Guy Macon on using terms such as "Professional Engineer" - Slackware

This is a discussion on Guy Macon on using terms such as "Professional Engineer" - Slackware ; In article , rm@baseballproctologist.com says... > In alt.os.linux.slackware krw trolled: > >rm@baseballproctologist.com says... > > >> No, reading people their "rights" has absolutely nothing to do > >> with parsing statements for their logical meaning. > > >You're humor challenged ...

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Thread: Guy Macon on using terms such as "Professional Engineer"

  1. Re: Guy Macon misusing the term "Professional Engineer"

    In article ,
    rm@baseballproctologist.com says...
    > In alt.os.linux.slackware krw trolled:
    > >rm@baseballproctologist.com says...

    >
    > >> No, reading people their "rights" has absolutely nothing to do
    > >> with parsing statements for their logical meaning.

    >
    > >You're humor challenged too? > >guessed>

    >
    > Apparently you're the one who is "humour challenged", since what you
    > said couldn't be considered remotely funny by a reasonable person.
    >
    > And you are an English Major! Good for you.


    ....too funny to be an engineer.

    > cordially, as always,
    >

    BS, as always.

    --
    Keith

  2. Re: Guy Macon misusing the term "Professional Engineer"

    In article <5g0ih2F3dnhrbU1@mid.individual.net>, two-
    ravens@operamail.com says...
    > krw wrote:
    >
    > > Of course not. *Perhaps you're in the wrong newsgroup. *This isn't
    > > alt.english.composition.

    >
    > Is there an alt.english.composition newsgroup? My news server doesn't seem
    > to carry it. I can find alt.english and alt.english.usage.


    Look harder.

    --
    Keith

  3. Re: Guy Macon misusing the term "Professional Engineer"

    krw wrote:

    > Look harder.


    If i type alt.english.composition into the 'Subscribe to Newsgroups -
    Knode' panel it comes up blank, typing in alt.english gives me alt.english
    and alt.english.usage, I asked a question having looked it obviously is
    not carried on the news server I subscribe to, is it on yours?
    --
    Two Ravens
    "...hit the squirrel..."

  4. Guy Macon on using terms such as "Professional Engineer"




    Two Ravens wrote:

    >krw wrote:
    >
    >> Look harder.

    >
    >If i type alt.english.composition into the 'Subscribe to Newsgroups -
    >Knode' panel it comes up blank, typing in alt.english gives me alt.english
    >and alt.english.usage, I asked a question having looked it obviously is
    >not carried on the news server I subscribe to, is it on yours?


    Doesn't exist on Giganews...

    (I wonder if the squirrel ever hits back?)



  5. Re: Guy Macon on using terms such as "Professional Engineer"

    Guy Macon wrote:

    > (I wonder if the squirrel ever hits back?)


    On the TV show to which it is a reference, the 'squirrel', a member of a
    band at a dance, in a rather badly made squirrel costume, is hitting
    the 'Father' figure of the comedy who then shouts, "...hit the
    squirrel..." as some of the rest of his family are, in the general melee,
    striking him. As a 'sig block' it fits any number of scenario's.
    --
    Two Ravens
    "...hit the squirrel..."

  6. Re: Guy Macon on using terms such as "Professional Engineer"




    Two Ravens wrote:

    >It looked to me that it must be TWO Engineers, one who has a degree, and
    >another who has a license, but not a degree. I think the demonstration was
    >that one 'could' be an Engineer, as he had a license to practise as an
    >Engineer, and the other 'was' an Engineer as he was qualified to be an
    >engineer. It can't be the same individual as he would have either the
    >degree, OR, the license, or both, but surely not be an engineer without
    >either, perhaps an Engineer who has either a degree or a license from
    >California could enlighten us.


    Why would you think that having a engineering degree or an
    engineering license would qualify someone to expound upon
    a legal question?

    Why would you think that one could "surely not be an engineer
    without either" [license or degree]?

