell you, and you get to fix it. ;-) I would definitely suggest a
    gradual introduction for them--first, set up a box for yourself and use
    it regularly; when you're confident that you can answer most of your
    users' questions easily, set up another box for them, but keep a Windows
    box available (as a dual-boot, or as a separate machine) in case they
    get frustrated. Eventually you should be able to replace your Windows
    installs with Slackware if that's your goal, but you don't even need to
    go whole-hog if your family really needs Windows for one or two apps
    that simply don't run on linux (some games, for example).

    Another person suggested Ubuntu, which is Debian based. Ubuntu is
    definitely okay as well, and would be a good suggestion for someone not
    really looking to learn anything about linux, someone just wanting to
    escape Windows. But Slackware is certainly a viable alternative
    (especially if you don't want to have to fight your package manager every
    so often) if you'd rather go that route. And if you're the admin, your
    users won't care about the difference, anyway.

    --keith

    --
    kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
    (try just my userid to email me)
    AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
    see X- headers for PGP signature information


  5. Re: Slack derivative?

    On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 11:22:25 -0700, Keith Keller wrote:

    > On 2007-08-13, mikey coons wrote:
    >>
    >> I'm looking to learning Slackware, but alas, my friends and family cannot.
    >> Therefore, I'm wondering if there is a Slack spinoff worth using and which
    >> one?
    >>
    >> All computers will just be doing the basic stuff: surfing, e-mail, burning,
    >> office stuff, etc.
    >> It would be good if I could set up the remote boxes and not have to tinker
    >> with them after set-up.
    >>
    >> Would a newbie derivative be suitable for this, or a full blown Slackware
    >> install?

    >
    > A full Slackware install comes with KDE and Koffice, and OpenOffice is
    > easy to install, too. Keep in mind that if you're the admin, your
    > family doesn't have to know what they're doing--if they have a problem,
    > they tell you, and you get to fix it. ;-) I would definitely suggest a
    > gradual introduction for them--first, set up a box for yourself and use
    > it regularly; when you're confident that you can answer most of your
    > users' questions easily, set up another box for them, but keep a Windows
    > box available (as a dual-boot, or as a separate machine) in case they
    > get frustrated. Eventually you should be able to replace your Windows
    > installs with Slackware if that's your goal, but you don't even need to
    > go whole-hog if your family really needs Windows for one or two apps
    > that simply don't run on linux (some games, for example).
    >
    > Another person suggested Ubuntu, which is Debian based. Ubuntu is
    > definitely okay as well, and would be a good suggestion for someone not
    > really looking to learn anything about linux, someone just wanting to
    > escape Windows. But Slackware is certainly a viable alternative
    > (especially if you don't want to have to fight your package manager every
    > so often) if you'd rather go that route. And if you're the admin, your
    > users won't care about the difference, anyway.


    Agreed. I had noticed that he mentioned 'family and friends'. If some of
    the friends are more casual and not ones you visit on a daily basis, it
    might be easier for them to handle ubuntu.


    >
    > --keith



  6. Re: Slack derivative?

    mikey coons wrote:

    > ... This XP Genuine Advantage ... is the last straw for me. ... I'm
    > tired of dealing with all this crap!


    What took you so long???

    > I'm looking to learning Slackware, but alas, my friends and family cannot.


    If you're in a position to manage their systems for them, they need not.
    Set them up with KDE (or other suitable GUI environments of KDE is not
    appreciated among your friends and family; I suspect that they'll find
    it looks rather familiar to Windows, though, and will gladly give it a
    chance), and they should have no trouble adapting to the new system.

    > Therefore, I'm wondering if there is a Slack spinoff worth using and
    > which one?


    Why a spinoff? Why not just go with Slackware itself?

    > It would be good if I could set up the remote boxes and not have to
    > tinker with them after set-up.


