REQ: Best Slackware intro . . . - Slackware

This is a discussion on REQ: Best Slackware intro . . . - Slackware ; Folks, I'm an Electronic Engineering Tech student with a 1 GHz computer in my back room that was storage and has recently been rendered obsolete by a tasty .5 TB drive I've slapped on the living room system (which must ...

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Thread: REQ: Best Slackware intro . . .

  1. REQ: Best Slackware intro . . .

    Folks,
    I'm an Electronic Engineering Tech student with a 1 GHz computer in
    my back room that was storage and has recently been rendered obsolete
    by a tasty .5 TB drive I've slapped on the living room system (which
    must be a windows station by order of my wife.)
    Always wanted a linux box, and I figure learning Linux as invaluable
    for my course of studies in any case, so, as I have the spare
    hardware, the time is now. . . .
    I installed Slackware once years ago, then found myself staring
    blankly at a command line, unable to summon up a gui, without
    guidance . . .you know. Found it much easier to boot SLAX and roll.
    I'm no stranger to the command line . . . I'm 36, remember when
    windows was a program you ran, bought issues of byte magazine to get
    code to punch into my C-64 . . . but Linux command line - worse than
    greek to me.
    I can't be alone here, and I know there's others out there in the
    same boat, so I'm guessing there's an awesome tutorial out there that
    starts with a linux distro in your hand and an unpartitioned drive in
    front of you and ends up happily ever after in KDE or similar . . .

    But where? I've googled myself silly, so I'm turning to y'all.

    Calvin


  2. Re: REQ: Best Slackware intro . . .

    And then I searched this newsgroup and found the Book of Slack,
    which looks good.

    Still, I'd appreciate pointers towards any other tutorials you guys
    suggest.

    Thanks,
    Calvin


  3. Re: REQ: Best Slackware intro . . .

    On 2007-07-11, mann.calvin.eet@gmail.com wrote:
    > I can't be alone here, and I know there's others out there in the
    > same boat, so I'm guessing there's an awesome tutorial out there that
    > starts with a linux distro in your hand and an unpartitioned drive in
    > front of you and ends up happily ever after in KDE or similar . . .


    Not exactly tutorial, but http://slackbook.org/ is probably a good place
    to start.

    --keith

    --
    kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
    (try just my userid to email me)
    AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
    see X- headers for PGP signature information


  4. Re: REQ: Best Slackware intro . . .

    mann.calvin.eet@gmail.com wrote:
    > And then I searched this newsgroup and found the Book of Slack,
    > which looks good.
    >
    > Still, I'd appreciate pointers towards any other tutorials you guys
    > suggest.


    Well, its not a tutorial, but its useful anyway:
    http://tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/
    http://tldp.org/

    Slightly OT, but FreeBSD generally has a good manual:
    http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO...ooks/handbook/
    (I think this is the gold standard upon which many linux distros base
    their own documentation.)

    - Daniel

  5. Re: REQ: Best Slackware intro . . .

    On 2007-07-11, mann.calvin.eet@gmail.com wrote:
    >
    > Still, I'd appreciate pointers towards any other tutorials you guys
    > suggest.


    Here's a few that actually help:

    http://www.linuxcommand.org/
    .....start here.

    http://www.justlinux.com/nhf/
    .....help in noob-speak. Read: Software > Compiling Software.

    http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/linux/cmd/
    .....Save $30 on the book!

    What are you waiting for? Hit it, noob!

    good luck,
    nb

  6. Re: REQ: Best Slackware intro . . .




    Calvin wrote:

    >I'm an Electronic Engineering Tech student with a 1 GHz computer in
    >my back room that was storage and has recently been rendered obsolete
    >by a tasty .5 TB drive I've slapped on the living room system (which
    >must be a windows station by order of my wife.)
    >
    > Always wanted a linux box, and I figure learning Linux as invaluable
    >for my course of studies in any case, so, as I have the spare
    >hardware, the time is now...


    In addition to the fine advice others have given about learning
    Slackware, let me give you some perspective on using Linux and
    or BSD in Electrical Engineering.

    If your career goes the way of most EEs, you will have a Windows
    box on your desk. That's because Linux still has nothing to
    compete with Autocad, Orcad, etc. You will be far more effective
    than your coworkers if you own your own Linux or BSD Laptop that
    runs Windows under VMWare Workstation and on the work PC you run
    Linux or BSD under Windows using VMWare Workstation. It's a good
    idea to get a small hardware firewall/switcher and to put it
    between your desktop/laptop and the corporate network. This is
    purely political; it insulates you from accusations that Linux
    is somehow responsible for network problems.