    In California an Engineer may have a license and have a degree.

    In California an Engineer may have a license and have no degree.

    In California an Engineer may have no license and have a degree.

    In California an Engineer may have no license and have no degree.

    ( Hint: 11 10 01 00 )

    There is no licensing requirement for being an Engineer in California.

    There is no educational requirement for being an Engineer in California.

    There are titles that are restricted, but "Engineer" is not
    one of them. For example:

    The title "PE" requires a license.

    The Title "PhD" requires a degree.

    An autodidact with no license or certification may call herself
    an engineer, work as an engineer, and advertise herself as an
    engineer. She can design consumer products, aircraft (military
    and commercial), industrial equipment, medical devices, etc.
    Safety comes from insuring that the product is designed to
    comply with appropriate standards, not by attempting to control
    who is and isn't allowed to design things.

    --
    Guy Macon



  7. Re: Guy Macon on using terms such as "Professional Engineer"

    Guy Macon wrote:

    > There is no licensing requirement for being an Engineer in California.
    >
    > There is no educational requirement for being an Engineer in California.
    >
    > There are titles that are restricted, but "Engineer" is not
    > one of them. *For example:
    >
    > The title "PE" requires a license.


    Is this passage from here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineer that to
    which you refer above, regarding the title "PE" requiring a license?

    "Laws exist in all U.S. states and in Canada which limit the use of several
    engineer titles, particularly the title of "Professional Engineer," and
    often also titles indicating a specific, regulated branch of engineering,
    such as "civil engineer" or "mechanical engineer." Most U.S. states do not
    restrict unlicensed persons from calling themselves an "engineer" or
    indicating branches or specialties not covered by the licensing acts...
    --
    Two Ravens
    "...hit the squirrel..."

  8. Re: Guy Macon on using terms such as "Professional Engineer"

    In alt.os.linux.slackware Two Ravens trolled:

    >I see your point, Medical Practitioners, are known as, or addressed as,
    >Doctor or Doctors, (as a group), but it is purely a courtesy title, as
    >with some dentists. They have no PhD but still use the title 'Doctor',
    >having undertaken extensive periods of study.


    Actually, the initials MD refer to the latin "Medicinae Doctor", and
    so an MD is quite properly addressed as a "Doctor." And, we too are
    qualified to be addressed as "Doctor", since we have a "JD", which
    is "Juris Doctor." However, holders of this degree typically eschew
    the Dr. title.

    cordially, as always,

    rm

  9. Re: Guy Macon on using terms such as "Professional Engineer"


    Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8Bit


    Two Ravens wrote:
    >
    >Guy Macon wrote:
    >
    >> There is no licensing requirement for being an Engineer in California.
    >>
    >> There is no educational requirement for being an Engineer in California.
    >>
    >> There are titles that are restricted, but "Engineer" is not
    >> one of them. *For example:
    >>
    >> The title "PE" requires a license.

    >
    >Is this passage from here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineer that to
    >which you refer above, regarding the title "PE" requiring a license?
    >
    >"Laws exist in all U.S. states and in Canada which limit the use of several
    >engineer titles, particularly the title of "Professional Engineer," and
    >often also titles indicating a specific, regulated branch of engineering,
    >such as "civil engineer" or "mechanical engineer." Most U.S. states do not
    >restrict unlicensed persons from calling themselves an "engineer" or
    >indicating branches or specialties not covered by the licensing acts...


    That, and decades of experience working as an engineer and with
    engineers, mostly in California but also in several other US
    states, Canada, Mexico, China, and Japan.

    The bottom line is this:

    Roger Maynard (the resident alt.os.linux.slackware troll)
    has, in the last week:

    [1] Accused me of breaking an imaginary California law prohibiting
    the use of the title "Engineer" by non-degreed engineers.

