Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler wrote:

> HP releases the last ever revision of the Alpha CPU:
>

Of course they do. The end of AXP has been announced long ago..

> I guess it's officially down to MIPS, Power and Sparc against the
> likes of Itanic and x86 chips.

MIPS and SPARC have no light against Itanium, POWER and x86. SGI is the last
manufacturer producing computers with MIPS CPUs, and that certainly will
change in the somewhat near future. With SPARC - who knows...

> I hope the rumors of continued MIPS development are true, or the CPU
> scene is going to start looking really really boring.

Of course MIPS development will be continued and MIPS CPUs will still be
alive in several years - in the embedded market, just not in an SGI ;-)

Benjamin

Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler wrote:

> HP releases the last ever revision of the Alpha CPU:
>
>
> I guess it's officially down to MIPS, Power and Sparc against the likes of
> Itanic and x86 chips.
>
> I hope the rumors of continued MIPS development are true, or the CPU scene is
> going to start looking really really boring.

oh come on! ultraviolet is boring!?

>
>
> Cheers - Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler
>
> --
> Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler -- Master of Code-fu -- nicoya@ubb.ca
> -- http://nicoya.feline.pp.se/ -- http://www.ubb.ca/ --

"Benjamin Gawert" wrote:
> MIPS and SPARC have no light against Itanium, POWER and x86. ...

Can I have a 2048-CPU Itanium machine then? Opps, sorry, no such thing.

No problem with MIPS. Ask SGI, they'll do you won if you have the dosh.

For scalability, SGI MIPS/IRIX is way ahead of everyone, by an order
of magnitude comapred to some vendors (single image, etc.)


> Of course MIPS development will be continued and MIPS CPUs will still be
> alive in several years - in the embedded market, just not in an SGI ;-)

You cannot possibly know that for sure. Jeez Benjamin, stop being so
negative all the time.

Ian.

On 2004-08-20 21:41:07 +1000, mapesdhs@yahoo.com (Ian Mapleson) said:

>> Of course MIPS development will be continued and MIPS CPUs will still be
>> alive in several years - in the embedded market, just not in an SGI ;-)
>
> You cannot possibly know that for sure. Jeez Benjamin, stop being so
> negative all the time.

You know, I've noticed that every time Benjamin starts whinging about
something (say, Octanes), it's always that week that he posts a "WTB:
Octane" message to comp.sys.sgi.marketplace.

What is it? Pump and dump? (or the opposite?) Make the machines seem
like crud on a stick, buy them cheap then sell them elsewhere?

I dunno, I might be wrong, but it just struck me as odd... :P

best always,

Dave @ ATMOS

--
Dafydd Williams
ATMOS Software Productions Pty Ltd
pipeline-at-atmos-dot-com-dot-au

Ian Mapleson wrote:

> For scalability, SGI MIPS/IRIX is way ahead of everyone, by an order
> of magnitude comapred to some vendors (single image, etc.)


Ya know, for a long time this was true ... but these days Irix
seems to scale UP but what about down ? The Tezro isn't exactly
an Indy. And what's with all the screwups in Irix lately ? I
used to be upset that they weren't releasing m-stream the way
they did for years. Maybe we were lucky and should just stay
at 6.5.20. Everything newer seems to have a LOT of issues.
Every time you turn around it's "oh, in 6.5.2x that's broken."
The newer, the more "issues." What the hell has happened to
quality control over there ? What good is "scalable" if it
doesn't work ? if SGI isn't going to have superior quality,
then why not just run Windows ?

Ian Mapleson wrote:
> "Benjamin Gawert" wrote:
>> MIPS and SPARC have no light against Itanium, POWER and x86. ...

> Can I have a 2048-CPU Itanium machine then? Opps, sorry, no such thing.

Yep. Its called Project Columbia. but yes, you do have to ask sgi...

> No problem with MIPS. Ask SGI, they'll do you won if you have the dosh.


--
Andy Nelson School of Mathematics
andy@maths.ed.ac.uk University of Edinburgh
http://maths.ed.ac.uk/~andy Edinburgh Scotland EH9 3JZ U. K.

Ian Mapleson wrote:

>> MIPS and SPARC have no light against Itanium, POWER and x86. ...
>
> Can I have a 2048-CPU Itanium machine then? Opps, sorry, no such
> thing.
>
> No problem with MIPS. Ask SGI, they'll do you won if you have the
> dosh.

And how many Itanium CPUs do You need to get the same performance like Your
2048 processor MIPS system? Less than half of that...