    You are also likely to run into test fixtures and automation that
    consist of a stack of GPIB instruments and a PC running Windows
    and a custom-built program written in Visual Basic or Visual C++.
    Here is your chance to shine. Replace the PC with one running
    Linux or BSD with a test procram written in GCC C/C++ or Python
    and you will be the genuis who replaced an unreliab;e system with
    a reliable one. Slackware is ideal for this sort of thing.

    Finally, get familiar with the various brands of Real-Time Linux
    and with QNX. QNX in particular is light years ahead of anything
    they will already be using. The final tool in your toolchest
    should be some knowledge of the FORTH programming language.

    All this is for the future, of course. Right now you are doing
    exactly the right thing. Besides making you a better EE, it
    will look good on your resume.

    Please keep us posted (ignoring certain people rather than
    getting sucked in -- it will soon become obvious who), and
    please make a note of my webpage and let me know when you
    start looking for that first job. Good luck!

    --
    Guy Macon







  7. Re: REQ: Best Slackware intro . . .

    On 2007-07-12, Guy Macon wrote:

    > Finally, get familiar with the various brands of Real-Time Linux
    > and with QNX. QNX in particular is light years ahead of anything
    > they will already be using.


    OK, I may be dumber'n a bag o' hammers, but I run linux and understand
    basic programming concepts, even if I do suck at it. So, I was
    completely floored when I read QNX's products page and still haven't a
    clue what this product even remotely does. Sure, I know market hype
    is rife with bull like "clean migration strategy" and "utilize
    comprehensive internationalization functionaluty", but c'mon. What,
    exactly, does it do? ...in 25 "real" words or less. Before you start,
    clear up the silly phrase, "Real-Time Linux". WTF is that? The
    opposite of Fake-Time Linux? If linux doesn't run in "real time",
    just what time does it run in? I'm serious. Real time serious.

    nb

  8. Re: REQ: Best Slackware intro . . .

    mann.calvin.eet@gmail.com trolled:

    >And then I searched this newsgroup and found the Book of Slack,
    >which looks good.


    There is no such thing as the "Book of Slack." Quasi-mystical
    garbage type references were purged from this ng years ago for being
    hackneyed cliches that have absolutely nothing to do with computing.

    The name of the book is "Slackware Linux Essentials." Parts of it
    are ok, and that's about all that can be said.

    cordially, as always,

    rm
    --
    .... the only things that separates (slackware) from others are the
    things it lacks... not has. -- ANC

  9. Guy Macon is NOT an Engineer

    Guy Macon trolled:

    >In addition to the fine advice others have given about learning
    >Slackware, let me give you some perspective on using Linux and
    >or BSD in Electrical Engineering.


    You are not an Electrical Engineer. You are a fraud. You are
    nothing more than an uneducated technician, at best. Or perhaps you
    could describe yourself as a handyman. But you are NOT an Engineer.

    >If your career goes the way of most EEs, you will have a Windows
    >box on your desk.


    How on earth would you know? The only time you have been in an
    Engineer's office is when the floors needed mopping and the trash
    removed.

    >That's because Linux still has nothing to compete with Autocad,
    >Orcad, etc. You will be far more effective than your coworkers if
    >you own your own Linux or BSD Laptop that runs Windows under VMWare
    >Workstation and on the work PC you run Linux or BSD under Windows
    >using VMWare Workstation.


    Only if you know linux, and don't know windoze. Your suggestion is
    a ridiculous, amateur, hack. And we would never, ever, trust an
    "Engineer" who used such a kludge.

    But you wouldn't know about this because you are NOT an Engineer.

    You are NOT an Engineer.

    cordially, as always,

    rm

  10. Re: REQ: Best Slackware intro . . .

    notbob wrote:
    > I read QNX's products page and still haven't a clue what this product
    > even remotely does.


    > What exactly, does it do? ...in 25 "real" words or less.


    QNX is a small real time OS with a posix API. The posix API basically
    means that it looks very similar to Linux and other unixes.

    > Before you start, clear up the silly phrase, "Real-Time Linux". WTF is
    > that? The opposite of Fake-Time Linux?


    A real time OS has mechanisms to guarantee that a given task can be
    completed within a certain time. Such mechanisms usually include things
    like real time priorities where the task with the highest priority is
    permitted to run uniterrupted until it is done and by its own will leaves
    the CPU for other tasks.

