Xbox 2 is an IBM & SGI supercomputer - SGI

This is a discussion on Xbox 2 is an IBM & SGI supercomputer - SGI ; this was good read, even if somewhat unprofessional. The Inquirer made an article out of some letter they recieved about Xbox 2. basicly what it's saying is, Xbox 2 will be sort of like an IBM supercomputer, with SGI-based supercomputer ...

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  1. Xbox 2 is an IBM & SGI supercomputer

    this was good read, even if somewhat unprofessional. The Inquirer made
    an article out of some letter they recieved about Xbox 2. basicly what
    it's saying is, Xbox 2 will be sort of like an IBM supercomputer, with
    SGI-based supercomputer / visualization system graphics (from ATI)

    some choice parts from the article:

    quote:

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    --

    Now let's put the pieces all together. Microsoft has chosen IBM, a long
    time maker of mainframes and supercomputers to manufacture the XBOX 2's
    CPU...a variant of the Power4 CPU known as the G5. It is high performance
    and highly efficient, and thus much cooler than any X-86 chip which allows a
    multi-CPU design to be put into a much smaller form factor than a comparable
    multi X-86 design. The G5 has embedded in it a Vector Math unit which
    processes multimedia instructions much like Intel's SSE instructions.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    --






    quote:
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    --
    The GPU will also employ technology culled from the world of mainframes
    and supercomputers such as dynamic logic for much higher performance and
    vector math processing like the G5's Altivec multimedia units. Plus the
    Fast14 process allows for this much higher performance of dynamic logic
    without the once associated heat buildup. Once again, an important design
    criteria when building a small form factor console. Helping to make the new
    ATI Fast14 GPU that much cooler will be the Black Diamond low-K dielectric
    insulating process that ATI and its foundry partner TSMC uses.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    --






    quote:
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    --
    Without a doubt the Xbox 2 will be the world's first consumer
    supercomputer ever. Everything about it reeks of supercomputer....Multiple
    Power4/G5 RISC CPU's processing in parallel and employing vector math
    processing. Those CPU's designed by supercomputer manufacturer IBM. Graphics
    processor employing dynamic logic and vector math processing from the world
    of supercomputers, manufactured by ATI which is now primarily run by ex-SGI
    engineers, again a manufacturer of supercomputers. Can't wait until someone
    hacks into it and installs 64 bit Linux. Can you imagine a Beowulf Cluster
    built of multiple Xbox 2s ?!!!
    __________________________________________________ ___________


    http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=14050


    my take on this is:

    In terms of floating point performance and graphics muscle, the Xbox 2
    should outdo a 16-pipe SGI InfiniteReality2 or IR3 machine from the late
    1990s.

    Even Silicon Graphics themselves have turned to ATI for the highend
    Onyx4 UltimateVision systems, which will employ upto -32- ATI R3XX VPU
    cores.

    I am guessing Xbox 2 should have at least 5-10 times the graphics muscle
    of a R300 / Radeon 9700. or perhaps 3-4 times that of the upcoming R420.













  2. Re: Xbox 2 is an IBM & SGI supercomputer


    "mosys" wrote in message
    news:SsPVb.4777$PY.3816@newssvr26.news.prodigy.com ...
    > this was good read, even if somewhat unprofessional.
    >
    > I am guessing Xbox 2 should have at least 5-10 times the graphics muscle
    > of a R300 / Radeon 9700. or perhaps 3-4 times that of the upcoming R420.
    >
    >
    > Yes But can it make you a cup of coffee on those long nights when playing

    Midtown Madness 3 Live against the best and the worst.

    I don't think so

    Jud
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >




  3. Re: Xbox 2 is an IBM & SGI supercomputer

    On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 17:30:26 GMT, "mosys"
    wrote:

    > this was good read, even if somewhat unprofessional. The Inquirer made
    >an article out of some letter they recieved about Xbox 2. basicly what
    >it's saying is, Xbox 2 will be sort of like an IBM supercomputer, with
    >SGI-based supercomputer / visualization system graphics (from ATI)


    The hype surounding the PS2 said that would be a "supercomputer". That
    was as much BS as this is.
    --
    Andrew. To email unscramble nrc@gurjevgrzrboivbhf.pbz & remove spamtrap.
    Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
    please don't top post. Trim messages to quote only relevent text.
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  4. Re: Xbox 2 is an IBM & SGI supercomputer

    "mosys" wrote in message
    news:SsPVb.4777$PY.3816@newssvr26.news.prodigy.com ...
    > this was good read, even if somewhat unprofessional. The Inquirer made
    > an article out of some letter they recieved about Xbox 2. basicly what
    > it's saying is, Xbox 2 will be sort of like an IBM supercomputer, with
    > SGI-based supercomputer / visualization system graphics (from ATI)


    Such a shame it will boil down to a bunch of pretty games with little
    substance and no replay value...

