Re: P.V. comes under fire - Slackware

This is a discussion on Re: P.V. comes under fire - Slackware ; "Realto" wrote in message news:TrAki.1$38.0@fe07.news.easynews.com... > Probably. There would be a huge fight for control. We saw a bit of > it happen when PV got sick a few years ago. All kinds of trash were > horning in, trying ...

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Thread: Re: P.V. comes under fire

  1. Re: P.V. comes under fire


    "Realto" wrote in message
    news:TrAki.1$38.0@fe07.news.easynews.com...
    > Probably. There would be a huge fight for control. We saw a bit of
    > it happen when PV got sick a few years ago. All kinds of trash were
    > horning in, trying to claim "official" status, from which they would
    > try to launch a "legitimate" takeover if the situation came to that.
    >
    > It's all there in the aols archives. Just do a search for "Alan
    > Hicks official status"
    >



    I was reading the posts back when it happened. I was using Slack then a bit
    and wondered about it then. This time it's a bit more compelling for me to
    know before I commit too much. I don't really expect any guarantees, but an
    educated guess would be nice.

    I've never heard PV post here, and doubt if we will get an answer straight
    from his side though. :sigh>



  2. Re: P.V. comes under fire

    Travis McGee wrote:

    > I've been reading this thread with interest, because commiting to
    > Slackware is a huge investment in time and energy. It may make sense, as
    > it's the only distro I'd ever take the time to really learn.
    >
    > The rantings of some that had a problem with the release date, doesn't
    > bother me at all, even though I "was' in the situation of having a new
    > computer and waiting for 12 to arrive. That's not PV's fault and should
    > not enter into his decision tree at all, for anyone. I could have just
    > bought Vista, right??")
    >
    > Anyway, what "may" get my attention is that this distro is the work on one
    > man and he alone controls it. How do you reconcile that with what may
    > happen in the future? Is there a "fallback scenario" that I'm not aware of
    > for anyone?
    >
    > In plain English, if PV decides to take a long vacation, am I screwed?


    Patrick Volkerding commented on this during his illness. Following is from
    the changelog, January 22, 2005.

    "Also, in case of emergency I've left instructions with some very trusted
    people, so nobody should have to worry that if something happens to me
    that their Slackware systems will be orphaned and unsupported. It may be a
    long road back for me, but there will be people taking care of security
    issues as they crop up (like the folks at GUS-BR and SlackSec), and if I
    should make an unplanned departure there is a basic plan of succession in
    place."

    If you read the changelog, you will see that a lot of people help out, and
    some of the same names come up again and again.

    My crystal ball says: Several groups may emerge to lay claim to the
    Slackware legacy; PV will have left the Slackware name to people of his
    choosing; and the distribution will survive and improve. You may even have
    your choice of several quality distributions.

    By the way, if you take Roger's advice and search the archives for Alan
    Hicks' involvement, you'll learn that Hicks has made contributions that PV
    recognized as valuable. For some reason this annoys the hell out of Roger.
    You should take everything Roger writes with several grains of salt. And
    fair warning, he's _very_ sensitive about his sister and her friends.

    --
    Old Man

    "Swagger isn't courage." Lee Iacocca

  3. Re: P.V. comes under fire

    Old Man trolled:

    >My crystal ball says: Several groups may emerge to lay claim to
    >the Slackware legacy; PV will have left the Slackware name to
    >people of his choosing; and the distribution will survive and
    >improve. You may even have your choice of several quality
    >distributions.


    Several groups _will_ emerge, and each of them will claim to be the
    "real" slackware, no matter who has the slackware name.

    >By the way, if you take Roger's advice and search the archives for
    >Alan Hicks' involvement, you'll learn that Hicks has made
    >contributions that PV recognized as valuable.


    The only thing that is even mildly "annoying" about what you posts
    is the fact that you can't seem to get our name right. As for Mr.
    Hicks, the poster remembers the controversy and he will likely
    remember that we were hardly the only person complaining about
    Hicks' tactics and behaviour at that time.

    >For some reason this annoys the hell out of Roger. You should take
    >everything Roger writes with several grains of salt. And fair
    >warning, he's _very_ sensitive about his sister and her friends.


    You get your ass kicked in argument so you just hang around making
    silly non sequiturs. You're a transparent phony.

    cordially, as always,

    rm

  4. Re: P.V. comes under fire

    On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 19:39:25 -0400, Old Man wrote:

    >> Show us that you have some self-respect.


    > So, one of you is a Jewish mother?
    > Be sure to get that message to your sister, now.