    If you would build a car which had an airbag controlled by an interrupt
    from some kind of crash sensor you would want to be sure that this airbag
    is activated within maybe 5 ms after the crash sensor has given a
    detection. Then you would not want an OS that says "I'll handle that crash
    detector interrupt as soon as I have flushed the disk cache".

    regards Henrik
    --
    The address in the header is only to prevent spam. My real address is:
    hc1(at)poolhem.se Examples of addresses which go to spammers:
    root@localhost postmaster@localhost


  11. Re: REQ: Best Slackware intro . . .

    Glyn Millington trolled:
    >rm@baseballproctologist.com (Realto) writes:


    >> The name of the book is "Slackware Linux Essentials." Parts of
    >> it are ok, and that's about all that can be said.


    >Well, it can also be said that it is the *official* guide to
    >Slackware, and thus deals with some Slackware-specific stuff you
    >won't easily find elsewhere.


    We defy you to show us a single item in this book that is not
    available on google. The book is not part of the slackware
    distribution, although the same people sell it.

    cordially, as always,

    rm

  12. Re: REQ: Best Slackware intro . . .

    Glyn Millington trolled:
    >rm@baseballproctologist.com (Roger Manyard) writes:
    >> Glyn Millington trolled:
    >>>rm@baseballproctologist.com (Realto) writes:


    >>>> The name of the book is "Slackware Linux Essentials." Parts of
    >>>> it are ok, and that's about all that can be said.


    >>>Well, it can also be said that it is the *official* guide to
    >>>Slackware, and thus deals with some Slackware-specific stuff you
    >>>won't easily find elsewhere.


    >> We defy you to show us a single item in this book that is not
    >> available on google.


    >Oh it can certainly all be found on Google - the virtue of the
    >*official* Slackware Book is that it has all this stuff in one
    >place, including the details about Slackware package management
    >system and a walk through the setup program.


    All of which is old and out of date.

    >That stuff is certainly available elsewhere, after a fashion......
    >but why go elsewhere.


    To get up to date info?

    >For the newcomer to Slackware this is probably the best place to
    >start.


    Actually this ng is probably much better, even if the newbie is
    chased off with a demand not to come back until they've googled for
    the answer.

    >> The book is not part of the slackware distribution, although the
    >> same people sell it.


    >True - but it is referred to on the Slackware website as "The
    >official guide to Slackware Linux,"


    >http://www.slackware.com/book/


    And while that may be true, it isn't really the "official guide"
    unless it is included with the distro. The fact that you can buy
    the distro without it gives you some idea of its real value.

    >Which I take to be a pretty solid endorsement :-)


    Are you one of the authors? Is The Coward one of the authors? He
    has been seeking official status for years.

    cordially, as always,

    rm

  13. Re: REQ: Best Slackware intro . . .

    Roger Manyard wrote:
    > We defy you to show us a single item in this book that is not
    > available on google. The book is not part of the slackware
    > distribution, although the same people sell it.


    It is, it is on the CD set (#5) cq DVD (in de "slackbook" directory).
    Pat even supplies 3 versions of it there: a pdf, a "printready"
    PostScript file and the full HTML version.

    This for people who would take rm's rants seriously, not as a reply
    TO him!
    --
    ************************************************** ******************
    ** Eef Hartman, Delft University of Technology, dept. EWI/TW **
    ** e-mail: E.J.M.Hartman@math.tudelft.nl, fax: +31-15-278 7295 **
    ** snail-mail: P.O. Box 5031, 2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands **
    ************************************************** ******************

  14. Re: REQ: Best Slackware intro . . .

    Eef Hartman trolled:
    >Roger Manyard wrote:


    >> We defy you to show us a single item in this book that is not
    >> available on google. The book is not part of the slackware
    >> distribution, although the same people sell it.


    >It is, it is on the CD set (#5) cq DVD (in de "slackbook"


    "de slackbook?" You mean "the slackbook?"

    >directory). Pat even supplies 3 versions of it there: a pdf, a
    >"printready" PostScript file and the full HTML version.


    Thank you for pointing this out. It would be nice if this was
    pointed out on the website where they are trying to sell you the
    book, along with the distro.

    The next time we will simply download the distro, delete the
    offending files, and then make a cash donation to slackware which
    will be the cost of the distro less the book's price.

    cordially, as always,

    rm

  15. Re: REQ: Best Slackware intro . . .

    Glyn Millington trolled:
    >rm@baseballproctologist.com (Roger Manyard) writes:


    >>>Oh it can certainly all be found on Google - the virtue of the
    >>>*official* Slackware Book is that it has all this stuff in one
    >>>place, including the details about Slackware package management
    >>>system and a walk through the setup program.


    >> All of which is old and out of date.