>> Of course MIPS development will be continued and MIPS CPUs will
>> still be alive in several years - in the embedded market, just not
>> in an SGI ;-)
>
> You cannot possibly know that for sure. Jeez Benjamin, stop being so
> negative all the time.

What's up? Afraid that I might be right?

Benjamin

Dafydd Williams wrote:

> You know, I've noticed that every time Benjamin starts whinging about
> something (say, Octanes), it's always that week that he posts a "WTB:
> Octane" message to comp.sys.sgi.marketplace.

And that should tell us what? That only good SGI christians are allowed to
search something for an old toy?

At least I brought up some arguments and facts, which can't be said about
everyone here...

Benjamin

hamei wrote:
> Ya know, for a long time this was true ... but these days Irix
> seems to scale UP but what about down ? The Tezro isn't exactly
> an Indy. ...

Tezro isn't a low-end system.


> ... And what's with all the screwups in Irix lately ? ...

Can't comment on that. I'm out of the loop somewhat on such things.


> ... if SGI isn't going to have superior quality,
> then why not just run Windows ?

That doesn't make any sense. Windows doesn't/can't scale. I call them
Microslop for good reason. Windows can't even run *one* cpu without making
it feel like one is wading through mud, no matter what the MHz.

Ian.

"Benjamin Gawert" wrote:
> And how many Itanium CPUs do You need to get the same performance like Your
> 2048 processor MIPS system? Less than half of that...

You clearly haven't a clue what performance in this context even means.
If you think performance = a CPU, then you'd bets go back to PC land
and stick with DOS.


> What's up? Afraid that I might be right?

No, especially not since it seems to me you're only posting this twaddle to
try and lower prices for your purchases.

Ian.

Ian Mapleson wrote:

> "Benjamin Gawert" wrote:
> > And how many Itanium CPUs do You need to get the same performance like Your
> > 2048 processor MIPS system? Less than half of that...
>
> You clearly haven't a clue what performance in this context even means.
> If you think performance = a CPU, then you'd bets go back to PC land
> and stick with DOS.
>
> > What's up? Afraid that I might be right?
>
> No, especially not since it seems to me you're only posting this twaddle to
> try and lower prices for your purchases.
>
> Ian.

this is all so bizzare

Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler writes:

>HP releases the last ever revision of the Alpha CPU:
>

>I guess it's officially down to MIPS, Power and Sparc against the likes of
>Itanic and x86 chips.

>I hope the rumors of continued MIPS development are true, or the CPU scene is
>going to start looking really really boring.

Anyone seen this:
http://www.linux-mag.com/2004-05/extreme_01.html

Seems to me like Mips/Irix 'is' on its way out.

"MIPS processors will undergo evolutionary enhancements, and we continue
providing on-going releases of IRIX. We have a sustaining engineering
strategy [for MIPS and IRIX] to protect the investments of our existing
customers"

Is this management speak for - Mips will evolve to extinction, and Irix
until such time as all the major customers have been migrated to Linux?

Is this not a sensible strategy going forward for SGI?

Cheers
barefoot

On 2004-08-22 15:32:38 +1000, barefoot said:

> Anyone seen this:
> http://www.linux-mag.com/2004-05/extreme_01.html
>
> Seems to me like Mips/Irix 'is' on its way out.
>
> "MIPS processors will undergo evolutionary enhancements, and we
> continue providing on-going releases of IRIX. We have a sustaining
> engineering strategy [for MIPS and IRIX] to protect the investments of
> our existing customers"
>
> Is this management speak for - Mips will evolve to extinction, and Irix
> until such time as all the major customers have been migrated to Linux?
>
> Is this not a sensible strategy going forward for SGI?

More from the same article. Finally, some official word. It's not
good news, but at least it's ~some~ news. Now people can plan ahead.

I expect to see Altix with graphics some time soon, almost certainly
clustered bricks of the new ATi chips they've been using.

Here's the excerpt that I'm referring to:

---
HOFFMAN: What about the SGI Origin, the IRIX operating system, and MIPS
processors? Will SGI continue offering these products?

PARRY: We'll continue to offer Origin, but in the very long term, our
architectural and revolutionary research and development will be
directed toward the Altix line. Of course the NUMAflex architecture is
the same for both the Origin and Altix systems. We're leveraging the
knowledge gained from the Origin 2000 and 3000, but switching to the
Itanium 2 processor -- which offers higher peak and application
performance than MIPS RISC -- and running Linux.