    I'll tell her, tonight.


    --
    "Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".


  5. Re: P.V. comes under fire

    On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 00:18:08 +0000, Travis McGee wrote:

    > man and he alone controls it. How do you reconcile that with what may
    > happen in the future? Is there a "fallback scenario" that I'm not aware
    > of for anyone?


    > In plain English, if PV decides to take a long vacation, am I screwed?


    Not really. Slack is so close to being purist in concept what you learn
    is easily transferred to any other distro. In fact if you know Slack
    good you'll end up being the guy answering the hard questions for users
    of other distros.

    From what I've learned with Slack I carried that knowledge to Gentoo
    and even BSD. If I wasn't so lazy I'd tackle LFS (Linux from Scratch).

    We'd all miss PV but in the event something changes you will not have
    wasted any time invested.

    --
    Linux Help: http://rsgibson.com/linux.htm
    Email - rsgibson@verizon.borg
    Replace borg with net


  6. Re: P.V. comes under fire

    Realto wrote:

    > Several groups _will_ emerge, and each of them will claim to be the
    > "real" slackware, no matter who has the slackware name.


    That's pretty much what I said, asshole, but viewed sort of inside out and
    backward, which is a function of your very special bentness.

    >>By the way, if you take Roger's advice and search the archives for
    >>Alan Hicks' involvement, you'll learn that Hicks has made
    >>contributions that PV recognized as valuable.

    >
    > The only thing that is even mildly "annoying" about what you posts
    > is the fact that you can't seem to get our name right. As for Mr.
    > Hicks, the poster remembers the controversy and he will likely
    > remember that we were hardly the only person complaining about
    > Hicks' tactics and behaviour at that time.


    He was referring to PV's illness, not to your dumbass campaign against
    Hicks. Geez, Roger, I know its hard but try to focus.

    >>For some reason this annoys the hell out of Roger. You should take
    >>everything Roger writes with several grains of salt. And fair
    >>warning, he's _very_ sensitive about his sister and her friends.

    >
    > You get your ass kicked in argument so you just hang around making
    > silly non sequiturs. You're a transparent phony.


    You're delusional. I'm sleepy. Don't let the spiders get you.

    --
    Old Man

    "Swagger isn't courage." Lee Iacocca

  7. Re: P.V. comes under fire

    Well everything makes pretty good sense, although I'd rather PV made the
    names public, that he wishes to carry on. God willing, things don't change
    soon, but I'll bet my Win box that there are groups already poised to
    take-over regardless.

    Which is the flip side of this same coin. A camel is a horse made by
    commitee. Which is why so many distros are screwed up right now, IMHO> Also
    large ententies like eBAy for another example. Windows is dead man walking
    for this reason. They may have market share, but only because some haven't
    yet found out it's more trouble to stay than to switch. They keep up the
    bloatware marketing strategy, and it will collapse like the USSR..

    So, it a good thing it's a one man show, I think. But a good plan of
    succession is also a good thing.

    I'll just assume he's already done this, and also assume this current
    controvesy is so much self serving gossip. (Until further facts are known).

    Thanks for the explanations, guys.

    And the bickering here is "really' entertaining



  8. Re: P.V. comes under fire

    In article ,
    Keith Keller wrote:

    > unlike the OP of this thread, who whines
    > exclusively).


    As I often say, I know just what tune to play on my old violin to get
    you and the rest of the pack of wild dogs to dance around and howl at
    the moon!

    ANC

  9. Re: P.V. comes under fire

    On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 02:56:44 +0000, Travis McGee wrote:

    > Well everything makes pretty good sense, although I'd rather PV made the
    > names public, that he wishes to carry on.


    What you'd "rather" isn't important, to anybody.

    > God willing, things don't change soon, but I'll bet my Win box that
    > there are groups already poised to take-over regardless.


    And if you lose your "Win box", you'll be offline, won't you, Win-droid?

    > Which is the flip side of this same coin. A camel is a horse made by
    > commitee. Which is why so many distros are screwed up right now, IMHO


    Your HO is meaningless, since you likely don't know piss about "so many
    distros", Win-droid. If you did, you wouldn't be using Windoze and
    posting to A.O.L.S. from Outhouse Excuse.

    > So, it a good thing it's a one man show, I think. But a good plan of
    > succession is also a good thing.


    You don't "think" at all. You're a drooling Win-droid, and likely always
    will be. Why are you here in the Slackware newsgroup, anyway?

    > Thanks for the explanations, guys.


    Bugger off.



    --
    "Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".