    >Chapter and verse please - where is the description of the package
    >management system out of date? There are some differences with
    >the setup programme, but not many.


    The package management system has been out of date for at least 10
    years.

    >>>That stuff is certainly available elsewhere, after a
    >>>fashion...... but why go elsewhere.


    >> To get up to date info?


    >On what, Roger, on what? Details please.


    How about, on just about anything? The fact is, unless you do
    google on _every_ topic, you won't know if you have the latest
    information. So why not just google anyway?

    >Or are you in fact trying to put people off Slackware Linux
    >Essentials as a matter of principle, because you dislike one of the
    >authors, rather than on any REAL, ie technical grounds?


    Our point is legitimate. Hardcover "manuals" on IT stuff are
    _always_ out of date, before they are even published. And given the
    penchant for a certain element to always be telling people to google
    for their answers, we would expect some support in our argument.

    Instead, you defend the book, because you like one of the authors,
    rather than on any REAL, ie technical grounds.

    >>>For the newcomer to Slackware this is probably the best place to
    >>>start.


    >> Actually this ng is probably much better, even if the newbie is
    >> chased off with a demand not to come back until they've googled
    >> for the answer.


    >Not so - not so at all. The noise to signal ratio here is much to
    >high for most newbies. And here we are adding to it!


    Hardly. There is only good information coming from our terminal.

    >>>> The book is not part of the slackware distribution, although
    >>>> the same people sell it.


    >>>True - but it is referred to on the Slackware website as "The
    >>>official guide to Slackware Linux,"


    >>>http://www.slackware.com/book/


    >> And while that may be true, it isn't really the "official guide"
    >> unless it is included with the distro.


    >Why ever not? It says that this is the official guide on
    >Slackware's own website - this is the book PV himself recommends.
    >What could be more "official" than that?


    It has already been pointed out that it is included with the distro,
    which raises an even more important issue. It's a pity that those
    who are foolish enough to buy the book are not told that 3 copies of
    it are already included with the distro.

    Since the 3 copies that are included with the distro, for free, are
    soft copies, can we infer that those copies are updated to include
    12.0 and are more current than the hard copy that is being sold
    separately? Or are the free copies out of date as well?

    >> The fact that you can buy the distro without it gives you some
    >> idea of its real value.


    >The fact that you say that shows that you are clutching at straws
    >in an attempt to discredit a good resource for personal rather than
    >technical reasons. It gives us a very clear idea of the value of
    >your opinions on the subject.


    We are giving our logical and dispassionate opinion about slackware
    generally, and the book in question, specifically. All you are
    doing is attacking our motives, and ourself personally, in a
    fallacious, ad hominem, and laughably innocuous attempt to discredit
    our views. In doing so, you insult both yourself and the others
    reading this drivel. But curiously enough, we don't feel insulted.
    We'll leave it to you to figure out why.

    cordially, as always,

    rm

  16. Re: REQ: Best Slackware intro . . .

    On 2007-07-12, Henrik Carlqvist wrote:

    > A real time OS has mechanisms to guarantee that a given task can be
    > completed within a certain time. Such mechanisms usually include things
    > like real time priorities where the task with the highest priority is
    > permitted to run uniterrupted until it is done and by its own will leaves
    > the CPU for other tasks.
    >
    > If you would build a car which had an airbag controlled by an interrupt
    > from some kind of crash sensor you would want to be sure that this airbag
    > is activated within maybe 5 ms after the crash sensor has given a
    > detection. Then you would not want an OS that says "I'll handle that crash
    > detector interrupt as soon as I have flushed the disk cache".


    The phrase "real time" has always baffled me. Thank you for
    clarifying the concept in such an easily understood and concise
    manner.

    nb

  17. Re: REQ: Best Slackware intro . . .

    Henrik Carlqvist (Henrik.Carlqvist@deadspam.com) writes:
    > notbob wrote:
    >> I read QNX's products page and still haven't a clue what this product
    >> even remotely does.

    >
    >> What exactly, does it do? ...in 25 "real" words or less.

    >
    > QNX is a small real time OS with a posix API. The posix API basically
    > means that it looks very similar to Linux and other unixes.
    >
    >> Before you start, clear up the silly phrase, "Real-Time Linux". WTF is
    >> that? The opposite of Fake-Time Linux?