    --
    Here lies the late Martin Francis
    He couldn't tell you the technical merits of Leitz and Zeiss
    But he did take some photographs once.



  5. Re: Xbox 2 is an IBM & SGI supercomputer

    So, we are supposed to believe Microsofts hype, but not Sonys? We heard it
    all before. We won't fall for it again. I couldn't care less how powerful a
    console is. Okay, I DO care, but only to a certain extent. What good is
    perfect hardware if there are noone to utilize it and turn it into great
    games? I'm hoping the Xbox 2 will have good games, and have a few times
    better power than the Xbox (if it didn't, what's the use of upgrading to an
    Xbox 2?).

    The hardware companies only hype their machines with hightech terms and
    specs. I'm waiting to see the games, THEN and only then can I be impressed
    (if there's something to be impressed by).

    Tommy



  6. Re: Xbox 2 is an IBM & SGI supercomputer

    Actually, every performance enhancing feature of modern processors have
    evolved from supercomputer CPU design in one way or another. That's why I
    laughed at that Inquirer story when I read it early this morning.
    Besides, if I were seller of the future Xbox 2 i would be more worried about
    the rumour that it has no backwards compatibility with the first Xbox. I
    suppose microsoft think there aren't enough good games so why bother?




  7. Re: Xbox 2 is an IBM & SGI supercomputer

    Andrew wrote in message news:...
    > On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 17:30:26 GMT, "mosys"
    > wrote:
    >
    > > this was good read, even if somewhat unprofessional. The Inquirer made
    > >an article out of some letter they recieved about Xbox 2. basicly what
    > >it's saying is, Xbox 2 will be sort of like an IBM supercomputer, with
    > >SGI-based supercomputer / visualization system graphics (from ATI)

    >
    > The hype surounding the PS2 said that would be a "supercomputer". That
    > was as much BS as this is.


    NO technically it was a super computer then as far as the law was
    concerned and that could've caused problems for Sony had said
    regulations not been updated.

  8. Re: Xbox 2 is an IBM & SGI supercomputer

    On 10 Feb 2004 03:00:40 -0800, ps2isnumber1@hotmail.com (Phil) wrote:

    >NO technically it was a super computer then as far as the law was
    >concerned and that could've caused problems for Sony had said
    >regulations not been updated.


    What is the definition of supercomputer then? It was less powerful
    than my PC was when it was released, and my PC isn't within 1% of a
    real supercomputers processing power.
    --
    Andrew. To email unscramble nrc@gurjevgrzrboivbhf.pbz & remove spamtrap.
    Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
    please don't top post. Trim messages to quote only relevent text.
    Check groups.google.com before asking a question.

  9. Re: Xbox 2 is an IBM & SGI supercomputer


    "Phil" wrote in message
    news:2e789946.0402100300.24573046@posting.google.c om...
    > Andrew wrote in message

    news:...
    > > On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 17:30:26 GMT, "mosys"
    > > wrote:
    > > The hype surounding the PS2 said that would be a "supercomputer". That
    > > was as much BS as this is.

    >
    > NO technically it was a super computer then as far as the law was
    > concerned and that could've caused problems for Sony had said
    > regulations not been updated.


    Get Real. If that was the case then every NVidia and ATI graphics card
    available at the time (2000) would have been a supercomputer. You are
    propagating more of the Sony propaganda machine bs. There are SOOOOO many
    reasons why a single PS2 game console would not be considered one, common
    sense not the least thereof.

    There has been an attempt (at NCSA at that) to create what would qualify a
    supercomputer from PS2 shells, but it takes 70 (yes, 70) consoles to
    qualify. For the record, it takes less PCs to reach the same threshold.
    The major reason the PS2 was used is because of the Linux kit (which
    thankfully allows access to the vector units) and cheap hardware, NOT
    because of extremely powerful hardware.

    There are quite a few good resources on the web about super computing, not
    the worse of which is from the projects here at the University of Tennessee
    and Oak Ridge National Laboratories - but then you are probably not familar
    with BLAS or LAPACK, are you? At least check out the LINPACK tests on
    common computing hardware to become familiar with how things really rank
    from a simplistic linear equation standpoint. Check out this PDF if the
    topic of performance interests you WITHOUT the hype:

    http://www.netlib.org/benchmark/performance.pdf





  10. Re: Xbox 2 is an IBM & SGI supercomputer

    I think we all know what any new console is going to be like - crap
    apart from one or two good games, which typically outshine and outlast
    almost everything for at least the first year. It takes so long to
    manufacture a really good game, as the power and complexity increases,
    (depending also on the quality of the API) that by the time the really
    cool stuff appears, everyone is talking about the next console. And
    so the cycle continues...