  10. Re: P.V. comes under fire

    Ron Gibson trolled:
    >On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 00:18:08 +0000, Travis McGee wrote:


    >> In plain English, if PV decides to take a long vacation, am I screwed?


    >Not really. Slack is so close to being purist in concept what you learn
    >is easily transferred to any other distro. In fact if you know Slack
    >good you'll end up being the guy answering the hard questions for users
    >of other distros.


    This is absolute nonsense and one of the great slackware myths.
    Slackware's startup procedure is different from almost everybody
    else so you will be lost there. And because slackware relies on
    administration by text editor, you won't be able to take advantage
    of all the shortcuts builtin to the more modern distros that save
    you time and research. You won't be answering any questions at all,
    let alone the hard ones.

    >From what I've learned with Slack I carried that knowledge to
    >Gentoo and even BSD. If I wasn't so lazy I'd tackle LFS (Linux from
    >Scratch).


    And you could have just as easily brought your knowledge from other
    distros to slackware. Looking up all the options and then typing
    CLI commands does NOT mean that you know more about linux than the
    guy who simply clicks a mouse.

    >We'd all miss PV but in the event something changes you will not
    >have wasted any time invested.


    This is true of any distro. If you know one linux, you know them
    all. The only "advantage" with slackware is that you'll get more
    practice with bash. And bash ain't linux.

    cordially, as always,

    rm
    --
    .... the only things that separates (slackware) from others are the
    things it lacks... not has. -- ANC

  11. Re: P.V. comes under fire

    Realto wrote:
    > Ron Gibson trolled:
    >> On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 14:59:20 -0500, notbob wrote:

    >
    >>> 11's release was imminent. Who's fault is that? His for being
    >>> too trusting or the Store's for taking PV's timeline for granted.
    >>> It's a no win situation and everyone got tumbled. Everyone
    >>> except the faithful who know from long experience that "It'll be
    >>> ready when it's ready".

    >
    >> Unlike the crap that gets released by Mandrivia, et al, that
    >> immediately requires 4-500MB of patches and updates and it still
    >> runs like sh*t.

    >
    > The quality of PV's product is not the issue. It's the quality of
    > his service that is being questioned here. Now, some of you will
    > say that he doesn't care about service to his customers, and you
    > will somehow convince yourselves, if not others, that this is a good
    > thing. But it's not a good thing. Meeting a deadline is a point of
    > honour in the real world. Apologizing when you miss the deadline is
    > also a point of honour.
    >
    >> I have never had a problem with Pat's release dates. He waits until
    >> he gets all the niggles out and if he misses one big deal. The way
    >> he sticks to open standards makes it extremely easy to simply fix
    >> it yourself. Good grief I'm a complete C and C++ programing moron
    >> and if I

    >
    > But that's not the way people operate who care about their
    > customers.

    ************************************************** *********************
    > If one was, for instance, buying a brand new computer,
    > and he was waiting for the latest version, and he had pre-paid for a
    > copy of slack 12.0, what is he supposed to do?

    ************************************************** *********************
    Buying a box for non-existant OS?
    > Sit on his hands?

    No, go to hospital for brain installment, preferably from existing
    computer user.
    > Install 11.0 and then re-install 12.0? Try another distribution?

    All those suggestions are NOT rocket science.
    We been in this movie and done it.
    >
    > cordially, as always,
    >
    > rm


    Stanislaw.

  12. Re: P.V. comes under fire

    Travis McGee wrote:
    >
    > So, it a good thing it's a one man show, I think. But a good plan of
    > succession is also a good thing.


    Take about a half hour to read up on SysV init scripts after you are
    comfortable with Slackware. You will find you can then navigate
    pretty much any *nix system. Pretty much anything you learn from
    Slackware will be of use elsewhere.

    - Kurt

  13. Re: P.V. comes under fire

    ANC wrote:
    >
    > As I often say, I know just what tune to play on my old violin to get
    > you and the rest of the pack of wild dogs to dance around and howl at
    > the moon!


    Oh, so you admit you really are a troll!

    Gotcha - just like when rm admitted to spoofing people on this newsgroup,
    leading many of them to start using pgp signed sigs.

    - Kurt


  14. Re: P.V. comes under fire

    On 2007-07-10, ANC wrote:

    > As I often say, I know how to stroke my tiny erect ego.


    > ANC


  15. Re: P.V. comes under fire

    ~kurt trolled:
    >ANC wrote:
    >>
    >> As I often say, I know just what tune to play on my old violin to get
    >> you and the rest of the pack of wild dogs to dance around and howl at
    >> the moon!