    [2] Edited my words in replies so as to make it look like I wrote
    that DOS is suitable for all kinds of multitasking, when my
    original siad the I think it suitable only for simple round-
    robin single loop multitasking.

    [3] Generated fake posts from employers that do not exist claiming
    that they fired me for starting fires and other crimes.

    [4] Started using my name in post titles with the stated goal of
    making it so employers searching Google for my name would
    find the posts, believe the lies, and not hire me.

    [5] When I responded to [5] by generating posts such as this
    one that use my name in the subject line to push the others
    down in the search results, he started acting as if my using
    my name in subject lines is the reason he is doing all of this.

    ....and this is just what I saw in replies to his posts or in Google
    searches. I don't read what he writes, so I may be unaware of
    other, ineffective attacks.

    I suggest killfiling him a I have done, and I suggest that those
    who reply not do so under subject lines that are slander, or that
    they set "X-No-Archive: yes".

    --
    Guy Macon



  10. Re: Guy Macon on using terms such as "Professional Engineer"

    In article <%eQmi.113714$G_4.16464@fe09.news.easynews.com>,
    rm@baseballproctologist.com (Roger Manyard) wrote:

    > >I see your point, Medical Practitioners, are known as, or addressed as,
    > >Doctor or Doctors, (as a group), but it is purely a courtesy title, as
    > >with some dentists. They have no PhD but still use the title 'Doctor',
    > >having undertaken extensive periods of study.

    >
    > Actually, the initials MD refer to the latin "Medicinae Doctor", and
    > so an MD is quite properly addressed as a "Doctor." And, we too are
    > qualified to be addressed as "Doctor", since we have a "JD", which
    > is "Juris Doctor." However, holders of this degree typically eschew
    > the Dr. title.


    Not me, I like to be addressed (by underlings and strangers and police
    officers) as Doctor Oates or Professor Oates. Unlike some of my European
    colleagues, though, I eschew Doktor Doktor or Herr Professor Doktor,
    even thought it's true and really really silly.

    In England, I recall, surgeons think themselves one-step-up from your MD
    and thus don't like to be called "Doctor." Of course, there's nothing
    else, so they revert to "Mister." It's very strange when you're a North
    American and your dentist's secretary keeps correcting your usage:
    "_Mister_ Bergen can see you first thing in the morning."
    --
    W. Oates

  11. Re: Guy Macon on using terms such as "Professional Engineer"

    On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 18:28:51 +0000, Guy Macon wrote:



    > Safety comes from insuring that the product is designed to
    > comply with appropriate standards, not by attempting to control
    > who is and isn't allowed to design things.


    Correction to your English: in this context, the word should be
    "ensuring", not "insuring". Completely different meanings...

    With that said, who exactly *ensures* that a product complies with
    standards, if it's not done by the designer? Someone else has to come
    along behind the designer and check the design for compliance?


    --
    "Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".


  12. Re: on using terms such as "Professional Engineer"

    Warren Oates trolled:
    > rm@baseballproctologist.com (Roger Manyard) wrote:


    >Not me, I like to be addressed (by underlings and strangers and
    >police officers) as Doctor Oates or Professor Oates. Unlike some of
    >my European colleagues, though, I eschew Doktor Doktor or Herr
    >Professor Doktor, even thought it's true and really really silly.


    Which kind of Doctor are you?

    And can we get Macon's name out of the subject line? He doesn't
    really deserve all the attention he is getting, although he loves
    it.

    cordially, as always,

    rm

  13. Re: Guy Macon on using terms such as "Professional Engineer"




    Dan C wrote:
    >
    >Guy Macon wrote:
    >
    >> Safety comes from insuring that the product is designed to
    >> comply with appropriate standards, not by attempting to control
    >> who is and isn't allowed to design things.

    >
    >Correction to your English: in this context, the word should be
    >"ensuring", not "insuring". Completely different meanings...


    Sorry about that. Typo that passed the spellchecker.
    I do know the difference and did mean to write "ensure."