    As for the graphics, they will appear pants in a few years compared to
    what's coming, and the Supercomputers of the day will be far superior
    by the time the technology trickles down to the console market for
    199.99.

    Me, I'll wait until things have settled before I jump.

  11. Re: Xbox 2 is an IBM & SGI supercomputer

    But Like I asked...

    Can it make you a cup of coffee on those long nights when playing
    Midtown Madness 3 Live against the best and the worst.

    I don't think so

    Jud



  12. Re: Xbox 2 is an IBM & SGI supercomputer

    On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, xTenn wrote:

    > "Phil" wrote in message
    > news:2e789946.0402100300.24573046@posting.google.c om...
    > > Andrew wrote in message

    > news:...
    > > > On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 17:30:26 GMT, "mosys"
    > > > wrote:
    > > > The hype surounding the PS2 said that would be a "supercomputer". That
    > > > was as much BS as this is.

    > >
    > > NO technically it was a super computer then as far as the law was
    > > concerned and that could've caused problems for Sony had said
    > > regulations not been updated.

    >
    > Get Real. If that was the case then every NVidia and ATI graphics card
    > available at the time (2000) would have been a supercomputer. You are
    > propagating more of the Sony propaganda machine bs. There are SOOOOO many
    > reasons why a single PS2 game console would not be considered one, common
    > sense not the least thereof.


    The vector units in the PS2 are fully programable, though lack in
    performance compared to modern video cards. However, modern video cards
    are not as programable as the vector units on a PS2. This puts the vector
    units on the PS2 as a general purpose CPU side, thus falling under
    regulations of the time.

    There is a library that accesses video card hardware for general purpose
    use. This is a recent developement and it requires Radeon 9500 class or
    GeforceFX class hardware to be usefull. The ATI and nVidia cards around
    2000 lacked the necessary programability.

    http://graphics.stanford.edu/projects/brookgpu

    > There has been an attempt (at NCSA at that) to create what would qualify a
    > supercomputer from PS2 shells, but it takes 70 (yes, 70) consoles to
    > qualify. For the record, it takes less PCs to reach the same threshold.
    > The major reason the PS2 was used is because of the Linux kit (which
    > thankfully allows access to the vector units) and cheap hardware, NOT
    > because of extremely powerful hardware.


    The reason for the choice of PS2's was that its vector units were well
    suited for processing task and the hardware was cheap. A PS2 by itself
    isn't that powerful but when clustered, they can be an expense yet useful
    tool. This holds true to most systems that are used as the basis for
    large clusters.

    > There are quite a few good resources on the web about super computing, not
    > the worse of which is from the projects here at the University of Tennessee
    > and Oak Ridge National Laboratories - but then you are probably not familar
    > with BLAS or LAPACK, are you? At least check out the LINPACK tests on
    > common computing hardware to become familiar with how things really rank
    > from a simplistic linear equation standpoint. Check out this PDF if the
    > topic of performance interests you WITHOUT the hype:
    >
    > http://www.netlib.org/benchmark/performance.pdf


    The whole hype of the PS2 being a super computer stems from the US rather
    ancient definition. Apple had a few ads proclaiming the same thing
    when their G4 systems first appeared. Needless to say, US regulations
    have since been updated. If you want to see what real super computers
    were doing back in 2000, check out the link below.

    http://www.top500.org


  13. Re: Xbox 2 is an IBM & SGI supercomputer

    On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, Andrew wrote:

    > On 10 Feb 2004 03:00:40 -0800, ps2isnumber1@hotmail.com (Phil) wrote:
    >
    > >NO technically it was a super computer then as far as the law was
    > >concerned and that could've caused problems for Sony had said
    > >regulations not been updated.

    >
    > What is the definition of supercomputer then? It was less powerful
    > than my PC was when it was released, and my PC isn't within 1% of a
    > real supercomputers processing power.


    For video games, yes, the PS2 was less powerful than a high end PC of its
    time. However, its the programable vector units on the PS2 that gets
    added to its overall processing power that allowed it to become a 'super
    computer'. PC video cards of that era were not programable enough to
    factored into overall computing power. A system only has to breach 1
    GFLOP of power to claim the title of super computer in 2000.


