Re: assembly programming on mips (doc pointers req) - SGI

This is a discussion on Re: assembly programming on mips (doc pointers req) - SGI ; The following header lines retained to effect attribution: >Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 09:27:12 +0200 >From: Per Ekman >Subject: Re: assembly programming on mips (doc pointers req) >To: info-iris-misc@ARL.ARMY.MIL >"Randolph J. Herber" writes: >> Since about the 1970's, compilers operating ...

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Thread: Re: assembly programming on mips (doc pointers req)

  1. Re: assembly programming on mips (doc pointers req)

    The following header lines retained to effect attribution:
    >Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 09:27:12 +0200
    >From: Per Ekman
    >Subject: Re: assembly programming on mips (doc pointers req)
    >To: info-iris-misc@ARL.ARMY.MIL


    >"Randolph J. Herber" writes:


    >> Since about the 1970's, compilers operating at extreme optimization
    >> almost always generate better code than almost all programmers can
    >> write because computers can track more details more accurately than
    >> humans. IBM did extensive studies on the topic. I imagine that
    >> you could locate some of the papers using a web search. The primary
    >> use of assembly language today is low frequency of coding operations which
    >> are machine specific such as receiving machine interrupts and packaging
    >> the interrupts as kernel structures for further processing.


    >However, having at least rudimentary knowledge about the assembly on
    >the platform of your choice can be pretty useful, particularly
    >when debugging. Even more so when debugging binaries compiled at
    >extreme levels of optimization.


    >*p


    I did not and I do not argue about the usefulness of understanding how
    your system functions and that extends beyond just understanding the
    assembly language of the machine or the code generated by the compiler.
    Your examples of areas of applicability are excellent.

    I suggest, again, that understanding the various levels of caching of
    data, including instructions, and control data, such as virtual memory
    maps and branch predictions and of the effects of data transport, such
    as external data controllers, channels, direct memory access, device
    controllers, devices, device caches, non-uniform memory access, network
    attached devices, etc.s are also useful.

    I have worked with computers for almost four decades. I have used them,
    programmed them, operated them, designed and built them from the logic
    gate level, taught classes on their languages at the masters level and
    operating internals of System V UNIX professionally (including to a
    telephone company computer center staff). I have seen the almost
    complete disappearance of assembly language coding except in the areas
    that I indicated above.

    Randolph J. Herber, herber@fnal.gov, +1 630 840 2966, CD/CDFTF PK-149F,
    Mail Stop 318, Fermilab, Kirk & Pine Rds., PO Box 500, Batavia, IL 60510-0500,
    USA. (Speaking for myself and not for US, US DOE, FNAL nor URA.) (Product,
    trade, or service marks herein belong to their respective owners.)

  2. Re: assembly programming on mips (doc pointers req)

    > I have worked with computers for almost four decades. I have used them,
    > programmed them, operated them, designed and built them from the logic
    > gate level, taught classes on their languages at the masters level and
    > operating internals of System V UNIX professionally (including to a
    > telephone company computer center staff). I have seen the almost
    > complete disappearance of assembly language coding except in the areas
    > that I indicated above.


    you seem to leave out the other use for ASM, i.e. cracking/hacking binaries


  3. Re: assembly programming on mips (doc pointers req)


    Randolph J. Herber wrote:

    >>>The primary
    >>>use of assembly language today is low frequency of coding operations which
    >>>are machine specific such as receiving machine interrupts and packaging
    >>>the interrupts as kernel structures for further processing.

    >
    >


    I disagree. I work in the embedded software field where initially,
    there is no environment to run C code. I have had to write machine init
    code in MIPS assembly to bring hardware up and prove the basic operation.

    I agree if you were implying that assembly is largely unused on
    computers or in high-level environments.

    btw, to the original poster of this thread, Spim is a really good
    program for learning and trying MIPS assembly.


  4. Re: assembly programming on mips (doc pointers req)

    In article ,
    Alan Horrocks wrote:

    : Randolph J. Herber wrote:
    :
    : >>>The primary
    : >>>use of assembly language today is low frequency of coding operations which
    : >>>are machine specific such as receiving machine interrupts and packaging
    : >>>the interrupts as kernel structures for further processing.
    : >
    : >
    :
    : I disagree. I work in the embedded software field where initially,
    : there is no environment to run C code. I have had to write machine init
    : code in MIPS assembly to bring hardware up and prove the basic operation.

    I think an IPL qualifies as "coding operations which are machine specific".

    If you're coding a whole OS in assembly for your embedded systems, tho, you need
    help:


    Cheers - Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler

    --
    Tony 'Nicoya' Mantler -- Master of Code-fu -- nicoya@ubb.ca
    -- http://nicoya.feline.pp.se/ -- http://www.ubb.ca/ --

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