[Altix and Origin] are independent, in the sense that the Origin is
MIPS and IRIX only, while the Altix is Itanium 2 and Linux only.
However, much of the design was carried over [from the Origin to the
Altix]. On the software side, the years of development that went into
IRIX is being ported over as improvements to Linux. Under Linux, that
software is either being contributed to the community or, in a few
cases, being put out as new products.
---

best always,

Dave @ ATMOS

ps. A sad day, but I suppose it had to happen. Now we'd best pin our
hopes on the technologies we love in IRIX being ported to Altix.

--

Dafydd Williams
ATMOS Software Productions Pty Ltd
pipeline-at-atmos-dot-com-dot-au

barefoot wrote:

> Is this not a sensible strategy going forward for SGI?


Nope. It's the sound of a bunch of marketdroid ducks quacking.
Replace Irix, which WORKS (or did until recently) with Linux,
which sucks. Now THAT is a great plan for "going forward."

Good example of what happens to publicly-owned companies.
Stupid-ass stockborkers reading some crappy Ziff-Davis
publication decide the future of the company. Customers
have nothing to say about it .... ask cosmos. Very
discouraging :-(

hamei writes:

>barefoot wrote:

[....]
>Good example of what happens to publicly-owned companies.
>Stupid-ass stockborkers reading some crappy Ziff-Davis
>publication decide the future of the company. Customers
>have nothing to say about it .... ask cosmos. Very
>discouraging :-(

I'd say it's the other way round, they probably listened too much... look
at the different country's home page, here in the Aus backwater it's all
MIPS/Irix on the home page still, and I would guess that SGI wouldn't do
that unless they still sell lots of MIPS/Irix systems here.

Cheers
barefoot

mapesdhs@yahoo.com (Ian Mapleson) writes:

> "Benjamin Gawert" wrote:
> > MIPS and SPARC have no light against Itanium, POWER and x86. ...
>
> Can I have a 2048-CPU Itanium machine then? Opps, sorry, no such thing.
>
> No problem with MIPS. Ask SGI, they'll do you won if you have the dosh.
>
> For scalability, SGI MIPS/IRIX is way ahead of everyone, by an order
> of magnitude comapred to some vendors (single image, etc.)

There's no way the scalability is tied to the MIPS chip (compared with
the Itanium). Given that they share the same system architecture the
scaling is purely a OS issue. Yes, power consumption is an issue if
you add space constraints but otherwise I'm pretty sure an Altix
scales just as well as an O3k hardware-wise.

*p

mapesdhs@yahoo.com (Ian Mapleson) writes:

> "Benjamin Gawert" wrote:
> > And how many Itanium CPUs do You need to get the same performance like Your
> > 2048 processor MIPS system? Less than half of that...
>
> You clearly haven't a clue what performance in this context even means.

Do you know of an application where a MIPS, any MIPS, beats an Itanium2
on single-CPU performance?

*p

Le Sun, 22 Aug 2004 15:57:32 +1000, Dafydd Williams a écrit*:

>
> I expect to see Altix with graphics some time soon, almost certainly
> clustered bricks of the new ATi chips they've been using.

I've seen these a few months ago. Aren't they already available? (Altix
350 with graphics).

--
Ne pas savoir de quoi on parle est un avantage dont il ne faut pas
abuser.
R.Debray

barefoot wrote:

> I'd say it's the other way round, they probably listened too much... look
> at the different country's home page, here in the Aus backwater it's all
> MIPS/Irix on the home page still, and I would guess that SGI wouldn't do
> that unless they still sell lots of MIPS/Irix systems here.


I think you're agreeing with me :-)

In Ozz they don't have to try to please a bunch of ignerant
Wall-Streeters. Hence, the emphasis on the true strengths of
SGI ... Who the hell CARES about Altix ? It's a stinking Linux
box. If you had purchasing responsibility for a large outfit,
would you choose going-down-the-tubes SGI who can't even afford
a decent Internet connection these days, or IBM for your Linux
implementation ? Or HP ? And here we are talking about 1024
processors when Linux can't even deal properly with TWO !!
If SGI HAS made Linux work well in smp mode, then there's
something very very fishy going on in light of the GPL ...

What do they have left to sell ? Buildings are gone. Alias
is gone. Engineering is gone. Irix looks to be on its way
out. Quality has taken a hike. Doesn't seem real likely
that all the hot air around Linux is gonna do the job ...
looks like the Defense Dep't may have to do a rescue
operation one of these days ...

Sad, that's what it is.