    Agreed, though you'll likely need to tinker periodically, if only to
    ensure that updated packages get installed as necessary. If you can set
    yourself up to be able to tinker remotely (ssh into the remote systems
    and perform all system-administration -- that is "tinkering" -- from the
    comfort of your own system), you'll find it's not too much trouble.

    > Would a newbie derivative be suitable for this, or a full blown
    > Slackware install?


    I don't know of any "newbie derivative"s, but even if I did, I would
    recommend using Slackware itself. Why go for a derivative when you can
    have the real thing?

    --
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Sylvain Robitaille syl@alcor.concordia.ca

    Systems and Network analyst Concordia University
    Instructional & Information Technology Montreal, Quebec, Canada
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

  7. Re: Slack derivative?

    ray wrote:

    > I can understand why you'd be attracted to slack, but in all honesty, the
    > average home user, non-geek, is probably going to be much happier with
    > something like ubuntu which is a bit easier to keep going and get
    > information.


    In what way, on either point, easier?
    --
    Two Ravens
    "...hit the squirrel..."

  8. Re: Slack derivative?


    "Sylvain Robitaille" wrote in message
    news:slrnfc1a4o.584o.syl@alcor.concordia.ca...
    > I don't know of any "newbie derivative"s, but even if I did, I would
    > recommend using Slackware itself. Why go for a derivative when you can
    > have the real thing?
    >


    Agreed. I've got 2 spare boxes to use and can play with it till I'm
    comfortable. I understand I need only the first 2 CD's of the distro?
    And I've had some experience with Linux in general and Slack in particular a
    few years ago.

    Thanks for the replies!

    > --
    > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    > Sylvain Robitaille syl@alcor.concordia.ca
    >
    > Systems and Network analyst Concordia University
    > Instructional & Information Technology Montreal, Quebec, Canada
    > ----------------------------------------------------------------------




  9. Re: Slack derivative?

    On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 20:17:35 +0100, Two Ravens wrote:

    > ray wrote:
    >
    >> I can understand why you'd be attracted to slack, but in all honesty, the
    >> average home user, non-geek, is probably going to be much happier with
    >> something like ubuntu which is a bit easier to keep going and get
    >> information.

    >
    > In what way, on either point, easier?


    Less bothersome - easier to find help - more available software - software
    about as simple as possible to install and usually sets itself up working
    properly. Other than that, I can't think of a thing.


  10. Re: Slack derivative?

    On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 09:57:35 -0700
    "mikey coons" wrote:


    > Would a newbie derivative be suitable for this, or a full blown
    > Slackware install?
    >
    > Any help appreciated.
    > Thanks!
    >
    >


    Possibly worth looking at dreamlinux ( http://www.dreamlinux.com.br/ ),
    zenwalk ( http://www.zenwalk.org/ ) and wolvix
    ( http://www.wolvix.org/ )

    I use slackware on desktop / server, zenwalk on laptop and wolvix is
    installed on encrypted USB stick.

    Might be worth a look at least.

  11. Re: Slack derivative?


    "nordle" wrote in message
    news:20070813230252.729049e3@conroe.axiahome...
    > I use slackware on desktop / server, zenwalk on laptop and wolvix is
    > installed on encrypted USB stick.
    >
    > Might be worth a look at least.


    Very nice. Thanks for the tip! I didn't know about the DreamLinux at all.



  12. Re: Slack derivative?

    ray wrote:

    >>> ... ubuntu which is a bit easier to keep going and get information.

    >>
    >> In what way, on either point, easier?

    >
    > Less bothersome ...


    That, of course, does not answer the question. In what way, on either
    point, "less bothersome" then?

    > easier to find help ...


    Perhaps, but not necessarily so. The help on this newsgroup can be
    rather "medicinal" at times, but it's generally quite good. I
    understand that there are also some web-based "forums" that provide
    information and help for Slackware users.

    > more available software ...


    On this point, I have to completely disagree. What software is
    available for Ubuntu, but not for Slackware?

    > software about as simple as possible to install and usually sets
    > itself up working properly.