    >Oh, so you admit you really are a troll!


    >Gotcha - just like when rm admitted to spoofing people on this
    >newsgroup, leading many of them to start using pgp signed sigs.


    Gotcha? We have never tried to conceal anything we have done in
    this ng. We have taken steps such that some things could never be
    proven, but we never tried to hide the fact that we did the things
    we did. If you thought it was a mystery that you solved, great.
    Have fun.

    cordially, as always,

    rm

  16. Re: P.V. comes under fire

    On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 04:06:56 +0000, ~kurt wrote:

    >> As I often say, I know just what tune to play on my old violin to get
    >> you and the rest of the pack of wild dogs to dance around and howl at
    >> the moon!


    > Oh, so you admit you really are a troll!


    Yes, he does, and not for the first time.

    > Gotcha - just like when rm admitted to spoofing people on this newsgroup,
    > leading many of them to start using pgp signed sigs.


    Yup.


    --
    "Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".


  17. Re: P.V. comes under fire

    In article ,
    ~kurt wrote:

    > ANC wrote:
    > >
    > > As I often say, I know just what tune to play on my old violin to get
    > > you and the rest of the pack of wild dogs to dance around and howl at
    > > the moon!

    >
    > Oh, so you admit you really are a troll!
    >
    >
    > - Kurt


    My goodness, Kurt. Where have you been hiding? Do I post provocative
    subjects to see you and notbob and Dan and Old Man come all over
    yourselves in either rebuttal or to engage in yet another bout of
    a.o.l.s. internecine warfare?

    Of course.

    Indeed, I think some 30 percent of the posts on this NG are for the
    explicit purpose of eliciting a heated response from the other dogs in
    the pack.

    There is still some half-way decent tech advice given here about
    Slackware, but I think most users have long ago abandoned this venue for
    the LQ site. And why not? You can ask a question there and not have to
    be grossed out by Dan C.

    Everyone here is a troll to some extent, with their own agendas,
    interests, and styles. It's so easy here.

    Take this thread. I posted a quote from one of your Slackware
    compatriots. It has nothing to do with Slackware the OS, so by some
    definition it is a troll. But it has had some 40+ responses.... some of
    them even semi-intelligent... something not seen too often in this
    venue... where the IQ approaches that of a rubber plant!

    When you come down to it, Slackware as an OS is boring. Those who have
    it, have had it or years and years and know about all they need to know.
    Nothing new AND exciting has been added for years and years... until
    this last release where you guys got a new kernel, HAL and dbus (all of
    which we've had in Debian-land for years now.) Yet even with new toys,
    the traffic here on substantive issues is dwarfed by that from what you
    would call 'trolls.'

    ANC

  18. Re: P.V. comes under fire

    Travis McGee wrote:

    > ... I don't really expect any guarantees, but an educated guess would
    > be nice.


    An educated guess is that in the worst case, there would be multiple
    forks of the distribution, perhaps with more than one claiming to be the
    "one true descendant of Slackware", and eventually settling down to a
    small number of surviving offshoots. In the best case, Patrick will
    publically and clearly hand the reins over to someone whom he firmly
    believes will carry on with Slackware the way it was intended. The most
    likely "real" case, I expect, is some combination of these two extremes.

    Either way, you're not likely to be "screwed" in any case. That's one
    of the primary advantages to using Linux in the first place. It's all
    free software, openly available to you at any time. You don't _need_
    Patrick Volkerding (or anyone else) to package it up for you, though
    it happens to be convenient that he does. If he stops doing it, you
    find out who else is packaging the same software in a similar manner,
    or you find another set of packaged software, put together in such a
    way that suits your tastes at the time, and you carry on.

    --
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Sylvain Robitaille syl@alcor.concordia.ca

    Systems and Network analyst Concordia University
    Instructional & Information Technology Montreal, Quebec, Canada
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

  19. Re: P.V. comes under fire


    "Dan C" wrote in message
    newsan.2007.07.10.03.31.21.25069@lan.invalid...
    > Bugger off.
    >


    One of these days we'll hopefully meet up.

    Until then..





  20. Re: P.V. comes under fire

    On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 03:57:11 GMT, rm@baseballproctologist.com (Realto)
    wrote:

    <>

    >This is true of any distro. If you know one linux, you know them
    >all. The only "advantage" with slackware is that you'll get more
    >practice with bash. And bash ain't linux.

    You keep saying the same thing, that bash ain't Linux, well then share
    your knowledge/experience with us, just what is Linux???

    Althiom

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