  14. Re: Xbox 2 is an IBM & SGI supercomputer

    Phil wrote:

    > NO technically it was a super computer then as far as the law was
    > concerned and that could've caused problems for Sony had said
    > regulations not been updated.


    Good joke! What was the GFLOPS/s rate of game consoles like PS2, Xbox and
    Xbox2?

    I just bought two smaller and older Supercomputers (one 32-CPU HP V2500 and
    one 32-CPU HP V2500) which do 56,23GFLOPS/s and 72,64GFLOPS/s with their
    current configuration. I yet have to see any Game console coming even close
    to these numbers.

    And from what I know the PS2-Cluster wasn't made of PS2's because they are
    so powerful but because of the low price of the Linux version of the PS2. It
    even wasn't meant to be a production unit but just an experimental system.

    Benjamin


  15. Re: Xbox 2 is an IBM & SGI supercomputer


    "kevin getting" wrote in message
    news:Pine.A41.4.44.0402101212130.154536-100000@accsp2.wuacc.edu...
    > On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, xTenn wrote:
    >
    >



    You took everything I said and just restated it - are you a consultant?




  16. Re: Xbox 2 is an IBM & SGI supercomputer

    "Benjamin Gawert" wrote in message news:...
    > Phil wrote:
    >
    > > NO technically it was a super computer then as far as the law was
    > > concerned and that could've caused problems for Sony had said
    > > regulations not been updated.

    >
    > Good joke! What was the GFLOPS/s rate of game consoles like PS2, Xbox and
    > Xbox2?
    >
    > I just bought two smaller and older Supercomputers (one 32-CPU HP V2500 and
    > one 32-CPU HP V2500) which do 56,23GFLOPS/s and 72,64GFLOPS/s with their
    > current configuration. I yet have to see any Game console coming even close
    > to these numbers.
    >
    > And from what I know the PS2-Cluster wasn't made of PS2's because they are
    > so powerful but because of the low price of the Linux version of the PS2. It
    > even wasn't meant to be a production unit but just an experimental system.
    >
    > Benjamin


    Perhaps it had more to do w/ linking multiple PS2s together than
    anything and also as I recall said import/export regulation was
    extremely outdated at the time.

  17. Re: Xbox 2 is an IBM & SGI supercomputer

    Phil wrote:

    > Perhaps it had more to do w/ linking multiple PS2s together than
    > anything and also as I recall said import/export regulation was
    > extremely outdated at the time.


    These export regulations were (and still are) stupid at best. A single PS2
    never qualified as a supercomputer. Limiting the export of a cluster of slow
    computers which consists of multiple slow computers is idiotic since You can
    build a cluster of almost everything.

    But since the PS2 was and still is produced in Asia all this doesn't matter.

    Benjamin


  18. Re: Xbox 2 is an IBM & SGI supercomputer


    > Good joke! What was the GFLOPS/s rate of game consoles like PS2, Xbox and
    > Xbox2?


    Well, you should learn how to read:

    "The Xbox has 80 Gigaflops of computing power. That's equivalent to the
    power found in a Cray C94 supercomputer."

    http://www.nvidia.com/page/console.html

    Any other questions?




  19. Re: Xbox 2 is an IBM & SGI supercomputer

    On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 12:36:59 +0200, "MS"
    wrote:

    >"The Xbox has 80 Gigaflops of computing power. That's equivalent to the
    >power found in a Cray C94 supercomputer."
    >
    >http://www.nvidia.com/page/console.html
    >
    >Any other questions?


    Why do companies and research establishments spend millions on *real*
    supercomputers when they could buy an XBox for $200? In fact, they
    could get a high end PC, which is a lot more powerful than the XBox
    hardware, and by your rationale that would be the most powerful
    computer in the world.
    --
    Andrew. To email unscramble nrc@gurjevgrzrboivbhf.pbz & remove spamtrap.
    Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
    please don't top post. Trim messages to quote only relevent text.
    Check groups.google.com before asking a question.

  20. Re: Xbox 2 is an IBM & SGI supercomputer

    "MS" writes:

    > > Good joke! What was the GFLOPS/s rate of game consoles like PS2, Xbox and
    > > Xbox2?

    >
    > Well, you should learn how to read:
    >
    > "The Xbox has 80 Gigaflops of computing power. That's equivalent to the
    > power found in a Cray C94 supercomputer."


    It's bull****, the C94 had a peak of 4GFLOPS (double precision, which
    the Xbox certainly can't match). The C94 does 35GB/s on STREAM TRIAD,
    I'd be surprised if the Xbox can do 3GB/s. And the C94 is from
    1991...

    *p

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