    >
    > A real time OS has mechanisms to guarantee that a given task can be
    > completed within a certain time. Such mechanisms usually include things
    > like real time priorities where the task with the highest priority is
    > permitted to run uniterrupted until it is done and by its own will leaves
    > the CPU for other tasks.
    >
    > If you would build a car which had an airbag controlled by an interrupt
    > from some kind of crash sensor you would want to be sure that this airbag
    > is activated within maybe 5 ms after the crash sensor has given a
    > detection. Then you would not want an OS that says "I'll handle that crash
    > detector interrupt as soon as I have flushed the disk cache".
    >

    I started to try to explain it, and put it aside.

    It's worth contrasting with Linux, where it doesn't matter if the kernel
    isn't waiting for you when you press the key on the keyboard, because
    it will check long before you move on. Multitasking operating systems
    do act like they are doing all kinds of things at the same time, simply
    because they switch around fast enough for most things that you never
    notice. But there is a delay (however small) that is too much of a delay
    for some applications.

    Michael


  18. Re: REQ: Best Slackware intro . . .

    Glyn Millington wrote:
    >> which raises an even more important issue. It's a pity that those
    >> who are foolish enough to buy the book are not told that 3 copies of
    >> it are already included with the distro.

    >
    > Yes, I agree - though some folk would still buy the hard copy.


    This is what the website says ABOUT the book:

    > * Slackware Linux Essentials *


    > The official guide to Slackware Linux, the Slackware Linux Essentials,
    > has been recently revised. If you want to be able to read it online, you
    > may want to visit the *slackbook website* .


    > You may also want to buy a printed copy, in that case please visit the
    > *Slackware Store* !


    So essentially the WEBsite already is saying that you only need to BUY
    the book when you want a printed copy.

    > You have yet to show that the hard copy is seriously out of date. I have
    > at l;east suggested one area - so far you have provided no details at
    > all. Are you condemning the book without even having read it Roger?


    Of course he is, Alan Hicks is one of the authors and he has a
    long-running feud against Alan.
    Probably can't stand it that Alan made a real and tangible contribution
    towards the Slackware project.

    Having said this, I now go back to my normal policy of ignoring
    everything which is said by or towards rm.
    --
    ************************************************** ******************
    ** Eef Hartman, Delft University of Technology, dept. EWI/TW **
    ** e-mail: E.J.M.Hartman@math.tudelft.nl, fax: +31-15-278 7295 **
    ** snail-mail: P.O. Box 5031, 2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands **
    ************************************************** ******************

  19. Re: REQ: Best Slackware intro . . .

    Roger Manyard wrote:

    > Eef Hartman trolled:
    >>Roger Manyard wrote:

    >
    >>> We defy you to show us a single item in this book that is not
    >>> available on google. The book is not part of the slackware
    >>> distribution, although the same people sell it.

    >
    >>It is, it is on the CD set (#5) cq DVD (in de "slackbook"

    >
    > "de slackbook?" You mean "the slackbook?"
    >

    - - - - < snip > - - - - - -

    > The next time we will simply download the distro, delete the
    > offending files, and then make a cash donation to slackware which
    > will be the cost of the distro less the book's price.
    >

    erm.....in how many and whose names will you donate? I mean, which of the
    multiple personalities that you contain, will this donation be made?

    > cordially, as always,
    >
    > rm


    --
    humjohn AT aerosurf DOT net

  20. Re: Guy Macon is NOT an Engineer

    Realto wrote:

    > Guy Macon trolled:
    >
    >>In addition to the fine advice others have given about learning
    >>Slackware, let me give you some perspective on using Linux and
    >>or BSD in Electrical Engineering.

    >
    > You are not an Electrical Engineer. You are a fraud. You are
    > nothing more than an uneducated technician, at best. Or perhaps you
    > could describe yourself as a handyman. But you are NOT an Engineer.
    >
    >>If your career goes the way of most EEs, you will have a Windows
    >>box on your desk.

    >
    > How on earth would you know? The only time you have been in an
    > Engineer's office is when the floors needed mopping and the trash
    > removed.
    >
    >>That's because Linux still has nothing to compete with Autocad,
    >>Orcad, etc. You will be far more effective than your coworkers if
    >>you own your own Linux or BSD Laptop that runs Windows under VMWare
    >>Workstation and on the work PC you run Linux or BSD under Windows
    >>using VMWare Workstation.

    >
    > Only if you know linux, and don't know windoze. Your suggestion is
    > a ridiculous, amateur, hack. And we would never, ever, trust an
    > "Engineer" who used such a kludge.
    >
    > But you wouldn't know about this because you are NOT an Engineer.
    >
    > You are NOT an Engineer.
    >
    > cordially, as always,
    >
    > rm



    All this from a baseball proctologist! (Get your head out of that
    shortstop's rear end!)

    --
    humjohn AT aerosurf DOT net

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