    Thanks for correcting my error.

    >With that said, who exactly *ensures* that a product complies with
    >standards, if it's not done by the designer? Someone else has to come
    >along behind the designer and check the design for compliance?


    The business entity (corporation, etc.) has to ensure that a
    product complies with appropriate standards. While it is
    convenient to have the designer make it right the first time,
    there are exceptions. For example, Mattel has toy designers
    who sometimes make a fun toy that doesn't meet Consumer Product
    Safety Commission standards. Mattel has a special group of
    engineers who review all designs and makes sure they comply.
    One designer in particular I worked with was really, really
    good at making toys fun and low-cost, but just couldn't get
    the hang of avoiding choking hazards. So we fixed the problems.

    Another example is FCC interference standards. In this case,
    compliance must be verified by an independent testing lab.

    It's two different philosophies; one philosophy is to certify
    the engineer by making him take various tests and attend various
    kinds of training and then to trust his designs. The other
    is to certify the *design*, either with an internal safety dept.
    or with independent testing. I have designed a number of parts
    that are part of commercial and military aircraft, but I sure
    as heck wasn't able to get them onto the plane without the
    designs being reviewed and reviewed again!


    --
    Guy Macon



  14. Re: on using terms such as "Professional Engineer"

    In article ,
    rm@baseballproctologist.com (Roger Manyard) wrote:

    > Which kind of Doctor are you?


    Professorial. Trust me, I'm two doctors.
    --
    W. Oates

  15. Re: on using terms such as "Professional Engineer"

    Warren Oates trolled:
    >In article ,
    > rm@baseballproctologist.com (Roger Manyard) wrote:


    >> Which kind of Doctor are you?


    >Professorial. Trust me, I'm two doctors.


    Gee, and we thought you were an underrated supporting actor,
    primarily of westerns, who died prematurely of a heart attack.

    cordially, as always,

    rm

  16. Re: Guy Macon on using terms such as "Professional Engineer"




    Warren Oates wrote:

    >I'm two doctors.


    Would that make you a paradox?

    Or a pair o' docs?




  17. Re: Guy Macon on using terms such as "Professional Engineer"

    Two Ravens wrote:

    > perhaps an Engineer who has either a degree or a license from
    > California could enlighten us.
    >


    Well, that's three strikes for Guy.

    With kind regards

    Chu

  18. Re: Guy Macon on using terms such as "Professional Engineer"

    krw wrote:

    >
    >> How can this California Engineer have a both a license without a degree
    >> and a degree without a license? How many engineers are we talking about?
    >> Is that where the binary variable comes in, there are two engineers?

    >
    > Read it again. Do you know what "OR* means?
    >
    >> If we are suddenly talking about two engineers, well then yes, this all
    >> makes sense now and I see where I went wrong. Thank you for enlightening me.

    >
    > Read it again and think *OR*.
    >


    Thank you, I think I've got it. The key was the word OR, as you suggested.

    This California Engineer that we are talking about (and lets be
    perfectly clear about this, there's only one, right?) can be either;

    a) licensed, without a degree, OR
    b) degreed, without a licence, OR
    c) neither a nor b, OR
    d) both a and b.

    Thank you very much for clearing that up, you've been most patient.
    Please forgive my original lack of understanding, but English is not my
    first language.

    With kind regards

    Chu

  19. Re: Guy Macon Upsets Six Million Children

    Guy Macon wrote:


    >
    > Six million toys were sold by Mattel with me listed as the lead
    > engineer.
    >


    And they all broke on Boxing day.

    With kind regards

    Chu

  20. Re: Guy Macon Upsets Six Million Children

    ChuMaiFat trolled:
    >Guy Macon wrote:


    >> Six million toys were sold by Mattel with me listed as the lead
    >> engineer.


    >And they all broke on Boxing day.


    And the dozen that didn't break were recalled.

    cordially, as always,

    rm

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