    "tar ...; configure; make; make install" is not as simple as possible?

    --
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Sylvain Robitaille syl@alcor.concordia.ca

    Systems and Network analyst Concordia University
    Instructional & Information Technology Montreal, Quebec, Canada
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

  13. Re: Slack derivative?

    ["Followup-To:" header set to alt.os.linux.slackware.]

    On 2007-08-13, ray wrote:
    > On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 20:17:35 +0100, Two Ravens wrote:
    >
    >> ray wrote:
    >>
    >>> I can understand why you'd be attracted to slack, but in all honesty, the
    >>> average home user, non-geek, is probably going to be much happier with
    >>> something like ubuntu which is a bit easier to keep going and get
    >>> information.

    >>
    >> In what way, on either point, easier?

    >
    > Less bothersome


    In what way? Ubuntu's package tools bother me to no end. Slackware's
    never do.

    > - easier to find help


    In what way? The man pages are more or less the same, and the
    documentation on each software's web site is actually more consistent in
    Slackware, since other distros, Debian included, modify standard file
    locations, especially for config files in /etc.

    > - more available software


    In what way? There is more software bundled for Ubuntu, but there's no
    reason one couldn't compile the software oneself. Ubuntu lends itself
    to software bloat in order to make more software available; how much of
    that do you actually use?

    > - software about as simple as possible to install and usually sets itself up working
    > properly.


    When apt-get works, software installation is usually pretty simple.
    When it doesn't work, run for the hills.

    > Other than that, I can't think of a thing.


    Well, so obviously our opinions differ greatly. If I were installing a
    standard desktop distro for me and my family, I'd choose Slackware over
    Ubuntu any day. Even in my work, I choose CentOS over Ubuntu, because
    I've had rpm go belly-up on me less frequently than apt.

    --keith

    --
    kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
    (try just my userid to email me)
    AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
    see X- headers for PGP signature information


  14. Re: Slack derivative?

    Keith Keller says:
    >On 2007-08-13, mikey coons wrote:


    >> It would be good if I could set up the remote boxes and not have
    >> to tinker with them after set-up.


    You've missed the point of slackware. It's a hobbyist distro and as
    such, there is always something broken that has to be ****ed with.

    >A full Slackware install comes with KDE and Koffice, and OpenOffice is
    >easy to install, too. Keep in mind that if you're the admin, your
    >family doesn't have to know what they're doing--if they have a problem,
    >they tell you, and you get to fix it. ;-) I would definitely suggest a
    >gradual introduction for them--first, set up a box for yourself and use
    >it regularly; when you're confident that you can answer most of your
    >users' questions easily, set up another box for them, but keep a Windows
    >box available (as a dual-boot, or as a separate machine) in case they
    >get frustrated.


    Keep the windows box around so that those who don't like being
    force-fed linux by an asshole like you will have a box available to
    use.

    >Eventually you should be able to replace your Windows installs with
    >Slackware if that's your goal, but you don't even need to go
    >whole-hog if your family really needs Windows for one or two apps
    >that simply don't run on linux (some games, for example).


    There is no point in a casual user having to learn _two_ operating
    systems just so that you can get all anal and pretend that you rule
    the universe. Use the one OS that does everything, and if you can
    get away with a linux distro, great, because it's a lot cheaper than
    windoze.

    Oh, BTW: Keith Weller is a troll, and hs is best avoided
    althogether.

    cordially, as always,

    rm

  15. Re: Slack derivative?

    mikey coons says:
    >"Sylvain Robitaille" wrote in message


    >> I don't know of any "newbie derivative"s, but even if I did, I
    >> would recommend using Slackware itself. Why go for a derivative
    >> when you can have the real thing?


    >Agreed. I've got 2 spare boxes to use and can play with it till I'm
    >comfortable. I understand I need only the first 2 CD's of the
    >distro?


    Yep. That's one CD for each box.

    >And I've had some experience with Linux in general and Slack in
    >particular a few years ago.


    Yep. Keep in mind, though, that Sylvain Robitaille is a French
    Canadian.

    cordially, as always,

    rm

  16. Re: Slack derivative?

    In alt.os.linux.slackware ray says:
    >On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 20:17:35 +0100, Two Ravens wrote:
    >> ray wrote:


    >>> I can understand why you'd be attracted to slack, but in all
    >>> honesty, the average home user, non-geek, is probably going to
    >>> be much happier with something like ubuntu which is a bit easier
    >>> to keep going and get information.


    >> In what way, on either point, easier?


    >Less bothersome - easier to find help - more available software -
    >software about as simple as possible to install and usually sets
    >itself up working properly. Other than that, I can't think of a
    >thing.


    Just stick with windoze. We won't tell anyone.

    cordially, as always,

    rm

  17. Re: Slack derivative?


    "Realto Margarino" wrote in message
    news:i77wi.522773$%85.45531@fe05.news.easynews.com ...
    > In alt.os.linux.slackware ray says:
    > Just stick with windoze. We won't tell anyone.
    >
    > cordially, as always,
    >


    My first plonk.............what a day




  18. Re: Slack derivative?


    "Realto Margarino" wrote in message
    news:i77wi.522773$%85.45531@fe05.news.easynews.com ...
    > In alt.os.linux.slackware ray says:
    > Just stick with windoze. We won't tell anyone.
    >
    > cordially, as always,
    >


    My first plonk.............what a day



  19. Re: Slack derivative?


    mikey coons wrote:

    > Hi all! I'm looking to replace all the XP operating systems on 5 computers
    > (family and friends). This XP Genuine Advantage (phone home spyware) is the
    > last straw for me. They (M$) are moving to "renting" you the operating
    > system, and there are 2 pending class action lawsuits over this and other
    > issues. I'm tired of dealing with all this crap!


    New to Slackware myself, after having a look years back. It is
    superb these days.

    > I'm looking to learning Slackware, but alas, my friends and family cannot.
    > Therefore, I'm wondering if there is a Slack spinoff worth using and which
    > one?


    Doesn't seem to need one. Do a full install, stick /home on a
    third partition (if you know what that means, otherwise ignore without
    issue), run what it tells you to run (read the messages on install, it
    won't tell you twice, write stuff down if you're new), and you're
    done.

    Plan your migrations of mailboxes and such, thunderbird was easy
    (instructions on website) but outlook will need converted at some
    point I'd imagine.

    Set the computers to boot into KDE, when they logout it'll power
    down. It's all point and click between on and off.

    > All computers will just be doing the basic stuff: surfing, e-mail, burning,
    > office stuff, etc.


    KDE is fine. Less effort to get right than any Windows box, IMO.

    If anything, it comes with too many apps to choose from, and many
    more available to download, but most defaults work fine so who cares?
    12.0 comes with a somewhat buggy default media player, use Kaboodle
    (automatically installed, set as default with a couple of clicks) as a
    workaround.
    Hell, I could never go back now, too many of these apps don't
    exist for Windows.

    > It would be good if I could set up the remote boxes and not have to tinker
    > with them after set-up.


    World peace would be good too. I'd reckon you'll tinker a lot less
    than with a windows box in the control of a normal user, if that's any
    encouragement.

    > Would a newbie derivative be suitable for this, or a full blown Slackware
    > install?


    Slackware. Nothing wrong with a newbie distro, but they make life
    harder in the long run. If you can find your way here, you can handle
    Slackware. It's a hell of a lot easier than it used to be.

    --
    tussock


  20. Re: Slack derivative?

    On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 22:33:38 -0700, mikey coons wrote:

    > My first plonk.............what a day


    And this must be your first plonk, for the second time...

    Can I be your second plonk?

    Bugger off out of here, win-droid doofus.


    --
    "Bother!" said Pooh, as Christopher Robin pleaded to be spanked again.


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